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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 21 2010,06:02) Thanks, Gene! I'm confused by your wording, though. Don't you believe the Word was Jesus?
Mikeboil……….I read John as written, I don't Change words in the text to force it to say what the author, (JOHN) wrote, this is what TRINITARIANS do. If something does not say what they want it to, they simply change its meanings to fit their false doctrines, forcing the text is deception at work.This is what John said ” IN (THE) BEGINNING (of all things) WAS (GOD) AND THE WORD (OF GOD) WAS WITH GOD AND THE WORD WAS GOD. Just except just as written we don't need to change anything. What it say is right as written GOD and HIS WORD ARE ONE and THE SAME THING.
Now lets ask ourself what a (WORD) is < Is it a speprate inity from a Person (NO) a WORD is the very (EXPRESSION) of the Preson HIMSELF. It is one and the same thin as the Person Himself < Just as your words are one and the same thing you are, and in this case it is very GOD HIMSELF. NOT some one else.
So does that make Jesus that word because HE SPOKE GODS WORDS TO US, (NO) NO MORE THAN IT WOULD MAKE YOU THE WORD IF YOU SPOKE THEM. But some say Jesus was those words< O really then why did Jesus say the words He spoke to us were " NOT HIS WORDS" if HE WERE THE WORD, that was GOD. Jesus did indeed speak (GOD'S) words to us. But GOD also spoke through the Prophets (HIS WORDS) also. God is SPIRIT and can (INDWELL) US and Speak through US, Just as He did Jesus and the Prophets. But none of that would make Us a GOD nor does it make Jesus a GOD either.
GOD WAS IN JESUS BY THE WORDS (expressed intellect of one GOD) The FATHER was (IN) Him through HIS (GODS) WORDS> Jesus simply related those WORD to US. You and I can do the same thing if His Words abide in YOU as they were also in Jesus.
You can not separate GOD and His WORDS, No more then you could be separated from YOUR WORDS Neither can GOD be separated from HIS Word. HE (IS) HIS WORD.
Simple logic should tell us that if John was intending Jesus to be there he simply would have written it. That alone should cause doubt about the TRINITARIAN false assumptions of Jesus being a GOD.
In conclusion, NO I DO NOT THINK THE WORD WAS JESUS, I THINK JESUS SPOKE GOD THE FATHERS WORDS TO US, AS GOD REVEALED THEM TO HIM. While Jesus represented GOD the father to us and gave the fathers WORDS, that again in no way makes him the WORD He spoke, because those words were (NOT HIS) as HE SAID, Believe what Jesus himself said. IMO
Gene said:
Quote In conclusion, NO I DO NOT THINK THE WORD WAS JESUS, I THINK JESUS SPOKE GOD THE FATHERS WORDS TO US, AS GOD REVEALED THEM TO HIM. While Jesus represented GOD the father to us and gave the fathers WORDS, that again in no way makes him the WORD He spoke, because those words were (NOT HIS) as HE SAID, Believe what Jesus himself said. IMO Gene,
Verse 14 says that the Word is the “only begotten of the Father.” Is not the “only begotten of the Father” Jesus?
Major premise: The Word is the “only begotten of the Father.”
Minor premise: The “only begotten of the Father is Jesus.”
Conclusion: Therefore, the Word is JesusGo to school Gene and take courses in reading comprehension and in biblical exegesis.
thinker
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 21 2010,13:02) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 21 2010,06:02) Thanks, Gene! I'm confused by your wording, though. Don't you believe the Word was Jesus?
Mikeboil……….I read John as written, I don't Change words in the text to force it to say what the author, (JOHN) wrote, this is what TRINITARIANS do. If something does not say what they want it to, they simply change its meanings to fit their false doctrines, forcing the text is deception at work.This is what John said ” IN (THE) BEGINNING (of all things) WAS (GOD) AND THE WORD (OF GOD) WAS WITH GOD AND THE WORD WAS GOD. Just except just as written we don't need to change anything. What it say is right as written GOD and HIS WORD ARE ONE and THE SAME THING.
Now lets ask ourself what a (WORD) is < Is it a speprate inity from a Person (NO) a WORD is the very (EXPRESSION) of the Preson HIMSELF. It is one and the same thin as the Person Himself < Just as your words are one and the same thing you are, and in this case it is very GOD HIMSELF. NOT some one else.
IMO
Hi Gene,Both me and you receive a LOT of flak for believing this “Bible Truth”!
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (thethinker @ Feb. 21 2010,14:21) Gene said: Quote In conclusion, NO I DO NOT THINK THE WORD WAS JESUS, I THINK JESUS SPOKE GOD THE FATHERS WORDS TO US, AS GOD REVEALED THEM TO HIM. While Jesus represented GOD the father to us and gave the fathers WORDS, that again in no way makes him the WORD He spoke, because those words were (NOT HIS) as HE SAID, Believe what Jesus himself said. IMO Gene,
Verse 14 says that the Word is the “only begotten of the Father.” Is not the “only begotten of the Father” Jesus?
Major premise: The Word is the “only begotten of the Father.”
Minor premise: The “only begotten of the Father is Jesus.”
Conclusion: Therefore, the Word is JesusGo to school Gene and take courses in reading comprehension and in biblical exegesis.
thinker
Hi TT.Seems your college logic is a bit FLAWED!
Major premise: The U.S.A bombed Hiroshima
Minor premise: The bombardier bombed Hiroshima
Conclusion: Therefore, The bombardier is the U.S.A.?Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 20 2010,19:08) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 21 2010,03:20) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 20 2010,03:26) Hi T8, Isn't it funny how they keep arguing over the same garbage
over and over and over again and again and again.
EdIt doesn't get any circular than this!
How many times have we seen you post the “Exact same numbers” and making the same points over and over again on this board!
You speak to t8 like he or you do not particpate in the arguments!
Do you see your bias to the truth?
I think it is funny how you guys avoid the points we make like show me how the word “Worship” in scripture has a different meaning for the Father and Jesus.
Or show us one NT example of any other recieving this worship!
Instead of engaging just make ridiculous claims and patronize!
WEAK!!!
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ,Both You and TT complain how people don't respond to points that you guys make.
And that is exactly what both of you guys have done with my last Post (no numbers).
See a similar pattern here? Think about it. There are a lot of threads and just because
you guys scan them all doesn't mean new people do. It's not all about you,
try to remember that before you put yourself in the judgment seat. (Ezek.28:2,9)God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EdYou are the one that made the silly comment to t8 which was totally circular.
Most everyone here has been making the same points with variations, some for years.
My point is you are no different. I have already replied to your points about the Holy Spirit being the Father and the Holy Spirit also being the Word, which is a total wack job on the scriptures.
So rather than accusing and condemning which seems to be the order of the day for you guys, why don't you engage the points.
Check it out. Much of what we have to waste our time on is responding to your accusations and condemnation!
Then you have the nerve to say I am judging. Read your own post with an open mind and see who does the critisizing!
Blessings WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 21 2010,18:48) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 20 2010,19:08) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 21 2010,03:20) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 20 2010,03:26) Hi T8, Isn't it funny how they keep arguing over the same garbage
over and over and over again and again and again.
EdIt doesn't get any circular than this!
How many times have we seen you post the “Exact same numbers” and making the same points over and over again on this board!
You speak to t8 like he or you do not particpate in the arguments!
Do you see your bias to the truth?
I think it is funny how you guys avoid the points we make like show me how the word “Worship” in scripture has a different meaning for the Father and Jesus.
Or show us one NT example of any other recieving this worship!
Instead of engaging just make ridiculous claims and patronize!
WEAK!!!
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ,Both You and TT complain how people don't respond to points that you guys make.
And that is exactly what both of you guys have done with my last Post (no numbers).
See a similar pattern here? Think about it. There are a lot of threads and just because
you guys scan them all doesn't mean new people do. It's not all about you,
try to remember that before you put yourself in the judgment seat. (Ezek.28:2,9)God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EdYou are the one that made the silly comment to t8 which was totally circular.
Most everyone here has been making the same points with variations, some for years.
My point is you are no different. I have already replied to your points about the Holy Spirit being the Father and the Holy Spirit also being the Word, which is a total wack job on the scriptures.
So rather than accusing and condemning which seems to be the order of the day for you guys, why don't you engage the points.
Check it out. Much of what we have to waste our time on is responding to your accusations and condemnation!
Then you have the nerve to say I am judging. Read your own post with an open mind and see who does the critisizing!
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ,Shouldn't we all strive for agreement? Isn't that what discussions are suppose to be about?
I've been patiently waiting to discuss this matter with you on a new thread I started!
I have even re-Posted my First question to you, which you have yet to address.Third Post down Click Here <– Let's begin right NOW!
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2010,14:48) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 21 2010,14:21) Gene said: Quote In conclusion, NO I DO NOT THINK THE WORD WAS JESUS, I THINK JESUS SPOKE GOD THE FATHERS WORDS TO US, AS GOD REVEALED THEM TO HIM. While Jesus represented GOD the father to us and gave the fathers WORDS, that again in no way makes him the WORD He spoke, because those words were (NOT HIS) as HE SAID, Believe what Jesus himself said. IMO Gene,
Verse 14 says that the Word is the “only begotten of the Father.” Is not the “only begotten of the Father” Jesus?
Major premise: The Word is the “only begotten of the Father.”
Minor premise: The “only begotten of the Father is Jesus.”
Conclusion: Therefore, the Word is JesusGo to school Gene and take courses in reading comprehension and in biblical exegesis.
thinker
Hi TT.Seems your college logic is a bit FLAWED!
Major premise: The U.S.A bombed Hiroshima
Minor premise: The bombardier bombed Hiroshima
Conclusion: Therefore, The bombardier is the U.S.A.?Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
ED J,What!
What does the bombing of Hiroshima have to do with anything?
Verse 14 says that the Word is the “only begotten of the Father.” Jesus was the “only begotten.” Therefore, Jesus was the Word.
You can't be for real dude!
thinker
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 21 2010,05:54) mikeboll64…………You have it right. they try to make a case from just One word even if it is against the over all scriptures and in some case not even the word used in the sentence structure as for instance they say the word (WORD) in John 1:1 Means Jesus, not even reasoning that if that is what John Meant He would have Just simply wrote Jesus in there. I mean even this simple logic does not cause them concern. It is true that GOD has sent a Strong DELUSION in order for them to believe a LIE. ( that lie is Jesus is GOD HIMSELF)> IMO Peace and love to you and yours………………….gene
Hi Gene,WOW, that' the same thing you do against “Free Will”!
Aren't these patterns common around here!God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2010,11:36) Hi MikeBoll64, TT didn't even bother to read my two Posts to him on the same thread: First PAGE located at bottom of the page…
Forum » BELIEVERS PLACE » Scripture & Biblical Doctrine » God is the testator, jesus is the testator
Hi Ed,I think they read them, but have no logical answer. So they just scroll around until they find another spot to start the same arguments again. I'm new here and not judging anyone else, but I think it would be of benefit to us all if we could continue a certain point until it is resolved.
peace and love
mikeQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 21 2010,13:02) In conclusion, NO I DO NOT THINK THE WORD WAS JESUS, I THINK JESUS SPOKE GOD THE FATHERS WORDS TO US, AS GOD REVEALED THEM TO HIM. While Jesus represented GOD the father to us and gave the fathers WORDS, that again in no way makes him the WORD He spoke, because those words were (NOT HIS) as HE SAID, Believe what Jesus himself said. IMO
Hi Gene,Don't take this wrong, but how do you explain the Word becoming flesh. I've always thought (my understanding of John – no one elses) that the Word was Jesus before he was known as Jesus. And I think that since the Word was “with” God, it can't at the same time “be” God. I read the last part of 1:1 as, “and the Word was a god.”
Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 21 2010,21:13) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 21 2010,14:48) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 21 2010,14:21) Gene said: Quote In conclusion, NO I DO NOT THINK THE WORD WAS JESUS, I THINK JESUS SPOKE GOD THE FATHERS WORDS TO US, AS GOD REVEALED THEM TO HIM. While Jesus represented GOD the father to us and gave the fathers WORDS, that again in no way makes him the WORD He spoke, because those words were (NOT HIS) as HE SAID, Believe what Jesus himself said. IMO Gene,
Verse 14 says that the Word is the “only begotten of the Father.” Is not the “only begotten of the Father” Jesus?
Major premise: The Word is the “only begotten of the Father.”
Minor premise: The “only begotten of the Father is Jesus.”
Conclusion: Therefore, the Word is JesusGo to school Gene and take courses in reading comprehension and in biblical exegesis.
thinker
Hi TT.Seems your college logic is a bit FLAWED!
Major premise: The U.S.A bombed Hiroshima
Minor premise: The bombardier bombed Hiroshima
Conclusion: Therefore, The bombardier is the U.S.A.?Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
ED J,What!
What does the bombing of Hirishima have to do with anything?
Verse 14 says that the Word is the “only begotten of the Father.” Jesus was the “only begotten.” Therefore, Jesus was the Word.
You can't be for real dude!
thinker
Hi TT,John 1:14 And the Word (Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20) was made flesh (Matt.3:16 / Hebrews 7:28), and dwelt among us (Luke 4:14),
(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
These verses inserted into the text: makes “The Bible” make perfect sense, with NO contradictions!Now the parable is this: “The seed” is “the word“ of God. (Luke 8:5-11)
You seem to have a LOT of trouble “Connecting ALL the Dots”; don't you?
The “HolySpirit” is: The Word of God!Hebrews 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but
the word(HolySpirit) of the oath(Isaiah 7:14), which was since the law,
maketh the Son(Jesus Christ), who is consecrated for evermore.Acts:12:24: But the word of God grew and multiplied.
NOW, I will ask you a simple question (which I already know you will NOT answer): Did Jesus grow and multiply?
The answer is NO; because It's The “HolySpirit” that grew and multiplied and you DON'T LIKE THAT “BIBLE TRUTH”=117!The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.God Bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 21 2010,04:41) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 21 2010,03:20) I think it is funny how you guys avoid the points we make like show me how the word “Worship” in scripture has a different meaning for the Father and Jesus.
Hey Keith,I think the same thing about you, tt and ca.
Every time I show you what you ask, you act like you skipped right over my post and start responding to other ones.
So, aside from showing you different definitions of “worship”, I also posed a question: Do you think the people who worshipped Jesus thought he was God Almighty?
Hi MikeBoll,I'm glad you too have noticed this pattern!
Gog bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 22 2010,04:44) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 21 2010,04:41) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 21 2010,03:20) I think it is funny how you guys avoid the points we make like show me how the word “Worship” in scripture has a different meaning for the Father and Jesus.
Hey Keith,I think the same thing about you, tt and ca.
Every time I show you what you ask, you act like you skipped right over my post and start responding to other ones.
So, aside from showing you different definitions of “worship”, I also posed a question: Do you think the people who worshipped Jesus thought he was God Almighty?
Hi MikeBoll,I'm glad you too have noticed this pattern!
Gog bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EdYes there is agreement with the anti-Trinitarians!
But, if you noticed I adressed Mikes point when I addressed his post!
WJ
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 22 2010,00:46) Now the parable is this: “The seed” is “the word” of God. (Luke 8:5-11)
You seem to have a LOT of trouble “Connecting ALL the Dots”; don't you?
EdThe problem you have in connecting the dots here is John 1:1c doesn't say “The Word of God was God”.
Is God his own spoken word?
John 1:1c says “The Word was God”. The ltteral rendering is “God was the Word”.
The other problem you have is John 1:1b says “The Word was with God”.
So John was not implying that he (God) was with himself!
John 1:14 clearly shows that the “Word” that was with God came in the likeness of sinful flesh! 1 John 1:1-3, Phil 2:6-8 Thats connecting the dots correctly!
Click here for an excellent exegesis on John 1:1.
Blessings WJ
ED J said:
Quote John 1:14 And the Word (Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20) was made flesh (Matt.3:16 / Hebrews 7:28), and dwelt among us (Luke 4:14),
(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
These verses inserted into the text: makes “The Bible” make perfect sense, with NO contradictions!ED J,
Are you suggesting that the Word appeared to men and that they “beheld” Him and that He was not Jesus?
Who was this “Word” whom they “beheld.”
thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 23 2010,03:53) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 22 2010,00:46) Now the parable is this: “The seed” is “the word” of God. (Luke 8:5-11)
You seem to have a LOT of trouble “Connecting ALL the Dots”; don't you?
EdThe problem you have in connecting the dots here is John 1:1c doesn't say “The Word of God was God”.
1) Is God his own spoken word?
John 1:1c says “The Word was God”. The ltteral rendering is “God was the Word”.
The other problem you have is John 1:1b says “The Word was with God”.
So John was not implying that he (God) was with himself!
John 1:14 clearly shows that the “Word” that was with God came in the likeness of sinful flesh! 1 John 1:1-3, Phil 2:6-8 Thats connecting the dots correctly!
2) Click here for an excellent exegesis on John 1:1.
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ,You usually “don't” just skip over PROVEN points you don't like, which is TT's pattern.
1) Are you your own spoken word?
Certainty can't be anybody else!2) The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.These verses are ALL very similar in their content. I will use them to connect the dots for you…
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word(HolySpirit),
and the Word(HolySpirit) was with God,
and the Word(HolySpirit) was God.They are together, and they go together; please consider…
Acts:4:31: And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together;
and they were all filled with the “HolySpirit“, and they spake “the word” of God with boldness.
Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the HolySpirit fell on all them which heard the word.
Acts:11:15: And as I began to speak, the HolySpirit fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Acts:6:7: And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly…
Did Jesus increase? The HolySpirit increased in the People! Why is this SOOO hard for you to get?Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (thethinker @ Feb. 23 2010,05:30) ED J said: Quote John 1:14 And the Word (Matt.1:18 / Matt.1:20) was made flesh (Matt.3:16 / Hebrews 7:28), and dwelt among us (Luke 4:14),
(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
These verses inserted into the text: makes “The Bible” make perfect sense, with NO contradictions!ED J,
Are you suggesting that the Word appeared to men and that they “beheld” Him and that He was not Jesus?
Who was this “Word” whom they “beheld.”
thinker
Hi TT,“The Word” is: HolySpirit, “GOD: The Father” of Jesus Christ! Click Here
John 14:9: Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip?
he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi WJ,
Sorry about my comment about you not responding. I overlooked it until I saw your post yesterday.
You said:
Quote They knew who he was and understood his claims of equality with the Father and that the Term “Son of God” meant Divinity! Agreed, Jesus is divine. But how do you think they knew he was equal with God? It certainly wasn't from comments like, “the Father is greater” or “the Son can do nothing by himself” or “I'm going to your God and my God”, etc.
You say:
Quote The Hebrew never referred to the Father as their “OWN” Father. They considered that blasphemy and that he was making himself equal to God! Not according to John 8:41.
Quote “We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.” I have heard the “making himself equal to God” argument before, but it doesn't hold up. For starters, the first time the Jews were going to stone Jesus is after a heated debate ending in the famous “I am” comment, which maybe you and I can discuss sometime. (Hint: The “I am” thing doesn't even work for Trinitarians, because if the Son was saying he was the Father, then there are only two in your Godhead.)
But look at the second time they went to stone him.
Quote 30 I and the Father are one.” 31 Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33 “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
It's the “I and the Father are one” comment that sets the Jews off. It can't be because he said he was God's son, the Jews had already said that about themselves. And look at Jesus' answer to them:
Quote 34Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'[e]? 35If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? He corrects the mistaken Jews by saying in effect, “Even though God himself has called men of God “gods”, I didn't say I was God, or even “a god”, only God's son.” If Jesus had somehow tried to imply he was God, he wouldn't have asked, “Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy?”, because he would have indeed been guilty of it.
You said:
Quote What other mere man claims he came down from heaven? Weren't they expecting the Messiah? Where do you think they expected him to come from?
You said:
Quote What other mere man can claim unless you eat “MY Flesh” and drink “MY Blood” you have no life in you? None but the Messiah -God's son Jesus.
You said:
Quote To be in Jesus presence even in the flesh was an awsome and reverent thing. Agreed. I wish I would have been there when he was on earth.
You said:
Quote Jesus had the Holy Spirit without measure (infinite). Do you know what that means? In his body was the infinite God magnified!
Before you get all excited about my statement from an Arian view that because he “Had the Spirit” without measure therefore he cannot be God. Remember that the Father has the Spirit without measure also.
Please tell me Scriptures, so I can read up on it.
You said:
Quote That is why many worshipped him, because they knew that only God could do the things that “HE” did and claimed. The blind man had no idea who Jesus was.
Quote 35Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” 36″Who is he, sir?” the man asked. “Tell me so that I may believe in him.”
37Jesus said, “You have now seen him; in fact, he is the one speaking with you.”
38Then the man said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.
Doesn't sound like he thought Jesus was God Almighty to me. And when the disciples worshipped him in the boat, they didn't think he was God Almighty either.
Quote 32And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. 33Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.” Son of God, yes. But God Almighty? No. They knew that no man could see God and live.
You said:
Quote Jesus claimed to be the Almighty, but men rejected it just as they do today! I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, “the Almighty”. Rev 1:8
Jesus never even claimed to be “a god”, let alone God Almighty. And in Rev 1:8 where does it say it is Jesus speaking?
You Trinitarians can't have it both ways, Keith. You claim Jesus said the Father is greater only because Jesus was a man at the time. And then you turn around and say that somehow, at the same time, the disciples knew and worshipped him as God Almighty.
I can do nothing on my own…does that sound like something God Almighty would say?
Peace and love
mikeQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 22 2010,20:12) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 23 2010,03:53) Ed wrote:Now the parable is this: “The seed” is “the word” of God. (Luke 8:5-11)
You seem to have a LOT of trouble “Connecting ALL the Dots”; don't you?
EdThe problem you have in connecting the dots here is John 1:1c doesn't say “The Word of God was God”.
1) Is God his own spoken word?
John 1:1c says “The Word was God”. The ltteral rendering is “God was the Word”.
The other problem you have is John 1:1b says “The Word was with God”.
So John was not implying that he (God) was with himself!
John 1:14 clearly shows that the “Word” that was with God came in the likeness of sinful flesh! 1 John 1:1-3, Phil 2:6-8 Thats connecting the dots correctly!
2) Click here for an excellent exegesis on John 1:1.
Blessings WJ
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 22 2010,20:12) Hi WJ, You usually “don't” just skip over PROVEN points you don't like, which is TT's pattern.
No I didn't skip over anything, but it seems that you did.You completely skipped over 1 John 1:1-3 that say Jesus is the “Word” that was with God!
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 22 2010,20:12) 1) Are you your own spoken word?
Certainty can't be anybody else!
Well lets see how this foolishness works.So if I speak a 1000 words then it is a thousand keiths. Or maybe when someone speaks my words then they are not speaking at all but I am speaking it! Why do you ignore that John 1:1 does not say “the word of God”. You should stop adding to the text and twisting it to support untruths.
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 22 2010,20:12) 2) The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit. You couldn't hold a candle to the exegesis of Isa 1:18 on John 1:1 found here No offense intended. Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 22 2010,20:12) These verses are ALL very similar in their content. I will use them to connect the dots for you…
Similar does not mean “Truth”.Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 22 2010,20:12) John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word(HolySpirit),
John 1:1 doesn't say Holy Spirit or John would have written it that way since in many other places he speaks of the Holy Spirit. Never once does John say the “Word” is the Holy Spirit, does he?Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 22 2010,20:12) and the Word(HolySpirit) was with God,
But you say the Holy Spirit is the Father, So why wouldn't John say “and the Word (Father) was with God! See how foolish that is?As you say…
The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spiritQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 22 2010,20:12) and the Word(HolySpirit) was God.
But again, John didn't say “and the Holy Spirit was the Father (God) here did he?As you say…
The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spiritQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 22 2010,20:12) They are together, and they go together; please consider… Acts:4:31: And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together;
and they were all filled with the “HolySpirit“, and they spake “the word” of God with boldness.
Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the HolySpirit fell on all them which heard the word.
Acts:11:15: And as I began to speak, the HolySpirit fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Acts:6:7: And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly…
Nope they do not say the Holy Spirit and the “Word” is the same. Consider this…Acts:11:15: And as I began to speak, the HolySpirit fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Why didn't luke write “as I began to speak, the HolySpirit (Word of God) fell on them, as on us at the beginning”?.
Again, no scripture says the “Word” is the Holy Spirit but that is only your inference.
As you say…
The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spiritQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 22 2010,20:12) Did Jesus increase?
No not after he recieved the Holy Spirit without measure!Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 22 2010,20:12) The HolySpirit increased in the People! Why is this SOOO hard for
you to get?
Because it contradicts the scriptures that says Jesus is the Word and to say that the Father is his own spoken word is pure folly!And take the helmet of salvation, and “the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Eph 6:17
Can you see it ED? The “Sword **OF** the Spirit is the “word of God”.
Not the Sword is the Spirit which is the word. Eds version!
As you say…
The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spiritQuote (Ed J @ Feb. 22 2010,20:12) Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
True. The Spirit of God speaks the Word of God.That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of “the Word of life“; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, “which was with the Father“, and was manifested unto us;) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship [is] with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. 1 John 1:1-3
No mention of the Father being the Holy Spirit here, or the Word being the Holy Spirit. What John saw and heard and his hands touched was Jesus my friend “The Word of Life” that was with the Father. John 1:1.
Ed no one here that I know of believes that the Father is the Word and the Holy Spirit. In fact in my thirty fives years of being a believer I have never heard of such.
Can you quote any reputable sources that teach what you teach?
Blessings WJ
Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 23 2010,12:12) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 23 2010,03:53) Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 22 2010,00:46) Now the parable is this: “The seed” is “the word” of God. (Luke 8:5-11)
You seem to have a LOT of trouble “Connecting ALL the Dots”; don't you?
EdThe problem you have in connecting the dots here is John 1:1c doesn't say “The Word of God was God”.
1) Is God his own spoken word?
John 1:1c says “The Word was God”. The ltteral rendering is “God was the Word”.
The other problem you have is John 1:1b says “The Word was with God”.
So John was not implying that he (God) was with himself!
John 1:14 clearly shows that the “Word” that was with God came in the likeness of sinful flesh! 1 John 1:1-3, Phil 2:6-8 Thats connecting the dots correctly!
2) Click here for an excellent exegesis on John 1:1.
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ,You usually “don't” just skip over PROVEN points you don't like, which is TT's pattern.
1) Are you your own spoken word?
Certainty can't be anybody else!2) The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.These verses are ALL very similar in their content. I will use them to connect the dots for you…
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word(HolySpirit),
and the Word(HolySpirit) was with God,
and the Word(HolySpirit) was God.They are together, and they go together; please consider…
Acts:4:31: And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together;
and they were all filled with the “HolySpirit“, and they spake “the word” of God with boldness.
Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the HolySpirit fell on all them which heard the word.
Acts:11:15: And as I began to speak, the HolySpirit fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Acts:6:7: And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly…
Did Jesus increase? The HolySpirit increased in the People! Why is this SOOO hard for you to get?Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
ED J…….they Just don't get it, all who try to divide GOD and Make more GODS ARE IDOLATERS. But for us and Jesus there is “ONLY ONE TRUE GOD”. IMO
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