The Christ of God

Participant

Thanks brother Adam Pastor, how about Mandy's repeated posts on Jesus being the literal and biological son of God ?

August 9, 2008 at 11:49 am#100794

Adam Pastor

Participant

I do indeed believe that Jesus is the literal Son of GOD who came into existence by the spirit and power of GOD as Gabriel described:
(Luke 1:35) And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also [for that reason, Gk. dio kai] that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

I believe when Jesus was born he was indeed fully human.
As fully human as Adam was when he came into existence.

I believe Jesus is literally, biologically related to Mary and everyone else listed in his genealogy.
I have no reason to question or speculate this.
The genealogies are there for a reason!

So Jesus is Son of man, Son of David, Mary's Son.
(And Luke's & Matthew's Genealogies are true.)
And of course, Jesus is also Son of GOD.

Jesus was no hybrid, no “combination” (anymore than Adam was!)

He is GOD's literal human Son conceived/begotten by the power of the Living GOD,
(without any “male agent” whatsoever involved in the conception.)

So GOD is truly his Father.

Presently, I believe Jesus is a glorified, immortalized human being.
The first of many. [Rom 8.29]

Anything else. I don't speculate.
GOD begat a Son. That Son is the man Christ Jesus.
I believe it, just as Luke & Matthew said it.
And John does not contradict their record either.

That is my simple belief, IMHO.

God Bless.

August 9, 2008 at 3:58 pm#100809

Participant

Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 09 2008,20:18)

Hi Mandy,
Thanks for that understanding about me. That is the reason why I like you very much, you don't criticise any one but certainly address them. God creates things like he did in the beginning. He can create a sperm or DNA by His Holy Spirit but He can not possess some thing which is against His nature that is Spirit as I repeatedly quote here. He has certainly passed on His nature that is Spirit to Jesus through the power of Holy Spirit when Mary conceived Jesus. I don't agree with your logic of saying God possesses some mortal sperm or DNA to pass on to Mary. If God can create woman from Man in the beginning why not the same God can not create man from woman alone ? I don't see any mysticism here I see Jesus is the man born like you and me but had the fullness of God's Spirit in him which qualifies him to be called as the Son of God but not because he is having God's DNA in him. God is Spirit in nature no material substance like humans.

Thanks and love to you
Adam

Adam…….I agree with you also in this post, Jesus was no superhuman man he was 100% man, because God created His DNA would have nothing to to with His nature, but the Holy Spirit He received into him would, as to exactly when this took place i don't know, but it sounds like it took place at the Gordan when He was baptized by John, because a voice came from heaven saying “THIS DAY” I have begotten you”. When Jesus said the Father was in him, he meant Spiritually, not Physically, as God can co-habit with anyone He choses to He conceder's us temples. Jesus plainly said the Flesh profits Nothing, so his flesh is not the important thing nor did it give him any special advantage and does not qualify a person as divine. In fact to think it does is against scripture in many places.

Jesus was simply a man with no human advantages He is even not much to look at according to scripture, and i believe was kind of sickly, be cause like he said “you would say unto me Physician heal they self”, and also he born our sickness and infirmity's in his body. I think He had a pretty rough go physically speaking.

Love and peace to you and yours……….gene

August 9, 2008 at 4:02 pm#100810

Lightenup

Participant

Hi all,
It is written that the Son of God is the author and perfector of faith. The author of faith, as I understand it is the originator of faith, the first to express such a thing. He is not merely the perfector of faith but the author as well, the first to express it.

Heb 12:2
fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Heb 11:1-5
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 2 For by it the men of old gained approval.

We see in this next verse that Abel demonstrated faith with his sacrifice to God, yet the Son of God is credited as being the author of faith, not Abel. That would put the Son of God as exhibiting faith before Abel. A plan cannot exhibit faith but a living being can. I think that the first exhibition of faith was demonstrated by the Son of God following His Father's direction in the act of creation, IMO, He is poetically spoken of as the Father's “hand”.

3 By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible. 4 By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks.
NASU

God bless,
LU

August 9, 2008 at 4:07 pm#100813

Participant

LU…..Where does it say Jesus is the Author of Faith, Abraham had Faith and Jesus wasn't even born yet, as well as David and many others.

peace……….gene

August 9, 2008 at 4:15 pm#100814

Not3in1

Participant

Adam Pastor,

So good to hear from you! I know that your beliefs line up nicely with the Biblical Unitarians, however my strays in the conception of Jesus area.

Please tell me, do you beleive that Jesus was truly conceived of God's holy Spirit and Mary? It seems that most want to believe that Jesus is the son of Man and the Son of God…..but they are not giving God his due credit. Only Mary and her line of geneology is counted. Why?

Thanks,
Mandy

August 9, 2008 at 4:18 pm#100815

Not3in1

Participant

Quote (Adam Pastor @ Aug. 09 2008,21:54)

Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 09 2008,09:18)

If God can create woman from Man in the beginning why not the same God can not create man from woman alone ?

Amen! Adam. I totally agree.
No mysticism needed!!

Is the process of simply conception “mysticism”? Why?

Many are offended that God could father his own Son. I don't understand why?

Mandy

August 9, 2008 at 4:36 pm#100817

Lightenup

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 09 2008,11:58)

Hi Gene,
I believe that the phrase you quoted “Physician, heal yourself!” meant, in context, that the people wanted Jesus to heal those in His own hometown even more so than those outside of His hometown. I don't believe that He was speaking of any physical affirmaties that He had.

Luke 4:22-28
23 And He said to them, “No doubt you will quote this proverb to Me, 'Physician, heal yourself! Whatever we heard was done at Capernaum, do here in your hometown as well.'” 24 And He said, “Truly I say to you, no prophet is welcome in his hometown. 25 “But I say to you in truth, there were many widows in Israel in the days of Elijah, when the sky was shut up for three years and six months, when a great famine came over all the land; 26 and yet Elijah was sent to none of them, but only to Zarephath, in the land of Sidon, to a woman who was a widow. 27 “And there were many lepers in Israel in the time of Elisha the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, but only Naaman the Syrian.”
NASU

In this following Isaiah passage He does sound pretty messed up looking but you have to remember that He had been beaten to a pulp, anybody would look pretty weak after several scourgings. We need to remember that He willingly took the scourgings, the chastenings, and the piercing for OUR benefit. His willingness showed immeasurable strength and love. I don't believe that Jesus was meant to look like a movie star so as not to become popular because of His outward appearance but I don't believe He was ugly in appearance either. I think that He would be considered average looking because His looks were not of any focus except when He was beaten.

Isa 53:3-5
And like one from whom men hide their face
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.

4 Surely our griefs He Himself bore,
And our sorrows He carried;
Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten of God, and afflicted.
5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions,
He was crushed for our iniquities;
The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him,
And by His scourging we are healed.
NASU

Jesus was not “sickly” as you say Gene. He had to be strong physically as well as spiritually to be able to survive 40 days of fasting in a desert without giving into temptation. Also, He had to be strong to walk from one town to another and to live His lifestyle without the comforts of home.

This is sad to see you and others try to convince us how weak Christ was. He was stronger than any of us. Maybe he couldn't bench press as much as the champion muscle builder but He certainly had incredible tolerance and endurance, perseverance and physical strength. He was very strong! He even bore YOUR weakness and you dare to spout about how weak he was. I believe you would be better served focusing on His strength and honoring Him.

August 9, 2008 at 4:47 pm#100818

Lightenup

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 09 2008,12:07)

LU…..Where does it say Jesus is the Author of Faith, Abraham had Faith and Jesus wasn't even born yet, as well as David and many others.

peace……….gene

Gene,
If it did say He was the author of faith would you then believe. I doubt it. Read my post again and you will find where it says that He is the “author of faith.”

Okay, I will copy it for you since you missed it the first time in that post, you might miss it again. Here it is:

Heb 12:2
fixing our eyes on Jesus, the AUTHOR AND PERFECTOR of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

By the way the Son of God did exist before Abraham was born.

John 8:58-59
58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”
NASU
LU

August 9, 2008 at 6:01 pm#100823

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 10 2008,03:58)

Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 09 2008,20:18)

Thanks and love to you
Adam

Love and peace to you and yours……….gene

Hi GB,
We follow Jesus into his rebirth of the Spirit of God.

No mention in scripture of God passing on His nature to Jesus at conception. That nature, which is of the fruit of the Spirit shown in Gal 5, was revealed in him only after he was baptised in that Spirit at the Jordan,

No voice was heard saying what you quote at the Jordan, but such is written in Ps 2.

August 9, 2008 at 6:21 pm#100828

Adam Pastor

Participant

Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 09 2008,17:18)

Quote (Adam Pastor @ Aug. 09 2008,21:54)

Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 09 2008,09:18)

If God can create woman from Man in the beginning why not the same God can not create man from woman alone ?

Amen! Adam. I totally agree.
No mysticism needed!!

Is the process of simply conception “mysticism”? Why?

Many are offended that God could father his own Son. I don't understand why?

Mandy

It maybe because of the way you're describing it.
It has paganistic overtones.

Greek/Roman/Egyptian Pagans & Polytheists have for centuries been teaching that their gods “fathered” children with mortal women via the use of “male agents”.

However Luke & Matthew don't even come close to describing anything similar;
Gabriel explained to Mary that she would miraculously conceive a son! And because the conception/begetting is miraculous, that is, no “male agent” has touched her; the child will be call “the Son of GOD”.

Personally, I don't believe that there was any “miraculous insemination” or such like.

The same GOD that made the first sinless couple;
i.e. made Adam from dust & Eve from Adam's rib;
is more than capable of making a new, sinless man from Mary's egg;
Almighty GOD, Creator of Heaven and earth,
is more than capable of making a “male” from Mary's XX chromosomes!
Genetically impossible? Yes, I guess so.
That is why Christ's conception is miraculous in more ways than one!! It truly was a miracle.
No “male agent” involved!

August 9, 2008 at 8:09 pm#100833

Participant

Hi AP,
Mary of course is from the universally sinful human stock.
So Jesus had to overcome sin in the flesh to show us the way and death set him free.
We too at death put off the sinful flesh and are given a new body like to the heavenly son of God.
God does not judge infants or children for sin and He was a true father to Jesus guiding him to be perfect.

Romans 8:3
For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,

Romans 7:14
For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.

Hebrews 2:14
Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,

1 Peter 4:1
Therefore, since Christ has suffered in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same purpose, because he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin,

August 10, 2008 at 2:16 am#100883

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 10 2008,04:47)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 09 2008,12:07)

LU…..Where does it say Jesus is the Author of Faith, Abraham had Faith and Jesus wasn't even born yet, as well as David and many others.

peace……….gene

Gene,
If it did say He was the author of faith would you then believe. I doubt it. Read my post again and you will find where it says that He is the “author of faith.”

Okay, I will copy it for you since you missed it the first time in that post, you might miss it again. Here it is:

Heb 12:2
fixing our eyes on Jesus, the AUTHOR AND PERFECTOR of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

By the way the Son of God did exist before Abraham was born.

John 8:58-59
58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”
NASU
LU

LU…Jesus could be very well be the author and perfecter of our faith, but he is not the one who gave the Faith, that is God the Father who gives Faith, Just like it say For God has given us all a measure of Faith. Your making Jesus the creator of Faith when in fact it is GOD Himself who gives Faith, in this you are robbing God of His Glory something Jesus never did, The scripture you quoted was to show us that, that is the Goal of our existence is to have the same Faith as Jesus has, not that He himself is the originator of our Faith, as you are trying to makes it out to be. Anyone who does not see Jesus exactly as we, are does not see Him. God didn't take a God and perfect Him, He took an ordinary Human being and Perfected Him. For He learned obedience by the things He SUFFERED and Having LEARNED it, that means He didn't have it prior to His life one earth. You making Jesus the object of you worship at the expense of the Father who was the one really doing the work, Jesus said I of myself can do nothing it is The Father that dwells in me, He doth the works. Jesus also was nothing to be desirous of in appearance , He bore (carried our infirmities in his body) and they were not talking about the town when they said Physician heal thyself either in my opinion. You trying to make him into a superhuman being is wrong He was at best only average not some big weightlifter as you presume. Remember the sum of God's Word is truth.

August 10, 2008 at 2:28 am#100884

Participant

Lu….If you care to look up the scripture in Heb 12:2 you quoted your will find the word (OUR) was added and is not in the original at all. Jesus is indeed the author and finisher of Faith, and we will also do what his example was. He is what we must become to please God the Father like He did, No difference from him.

August 10, 2008 at 3:17 am#100895

Participant

Hi,
Heb12

Heb 12:2
fixing our eyes on Jesus, the AUTHOR[747] AND PERFECTOR of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Number 747
Transliteration:
archegos {ar-khay-gos'}
Word Origin:
from 746 and 71
TDNT:
1:487,81
Part of Speech:
adjective
Usage in the KJV:
prince 2, captain 1, author 1

Total: 4
Definition:
the chief leader, prince
of Christ
one that takes the lead in any thing and thus affords an example, a predecessor in a matter, pioneer
the author

Also used in Heb2
10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain[747] of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

So is AUTHOR the best translation?

August 10, 2008 at 3:25 am#100899

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 10 2008,06:01)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 10 2008,03:58)

Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 09 2008,20:18)

Thanks and love to you
Adam

Love and peace to you and yours……….gene

Hi GB,
We follow Jesus into his rebirth of the Spirit of God.

No voice was heard saying what you quote at the Jordan, but such is written in Ps 2.

Amen to that post brother Nick.

August 10, 2008 at 3:28 am#100900

Participant

Quote (Adam Pastor @ Aug. 10 2008,06:21)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 09 2008,17:18)

Quote (Adam Pastor @ Aug. 09 2008,21:54)

Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 09 2008,09:18)

If God can create woman from Man in the beginning why not the same God can not create man from woman alone ?

Amen! Adam. I totally agree.
No mysticism needed!!

Is the process of simply conception “mysticism”? Why?

Many are offended that God could father his own Son. I don't understand why?

Mandy

It maybe because of the way you're describing it.
It has paganistic overtones.

Greek/Roman/Egyptian Pagans & Polytheists have for centuries been teaching that their gods “fathered” children with mortal women via the use of “male agents”.

Personally, I don't believe that there was any “miraculous insemination” or such like.

Wow! that's amazing truth brother Adam Pastor, I fully agree with you on that understanding on Jesus birth.

May God continue to bless you with more revelations.
Thanks
Adam

August 10, 2008 at 3:43 am#100901

Participant

Hi,
Christ is called an AUTHOR in Heb 5 but another word is used.

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author [159]of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Number 159
Transliteration:
aitios {ah'-ee-tee-os}
Word Origin:
from the same as 154
Part of Speech:
adjective
Usage in the KJV:
author 1

Total: 1
Definition:
that which is the cause of anything resides, causative, causing
the author
of a cause
of crime or offence

August 10, 2008 at 4:08 am#100906

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 10 2008,03:58)

Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 09 2008,20:18)

Thanks and love to you
Adam

Love and peace to you and yours……….gene

Thanks for that helping hand brother Gene.

Peace and love to you
Adam

August 10, 2008 at 3:57 pm#100944