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Nero was known for burning of Christians on stakes to light up the road to the coliseum. He also sported throwing the Christians to Lion for the joy of satisfying his insane desires. Read the history of Nero and there you will find the beast of Revelation.
Rev 13:18 This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.
Rev 17:9 “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.
10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while.
The “one who is” in the reference is the sixth king Nero who was alive when John wrote his letter to the then living churches. It was for their benefit in the great tribulation.
John increased their near expectation from their sufferings with this letter of encouragement.
Rev 1:3 Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.
That is the seven churches under trial.
Rev 1:11 which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.”
Who endured the great tribulation!
Rev 1:9 I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.
BT
Hi BT,
Did you think that when John wrote this he was indicating that he would go through the great tribulation?
Rev1
9I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.No .
We all must enter through tribulations.Acts 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;Romans 8:35
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Romans 8:34-36 (in Context) Romans 8 (Whole Chapter)
Romans 12:12
Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;
Romans 12:11-13 (in Context) Romans 12 (Whole Chapter)
2 Corinthians 1:4
Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.2 Corinthians 7:4
Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my glorying of you: I am filled with comfort, I am exceeding joyful in all our tribulation.
)
Ephesians 3:13
Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.1 Thessalonians 3:4
For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.2 Thessalonians 1:4
So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:Suffering is good for us.
Philippians 3:10
That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;James 5:10
Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.Hi Nick
Yes, all those verses presented were for the benefit of Christians going through tribulation from Jews and later served as help from the Roman onslaught in their lifetime. Nevertheless, their purpose was to help keep the early Christians faithful throughout trials.
For example, why would James inform the faithful to be patient if what they experienced was for Christians thousands or more years later?
What good would the letter do for them? Were James and Paul giving those brothers a false hope?
James 5:8 You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near.
And I agree Nick suffering is good for producing excellent qualities and has a humbling effect. Yet don’t we pray for release from distress when experiencing the same trials. Or any trial!
The point is those letters were written to Christians then but the same principles and warnings apply to us who read their experiences and how God dealt with them.
God through Holy Spirit used the experience of the Old prophets before Christ first advent to help those Christians and us to endure to the end.
James 5:10 Brothers, as an example of patience in the face of suffering, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord.
1 Cor 10:11These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.
I believe time text “soon at hand near etc” and pronouns, “you, us etc” will keep us safe when reading scripture and getting the right essence.
BT
Greetings, to whom it may concern!
Rev. 17:10, the seven heads on that beast represent the seven empires of the bible, they do not referr to individual rulers.
Horns on the head of the beast referr to kings/rulers.
The five that are fallen, were the five empires before Rome.
The Roman empire was the one “that is”.
The one who was yet to come, seventh head/government, was the “League of Nation”, was made up of many kings, Rev. 17:12,13.
It lasted only a short time, from 1918-1946.
Out of it came the eighth, the “United Nation”, v. 11.glad I could help,
Georg
Hi BT,
All men in Christ must be patient.
It is a fruit of the Spiritual grace of God.
2 or 3 days [1000yrs] is soon enough for his return.The Sabbath day of rest is imminent.
To All
Here is another scenario. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.” (17:9) Rome was known in ancient times as the city on seven hills (Septimontium). I believe these are the know hills to those who read Revelation that John referred to.
The “one who is” was Nero the sixth in line of the Caesars. The one who ruled for a short time was Servius Sulpicius Galba (Galba.
The beast is communicated in generic and specific terms. In other words the Generic kingdoms and specific the kings who ruled them.
17:10 The seven heads are also seven kings.
1.Julius Caesar (Caesar) B.C. 49 to B.C. 44
2.Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus (Augustus) to B.C. 31 to August 19, A.D. 14
3.Tiberius Caesar Augustus (Tiberius) A.D. 14 to March 16 A.D. 37
4.Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus Germanicus (Caligula) A.D. 37 to January 24, A.D. 41
5.Tiberius Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus (Claudius) January 24, A.D. 41 to October 13 A.D. 54
6.Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus (Nero) October 13, A.D. 54 to June 9, A.D. 68
7.Servius Sulpicius Galba (Galba) June 8, A.D. 68 to January 15, A.D. 69Five of the Roman emperors had fallen and Revelation was written while the one who is (Nero) was still reigning.
Those the faithful who first read and heard the reading of the book were the seven Churches in Asia. Rev. 1:10 They would understand the idioms, and it would serve as a benefit to them. Rev. 1:3
I find it hard to believe why John would pen a letter to brothers under persecution about the League of Nation, and latter the United Nations. Besides, did John know about this 2000-year or more prophecy?
It is my estimation the Christians who read and heard the letter would be reading something they didn't comprehend if we catapult Revelation to future events. John would be manufacturing a mockery of those poor souls.
BT
Quote (Tiffany @ Oct. 27 2008,02:43) Greetings, to whom it may concern! Rev. 17:10, the seven heads on that beast represent the seven empires of the bible, they do not referr to individual rulers.
Horns on the head of the beast referr to kings/rulers.
The five that are fallen, were the five empires before Rome.
The Roman empire was the one “that is”.
The one who was yet to come, seventh head/government, was the “League of Nation”, was made up of many kings, Rev. 17:12,13.
It lasted only a short time, from 1918-1946.
Out of it came the eighth, the “United Nation”, v. 11.glad I could help,
Georg
Greetings Georg…..Hope you are feeling better…I love these kind of forums, I learn so much…all though, I find myself in the company of interlectual vandals…the arguments presented are convincing and masterfully delivered….with written proof I might add….you offer a refreshing alternative….Hi bT
How to you come to select these 7 emperors from all that have ruled.
Rome had its beginning hundreds of years before Christ; the western leg lasted till 565 AD, while the eastern leg lasted till the middle of the 15th Century.
How many emperors were there all together? and you pick these seven to fit the scripture?
How do you make seven hills out of seven heads?
Have you ever heard the term, “mountain” in reference to kingdom?
The seven heads in Rev. 17:3 are the same heads you see in Rev. 12:3, and in Rev. 13:1.
However, the horns and crowns have different meanings.
Rev. 17:8 says, the beast that you saw, was, and was not, and then suddenly appeared out of the bottomless pit. How do you explain that?
Also, one of the heads was deadly wounded, and then healed, Rev. 13:3; which of the seven heads do you suggest is the one? Or are you saying the seven heads on the three beast are all different?Georg
Ps. thank you theodorej, I'm doing fine.
Hi Georg
I may have jumped around a little answering some of your question georg. Try to be patient as you examine them if you care to do so. Also I provided some of my own questions in my prior post and so far they have gone unanswered. I would like to see your take on them! Some background is added as I went along on my understanding, which I feel is not the last word on the subject.
Matthew, Mark and Luke provide their message of the Olivet discourse; the Book of Revelation is John’s account. The Theme of the manuscript is in Rev. 1:7. “Look he is coming with the clouds”
In my estimation it means in Judgment of Jews as a Nation in a Covenantal relationship with God. This was fulfilled by God using the Roman armies and their cronies. The same verbal communication is stressed in Isa 19:1 where Jehovah comes on a cloud in Judgment.
The reason for the Judgment and vengeance (Luke 21:22) is as follows. Matthew Chapter 23. The ones who pierced him were responsible for the Lord’s death and the slaughter of all the prophets God sent. Matthew chapter 23
The focus of the events in Revelation was the Roman armies by the decree of Nero up and until destruction of the temple in AD 70.
Julius Caesar was the first emperor of Rome and that he was followed in succession by Augustus, Tiberius, Caius, Claudius, and, sixthly, Nero. Christ communicated the Roman Ceaser.s literally as did John symbolically.
Just some considerations! Satan sought after the Christian community at its birth pangs, (Matthew 24:8) to destroy the growth of God’s spiritual temple. But Satan is bound from doing so even though he goes around like (Beast) or roaring lion. The Hebrews had no numerals system and used letters to signify numbers. Rev.13:18 Try to calculate the number? 666
“It was not unusual to attribute many heads to monsters, especially to fabulous monsters, and these greatly increased the terror of the animal.”
Who was the women in Rev. 12:1, 2; 17; 9 and Gal.4:25. Is she the one who sits on seven hills?
BT
Hi Georg
I kind of jotted down everything real quick and I apologize for your misunderstanding. I’m laying down some frame work on the letter of Revelation together with my thought on the beast.
The focal point of our conversation is the beast of Revelation. The monsters identity and animalistic characteristics are mentioned in the letter.
The first century Christian were blessed by what they read and heard. There was going to be an event in their lifetime to end their sufferings. And as John said the time was near!
Rev 1:3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near.
The letter was written specifically to the seven Churches in the territory of Asia.
Rev 1:4 John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia: Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne,
The Theme of our letter is the Lord Jesus is coming with the clouds.
Rev 1:7 Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.
The Lord’s intention was to keep the suffering brothers faithful and giving them encouragement through his servant John until that event mentioned.
Rev 1:9 I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.
The suffering they were experiencing was from the Jewish community and especially from our friend the beast. Nero (Nero Claudius Caesar), A.D. 37-A.D. 68, Roman emperor (A.D. 54-A.D. 68)
“When half of Rome was burned in a fire (A.D. 64), Nero accused the Christians of starting it and began the first Roman persecution.”
Oh well I hope I didn’t confuse you again.
BT
Hi bT
I appreciate your effort, trying to clear things up.
The seven letters were written to the seven churches in Asia Minor pointing out what Jesus saw wrong with them, but as far as the rest of the book of Revelation, it revealed future events, far into the future, and is a blessing to all to day who reads it, and heeds it.
You have brought up so many points in your last post, it would take me forever to address them all.
I would like to suggest to you to check out my book “Understanding Truth”, it is very detailed on all the things you mentioned, and more.
It is available at, http://www.Xlibris.com, http://www.bn.com, http://www.borders.com, or http://www.amazon.com.
Below is the content list of all the subjects that I cover.C O N T E N T S
FORWORD
1 WHAT IS WRONG HERE?
2 THE EARTH
3 WHO IS GOD?
4 WHO IS JESUS?
5 HEAVEN and HELL
6 THE RAPTURE
7 LEFT BEHIND
8 LAZARUS AND THE RICH MAN
9 DID ENOCH DIE?
10 MELCHIZ’EDEK
11 THE BOOK OF DANIEL
12 TERTULLIAN
13 ISRAEL
14 THE BEASTS-THE HEADS-THE HORNS
15 ANTICHRIST
16 NAPOLEON IN PROPHECEY
17 THE SEVENTH HEAD
18 THE SEVEN SEALS
19 THE SEVEN TRUMPETS AND SEVEN BOWLS
20 THE 144000
21 THE TWO WOMEN
22 THE TWO WITNESSES
23 THE DAY OF THE LORD
24 THE TEMPLE
25 THE THREE TYPES OF SONS
26 THE ROMAN UNIVERSAL CHURCH
27 FINAL WORDGeorg
Quote (Tiffany @ Oct. 29 2008,22:09) Hi bT I appreciate your effort, trying to clear things up.
The seven letters were written to the seven churches in Asia Minor pointing out what Jesus saw wrong with them, but as far as the rest of the book of Revelation, it revealed future events, far into the future, and is a blessing to all to day who reads it, and heeds it.
You have brought up so many points in your last post, it would take me forever to address them all.
I would like to suggest to you to check out my book “Understanding Truth”, it is very detailed on all the things you mentioned, and more.
It is available at, http://www.Xlibris.com, http://www.bn.com, http://www.borders.com, or http://www.amazon.com.
Below is the content list of all the subjects that I cover.C O N T E N T S
FORWORD
1 WHAT IS WRONG HERE?
2 THE EARTH
3 WHO IS GOD?
4 WHO IS JESUS?
5 HEAVEN and HELL
6 THE RAPTURE
7 LEFT BEHIND
8 LAZARUS AND THE RICH MAN
9 DID ENOCH DIE?
10 MELCHIZ’EDEK
11 THE BOOK OF DANIEL
12 TERTULLIAN
13 ISRAEL
14 THE BEASTS-THE HEADS-THE HORNS
15 ANTICHRIST
16 NAPOLEON IN PROPHECEY
17 THE SEVENTH HEAD
18 THE SEVEN SEALS
19 THE SEVEN TRUMPETS AND SEVEN BOWLS
20 THE 144000
21 THE TWO WOMEN
22 THE TWO WITNESSES
23 THE DAY OF THE LORD
24 THE TEMPLE
25 THE THREE TYPES OF SONS
26 THE ROMAN UNIVERSAL CHURCH
27 FINAL WORDGeorg
Greetings Georg……Iam very much interested in knowing where I can get a copy of your book….eg ISBN #Hi theodorej
It is available at, http://www.Xlibris.com, http://www.bn.com, http://www.borders.com, or http://www.amazon.com.
I guess you missed it, its on the bottom of my last post.
The ISBN numbers are:
Hardcover ISBN: 978-1-4363-5133-1
Softcover ISBN: 978-1-4363-5132-4Georg
Hi Georg
I’ll let you of the hook this time. Just kidding! It’s been delightful chatting with you and thanks for taking the time to do so. Uphold the fine work, Jehovah and Jesus appreciate the good you do more than anyone in the universe.
BT
all
what are the beasts in Daniel have in common with revelation beasts ?
if there is no answer i will not pose the next question.
this has nothing to do with Georg book or main Chrsitian stream believes.
PierreQuote (terraricca @ Sep. 14 2010,23:10) all what are the beasts in Daniel have in common with revelation beasts ?
if there is no answer i will not pose the next question.
this has nothing to do with Georg book or main Chrsitian stream believes.
Pierre
alli have ask my question to broad;so here it is again;;
what is there different about in the 4 beasts of Daniel,and the 2 beasts in revelation. the dragon is not in my question.
and i do not ask the question about there shape or details looks.Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 14 2010,16:10) all what are the beasts in Daniel have in common with revelation beasts ?
if there is no answer i will not pose the next question.
this has nothing to do with Georg book or main Chrsitian stream believes.
Pierre
Hello PierreIts your old friend Georg again. I know you don't want me to answer, but, I'm not busy right now.
Rev 13:1 ¶ And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
This beast, the Roman beast, being made up from parts of the previous three beasts (mentioned in Dan. 7), shows that it was as bad as the three before it put together.
The seven heads on all “three” beasts, Rev. 12; Rev. 13; and Rev. 17; represent the seven empires of the Bible.
The Dragon/Devil, in Rev. 12, shows that he is the power behind “all” man made kingdoms/governments; that he has used every kingdom to destroy God's plan for mankind.Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Three of the four beasts/kings of Dan. 7, are among the once that had already fallen, the one that “is”, was Rome.
Why would you mention my book, no one here has read it.
But you're right, this has nothing to do with “mainstream” Christianity, it has to do with truth, and understanding.Georg
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