The arian dissenters

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 20 2010,15:45)

Hi TT,
Are you really hoping your weak logic will stand in the end against the powerful word of God?
wake up.

Nick,

t8 said that the words worship and honor are the same word. t8 is correct and he gave WJ a wide opening when he admitted it.

thinker

February 20, 2010 at 10:02 am#179416

Participant

ED J said to t8:

Quote

Isn't it funny how they keep arguing over the same garbage
over and over and over again and again and again.

to All,

It's funny how ED J keeps giving his numbers garbage over and over and over again when no one gives a hoot.

thinker

February 20, 2010 at 10:09 am#179417

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 20 2010,09:29)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 20 2010,06:45)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 18 2010,22:10)

Hey Wj,

I am consistent with the word worship, and I know that while giving praise, honor and glory are a part of worship, they are not in and of themselves necessarily worship.

Mike

Are you consistent?

Then why don't you worship Jesus like Jesus said to worship the Father in John 4:24?

They are the same word you know?

Blessings WJ

Wj, is this a trick question?

Because he is not God Almighty, that's why.

What are the same word?

Peace and love,
mike

Mike,

This thread is all about Revelation 5:13. It says that the Lamb is worthy to receive “power” with the Father. If this is not “almighty” power and what is it?

And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:

“ Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and ever!”

It does not say that the Lamb receives less power does it?

Revelation 5:13 testifies that both the Lamb and the Father receive [almighty] power!

Think man think!

thinker

February 20, 2010 at 4:20 pm#179450

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Feb. 20 2010,03:26)

Hi T8,

Isn't it funny how they keep arguing over the same garbage
over and over and over again and again and again.

It doesn't get any circular than this!

How many times have we seen you post the “Exact same numbers” and making the same points over and over again on this board!

You speak to t8 like he or you do not particpate in the arguments!

Do you see your bias to the truth?

I think it is funny how you guys avoid the points we make like show me how the word “Worship” in scripture has a different meaning for the Father and Jesus.

Or show us one NT example of any other recieving this worship!

Instead of engaging just make ridiculous claims and patronize!

WEAK!!!

Blessings WJ

February 20, 2010 at 5:33 pm#179461

Blocked

Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 20 2010,21:09)

It does not say that the Lamb receives less power does it?

Revelation 5:13 testifies that both the Lamb and the Father receive [almighty] power!

Think man think!

Hey Thinker,

You ignored my post in your testator topic. So I'll throw it in your face again.

Quote

Hi tt,

Paul was saying Jesus remembered us in his will, leaving us an inheritance. Anyone in Jerusalem who left a will was a testator. Don't make more out of the word than what is there.

And Israel had many “saviors”. King Saul “saved” Israel from the Philistines. The angels God sent that wiped out 185,000 troops for Hezekiah (?) was a savior. And if you turn one person to God in your life, you too are a savior.

And I'm almost positive somewhere it says King David was a shepard of Israel.

So once more, it is GOD'S new covenant and Jesus was the sacrificial lamb to cement the contract. Jesus never said I am making a new covenant with Israel. The new covenant with “spiritual Israel” (God's new chosen people since the Jews disowned Jesus) is between God and his chosen. Jesus was the sacrifice and is now the mediator between the chosen and God. And the Holy Spirit by the way is also a mediator between us and God, but that doesn't make the Holy Spirit Jesus, just because there are more than one mediator.

That's how I understand it, anyway.

Try not to get too hung up on a single word. You act like if someone called God “cool”, then anyone else called cool is God.

Peace and love,
Mike

If someone has BLANK, it must be God's BLANK.

Now insert any word for the word “blank” in the above sentence, and you have The Thinker's logic.

Try some words: power, honor, glory, life , arms, truck….

Come on man – YOU think.

February 20, 2010 at 5:41 pm#179465

Blocked

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 21 2010,03:20)

I think it is funny how you guys avoid the points we make like show me how the word “Worship” in scripture has a different meaning for the Father and Jesus.

Hey Keith,

I think the same thing about you, tt and ca.

Every time I show you what you ask, you act like you skipped right over my post and start responding to other ones.

So, aside from showing you different definitions of “worship”, I also posed a question: Do you think the people who worshipped Jesus thought he was God Almighty?

February 20, 2010 at 6:39 pm#179473

Blocked

Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 20 2010,20:59)

t8 said that the words worship and honor are the same word. t8 is correct and he gave WJ a wide opening when he admitted it.

Hi Thinker,

So “honor your mother and father” really means “worship your mother and father”?

Peace and love,
mike

February 20, 2010 at 6:54 pm#179476

GeneBalthrop

Participant

mikeboll64…………You have it right. they try to make a case from just One word even if it is against the over all scriptures and in some case not even the word used in the sentence structure as for instance they say the word (WORD) in John 1:1 Means Jesus, not even reasoning that if that is what John Meant He would have Just simply wrote Jesus in there. I mean even this simple logic does not cause them concern. It is true that GOD has sent a Strong DELUSION in order for them to believe a LIE. ( that lie is Jesus is GOD HIMSELF)> IMO

Peace and love to you and yours………………….gene

February 20, 2010 at 6:58 pm#179478

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 20 2010,12:41)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 21 2010,03:20)

I think it is funny how you guys avoid the points we make like show me how the word “Worship” in scripture has a different meaning for the Father and Jesus.

Hey Keith,

I think the same thing about you, tt and ca.

Every time I show you what you ask, you act like you skipped right over my post and start responding to other ones.

So, aside from showing you different definitions of “worship”, I also posed a question: Do you think the people who worshipped Jesus thought he was God Almighty?

Mike

Yes!

They knew who he was and understood his claims of equality with the Father and that the Term “Son of God” meant Divinity! The Hebrew never referred to the Father as their “OWN” Father. They considered that blasphemy and that he was making himself equal to God!

That is why the opposers wanted to kill him because of his claims.

What other mere man claims he came down from heaven?

What other mere man can claim unless you eat “MY Flesh” and drink “MY Blood” you have no life in you?

To be in Jesus presence even in the flesh was an awsome and reverent thing.

Jesus had the Holy Spirit without measure (infinite).

Do you know what that means? In his body was the infinite God magnified!

Before you get all excited about my statement from an Arian view that because he “Had the Spirit” without measure therefore he cannot be God. Remember that the Father has the Spirit without measure also.

That is why many worshipped him, because they knew that only God could do the things that “HE” did and claimed.

You and I have the same Spirit but we can never claim any works that we do through the Spirit as ours.

Not so with Jesus, in fact we claim that it is Jesus that does the works in us! Jesus claims that the Holy Spirit takes from him and hears him and gives to us!

Do you see the difference?

Jesus claimed to be the Almighty, but men rejected it just as they do today!

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, “the Almighty“. Rev 1:8

February 20, 2010 at 7:02 pm#179480

Blocked

Thanks, Gene!

I'm confused by your wording, though. Don't you believe the Word was Jesus?

February 20, 2010 at 7:02 pm#179481

NickHassan

Participant

Hi WJ,
Was he just a body or a man in who God lived as Spirit that we can follow?

February 20, 2010 at 7:27 pm#179486

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 20 2010,13:54)

Peace and love to you and yours………………….gene

Gene

Not so! John was telling us a story and Jesus when he was with the Father as the Word that was God did not have the name Jesus until he came in the flesh in John 1:14.

So why do you deny Johns own words that Jesus is the Word in 1 John 1:1-3 and Revelations 19:13?

February 20, 2010 at 7:29 pm#179488

Participant

Quote (CatholicApologist @ Feb. 20 2010,07:15)

Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 20 2010,07:11)

Quote (CatholicApologist @ Feb. 20 2010,07:05)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 20 2010,06:41)

Quote (CatholicApologist @ Feb. 19 2010,14:30)

Ahh…the Protestant heretics against the Arian heretics…I see

Well, this is common among heretics. Luther was against Erasmus and Zwingli. History repeats itself?

Circular!

The scriptures the CC say are inspired show much division among the Apostles and believers!

I suppose they were heretics too?

Go read my response to this asinine claim of yours in the Scriptures section.

CA,

See my post immediately above yours. Hopefully you will chill out a little. WJ and I vehemently disagree in the area of eschatology. We have learned to put that aside and cultivate our alliance on the more cardinal doctrines of the faith.

You are really getting on my nerves sir!

thinker

Maybe you aren't getting it, sir.

I am waiting for you BOTH to engage me on cardinal doctrines.

(funny you should use the term “cardinal doctrine”)

I don't want to get on your nerves. However someone needs to stand up to you and get you to see that your espoused heresy is NOT OK with God.

CA,

Paul said that love “rejoices in the truth.” So it seems that as our fellow trinitarian you would rejoice that WJ and I speak the truth about Christ's divinity.

But you say that we are in the “same boat” with the Arians because we are non-Catholic.

This was not Paul's attitude. He rejoiced that Christ was preached even if it was through strife and envy. So you could rejoice that WJ and I preach Christ though we are “damned” Protestants.

thinker

February 20, 2010 at 7:35 pm#179490

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 21 2010,06:27)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 20 2010,13:54)

Peace and love to you and yours………………….gene

Gene

Not so! John was telling us a story and Jesus when he was with the Father as the Word that was God did not have the name Jesus until he came in the flesh in John 1:14.

So why do you deny Johns own words that Jesus is the Word in 1 John 1:1-3 and Revelations 19:13?

Yes WJ,

The “Word” of verse 1 is called the “Word” again and also the “only begotten Son” in verse 14. So the “Word” was the “Only begotten Son.”

Does Gene need for God to write it in the sky that the Word is Jesus? Oh, wait, Gene says that the name “Christ” applies to many persons and things. So maybe he thinks that the name “only begotten Son” applies to many persons and things as well.

I would not put it past Gene's highly active imagination.

thinker

February 20, 2010 at 7:58 pm#179495