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Pierre, The reason that I am posting this in all of your responses is because even though I do my best to answer your questions in good faith, you ignore mine, especially when the answers you would be forced to give would show your duplicity. You then used one statement I made about holding hands with other people and saying the our father and tried to say it was wrong, when it would be black and white right, in that that is the one prayer Jesus gave us and holding hands would be showing love to one another as he commanded. You then respond by cutting and pasteing incredibly long articles that have nothing to do with our discussion………… Baptism is not a catholic ritual, Jesus was baptised. You got the ignorance to call him pagan? Communion was instituted by Jesus at the last supper, and he asked us to do that in memory of him. You got the guts to call that pagan too? In alll of that being said, you never answered the questions- Were you baptised in a church? Any church? Have you taken the lords supper in thirty years? Be honest. I will ask you that until you give me a honest answer like I give you. (Treating others as you would be treated) You answer those and I will discuss my specifics. Please. Peace and Love- Mark
Quote (mikeangel @ Sep. 30 2010,05:05) Pierre, The reason that I am posting this in all of your responses is because even though I do my best to answer your questions in good faith, you ignore mine, especially when the answers you would be forced to give would show your duplicity. You then used one statement I made about holding hands with other people and saying the our father and tried to say it was wrong, when it would be black and white right, in that that is the one prayer Jesus gave us and holding hands would be showing love to one another as he commanded. You then respond by cutting and pasteing incredibly long articles that have nothing to do with our discussion………… Baptism is not a catholic ritual, Jesus was baptised. You got the ignorance to call him pagan? Communion was instituted by Jesus at the last supper, and he asked us to do that in memory of him. You got the guts to call that pagan too? In alll of that being said, you never answered the questions- Were you baptised in a church? Any church? Have you taken the lords supper in thirty years? Be honest. I will ask you that until you give me a honest answer like I give you. (Treating others as you would be treated) You answer those and I will discuss my specifics. Please. Peace and Love- Mark
Markyes i was baptise twice, ones as a catholic baby and ones in the way Christ was full immersion.in the name of Christ.
wen i was 23 years old,and no i do not part taking in the heavenly call,
as remembering Christ sacrifice ,yes i do that on a daily base 24/7 it never leaves my mine.
Pierre
Thank you my friend. We have one thing (at least) in common. I too was baptised as a baby Catholic. And I too had a disagreement with not being immersed. I was immersed in 09 at my wifes church. Like 99% of christians we were baptised in a church. If you feel ok and saved and fulfilled by not going, thats your decision, but IMO if you proclaim that church is wrong an only from men you renounce both the baptisms you recieved. You disclaim yours, and that is your decision…………….. I also did not expect the answer you gave on communion. I expected you just to say “no” about recieving it, but you added one thing that made me truely concerned about you -“no i do not part taking in the heavenly call”, Pierre, I hope you do. Even if you do not remember him like he asked you to if you do not” part taking ” in the Heavenly call (IMO) you will be left behind very soon.For that matter why don't you get some wine or grape juice and unleavaned bread with someone and remember him like he asked you too? Are you so bitter at the church that you even leave behind his request from you? …………….. PS I'm not going to pester you anymore, thanks for answering my questions. Peace
Quote (mikeangel @ Sep. 30 2010,20:07) Thank you my friend. We have one thing (at least) in common. I too was baptised as a baby Catholic. And I too had a disagreement with not being immersed. I was immersed in 09 at my wifes church. Like 99% of christians we were baptised in a church. If you feel ok and saved and fulfilled by not going, thats your decision, but IMO if you proclaim that church is wrong an only from men you renounce both the baptisms you recieved. You disclaim yours, and that is your decision…………….. I also did not expect the answer you gave on communion. I expected you just to say “no” about recieving it, but you added one thing that made me truely concerned about you -“no i do not part taking in the heavenly call”, Pierre, I hope you do. Even if you do not remember him like he asked you to if you do not” part taking ” in the Heavenly call (IMO) you will be left behind very soon.For that matter why don't you get some wine or grape juice and unleavaned bread with someone and remember him like he asked you too? Are you so bitter at the church that you even leave behind his request from you? …………….. PS I'm not going to pester you anymore, thanks for answering my questions. Peace
Markwhat i have said is true ,there are two flocks one for heaven and one for the earth,
Mark i have to chock you again ;but there is no rapture this is men made story,go on the Internet and search ;RAPTURE; look origin of it..
read the bible ,read it ,read it ,with your own eyes.and mind
you have never pester me,there are many things you do not know yet,keep searching for the truth of all things.
your friend Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 27 2010,05:15) Quote (Baker @ Sep. 27 2010,04:01) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 26 2010,20:52) georg so be honest and answer my question;;georg
i am glad you ask ,so who is ;Gods people ?
the Israelite according to the flesh or the ones according to the spirit
Pierre
All people are God's people, the Israelites are God's “chosen” people, which he will never abandon, punish yes, but not abandon.
The ones that you call, according to the spirit, are the chosen once that will rule with Christ in his kingdom; also referred to as the “bride” of Christ; they are from “ALL” nations.Rev 7:9 ¶ After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Georg
georgPr 11:21 Be sure of this: The wicked will not go unpunished,
but those who are righteous will go free.
Pr 16:5 The LORD detests all the proud of heart.
Be sure of this: They will not go unpunished.
Pr 17:5 He who mocks the poor shows contempt for their Maker;
whoever gloats over disaster will not go unpunished.
Pr 19:5 A false witness will not go unpunished,
and he who pours out lies will not go free.
Pr 19:9 A false witness will not go unpunished,
and he who pours out lies will perish.Pr 28:20 A faithful man will be richly blessed,
but one eager to get rich will not go unpunished.Jer 49:12 This is what the LORD says: “If those who do not deserve to drink the cup must drink it, why should you go unpunished? You will not go unpunished, but must drink it.
Na 1:3 The LORD is slow to anger and great in power;
the LORD will not leave the guilty unpunished.
His way is in the whirlwind and the storm,
and clouds are the dust of his feet.
Zec 11:5 Their buyers slaughter them and go unpunished. Those who sell them say, ‘Praise the LORD, I am rich!’ Their own shepherds do not spare them.you see Georg,God as save a few or a rest of Israel wen Jesus came because Christ came to the nation of Israel and so give them the privilege to be the first to be in the kingdom of God and so they came but not enough so God open the door to the gentiles,
and yes god let there sins be unpunished only for the ones who received Christ,this is what Paul says;
Ro 3:25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished
so Israel of today as nothing to do with God s plan it just another nation thats all.
Gods will is fulfilled in the righteous ones the faithful to the word of God,not the enemy of God.
Jas 4:4 You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
1Pe 5:8 Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour
so it is the true faith in Christ redemption that save us all,Jews first,then all others ,this was said almost 2000 years ago,
Israel stopped to exist as a Gods people, after TITUS flatten it in 70 AD.Pierre
Why are you afraid to comment on the scriptures I gave you long time (it seems like a long time) ago, concerning Israel?
Do you know that the destruction of the nation Israel was prophesied? Do you know where?Georg
hi georg
yes i know that the destruction of Israel was foretold, and also the new Jerusalem ,and the remnant that will be saved trough Christ,Ezekiel ,Isaiah,and many of the small Prophets,,
I have check all your scriptures and answer you that all those scriptures are either related to the destruction of Jerusalem by Babylon or the final destruction by Titus,
as for the new Jerusalem ,the new temple in Ezekiel and Daniel,and other small Prophets ,and Isaiah,it is all talking of Christ the heavenly Jerusalem.If you beleive this is not true ,show me the scripture(s)you believe is addressed to the today Jerusalem.and why??it should be.
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 02 2010,11:55) hi georg yes i know that the destruction of Israel was foretold, and also the new Jerusalem ,and the remnant that will be saved trough Christ,Ezekiel ,Isaiah,and many of the small Prophets,,
I have check all your scriptures and answer you that all those scriptures are either related to the destruction of Jerusalem by Babylon or the final destruction by Titus,
as for the new Jerusalem ,the new temple in Ezekiel and Daniel,and other small Prophets ,and Isaiah,it is all talking of Christ the heavenly Jerusalem.If you beleive this is not true ,show me the scripture(s)you believe is addressed to the today Jerusalem.and why??it should be.
Pierre
You ever see how a horse is broken in, a rope around his neck, and made to go around in circle; that's what you're trying to do with me.
You tell me your interested in truth, and then you come on like a $&#@?+!.
I have given you scriptures that show just the opposite from what you claim on Israel; now again, you refuse to comment on them by putting up another smoke screen; If you want me to take you serious, then behave like a man.
I will not put up those scriptures again, you know where they are, and which scriptures they are.Georg
Quote (Baker @ Oct. 03 2010,05:26) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 02 2010,11:55) hi georg yes i know that the destruction of Israel was foretold, and also the new Jerusalem ,and the remnant that will be saved trough Christ,Ezekiel ,Isaiah,and many of the small Prophets,,
I have check all your scriptures and answer you that all those scriptures are either related to the destruction of Jerusalem by Babylon or the final destruction by Titus,
as for the new Jerusalem ,the new temple in Ezekiel and Daniel,and other small Prophets ,and Isaiah,it is all talking of Christ the heavenly Jerusalem.If you beleive this is not true ,show me the scripture(s)you believe is addressed to the today Jerusalem.and why??it should be.
Pierre
You ever see how a horse is broken in, a rope around his neck, and made to go around in circle; that's what you're trying to do with me.
You tell me your interested in truth, and then you come on like a $&#@?+!.
I have given you scriptures that show just the opposite from what you claim on Israel; now again, you refuse to comment on them by putting up another smoke screen; If you want me to take you serious, then behave like a man.
I will not put up those scriptures again, you know where they are, and which scriptures they are.Georg
georgi do not see opportunity here
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 03 2010,02:02) Quote (Baker @ Oct. 03 2010,05:26) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 02 2010,11:55) hi georg yes i know that the destruction of Israel was foretold, and also the new Jerusalem ,and the remnant that will be saved trough Christ,Ezekiel ,Isaiah,and many of the small Prophets,,
I have check all your scriptures and answer you that all those scriptures are either related to the destruction of Jerusalem by Babylon or the final destruction by Titus,
as for the new Jerusalem ,the new temple in Ezekiel and Daniel,and other small Prophets ,and Isaiah,it is all talking of Christ the heavenly Jerusalem.If you beleive this is not true ,show me the scripture(s)you believe is addressed to the today Jerusalem.and why??it should be.
Pierre
You ever see how a horse is broken in, a rope around his neck, and made to go around in circle; that's what you're trying to do with me.
You tell me your interested in truth, and then you come on like a $&#@?+!.
I have given you scriptures that show just the opposite from what you claim on Israel; now again, you refuse to comment on them by putting up another smoke screen; If you want me to take you serious, then behave like a man.
I will not put up those scriptures again, you know where they are, and which scriptures they are.Georg
georgi do not see opportunity here
Pierre
That's because you never were!Georg
georg
in case you decided not to show them again ,this would mean that you still can not explain them to me ,
and are not in harmony of scriptures.
Pierre
georg
you do not answer to ;the fig tree=Israel
the 10 horns = UN this is not so;
the beast that was and is not and then comes again is not ;old UN and then UN
who is the best out of the earth?
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 05 2010,12:14) georg you do not answer to ;the fig tree=Israel
the 10 horns = UN this is not so;
the beast that was and is not and then comes again is not ;old UN and then UN
who is the best out of the earth?
Pierre
Pierre, knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.Georg
Quote (mikeangel @ Sep. 30 2010,13:07) Thank you my friend. We have one thing (at least) in common. I too was baptised as a baby Catholic. And I too had a disagreement with not being immersed. I was immersed in 09 at my wifes church. Like 99% of christians we were baptised in a church. If you feel ok and saved and fulfilled by not going, thats your decision, but IMO if you proclaim that church is wrong an only from men you renounce both the baptisms you recieved. You disclaim yours, and that is your decision…………….. I also did not expect the answer you gave on communion. I expected you just to say “no” about recieving it, but you added one thing that made me truely concerned about you -“no i do not part taking in the heavenly call”, Pierre, I hope you do. Even if you do not remember him like he asked you to if you do not” part taking ” in the Heavenly call (IMO) you will be left behind very soon.For that matter why don't you get some wine or grape juice and unleavaned bread with someone and remember him like he asked you too? Are you so bitter at the church that you even leave behind his request from you? …………….. PS I'm not going to pester you anymore, thanks for answering my questions. Peace
Hi Mark,If you are eluding to 'a rapture', that is a false doctrine!
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 11 2010,18:41) Quote (mikeangel @ Sep. 30 2010,13:07) Thank you my friend. We have one thing (at least) in common. I too was baptised as a baby Catholic. And I too had a disagreement with not being immersed. I was immersed in 09 at my wifes church. Like 99% of christians we were baptised in a church. If you feel ok and saved and fulfilled by not going, thats your decision, but IMO if you proclaim that church is wrong an only from men you renounce both the baptisms you recieved. You disclaim yours, and that is your decision…………….. I also did not expect the answer you gave on communion. I expected you just to say “no” about recieving it, but you added one thing that made me truely concerned about you -“no i do not part taking in the heavenly call”, Pierre, I hope you do. Even if you do not remember him like he asked you to if you do not” part taking ” in the Heavenly call (IMO) you will be left behind very soon.For that matter why don't you get some wine or grape juice and unleavaned bread with someone and remember him like he asked you too? Are you so bitter at the church that you even leave behind his request from you? …………….. PS I'm not going to pester you anymore, thanks for answering my questions. Peace
Hi Mark,If you are eluding to 'a rapture', that is a false doctrine!
Ed, I agree, how about that. Very seldom does that happen…And seldom do I come on here. I am not much for prophecy and know very little of Ancient History, that is my dear Husbands specialty……Peace IreneQuote (Baker @ Oct. 12 2010,01:24) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 05 2010,12:14) georg you do not answer to ;the fig tree=Israel
the 10 horns = UN this is not so;
the beast that was and is not and then comes again is not ;old UN and then UN
who is the best out of the earth?
Pierre
Pierre, knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.Georg
georgwhat you say can be said to any one who would try to talk about revelation ,even the truth can be called that in the eyes of the septic
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 20 2010,09:10) Quote (Baker @ Oct. 12 2010,01:24) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 05 2010,12:14) georg you do not answer to ;the fig tree=Israel
the 10 horns = UN this is not so;
the beast that was and is not and then comes again is not ;old UN and then UN
who is the best out of the earth?
Pierre
Pierre, knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.Georg
georgwhat you say can be said to any one who would try to talk about revelation ,even the truth can be called that in the eyes of the septic
Pierre
Your indoctrination from the JW is hindering you from understanding truth.Georg
Quote (Pastry @ Oct. 26 2010,19:12) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 20 2010,09:10) Quote (Baker @ Oct. 12 2010,01:24) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 05 2010,12:14) georg you do not answer to ;the fig tree=Israel
the 10 horns = UN this is not so;
the beast that was and is not and then comes again is not ;old UN and then UN
who is the best out of the earth?
Pierre
Pierre, knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.Georg
georgwhat you say can be said to any one who would try to talk about revelation ,even the truth can be called that in the eyes of the septic
Pierre
Your indoctrination from the JW is hindering you from understanding truth.Georg
georgthis is 40 years ago;Mike and David are still learn from it some how.
what are you talking about ,I never accepted there version of revelation because it is a quick put together, and similar to what you have showed me.
now if you can show me whats wrong with what i have understood from scriptures ,i be glad to fill the openings.
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 26 2010,14:36) Quote (Pastry @ Oct. 26 2010,19:12) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 20 2010,09:10) Quote (Baker @ Oct. 12 2010,01:24) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 05 2010,12:14) georg you do not answer to ;the fig tree=Israel
the 10 horns = UN this is not so;
the beast that was and is not and then comes again is not ;old UN and then UN
who is the best out of the earth?
Pierre
Pierre, knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.Georg
georgwhat you say can be said to any one who would try to talk about revelation ,even the truth can be called that in the eyes of the septic
Pierre
Your indoctrination from the JW is hindering you from understanding truth.Georg
georgthis is 40 years ago;Mike and David are still learn from it some how.
what are you talking about ,I never accepted there version of revelation because it is a quick put together, and similar to what you have showed me.
now if you can show me whats wrong with what i have understood from scriptures ,i be glad to fill the openings.
Pierre
Have you ever tried to become a comedian?
Georg
Quote (before Time @ Aug. 11 2008,06:50) Greeting…to all Who or what is the beast of Revelation? Coming to some considerations it would serve good to uncover some clues who this monster is lingering inside a most symbolic dynamic book.
There are two views on the writing of Revelation by John, possible John the Apostle. The late date view is the most popular and the early date running not far behind.
Was the volume addressed to the first century audience or a future generation in some time or place, or to both?
What was the intention of its writing given by God to show his servant John?
Finally, what is the theme of the manuscript?
I consider after these questions are addressed the beast will not be veiled under a dark cloud of assumption …. Or will it.
Before Time
Hello, I am new here.You guys have so much knowledge. I am amazed with joy. I have just come from the desert. It was very dry. There is more flowing water here.
Sorry if you've answered your own question already. I havn't read all the replys, but I have a feeling I can learn of you guys too.
Anyway here goes, my two cents worth.
First of all you asked what does the beast mean in revelations? Which Beast? There are two.
The first beast that rises in Rev ch13, is coming out of the sea. Sea represents peoples, multitudes, nations. This beast has 7 heads and 10 horns, and 10 crowns. I do not see these horns scattered on all the heads, just all of them on one head. The last head.
I believe the answer is in Daniel. The image. 7 major empires through God's eyes.
the image starts from
1. Babylon (the head)
2. Medo-Persia
3. Grecian
4. Roman
5. New empire coming (consisting of 10 kings)And the two empires that existed before Babylon
1. Egypt
2. Assyria (or Syria?) please correct meThis makes 7 empires.
During the days of the last empire (10 toes/10 kings) another kingdom will arise (the 8th)So this beast rising out of the sea, is all the empires from beginning to last (end days) and this last empire consisting of 10 kings is the New World Order that is coming. (The new system) This system is powerful, and has one motive..to have a one world leader. This empire consists of 10 nations, combining all their armies and power and economy. I believe the false prophet is the king of the north. And Europe will be their headquarters. Because Europe is North of Jerusalem, and they didn't use ne, or nw in those days.
Shortly after these kings establish, another beast arises, but out of the earth. This king is earth born. He doesn't come out of peoples, but comes out of the earth. He is born a man. A King. Not inherited it. I believe this is the little horn spoken of in Daniel, and he is the false prophet.
So the first beast is a new world system and gives power to the false prophet…Elects him as leader and is the man power (army) behind all his decisions. The 10 kings execute his power by punishing and killing any one that does not comply to their new leader's rules.
This new leader is the false prophet, God never calls him the antichrist, and this man has to horns resembling that he is secular and spiritual. He is a world leader, and a false prophet. He is the one that carries out all the decieving wonders, and speaks dark sentences, and even makes fire come down from heaven. So he is performing all the miracles to decieve the multitudes, and he is ruling the world at the same time.
Many christians believe that this man is the devil, but untrue, because the devil has chosen him to execute his plan. The devil is behind him all the way, giving this man all his power. This man actually thinks that he is God because of his powers.
I think this man could possibly be in fact Satan's son. But that is my own thoughts, because he is called the Son of Perdition and Satan likes to copy everything God does, but for bad intentions, but just speculation here.
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