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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 04 2007,12:23) Hi charity,
Still seiving scripture for the bits you approve of and discarding the unpalatable?
Glad TO KNOW YOUR FOUNDATIONS, STILL ROMAN….WHEN IN ROME DO AS THE RO MANS DO!Hi charity,
No man can put himself above scripture and judge it.Even the Jews searched the scriptures knowing they were truth.
Jn5
” 38And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.”
Acts 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 04 2007,14:58) Hi charity,
No man can put himself above scripture and judge it.Even the Jews searched the scriptures knowing they were truth.
Jn5
” 38And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.39Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.”
Acts 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
nick I think we should all follow the Thessalonians and search the Scriptures daily, that is very good advice.Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 03 2007,20:24) Hi Stu,
Are you angry with God
or refusing to believe in Him?
If he existed the way you portray him, I would do what I could to take the stand against him on judgement day and have him condemned for all his crimes against humanity. Parents are not allowed to kill their children, who is there so much respect for a deity killing his creations?As god and his works exist only in the heads of believers, I really couldn't care less. The only danger comes from some of those who believe the myth is literally real.
Stuart
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 04 2007,12:23) Hi charity,
Still sieving scripture for the bits you approve of and discarding the unpalatable?
Nick, when did you last stone an adulterer?Stuart
Stu, when did you last make a stone tool for hunting?
Hey, I am talking to a self-confessed ape, so the question is valid.
Oh, it isn't valid. Wrong discussion. This one is about the bible.
Sorry stu. You can reply in the evolution or the banana discussion if you want.
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 08 2007,00:04) Oh, it isn't valid. Wrong discussion. This one is about the bible. Sorry stu. You can reply in the evolution or the banana discussion if you want.
That's right. I just wonder how much hypocrisy some christians have left in them after accusing other christians of being inconsistent. When did you last should out to a gay couple on the street that they are an abomination or put to death some unruly children?I thing it might have been you t8 who posted off-topic here.
Stuart
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 08 2007,00:02) Stu, when did you last make a stone tool for hunting? Hey, I am talking to a self-confessed ape, so the question is valid.
You are an ape discussing with another ape a stone-age religious philosophy invented apes that is deservedly losing ape followers by the week in most western democracies.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 07 2007,21:23) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 04 2007,12:23) Hi charity,
Still sieving scripture for the bits you approve of and discarding the unpalatable?
Nick, when did you last stone an adulterer?Stuart
Hi Stu,
Having found within myself all the roots of sin I cannot but be grateful for the saving forgiveness of God in Jesus.
But disrespect for the Word of God I abhor.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 08 2007,05:05) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 07 2007,21:23) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 04 2007,12:23) Hi charity,
Still sieving scripture for the bits you approve of and discarding the unpalatable?
Nick, when did you last stone an adulterer?Stuart
Hi Stu,
Having found within myself all the roots of sin I cannot but be grateful for the saving forgiveness of God in Jesus.
But disrespect for the Word of God I abhor.
Nick it is not a book that I wrote that tells you that homosexuals and adulterers are good for executing and you should either ignore, or try and convert atheists, depending on which part of it you read. Is the bible a real, living, breathing human being? Is your god? If a person's live depended on it, would you give up your chance of 'salvation' for that person?I don't think religious fundamentalists can be trusted on a day-to-day basis. I have little respect for the death-filled fantasy world that some of them inhabit.
Stuart
Hi Stu,
Reading the bible is the closest thing most people will get to being touched by God.
The harsh OT law is not for those in Christ but they are under the new law of freedom.
Freedom not to sin but to be changed into a Christlike person by the Spirit of God reborn into them.Nick Stu cant understand and won't because God is not calling Him. No matter what you or anybody will say to Him, He will either make fun of the situation or discredit you or trying to, and there is scriptures that tell us we should dust of our shoes, you know.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (IM4Truth @ Dec. 08 2007,14:38) Nick Stu cant understand and won't because God is not calling Him. No matter what you or anybody will say to Him, He will either make fun of the situation or discredit you or trying to, and there is scriptures that tell us we should dust of our shoes, you know. Peace and Love Mrs.
What are you doing about your scriptural obligation to evangelise to me?Actually I'm glad you don't. Not that I don't like to read what you write, I just find it dull being lectured by people who are earnest about their fantasy tales.
Stuart
I sometimes wish that I could read the bible with the blind belief that Nick has that every word is the inspired
word of God. But I can not.The bible is a compilation of stories representing multiple points of view. Christian theology is supposed to
be based on the bible, but in actual practice it is based on selective quotations. This makes it necessary to selectively
disregard other quotations. This explains why there are hundreds of denominations and divisions in the church.The bible is not consistent, and this leads to inconsistent selection and differencees of opinion concerning which
quotation should be adhered to and which should be disregarded. My problem is that I believe in God, and I believe that the bible
tells us about Him. But even the bible tells us to not believe everything that is written, because the scribes lied.
The bible even tells us that a lot of what Moses claimed that God commanded was a lie.
So how do I know what to believe?Tim:(
Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 08 2007,06:46) I sometimes wish that I could read the bible with the blind belief that Nick has that every word is the inspired
word of God. But I can not.The bible is a compilation of stories representing multiple points of view. Christian theology is supposed to
be based on the bible, but in actual practice it is based onselective quotations. This makes it necessary to selectively
disregard other quotations. This explains why there are hundreds of denominations and divisions in the church.The bible is not consistent, and this leads to inconsistent selection and differencees of opinion concerning which
quotation should be adhered to and which should be disregarded. My problem is that I believe in God, and I believe that the bible
tells us about Him. But even the bible tells us to not believe everything that is written, because the scribes lied.And where do you get this idea? The GT.
Quote The bible even tells us that a lot of what Moses claimed that God commanded was a lie.
So how do I know what to believe?Tim:(
And where do you get this? The apostate Paul.This is what happens when you believe what Paul says over what the Tanakh says. Paul never once spoke as a prophet. You never once read anything about Paul related to this
========================================
Num 36:5 And Moses commanded the children of Israel according to the word of the LORD, saying, The tribe of the sons of Joseph hath said well.1Sa 15:10 Then came the word of the LORD unto Samuel, saying,
2Sa 7:4 And it came to pass that night, that the word of the LORD came unto Nathan, saying,
2Sa 24:11 For when David was up in the morning, the word of the LORD came unto the prophet Gad, David's seer, saying,
1Ki 6:11 And the word of the LORD came to Solomon, saying,
1Ki 13:17 For it was said to me by the word of the LORD, Thou shalt eat no bread nor drink water there, nor turn again to go by the way that thou camest.
Isa 38:4 Then came the word of the LORD to Isaiah, saying,
Jer 1:2 To whom the word of the LORD came in the days of Josiah the son of Amon king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reign.
Eze 1:3 The word of the LORD came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was there upon him.
Hos 1:1 The word of the LORD that came unto Hosea, the son of Beeri, in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash, king of Israel.
Joe 1:1 The word of the LORD that came to Joel the son of Pethuel.
Amo 7:16 Now therefore hear thou the word of the LORD: Thou sayest, Prophesy not against Israel, and drop not thy word against the house of Isaac.
Jon 1:1 Now the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the son of Amittai, saying,
Mic 1:1 The word of the LORD that came to Micah the Morasthite in the days of Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, which he saw concerning Samaria and Jerusalem.
Zep 1:1 The word of the LORD which came unto Zephaniah the son of Cushi, the son of Gedaliah, the son of Amariah, the son of Hizkiah, in the days of Josiah the son of Amon, king of Judah.
Hag 1:1 In the second year of Darius the king, in the sixth month, in the first day of the month, came the word of the LORD by Haggai the prophet unto Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest, saying,
Zec 1:1 In the eighth month, in the second year of Darius, came the word of the LORD unto Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, the son of Iddo the prophet, saying,
Mal 1:1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
======================================Paul never said his words were the words of YHVH. Never. At best, he said his words were those of Jesus. Of Christians think they are one in the same, but YHVH is never mentioned in the GT.
Hi Tow,
Glad to see you are still here. I was afraid that they had run you off. I rather enjoy the stimulation your posts generate.
No, it wasn’t Paul that caused me to reach these conclusions. It was what God said through His prophets Isaiah and Jeremaih that you quoted. I assume that you believe what they said. Even some psalms warn us of the bible.Jeremiah makes his condemnation of the law books explicit in the passage that follows:
“My people do not know The ordinance of YAHWEH. How can you say, ‘We are wise, And the law of YAHWEH is with us’? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made it into a lie. The wise men are put to shame, They are dismayed and caught; Behold, they have rejected the word of YAHWEH, And what kind of wisdom do they have?” Jeremiah Chapter 8 verse 7This rejection of the laws of Moses is echoed in the book of Isaiah.
“What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices? says YAHWEH; I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fed beasts; I do not delight in the blood of bulls, or of lambs, or of goats. When you come to appear before me, who asked this from your hand? Trample my courts no more; bringing offerings is futile; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and Sabbath and calling of convocation— I cannot endure solemn assemblies with iniquity. Your new moons and your appointed festivals my soul hates; they have become a burden to me, I am weary of bearing them.” (Isaiah Chapter 1 verse 11)
Everyone of the practices condemned as abominations by Isaiah in the following passage is advocated in the law books and supposedly commanded by Moses.
“But he who kills an ox is like one who slays a man; He who sacrifices a lamb is like the one who breaks a dog’s neck; He who offers a grain offering is like one who offers swine’s blood; He who burns incense is like the one who blesses an idol. These people have chosen their own ways and their souls revel in their abominations.” (Isaiah Chapter 66 verse 3)
Isaiah refers to these practices as 'abominations' and, like Jeremiah, equates them with rebellion. They are all advocated in the law, supposedly delivered to Moses by God, the same God who then delivered messages condemning such practices to the prophets.
You are doing exactly what I said. You are selectively quoting some passages and selectively ignoring the ones that you don't fit your theology.
Welcome to the club Tow.
Tim
Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 08 2007,11:00) Hi Tow,
Glad to see you are still here. I was afraid that they had run you off. I rather enjoy the stimulation your posts generate.
No, it wasn’t Paul that caused me to reach these conclusions. It was what God said through His prophets Isaiah and Jeremaih that you quoted. I assume that you believe what they said. Even some psalms warn us of the bible.If you could list the troubling passages we could address them. Do I believe all of the Hebrew bible? No. It was the work of many men writing under inspiration but that does not mean that their own bias and fantasy did not creep in. You have to remember that the world back then was much different than today. What is superstition today was seen as real belief in many ways back then.
Still there is much truth to be found.
Is YHVH as bloodthirsty as the Tanakh puts Him out to be? I don't believe so. I believe it was men who wanted to justify what they did in the name of YHVH. People have been trying to justify evil in the name of G-d since the dawn of man. If people would just realize that they might be able to actually believe in G-d.
As far as not being around, two reasons: (1) most don't want me here and they changed the board up to reflect that. (2) Kejonn asked me to come to his board so this board could go back to what it was before I came here
. But his board is boring right now because only one guy cares to engage me there. Hopefully he will get more soon.Quote Jeremiah makes his condemnation of the law books explicit in the passage that follows:
“My people do not know The ordinance of YAHWEH. How can you say, ‘We are wise, And the law of YAHWEH is with us’? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made it into a lie. The wise men are put to shame, They are dismayed and caught; Behold, they have rejected the word of YAHWEH, And what kind of wisdom do they have?” Jeremiah Chapter 8 verse 7Even Jesus speaks of scribes
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
The scribes in Jer 8:8 are much like the same in Mat 5:20. They are NOT the ones who copied scripture. Why would a person who merely copies text be called 'righteous'? No, scribes were teachers. So what you see in Jer 8:8 is a rebuke against false teachers who know the word of YHVH but teach something different to the people.
Quote This rejection of the laws of Moses is echoed in the book of Isaiah. “What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices? says YAHWEH; I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fed beasts; I do not delight in the blood of bulls, or of lambs, or of goats. When you come to appear before me, who asked this from your hand? Trample my courts no more; bringing offerings is futile; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and Sabbath and calling of convocation— I cannot endure solemn assemblies with iniquity. Your new moons and your appointed festivals my soul hates; they have become a burden to me, I am weary of bearing them.” (Isaiah Chapter 1 verse 11)
This is an easy one. Basically it speaks of the vanity of seeking atonement when there is no repentance. They had been only going through the motions and were not sincerely regretful for their wickedness. Its much like asking forgiveness for lying and then turning around and lying to someone. You understand true repentance don't you? I'm pretty sure you do.
Even your own bible reflects people like this.
=========================================
Rev 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
Rev 2:3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
=========================================Just like the Isaiah passage, it speaks of people who go through the motions thinking that is all that is required. Christian churches and Jewish synagogues are full of these people.
Quote Everyone of the practices condemned as abominations by Isaiah in the following passage is advocated in the law books and supposedly commanded by Moses. As shown though it was the manner, not the actual practices. Note that YHVH used 'your' quite often. They were no longer YHVH's way, they were being done in the way of man.
Quote “But he who kills an ox is like one who slays a man; He who sacrifices a lamb is like the one who breaks a dog’s neck; He who offers a grain offering is like one who offers swine’s blood; He who burns incense is like the one who blesses an idol. These people have chosen their own ways and their souls revel in their abominations.” (Isaiah Chapter 66 verse 3) Note the last sentence here, it is the key: “These people have chosen their own ways and their souls revel in their abominations.”
Quote Isaiah refers to these practices as 'abominations' and, like Jeremiah, equates them with rebellion. They are all advocated in the law, supposedly delivered to Moses by God, the same God who then delivered messages condemning such practices to the prophets. If you would find the meaning of these passages you must read them in context. It is all about people seeking atonement and forgiveness through rituals rather than the actual underlying heartfelt repentance that needs to accompany such actions.
Quote You are doing exactly what I said. You are selectively quoting some passages and selectively ignoring the ones that you don't fit your theology. Welcome to the club Tow.
Tim
No, you just need to understand the passages better and investigate deeper. I think you know context. Please reread these passages in their true context and you will come to understand.Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 09 2007,03:35) Quote (TimothyVI @ Dec. 08 2007,06:46) I sometimes wish that I could read the bible with the blind belief that Nick has that every word is the inspired
word of God. But I can not.The bible is a compilation of stories representing multiple points of view. Christian theology is supposed to
be based on the bible, but in actual practice it is based onselective quotations. This makes it necessary to selectively
disregard other quotations. This explains why there are hundreds of denominations and divisions in the church.The bible is not consistent, and this leads to inconsistent selection and differencees of opinion concerning which
quotation should be adhered to and which should be disregarded. My problem is that I believe in God, and I believe that the bible
tells us about Him. But even the bible tells us to not believe everything that is written, because the scribes lied.And where do you get this idea? The GT.
Quote The bible even tells us that a lot of what Moses claimed that God commanded was a lie.
So how do I know what to believe?Tim:(
And where do you get this? The apostate Paul.This is what happens when you believe what Paul says over what the Tanakh says. Paul never once spoke as a prophet. You never once read anything about Paul related to this
========================================
Num 36:5 And Moses commanded the children of Israel according to the word of the LORD, saying, The tribe of the sons of Joseph hath said well.1Sa 15:10 Then came the word of the LORD unto Samuel, saying,
2Sa 7:4 And it came to pass that night, that the word of the LORD came unto Nathan, saying,
2Sa 24:11 For when David was up in the morning, the word of the LORD came unto the prophet Gad, David's seer, saying,
1Ki 6:11 And the word of the LORD came to Solomon, saying,
1Ki 13:17 For it was said to me by the word of the LORD, Thou shalt eat no bread nor drink water there, nor turn again to go by the way that thou camest.
Isa 38:4 Then came the word of the LORD to Isaiah, saying,
Jer 1:2 To whom the word of the LORD came in the days of Josiah the son of Amon king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reign.
Eze 1:3 The word of the LORD came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was there upon him.
Hos 1:1 The word of the LORD that came unto Hosea, the son of Beeri, in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash, king of Israel.
Joe 1:1 The word of the LORD that came to Joel the son of Pethuel.
Amo 7:16 Now therefore hear thou the word of the LORD: Thou sayest, Prophesy not against Israel, and drop not thy word against the house of Isaac.
Jon 1:1 Now the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the son of Amittai, saying,
Mic 1:1 The word of the LORD that came to Micah the Morasthite in the days of Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, which he saw concerning Samaria and Jerusalem.
Zep 1:1 The word of the LORD which came unto Zephaniah the son of Cushi, the son of Gedaliah, the son of Amariah, the son of Hizkiah, in the days of Josiah the son of Amon, king of Judah.
Hag 1:1 In the second year of Darius the king, in the sixth month, in the first day of the month, came the word of the LORD by Haggai the prophet unto Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest, saying,
Zec 1:1 In the eighth month, in the second year of Darius, came the word of the LORD unto Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, the son of Iddo the prophet, saying,
Mal 1:1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.
======================================Paul never said his words were the words of YHVH. Never. At best, he said his words were those of Jesus. Of Christians think they are one in the same, but YHVH is never mentioned in the GT.
Hi Tow,
If you do not know and love Paul
you do not know and love Christ.” Love one another as I have loved you”
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