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Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 01 2009,20:13) Quote (david @ Sep. 01 2009,17:30) Quote You have a false premise. You can't prove from Scripture alone that dunking is the “only” licit means of performing a valid baptism. –CA.
That is, afterall, what the word actually means.
–The Greek ba′pti·sma refers to the process of immersion, including submersion and emergence.
–It is derived from the verb ba′pto, meaning “dip.” (Joh 13:26)
In the Bible, “to baptize” is the same as “to immerse.”In illustration of this, The Holy Bible, An Improved Edition, renders Romans 6:3, 4 as follows: “Or, are ye ignorant, that all we who were baptized (immersed) into Christ Jesus were baptized (immersed) into his death? We were buried therefore with him through our baptism (immersion) into his death.” (See also Ro; ED.) The Greek Septuagint uses a form of the same word for “dip” at Exodus 12:22 and Leviticus 4:6.
So,
#1. The actual word “baptism” literally means to immerse, to dip. (not sprinkle, nor pour.)
#2. The earliest examples of this, (the true Christians) bear this out:Mark 1:9, 10: “Jesus . . . was baptized [“immersed,” ED, Ro] in the Jordan [River] by John. And immediately on coming up out of the water he saw the heavens being parted.”
Acts 8:38: “They both went down into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized [“immersed,” ED, Ro] him.”
So to recap, for those that don't like to read:
The word “baptism” literally involves being immersed in the water, and the true Christians (before the apostasy) did it that way.(Then, of course, in the 3d or 4th century, false Christians changed that, and most everything else.)
Yes, we (the true Christians) did it this way. But we didn't do it in the name of the “spirit of the organization” like you were invalidly baptized. Did we?The word “sin” (Gk. hamartia) comes from a meaning “to miss the mark”. Or in essence, you tried to hit the mark but missed. But the meaning came quickly to include willful disobedience. (i.e. not trying to hit the mark at all)
Or the Gk. word for sincere means “without wax”. You can't use a lexicon as a dictionary.
Stop trying to act like a scholar. If you were anything of the sort, you wouldn't use that crazy NWT. I mean, honestly?!
Sure, CA, dismiss the Bible and ignore what words actually mean.Good plan.
Quote Yes, we (the true Christians) did it this way. But you don't anymore. You don't really resemble the Christianity of the first century at all, in any way, or at least, every way I see.
Quote Yes, we (the true Christians) did it this way. But we didn't do it in the name of the “spirit of the organization” like you were invalidly baptized. Did we? The word “sin” (Gk. hamartia) comes from a meaning “to miss the mark”. Or in essence, you tried to hit the mark but missed. But the meaning came quickly to include willful disobedience. (i.e. not trying to hit the mark at all)
Or the Gk. word for sincere means “without wax”. You can't use a lexicon as a dictionary.
Stop trying to act like a scholar. If you were anything of the sort, you wouldn't use that crazy NWT. I mean, honestly?!
Sure, CA, dismiss the Bible and ignore what words actually mean.
Good plan.
Quote
Yes, we (the true Christians) did it this way.But you don't anymore. You don't really resemble the Christianity of the first century at all, in any way, or at least, every way I see.
Sure, David, dismiss your own invalid baptism “in the spirit of the organization”. Good plan.
The Kingdom of God is like a mustard seed which grew into a tree and the birds filled the branches.
That seeing they might not see…
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 02 2009,06:57) Hi CA,
So we have two invalid baptisms so far.
Why not go back to ACTS?
O…you weren't baptized into the Church, the body of Christ either?So two invalid baptisms, eh?
I was Baptized:” In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. We had several People getting Baptized at that time and after all were Baptized, the Minister laid Hands on each one of us, and we received the Holy Spirit. I know that it was so, because of what happened to me the next day. Every time I said a curse word, the Holy Spirit reminded me, Heh that is not right. And that happened more then one time that day. Every time I asked God please show me my faults and bingo He did. I have learned so much since then. That now is 24 years ago. What a great God we have.
I want to add, that we were submerged all the way under, not like we were at the Catholic Church.
Peace and Love Irene
Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 02 2009,07:34) I was Baptized:” In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. We had several People getting Baptized at that time and after all were Baptized, the Minister laid Hands on each one of us, and we received the Holy Spirit. I know that it was so, because of what happened to me the next day. Every time I said a curse word, the Holy Spirit reminded me, Heh that is not right. And that happened more then one time that day. Every time I asked God please show me my faults and bingo He did. I have learned so much since then. That now is 24 years ago. What a great God we have. I want to add, that we were submerged all the way under, not like we were at the Catholic Church.
Peace and Love Irene
The mark was placed upon your soul at your Catholic baptism.Unfortunately someone must have failed to teach you the faith.
Quote (david @ Sep. 01 2009,10:29) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 01 2009,18:22) Quote (david @ Sep. 01 2009,02:05) Quote and his writings are Trinitarian. Click here…
I “clicked here.”
He apparently wrote 7 authentic letters, letters actually written by him.
But, the article said: By the 5th century, this authentic collection had been enlarged by spurious letters, and some of the original letters had been changed with interpolations, created to posthumously enlist Ignatius as an unwitting witness in theological disputes of that age, while the purported eye-witness account of his martyrdom is also thought to be a forgery from around the same time.
I found this interesting as well:
The letters of St. Ignatius have proved to be important testimony to the development of catholic theology, since the number of extant writings from this period of Church history is very small. They bear signs of being written in great haste and without a proper plan, such as run-on sentences and an unsystematic succession of thought. Ignatius is one of the earliest catholic writers to re-emphasize loyalty to a single bishop in each city (or diocese) who is assisted by both presbyters (priests, a.k.a. elders) and deacons. Earlier writings [[[the Bible]]] only mention either bishops or presbyters, and give the impression that there was usually more than one bishop per congregation.So, according to the inspired word of God, there were more than “one bishop [elder/overseer] per congregation.”
This guy, Ignatius, who, I'm guessing liked the power wanted “loyalty” to one bishop, and I'm guessing he was that bishop.
Hi DavidMy point was the Catholic Church existed long before Irene said.
The seven letters are authentic…
The seven letters considered to be authentic are:
To the Ephesians
To the Magnesians
Letter to the Trallians
To the Romans
To the Philadelphians
To the Smyrnaeans
To Polycarp, Bishop of SmyrnaThe Spurious letters that followed were…
Letters of Pseudo-Ignatius
Epistles attributed to Saint Ignatius but of spurious origin include:[6]Epistle to the Tarsians
Epistle to the Antiochians
Epistle to Hero, a Deacon of Antioch
Epistle to the Philippians
The Epistle of Maria the Proselyte to Ignatius
Epistle to Mary at Neapolis, Near Zarbus
First Epistle to St. John
Second Epistle to St. John
The Epistle of Ignatius to the Virgin Mary
Reply of the Blessed Virgin to this LetterThe Spurious letters do not negate the Authentic!
I Like the way you inject the Bible in there where it says “ealier writings”, can you show me where the Bible says there was more than “One” ” bishop per congregation?
WJ
If you read the parts of your reference that I underlined, I think they touch on both the comments you made. The spurious do not negate the authentic, but what does your reference say?
And what does it say with regard to there being more than one bishop per congregation? I underlined it for you.
Hi DavidWhat does “Give the Impression” mean?
Are you just trying to be argumentive?
WJ
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 02 2009,08:11) Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 02 2009,07:34) I was Baptized:” In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. We had several People getting Baptized at that time and after all were Baptized, the Minister laid Hands on each one of us, and we received the Holy Spirit. I know that it was so, because of what happened to me the next day. Every time I said a curse word, the Holy Spirit reminded me, Heh that is not right. And that happened more then one time that day. Every time I asked God please show me my faults and bingo He did. I have learned so much since then. That now is 24 years ago. What a great God we have. I want to add, that we were submerged all the way under, not like we were at the Catholic Church.
Peace and Love Irene
The mark was placed upon your soul at your Catholic baptism.Unfortunately someone must have failed to teach you the faith.
Hi CA,
Where is this mark on the soul mentioned in scripture?
By faith do you mean the foolish catholic dogmas?Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 02 2009,08:11) Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 02 2009,07:34) I was Baptized:” In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. We had several People getting Baptized at that time and after all were Baptized, the Minister laid Hands on each one of us, and we received the Holy Spirit. I know that it was so, because of what happened to me the next day. Every time I said a curse word, the Holy Spirit reminded me, Heh that is not right. And that happened more then one time that day. Every time I asked God please show me my faults and bingo He did. I have learned so much since then. That now is 24 years ago. What a great God we have. I want to add, that we were submerged all the way under, not like we were at the Catholic Church.
Peace and Love Irene
The mark was placed upon your soul at your Catholic baptism.Unfortunately someone must have failed to teach you the faith.
That too is ridiculous. No my friend you need to read the Bible in an open mind you might learn something. The Catholics do not Baptize according to Scripture.
Take that to the Bank.
IreneQuote (Cindy @ Sep. 02 2009,08:29) Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 02 2009,08:11) Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 02 2009,07:34) I was Baptized:” In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. We had several People getting Baptized at that time and after all were Baptized, the Minister laid Hands on each one of us, and we received the Holy Spirit. I know that it was so, because of what happened to me the next day. Every time I said a curse word, the Holy Spirit reminded me, Heh that is not right. And that happened more then one time that day. Every time I asked God please show me my faults and bingo He did. I have learned so much since then. That now is 24 years ago. What a great God we have. I want to add, that we were submerged all the way under, not like we were at the Catholic Church.
Peace and Love Irene
The mark was placed upon your soul at your Catholic baptism.Unfortunately someone must have failed to teach you the faith.
That too is ridiculous. No my friend you need to read the Bible in an open mind you might learn something. The Catholics do not Baptize according to Scripture.
Take that to the Bank.
Irene
All baptism is unscriptural. Baptism was old covenant and has ceased. All who practice baptism are living under an old covenant principle.thinker
Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 02 2009,08:29) Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 02 2009,08:11) Quote (Cindy @ Sep. 02 2009,07:34) I was Baptized:” In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. We had several People getting Baptized at that time and after all were Baptized, the Minister laid Hands on each one of us, and we received the Holy Spirit. I know that it was so, because of what happened to me the next day. Every time I said a curse word, the Holy Spirit reminded me, Heh that is not right. And that happened more then one time that day. Every time I asked God please show me my faults and bingo He did. I have learned so much since then. That now is 24 years ago. What a great God we have. I want to add, that we were submerged all the way under, not like we were at the Catholic Church.
Peace and Love Irene
The mark was placed upon your soul at your Catholic baptism.Unfortunately someone must have failed to teach you the faith.
That too is ridiculous. No my friend you need to read the Bible in an open mind you might learn something. The Catholics do not Baptize according to Scripture.
Take that to the Bank.
Irene
You poor lady. Allow me to show you some Catholics who baptize by immersion and so silence your voice of ignorance:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktKmY_S2OPc
Also, here is an orthodox baptism by immersion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qYSCBR3Y-w
So please stop speaking about things you know very little of and start listening to the Church.
I was baptised age 15 I cant remember much about it except we wore white gowns and went all the way under. I think it was Apostolic? I was living with a foster family at the time, and it took me another 20 years before God jolted me out of my nightmare life! And that he did I will never forget. God is real!
My very Catholic parents at their church they have a baptism pool.
Blessings
Quote (karmarie @ Sep. 02 2009,09:55) I was baptised age 15 I cant remember much about it except we wore white gowns and went all the way under. I think it was Apostolic? I was living with a foster family at the time, and it took me another 20 years before God jolted me out of my nightmare life! And that he did I will never forget. God is real! My very Catholic parents at their church they have a baptism pool.
Blessings
Baptism is old covenant!thinker
Hi TT,
The book of Acts is our example of the way of Jesus.
Paul has not superceded the Lord Jesus ChristQuote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 02 2009,10:07) Hi TT,
The book of Acts is our example of the way of Jesus.
Paul has not superceded the Lord Jesus Christ
Paul claimed that Jesus gave Him the gospel he preached. Therefore, Jesus superceded His own (old covenant) word.Hebrews chapters 6-8 teach that the teachings of Christ were old covenant. So get with Paul's new covenant gospel Nick! The train has left without you and you will need to catch a flight to catch up with it to get on board. It's not too late.
thinker
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 01 2009,17:27) Quote The Lord gave the Apostle Peter the keys to the kingdom of heaven which is the gospel. Your opening statement is the key to our misunderstanding of each other.
The keys of the kingdom of heaven were AN OFFICE.
Did you listen to that bit about the Key of David?
Hi CA:Yes, the Lord appointed gave the Apostle Peter an office or authority in the church, but the keys are the Word of God. He tells him whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
The govening authority of the office is the Word of God by which the authority of the church will make their decisions. It is with the keys that the door to the kingdom of heaven is opened or locked.
Perhaps the following scriptures will help you to understand this about the key of David:
Quote Rev 3:7 ¶ And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
Rev 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.It is because of the works of obedience to God's Word that their is an open door to the angel of the church of Philadelphia.
But also, you ignored the following question? Was the Apostle Paul the successor to the Apostle Peter?
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote Was the Apostle Paul the successor to the Apostle Peter? In which apostolic see? Peter was in Antioch and Rome. In Rome, his (Peter's) first successor was Linus.
Hi CA,
Reliance on history and men as leaders seems unwise when it is Jesus you will need to find favour with.Tell us of the primacy of Peter in Acts when the apostles met and several leaders were seen and James did most of the speaking.
Is this the relevant example for the current worship of the man who lives as a king in a palace in Rome?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 02 2009,10:44) Hi CA,
Reliance on history and men as leaders seems unwise when it is Jesus you will need to find favour with.Tell us of the primacy of Peter in Acts when the apostles met and several leaders were seen and James did most of the speaking.
Is this the relevant example for the current worship of the man who lives as a king in a palace in Rome?
How do you expect me to respect anything you say, when you cannot substantiate how you can even claim what books even belong in Scripture and why?
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