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Hi SF,The points you've numbered 1 and 2.
1) (who is this)
2) (who is this)God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
ok so what does that have to do with me learning more english?Dennison,
God does appear to be speaking of redeeming Israel, or at least those who claim to be Israel.
Isaiah 44:3-5(NIV) reads:
Quote For I will pour water on the thirsty land,
and streams on the dry ground;
I will pour out my Spirit on your offspring,
and my blessing on your descendants. h
They will spring up like grass in a meadow,
like poplar trees by flowing streams.
One will say, 'I belong to the LORD ';
another will call himself by the name of Jacob;
still another will write on his hand, 'The LORD's,'
and will take the name Israel.The NIV is written to make that point clearer than the KJV does.
Isaiah 44:6(NIV) reads:
Quote “This is what the LORD says—
Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty:
I am the first and I am the last;
apart from me there is no God.Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 06 2010,04:29) Dennison, God does appear to be speaking of redeeming Israel, or at least those who claim to be Israel.
Isaiah 44:3-5(NIV) reads:
Quote For I will pour water on the thirsty land,
and streams on the dry ground;
I will pour out my Spirit on your offspring,
and my blessing on your descendants. h
They will spring up like grass in a meadow,
like poplar trees by flowing streams.
One will say, 'I belong to the LORD ';
another will call himself by the name of Jacob;
still another will write on his hand, 'The LORD's,'
and will take the name Israel.The NIV is written to make that point clearer than the KJV does.
Isaiah 44:6(NIV) reads:
Quote “This is what the LORD says—
Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty:
I am the first and I am the last;
apart from me there is no God.
Kerwin,
I dont think NIV would be the best translation to use in this case.Going back to the greek and Hebrew would help.
The Hebrew uses this word
ve·go·'a·lov 1350 and his Redeemerin other words “gaal” for redeemer, the rest of the word presents a speration of a another person.
Here is Youngs literal translation
Young's Literal Translation
Thus said Jehovah, king of Israel, And his Redeemer, Jehovah of Hosts: 'I am the first, and I the last, And besides Me there is no God.Now Kerwin,
There are other text to consider of course.
such asThe King of Israel – ( Isaiah 41:21).
And his Redeemer – (Isaiah 43:1).
The Lord of hosts – ( Isaiah 1:9).
I am the first – ( Isaiah 41:4).
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 06 2010,10:55) Maybe it means Israels REdeemer for “his”? in whose positions is under “his”?
Hi SF,Thank you for considering!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgDennison,
I can certainly see why one may be confused how to correctly interpret that passage as those titles also apply to Jesus and so the Spirit of Christ/God that fills all that are in unity with God's righteousness and holiness. Still the context I cited earlier, even as written in the KJV, is clearly speaking if those that claim to be Israel and are those seeking salvation from God.
I believe Young's translation makes it clear the scripture is speaking of Yahweh.
The other scriptures you mention also make it clear those titles are attached to Yahweh.
Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 19 2010,08:37) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 16 2010,06:45) Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 15 2010,03:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2010,13:48) Hi RM, I guess you missed this part,
Several later manuscripts repeat “I am the Alpha and Omega” in 1v11 too, but it does not receive support here from most of the oldest manuscripts, including the Alexandrine, Sinaitic, and Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus. It is, therefore, omitted in some modern translations. Scholar Robert Young stated, with regards to “I am the Alpha and Omega” in 1v11, that the “oldest MSS. omit” it.
Those words are not in the Greek manuscripts that are the oldest and considered the most reliable and true to the Word.
That's why even the newer trinitarian sponsored translations do not include them. They aren't in the original Greek.
mike
So can you please provide the original greek text, that you supposedly have read/seen where these words were omitted?
Here's one of them:http://net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Rev&chapter=1&verse=11
I think this is the Wescott and Hort mss, but I'm not sure.
mike
Mike, your translations that all don't include Alpha and Omega… come from translations that COME from the KJV.——-
The KJV is a literal translation of the original greek/hebrew text.
All the others, are translations FROM the KJV, reworded for a better read.
——-
So when you provide text from the KJV, you are providing a single translation from the original text.
When you provide text from the NIV and such, you're probiding, a translation from a translation. ect….
——-
The only authority for biblical truth, is the original text or the KJV in which is a translation of….
If the original text, Say Alpha and Omega… then end of story.
You'd be a fool to follow the translation of a translation as oppose to the original text.
——–
BTW, the link you provided, wasn't a link to the original text…
the one I provided however, was….
and in the original text we see the words… Firt and last, or alpha and omega….
so stop arguing about something you're clearly wrong about.
If KJV is the authority then why is the New world translation the answer to the $800 question for jeopardy? The question was what was the most accurate translation?
Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ May 31 2011,06:32) If KJV is the authority then why is the New world translation the answer to the $800 question for jeopardy? The question was what was the most accurate translation?
So an American game show is the final authority on the legitimacy of biblical translations?Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 19 2010,08:37) The KJV is a literal translation of the original greek/hebrew text. All the others, are translations FROM the KJV, reworded for a better read.
Not true.The KJV comes from the Textus Receptus.
Other translations make use of a number of manuscripts including the Dead Sea Scrolls. They are usually older manuscripts.Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 31 2011,11:24) Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ May 31 2011,06:32) If KJV is the authority then why is the New world translation the answer to the $800 question for jeopardy? The question was what was the most accurate translation?
So an American game show is the final authority on the legitimacy of biblical translations?
it's true it's a game show but it's a game show of knowledge. The game show is basically random questions from encyclopedia's etc.This never happened. It's an urban myth, much like the Einstein/Teacher story that people love to tell.
Quote If KJV is the authority then why is the New world translation the answer to the $800 question for jeopardy? The question was what was the most accurate translation? I'd be interested to know which Jeopardy episode this was? Of course, if this really happened, it would be on youtube. I would have seen it a hundred times. People I know would have sent it to me, and i would have sent it to Is 1:18.
But none of that ever happened.
Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ May 31 2011,09:23) Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 31 2011,11:24) Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ May 31 2011,06:32) If KJV is the authority then why is the New world translation the answer to the $800 question for jeopardy? The question was what was the most accurate translation?
So an American game show is the final authority on the legitimacy of biblical translations?
it's true it's a game show but it's a game show of knowledge. The game show is basically random questions from encyclopedia's etc.
so your saying the encyclopedia is the final authority, which was written by some guy?Shouldnt GOD be the final authority???
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 31 2011,19:07) Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ May 31 2011,09:23) Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 31 2011,11:24) Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ May 31 2011,06:32) If KJV is the authority then why is the New world translation the answer to the $800 question for jeopardy? The question was what was the most accurate translation?
So an American game show is the final authority on the legitimacy of biblical translations?
it's true it's a game show but it's a game show of knowledge. The game show is basically random questions from encyclopedia's etc.
so your saying the encyclopedia is the final authority, which was written by some guy?Shouldnt GOD be the final authority???
It doesn't matter. This conversation is useless. There is no encyclopedia that says that. And this never actually happened.https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….l=alpha
Quote (david @ May 31 2011,17:41) Quote If KJV is the authority then why is the New world translation the answer to the $800 question for jeopardy? The question was what was the most accurate translation? I'd be interested to know which Jeopardy episode this was? Of course, if this really happened, it would be on youtube. I would have seen it a hundred times. People I know would have sent it to me, and i would have sent it to Is 1:18.
But none of that ever happened.
Jason Debuhn which is a scholar with at least a dozen Theology degrees said in his book Truth in translation that it appeared on Jeopardy. I'll find a video or at least in article on it eventually
Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ June 04 2011,01:52) Jason Debuhn which is a scholar with at least a dozen Theology degrees said in his book Truth in translation that it appeared on Jeopardy. I'll find a video or at least in article on it eventually
This is an Argument from authority.Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 03 2011,15:48) Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ June 04 2011,01:52) Jason Debuhn which is a scholar with at least a dozen Theology degrees said in his book Truth in translation that it appeared on Jeopardy. I'll find a video or at least in article on it eventually
This is an Argument from authority.
Hey PaulI am not sure about that link it didn't take me anywhere.
Blessings!
Keith
Hi BC&JW,
Jason Debuhn has 3 degrees and not one of them is “Theology” persay. Here is are the 2 links I used to discover this information. Took me 2 minutes or so.
Wiki Info
Jason Debuhn's personal webpage
Regarding the jeopardy show issue the most reasonable answer I could glean from the internet is that it is a powerpoint game called “Theology Jeopardy” that has this question(answer?) in it you can download it, but, because I don't have powerpoint I cannot confirm it. All other sources including Sony Pictures say it was never on the television program. This took me about another 5 minutes. Jason Debuhn states that in his opinion, that of the 9 bible versions he compared he found the NWT to be most accurate. It his his opinion and he has every right to publish it in his book. There are many different manuscripts of the bible and they don't all agree in the greek text word for word. I like to use the Young's Literal Translation and the KJV and do word study's and learn a little greek and hebrew. I am no learned scholar in koine greek or hebrew, but, I am fairly linguistically adept. I will check out the NWT. I would like for you to keep in mind that the letter kills and it is the spirit that gives life. May God's peace and Christ Jesus' teachings reign in your heart for eternity.With Love and Respect,
Wispring
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