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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 14 2012,11:10) Hi T8,
We need strong evidence.
You need strong evidence to teach something as truth. Very strong. But I don't throw away possibilities because some things are only discovered when one delves into scripture and bringing it to the light one can possibly prove it or disprove it by scripture.Nowhere in scripture is it taught that Jesus did not exist in some form before coming as a man. On the contrary it says that he existed in the form of God, emptied himself, partook of flesh, died for humanity, and rose from the dead to the glory that he had with the Father before the world began. And what is the form of God. Is God a spirit. And are beings in heaven in that form? Is the Messenger of the LORD in that form?
Truth is found when you mine the pearls in scripture and I agree that if something is not explicitly taught, then you can only offer something as a view or possibility until you find a scripture that proves or disproves the idea. This is what I am doing here, very few are able to comprehend that for some reason even though I have tried to spell it out a number of times. I am asking for help to disprove it or prove it. Either way I am happy.
I gave the example of people discovering truths in science or medicine based on patterns and I guess I don't have to show that many crimes are cracked by asking questions that might appear foolish to begin with. But most certainly, when there is some evidence whether that is circumstantial, coincidental, or proof, it is worth checking out if you love the field that you are in. think about it. If something is true, then evidence will point in that direction and if you look long and hard and discover something very strong, then you likely have a case.
How for example did you see through the deception of the Trinity. I bet there was a time when you were not sure, but had a few scriptures that seem to back up the conviction you had, all the while people said, “more evidence” or “what a load of cobblers” and tried to shoot you down. Have you forgotten that so quickly. Yet I am guessing that you pressed on and discovered something that most have not discovered for themselves because they never gave it a chance.
If we shoot every idea down in its infancy then it never gets a chance to see the light of day or to be tested and then you have successfully become the oppressive force that you tried to become free of yourself. I think I can speak for most here and say that we appreciate constructive feeback whether that is evidence in support or to the contrary. Because evidence either way is welcomed by those who love the truth.
So how about it. We try and prove it either way by looking at the evidence instead of shooting it down with personal comments.
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 14 2012,18:36) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 14 2012,11:10) Hi T8,
We need strong evidence.
You need strong evidence to teach something as truth. Very strong. But I don't throw away possibilities because some things are only discovered when one delves into scripture and bringing it to the light one can possibly prove it or disprove it by scripture.
Hi T8,Does this mean that you willing to consider the possibility that
“The Word” is indeed God's “HolySpirit”? Or are your words empty words?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgOf course I am willing to accept anything that is true.
I just can't get over the idea that the sword of the Spirit is the Word and the Word is the Spirit and thus the sword of the Spirit is the word of the Word.
Sorry but that is the truth.
To me the truth adds up and the word of the Word doesn't add up to me.
Anyhow we can discuss this further in the appropriate topic.Quote (t8 @ Feb. 14 2012,18:08) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 14 2012,13:00) T8………..Come on you do support the idea that Jesus was a “MORPHED” Angel
With a comment like that, it shows you are not listening to me. No point in dialog with you is there.
T8………..Lets be truthful here do you or don't you believe Jesus was Morphed from some Past Life or not? You are a staunch supporter of a Preexistent Jesus, and to deny that would be a false statement on your present position T8.You point out where Paul said He existed with the nature of GOD, and indeed he did, but you make that “existed” to mean before his earthly existence and Paul never said that now did He? Paul was speaking this after Jesus ascended from the earth and was talking about when he did live on this earth, that was the time frame of the meaning of “HE EXISTED” with the NATURE of GOD, Because He had GOD SPIRIT in HIM When he “EXISTED” on this EARTH. There is no proof Paul was talking about a “PER-EARTH” EXISTENCE at all. All of what Paul said there was noting a earthly existence, so to try to change a small part to mean something completely different, that is not being honest with the context of the text T8. IMO
T8 you say you seek truth well then why force the text to say what in fact it does not say, is it not to meet your teachings you believe in and are you truly being honest with that scripture? I doubt it Brother, you are forcing the text T8 to say what in fact it is not saying. So it seems you want the truth but you want it your way. IMO
peace and love……………………………………..gene
T8,
Hebrews 1
New International Version (NIV)
1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
Looking at these passages it seems clear that God has not spoken through Jesus until these last days. Given that it could not be Jesus he spoke through when speaking to Manoah or anyone else in the past.
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 15 2012,15:57) T8, Hebrews 1
New International Version (NIV)
1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
Looking at these passages it seems clear that God has not spoken through Jesus until these last days. Given that it could not be Jesus he spoke through when speaking to Manoah or anyone else in the past.
kerwinQuote could not be Jesus he spoke through when speaking to Manoah or anyone else in the past. why not
?Paul says in the same verse; and through whom also he made the universe.
when was that
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 14 2012,23:28) T8………..Lets be truthful here do you or don't you believe Jesus was Morphed from some Past Life or not? You are a staunch supporter of a Preexistent Jesus, and to deny that would be a false statement on your present position T8.
Gene, let's get something straight before I proceed. I am a staunch supporter of scripture and scripture says that he existed in the form of God, emptied himself, became flesh, humbled himself, died, rose again, and is seated at the right hand of the majesty on high in the glory that he had with the Father before the world began.So I support this because it is written. As I have said many times before, preexistence is of no advantage to me and I don't have an agenda on this, I simply believe that which is written. It is as simple as that Gene.
No I don't believe that Jesus is the morphed Cherub or Seraph. I do believe that he is a messenger and even more than that, the messenger of God. If you don't believe that he is a messenger or the messenger of God then that is your business, but he was sent from the Father with the words of the Father and that is good enough for me.
So you can stop with the ontological argument regarding this because every time you bring that up, it just shows again that you are not reading what I am saying or you lack the capacity to understand what I am saying.
Gene, rather than accuse me of saying that he is a morphed Cherub or Seraph, try to see that I am saying that he existed in the form of God. I haven't even taught anything about what that form is but may have mentioned once or twice that I think that it is spirit.
Please do not embarrass yourself further or show a lack of understanding with the morphed argument you are leveling at me. I think it is very clear what I am trying to convey. Misrepresentation if it is that is a sign that you are on the back foot and desperate.
I will give you the benefit of the doubt one more time. I have made my case as clear as can be. No excuses from hence forth okay?
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 15 2012,08:57) T8, Hebrews 1
New International Version (NIV)
1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
Looking at these passages it seems clear that God has not spoken through Jesus until these last days. Given that it could not be Jesus he spoke through when speaking to Manoah or anyone else in the past.
This is a good point, however God did speak through angels, and the Angel of the LORD and they are not mentioned either so the point is moot, but certainly stil a good point IMO. All that is mentioned here are men/prophets and thus Jesus is obviously mentioned because
1) he is a man
2) he is the greatest messenger of them all.Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 15 2012,04:06) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 15 2012,15:57) T8, Hebrews 1
New International Version (NIV)
1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
Looking at these passages it seems clear that God has not spoken through Jesus until these last days. Given that it could not be Jesus he spoke through when speaking to Manoah or anyone else in the past.
kerwinQuote could not be Jesus he spoke through when speaking to Manoah or anyone else in the past. why not
?Paul says in the same verse; and through whom also he made the universe.
when was that
Pierre,The verse explicitly states “In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets” and then contrasts it with what is now happening in the last ages. The contrast being that God now speaks through his Son but did not in the past.
“whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.” describes the Son in relationship to the ages.
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 15 2012,18:55) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 15 2012,04:06) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 15 2012,15:57) T8, Hebrews 1
New International Version (NIV)
1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
Looking at these passages it seems clear that God has not spoken through Jesus until these last days. Given that it could not be Jesus he spoke through when speaking to Manoah or anyone else in the past.
kerwinQuote could not be Jesus he spoke through when speaking to Manoah or anyone else in the past. why not
?Paul says in the same verse; and through whom also he made the universe.
when was that
Pierre,The verse explicitly states “In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets” and then contrasts it with what is now happening in the last ages. The contrast being that God now speaks through his Son but did not in the past.
“whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.” describes the Son in relationship to the ages.
kerwinQuote ” describes the Son in relationship to the ages. DON'T MAKE ME LUFF,
SO;and through whom also he made the universe.
according to mr KERWIN the scriptures can not be read as is;
and should be ;; describes the Son in relationship to the ages.
what are you saying
is this not in line with what Paul says to the Clossians
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.please where do you get those interpretation ? tell me
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 15 2012,07:03) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 15 2012,18:55) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 15 2012,04:06) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 15 2012,15:57) T8, Hebrews 1
New International Version (NIV)
1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
Looking at these passages it seems clear that God has not spoken through Jesus until these last days. Given that it could not be Jesus he spoke through when speaking to Manoah or anyone else in the past.
kerwinQuote could not be Jesus he spoke through when speaking to Manoah or anyone else in the past. why not
?Paul says in the same verse; and through whom also he made the universe.
when was that
Pierre,The verse explicitly states “In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets” and then contrasts it with what is now happening in the last ages. The contrast being that God now speaks through his Son but did not in the past.
“whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.” describes the Son in relationship to the ages.
kerwinQuote ” describes the Son in relationship to the ages. DON'T MAKE ME LUFF,
SO;and through whom also he made the universe.
according to mr KERWIN the scriptures can not be read as is;
and should be ;; describes the Son in relationship to the ages.
what are you saying
is this not in line with what Paul says to the Clossians
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.please where do you get those interpretation ? tell me
Pierre,This is off topic but the word translated to “universe” in the NIV literally means ages as translated in the YLT.
Hebrews 1
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)1In many parts, and many ways, God of old having spoken to the fathers in the prophets,
2in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages;My main on topic point is that these verses make it clear that God did not speak to the people through Jesus prior to the last days.
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 16 2012,13:29) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 15 2012,07:03) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 15 2012,18:55) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 15 2012,04:06) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 15 2012,15:57) T8, Hebrews 1
New International Version (NIV)
1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
Looking at these passages it seems clear that God has not spoken through Jesus until these last days. Given that it could not be Jesus he spoke through when speaking to Manoah or anyone else in the past.
kerwinQuote could not be Jesus he spoke through when speaking to Manoah or anyone else in the past. why not
?Paul says in the same verse; and through whom also he made the universe.
when was that
Pierre,The verse explicitly states “In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets” and then contrasts it with what is now happening in the last ages. The contrast being that God now speaks through his Son but did not in the past.
“whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.” describes the Son in relationship to the ages.
kerwinQuote ” describes the Son in relationship to the ages. DON'T MAKE ME LUFF,
SO;and through whom also he made the universe.
according to mr KERWIN the scriptures can not be read as is;
and should be ;; describes the Son in relationship to the ages.
what are you saying
is this not in line with what Paul says to the Clossians
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.please where do you get those interpretation ? tell me
Pierre,This is off topic but the word translated to “universe” in the NIV literally means ages as translated in the YLT.
Hebrews 1
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)1In many parts, and many ways, God of old having spoken to the fathers in the prophets,
2in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages;My main on topic point is that these verses make it clear that God did not speak to the people through Jesus prior to the last days.
KerwinQuote My main on topic point is that these verses make it clear that God did not speak to the people through Jesus prior to the last days. as for Jesus you are right the son of man,
but the scriptures also says that he (Jesus) is of old ,ages
this part you are rejecting NO??”whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.”
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 16 2012,01:36) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 16 2012,13:29) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 15 2012,07:03) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 15 2012,18:55) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 15 2012,04:06) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 15 2012,15:57) T8, Hebrews 1
New International Version (NIV)
1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
Looking at these passages it seems clear that God has not spoken through Jesus until these last days. Given that it could not be Jesus he spoke through when speaking to Manoah or anyone else in the past.
kerwinQuote could not be Jesus he spoke through when speaking to Manoah or anyone else in the past. why not
?Paul says in the same verse; and through whom also he made the universe.
when was that
Pierre,The verse explicitly states “In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets” and then contrasts it with what is now happening in the last ages. The contrast being that God now speaks through his Son but did not in the past.
“whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.” describes the Son in relationship to the ages.
kerwinQuote ” describes the Son in relationship to the ages. DON'T MAKE ME LUFF,
SO;and through whom also he made the universe.
according to mr KERWIN the scriptures can not be read as is;
and should be ;; describes the Son in relationship to the ages.
what are you saying
is this not in line with what Paul says to the Clossians
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.please where do you get those interpretation ? tell me
Pierre,This is off topic but the word translated to “universe” in the NIV literally means ages as translated in the YLT.
Hebrews 1
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)1In many parts, and many ways, God of old having spoken to the fathers in the prophets,
2in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages;My main on topic point is that these verses make it clear that God did not speak to the people through Jesus prior to the last days.
KerwinQuote My main on topic point is that these verses make it clear that God did not speak to the people through Jesus prior to the last days. as for Jesus you are right the son of man,
but the scriptures also says that he (Jesus) is of old ,ages
this part you are rejecting NO??”whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.”
Pierre,Hebrews 1:1-2 does not speak of Jesus' origins. Jesus origins were of old as God foreknew him and planned his existence before the world was created.
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 16 2012,16:10) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 16 2012,01:36) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 16 2012,13:29) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 15 2012,07:03) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 15 2012,18:55) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 15 2012,04:06) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 15 2012,15:57) T8, Hebrews 1
New International Version (NIV)
1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
Looking at these passages it seems clear that God has not spoken through Jesus until these last days. Given that it could not be Jesus he spoke through when speaking to Manoah or anyone else in the past.
kerwinQuote could not be Jesus he spoke through when speaking to Manoah or anyone else in the past. why not
?Paul says in the same verse; and through whom also he made the universe.
when was that
Pierre,The verse explicitly states “In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets” and then contrasts it with what is now happening in the last ages. The contrast being that God now speaks through his Son but did not in the past.
“whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.” describes the Son in relationship to the ages.
kerwinQuote ” describes the Son in relationship to the ages. DON'T MAKE ME LUFF,
SO;and through whom also he made the universe.
according to mr KERWIN the scriptures can not be read as is;
and should be ;; describes the Son in relationship to the ages.
what are you saying
is this not in line with what Paul says to the Clossians
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.please where do you get those interpretation ? tell me
Pierre,This is off topic but the word translated to “universe” in the NIV literally means ages as translated in the YLT.
Hebrews 1
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)1In many parts, and many ways, God of old having spoken to the fathers in the prophets,
2in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages;My main on topic point is that these verses make it clear that God did not speak to the people through Jesus prior to the last days.
KerwinQuote My main on topic point is that these verses make it clear that God did not speak to the people through Jesus prior to the last days. as for Jesus you are right the son of man,
but the scriptures also says that he (Jesus) is of old ,ages
this part you are rejecting NO??”whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.”
Pierre,Hebrews 1:1-2 does not speak of Jesus' origins. Jesus origins were of old as God foreknew him and planned his existence before the world was created.
kerwinthen it does not say what you say;
Heb 1:1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
Heb 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
Heb 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
Heb 1:4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
Heb 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father’” ?Or again,
“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son” ?Heb 1:6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,
“Let all God’s angels worship him.”Heb 1:7 In speaking of the angels he says,
“He makes his angels winds,
his servants flames of fire.”Heb 1:8 But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,
and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
Heb 1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”Heb 1:10 He also says,
“In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of t
he earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.
Heb 1:11 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
Heb 1:12 You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.”Heb 1:13 To which of the angels did God ever say,
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet” ?
Heb 1:14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?Heb 2:1 We must pay more careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away.
Heb 2:2 For if the message spoken by angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment,
Heb 2:3 how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him.
Heb 2:4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.Heb 2:5 It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking.
Heb 2:6 But there is a place where someone has testified:
“What is man that you are mindful of him,
the son of man that you care for him?
Heb 2:7 You made him a little lower than the angels;
you crowned him with glory and honor
Heb 2:8 and put everything under his feet.”In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him.
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
Heb 2:10 In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering.
Heb 2:11 Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers.
Heb 2:12 He says,
“I will declare your name to my brothers;
in the presence of the congregation I will sing your praises.”
Heb 2:13 And again,
“I will put my trust in him.”And again he says,
“Here am I, and the children God has given me.”
Heb 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—
Heb 2:15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.
Heb 2:16 For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants.
Heb 2:17 in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in ser For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way,vice to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.LOOK IN VERSE 17 WHAT IT SAYS ABOUT CHRIST THE SON OF GOD ;;in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in ser For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way,vice to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
Pierre
“Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.”
John the Baptist is called a messenger/angel.
“Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me”
Confirmed here.Matthew 11:10
“For this is he, of whom it is WRITTEN, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.”Jesus Christ is also called the angel/messenger in the second part of the verse.
Malachi 3:1
“…and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hostsMalachi speaks of the coming of the Messenger of the covenant. That Messenger is Christ. The word “messenger” is the same word which is so often translated in the Old Testament by the word “angel.” Angels are messengers of God. That Christ is called the “Messenger” or “Angel” of the covenant could well identify him as “the Angel of the LORD”.
Why did Jesus say, “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me”.
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 15 2012,10:02) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 14 2012,23:28) T8………..Lets be truthful here do you or don't you believe Jesus was Morphed from some Past Life or not? You are a staunch supporter of a Preexistent Jesus, and to deny that would be a false statement on your present position T8.
Gene, let's get something straight before I proceed. I am a staunch supporter of scripture and scripture says that he existed in the form of God, emptied himself, became flesh, humbled himself, died, rose again, and is seated at the right hand of the majesty on high in the glory that he had with the Father before the world began.So I support this because it is written. As I have said many times before, preexistence is of no advantage to me and I don't have an agenda on this, I simply believe that which is written. It is as simple as that Gene.
No I don't believe that Jesus is the morphed Cherub or Seraph. I do believe that he is a messenger and even more than that, the messenger of God. If you don't believe that he is a messenger or the messenger of God then that is your business, but he was sent from the Father with the words of the Father and that is good enough for me.
So you can stop with the ontological argument regarding this because every time you bring that up, it just shows again that you are not reading what I am saying or you lack the capacity to understand what I am saying.
Gene, rather than accuse me of saying that he is a morphed Cherub or Seraph, try to see that I am saying that he existed in the form of God. I haven't even taught anything about what that form is but may have mentioned once or twice that I think that it is spirit.
Please do not embarrass yourself further or show a lack of understanding with the morphed argument you are leveling at me. I think it is very clear what I am trying to convey. Misrepresentation if it is that is a sign that you are on the back foot and desperate.
I will give you the benefit of the doubt one more time. I have made my case as clear as can be. No excuses from hence forth okay?
Hi Nick,Read this post: “Morphed Angel” what is that?
Does Gene mean “Human” or another definition?Gene and T8 are arguing over misconceptions,
this is something that I refuse to do, understand!Gene's done this before with “Free Will” and he
attempts to do this with me with “Preexistence”;
he is confusing preexistence with reincarnation.Here are my terms:
Reincarnation: The belief that the soul, upon death of the body,
comes back to earth in another body or form.Preexistence: To exist in spirit form before becoming incarnated as a human.
I need to know what you are calling 'an Evil Angel',
so I can be clear as to what YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.
I WILL NOT be arguing over misconceptions, so the terms must be clearly understood!At least me and you have a starting point, you understand my terms, correct?
As you have seen me illustrate in the “For Jammin” thread, I refuse
to argue over misconceptions, the terms must be clear!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Nick,
As a teacher of GOD, my terms must be clearly understood.
NO ASSUMPTIONS on my part!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (terraricca @ Feb. 15 2012,12:03) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 15 2012,18:55) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 15 2012,04:06) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 15 2012,15:57) T8, Hebrews 1
New International Version (NIV)
1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.
Looking at these passages it seems clear that God has not spoken through Jesus until these last days. Given that it could not be Jesus he spoke through when speaking to Manoah or anyone else in the past.
kerwinQuote could not be Jesus he spoke through when speaking to Manoah or anyone else in the past. why not
?Paul says in the same verse; and through whom also he made the universe.
when was that
Pierre,The verse explicitly states “In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets” and then contrasts it with what is now happening in the last ages. The contrast being that God now speaks through his Son but did not in the past.
“whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.” describes the Son in relationship to the ages.
kerwinQuote ” describes the Son in relationship to the ages. DON'T MAKE ME LUFF,
SO;and through whom also he made the universe.
according to mr KERWIN the scriptures can not be read as is;
and should be ;; describes the Son in relationship to the ages.
what are you saying
is this not in line with what Paul says to the Clossians
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.please where do you get those interpretation ? tell me
Hi Pierre,You make me luff.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (t8 @ May 13 2012,22:15) “Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.” John the Baptist is called a messenger/angel.
“Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me”
Confirmed here.Matthew 11:10
“For this is he, of whom it is WRITTEN, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.”Jesus Christ is also called the angel/messenger in the second part of the verse.
Hi T8,I disagree with you, and here's why:
John prepared the way, which was the way
of “God's Word” becoming flesh. (see John 1:14)
Matthew 11:10 is entirely about John the baptist!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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