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Hi not3
1 Cor15
45So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL ” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.With whom did he share this life ?
Hi not3,
1 Cor15
45So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL ” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.So there was a time when the second MAN[adam]was not a lifegiving spirit if he became one.
When was this?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 08 2008,02:30) Mandy……If Jesus was in anyway different then Us, then we could say he really did not live a Human sinless life, Thats one of my objections to Jesus not being exactly like us in (EVERY) it takes away from his accomplishments, because he then was not exactly like us. I believe the only difference was Jesus had the fullness of the Spirit in Him and that was what keep him from being overcome by sin and when we recieve that fullness we will also be without sin any longer. I view Jesus just like any other Human man who if given the fullness of Gods Spirit would not sin also. Just imo. Love and peace to you and yours Mandy…………gene
Hi brother Gene,
You have uttered my words. Thanks for that. Our sisters Mandy and Kathi are one in opinion of stating Jesus was some thing different from us when he was born in this world which some of us like you and me won't agree. Jesus the man was infact like you and me and will remain like us even after glorification as we are also going to share his image in resurrection.Please recollect Paul's words to Timothy (1 Tim 2:5) “For there is one God. There is also one mediator between God and the human race, Christ Jesus, himself human” There can never be more than One God as Paul says but there can be more than one man like we have Jesus the second Adam who is now glorified and exalted to the right hand of God. Also please see the verses in Heb 2:
5 “For God hath not subjected unto angels the world to come, whereof we speak. 6 But one in a certain place hath testified, saying: What is man, that thou art mindful of him? Or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7 Thou hast made him a little lower than the angels: thou hast crowned him with glory and honour and hast set him over the works of thy hands. 8 Thou hast subjected all things under his feet. For in that he hath subjected all things to him he left nothing not subject to him. But now we see not as yet all things subject to him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour: that, through the grace of God he might taste death for all”What is that this passage tells us? God has made man little lower than angels but He has now exalted him above the angels and subjected every thing to him. When did this prophecy fulfilled? When Jesus the man was exalted by God by giving all power and authority and giving honour sit at His right hand side.
Why don't people realise that there can never be another God even Jesus who came to reveal that one and only God fully in him. He is the Theophany of that One God but not himself is that God. Jesus is the ultimate hope of mankind to be exalted to the level above angels. He is our brother even in his glorified status. he is not another begotten God which makes God into poly and mystery. God can not have any mortal substance in Him to share with Human Jesus He can only have relationship with him by filling him fully by His Holy Spirit as you have rightly said.
Brothers and sisters please see the truth in my words.
Thanks and peace to you
AdamAdam…….As our sister Jodi says, you have nailed it brother. This is how i knew the Spirit was in you, because you easily understand these truths. Don't let any shake you from what God has given you to understand.
Love and peace to you and yours Adam………….gene
Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 08 2008,23:27) Jesus the man was infact like you and me and will remain like us even after glorification as we are also going to share his image in resurrection.
Adam, were you sired by the Almighty?Perhaps could this qualify as being one difference between you and the Lord Jesus?
I am asking this obvious question because you and Gene seem to proclaim that there is NO DIFFERENCE between us and Jesus.
Thanks,
MandyQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 09 2008,03:03) Adam…….As our sister Jodi says, you have nailed it brother. This is how i knew the Spirit was in you, because you easily understand these truths. Don't let any shake you from what God has given you to understand. Love and peace to you and yours Adam………….gene
Gene and Adam,I also respect Jodi's opinions and beliefs, but just because she has recognized a person as having “right” beliefs doesn't mean a thing.
Humans do not justify us.
Love,
MandyQuote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 08 2008,18:25) Hi not3,
1 Cor15
45So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL ” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.So there was a time when the second MAN[adam]was not a lifegiving spirit if he became one.
When was this?
Hi Nick,Simply put, when Jesus poured his life out in death he gave life to every soul after that. He didn't become anything different than he already was. He was the light of men and the life was in him as he walked the earth.
Anyway, this is how I see it.
MandyQuote (gollamudi @ Aug. 08 2008,23:27) God can not have any mortal substance in Him to share with Human Jesus
Adam,Are you forgetting Mary?
MandyQuote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 09 2008,06:01) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 08 2008,18:25) Hi not3,
1 Cor15
45So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL ” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.So there was a time when the second MAN[adam]was not a lifegiving spirit if he became one.
When was this?
Hi Nick,Simply put, when Jesus poured his life out in death he gave life to every soul after that. He didn't become anything different than he already was. He was the light of men and the life was in him as he walked the earth.
Anyway, this is how I see it.
Mandy
Hi not3,
He gave life to every soul?Surely he rather gives life to those who come to him for living water and that water is the Spirit that was in him, the Spirit of God.
Jn7
37In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
He gave up his own spirit at calvary and now lives in that Holy Spirit and we follow him.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 09 2008,06:01) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 08 2008,18:25) Hi not3,
1 Cor15
45So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL ” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.So there was a time when the second MAN[adam]was not a lifegiving spirit if he became one.
When was this?
Hi Nick,Simply put, when Jesus poured his life out in death he gave life to every soul after that. He didn't become anything different than he already was. He was the light of men and the life was in him as he walked the earth.
Anyway, this is how I see it.
Mandy
Hi not3,
The light that he was full of he ascribed to God in his vessel.He did not lift himself up as anything special but his weak vessel allowed the full expression of God in him.
His unique origins as the Word or as a son born directly of God through the dust of Mary did not cause him to be anything but a man.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 09 2008,05:47) Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 08 2008,23:27) Jesus the man was infact like you and me and will remain like us even after glorification as we are also going to share his image in resurrection.
Adam, were you sired by the Almighty?Perhaps could this qualify as being one difference between you and the Lord Jesus?
I am asking this obvious question because you and Gene seem to proclaim that there is NO DIFFERENCE between us and Jesus.
Thanks,
Mandy
Hi Sis,
You have not fully addressed my post but why judge me on one line. Is it good for you? Please see my post again you people are making Jesus super human. If God was not with him could he do greater things by himself or could he exalt himself to sit at God's right hand side ?Why not see the greatness of God instead of so called imagined diffrence of Jesus with us.
Can a man born to woman or a son of man born to human beings be great before God if so in what way? Then why Jesus was telling that no one is good except God ? You say that Jesus was sharing some material substance like DNA and sperm, but I ask you, can God the immortal spirit being possess any mortal nature in Him ?
Why not see the truth in my honest arguments?
Please understand me sis, I am not hurting anybody here. I am an honest seeker of truth but let others also see what I am talking here.
Thanks and love to you
AdamHi Nick,
Quote He did not lift himself up as anything special but his weak vessel allowed the full expression of God in him. Some say that Jesus was just a man, just like us, a weak vessel. Well, He may have appeared weak while dragging His cross and then hanging on it but that was because He was actually incredibly strong in spirit. He was confident and knew who He was and who His Father was as well as His purpose. He was so confident in who He was and whose He was that He could lay down His own life for us and also make statements like:
“I am the Light of the World”
“Or do you think that I cannot appeal to My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels?”
“But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.”
“For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.”
“I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies…”
Sounds a bit like He did “lift himself up as special.”
And there are so many more of His words like these.
All these things He spoke of were because of His Father of whom He says that without His Father, He could do nothing of Himself. I would say that He was an incredibly stong vessel to be able to totally rely on the Father.
LU
Hi LU,
So what is strength?
Is it what the world admires?
Or is it faith and belief in the promises and the power of God?Jesus had all those strengths
Amen to that brother Nick, if they realise the greatness of God who poured out everything in the weak vessel Jesus which was like any human vessel. Is that not some thing to be seen great than creating another begotten God besides the One and only God?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 08 2008,23:26) Hi LU,
So what is strength?
Is it what the world admires?
Or is it faith and belief in the promises and the power of God?Jesus had all those strengths
Hi Nick,
Exactly, He had strength so why do you call Him a weak vessel when He is a strong vessel?The main thing is that He was a willing vessel just like we can be. And being a strong willing vessel He had a spirit within Him, like every man has within him, except His spirit, His own spirit, was holy, blameless, perfect, not to be confused with the Holy Spirit of the Father eventhough He had that also. Jesus's own spirit was holy and undefiled was it not? That is the Spirit of the Son which soley trusted in the Father. IMO it is the same spirit that pre-existed His fleshly body that even then soley trusted in the Father as a willing vessel in a heavenly body.
He did lift Himself up with words like:
John 14:6
I am the way, and the truth, and the life, no one goes to the Father except through me.Joh 6:35
Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst.”These words were spoken before He died and was given power from on high.
Of course, He couldn't have said that unless the Father had made Him to be those things. My point is that He knew who He was and acting on that brought the Father glory. A strong vessel indeed knows who He is and is not afraid to act on it.
No other man could make most of the claims that He made. He made “super human” claims, no doubt!
LU
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 09 2008,06:58) Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 09 2008,06:01) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 08 2008,18:25) Hi not3,
1 Cor15
45So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL ” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.So there was a time when the second MAN[adam]was not a lifegiving spirit if he became one.
When was this?
Hi Nick,Simply put, when Jesus poured his life out in death he gave life to every soul after that. He didn't become anything different than he already was. He was the light of men and the life was in him as he walked the earth.
Anyway, this is how I see it.
Mandy
Hi not3,
He gave life to every soul?Surely he rather gives life to those who come to him for living water and that water is the Spirit that was in him, the Spirit of God.
Jn7
37In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
He gave up his own spirit at calvary and now lives in that Holy Spirit and we follow him.
Hi Nick,
Agreed. I meant to say that because Jesus has died, he now offers life to everyone – everyone who will accept his offer (and to the “other sheep” that we know nothing about. We don't know what criteria God has for them.)Thanks,
MandyQuote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 09 2008,07:45) His unique origins as the Word or as a son born directly of God through the dust of Mary did not cause him to be anything but a man.
Of course I completely disagree that Jesus was only a man from dust. He was the man from heaven! Adam is the one who gets to claim the title, “The earthly man”.Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 09 2008,13:12) You say that Jesus was sharing some material substance like DNA and sperm, but I ask you, can God the immortal spirit being possess any mortal nature in Him ? Why not see the truth in my honest arguments?
Hi Adam,I see your honest arguments. Please don't take things too personal here. When I read posts, I may only see one line that is of debate for me in a any given post – it is this line that I hilight and address. But certainly I read your whole post and contemplate your message.
The simple point that I am trying to get accross by saying that Jesus is the literal Son of God, is to say that he was brought into this world by conception and birth. God Almighty was the Father, and Mary was the mother. They each played a role. Our knowledge of this process tells us what these roles are. I'm sorry that it offends you to think tht God could be a actual father to his Son.
God is not a man, however he is the “source” of Jesus. A quick definition of “source” is to provide what is needed. In Jesus' conception, what was needed was a sperm. We know that a sperm fertilizes an egg and that is how a human is born. God did not see fit to deviate from this well-known, simple process. He could have, but chose not to. There is a reason for this.
Mary is human and contributed to the sperm that fertilized her egg. I'm sure that Jesus inherited all the divine attributes from God's donation, and all the humanistic attributes from Mary's donation. Together, they produced Jesus. God did not do this on his own (otherwise he would have just sent a body down from heaven or had Jesus take over a body that was already alive). Mary did not do this alone as a women cannot conceive without a sperm to fertilize her egg!
God + Mary = Divine Man
This is my understanding.
MandyHi Mandy,
Thanks for that understanding about me. That is the reason why I like you very much, you don't criticise any one but certainly address them. God creates things like he did in the beginning. He can create a sperm or DNA by His Holy Spirit but He can not possess some thing which is against His nature that is Spirit as I repeatedly quote here. He has certainly passed on His nature that is Spirit to Jesus through the power of Holy Spirit when Mary conceived Jesus. I don't agree with your logic of saying God possesses some mortal sperm or DNA to pass on to Mary. If God can create woman from Man in the beginning why not the same God can not create man from woman alone ? I don't see any mysticism here I see Jesus is the man born like you and me but had the fullness of God's Spirit in him which qualifies him to be called as the Son of God but not because he is having God's DNA in him. God is Spirit in nature no material substance like humans.Thanks and love to you
Adam
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