The adversary

[acertainchap]

Do you think that God created Satan/Lucifer with a free-will or do you think that he didn't create him with a free-will?

I was under the impression that all Men, Women, and Angels were given free-will by their Creator. If Satan was not Lucifer at one point, then also one is saying that God didn't create 1/3 of his angels good but only 2/3; and this is not like God because he gives free-will.

[Bibliophile]

Hi Chap,

At Genesis 1:31 God says that “everything that he had made and look! [it was] very good.”
Obviously, the angels were created before man but at this point in time God says everything is very good.

God created all beings (spirit or human) with free will. This would have included Satan. However, Satan wasn't always Satan (this word means resister of God). He started out as a perfect angel but later chose to resist God making him Satan. Notice Jesus' words at John 8:44 “That one (Satan)…did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him.” Jesus indicates for us that at one time 'that one (satan) was in the truth.'

He is also known as Devil (which means slanderer) when he accused God of lying at Genesis 3:1-5.

Illustration: A parent has a child and raises him to be a Christian. Later that child chooses to become a thief. Did the parents raise a thief? Certainly not. Rather, the child resisted his parents and chose to be a thief.

Hope this helps.

[acertainchap]

Yes. This helps a lot. Thanks.

Oh one more thing!!! Even if Satan was not Lucifer at one point, the fact still stands that he started out as a perfect angel and chose to do evil rather than good. It really doesn't matter if he started with the name Lucifer or if he started with the name Satan. Does it?

[acertainchap]

People are always going to argue if Satan started off as Lucifer or not so it is better not to argue it correct? As long as we know that at one point he started off good that is a knowledge that matters. Correct?

[Bibliophile]

Hi ACC,

Yes, we need to choose our battle's wisely. Remember though, we should always speak truth (2 Timothy 2:15 (Amplified Bible)
15Study and be eager and do your utmost to present yourself to God approved (tested by trial), a workman who has no cause to be ashamed, correctly analyzing and accurately dividing [rightly handling and skillfully teaching] the Word of Truth.

Glad to help out!

In Christ

[TimothyVI]

Satan did not start off good and turn bad. He was a murderer from the beginning.
God created him that way and it was good.
God created evil, and it was good.
Everything that God created was good in God's eyes.
Tim

[NickHassan]

Hi Tim4,
Was not 'the beginning' before Genesis?

[TimothyVI]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2007,09:21)

Hi Tim4, Was not 'the beginning' before Genesis?

Hi Nick,

You said “Was not 'the beginning' before Genesis?”

It was, and satan was a murderer from the beginning.
That was even before Genesis. That was from the beginning of satan.

Tim

[acertainchap]

No one has stated an answer to this, yet…

“I was under the impression that all Men, Women, and Angels were given free-will by their Creator. If Satan was not Lucifer at one point, then also one is saying that God didn't create 1/3 of his angels good but only 2/3; and this is not like God because he gives free-will.”

[TimothyVI]

If all of this “free will” nonsence were true, then what would keep the exact same thing from happening all over again after
the resurrection when all of God's people are in heaven? Do they mysteriously lose this free will then.

Tim

[942767]

Quote (TimothyVI @ July 28 2007,09:32)

If all of this “free will” nonsence were true, then what would keep the exact same thing from happening all over again after the resurrection when all of God's people are in heaven? Do they mysteriously lose this free will then. Tim

Hi Tim VI:

This present world is meant to determine who are God's people and who are not.  If a person is not one of God's children, he won't be in the kingdom of God.  We have a free will and we obey Him because we love him, and not because we are forced to obey.

Also, the spirit of evil will be destroyed forever.  God has forseen every thing from the beginning to infinity.

Quote

10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. 11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Quote

25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. 26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. 27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

God Bless

[TimothyVI]

Hi 942767,
Didn't his angels love him?
Could God not have destroyed the spirit of evil forever even then?

Tim

[942767]

Quote (TimothyVI @ July 29 2007,06:46)

Hi 942767, Didn't his angels love him? Could God not have destroyed the spirit of evil forever even then? Tim

Hi Tim VI:

God can obiously do any thing that he chooses, but his plan for the redemption of mankind had not been fulfilled at the time that the angels sinned.  It is not a matter of doing away with or destroying sin, but it is a matter of those who will obey God to do so out of a “free will”.

Jesus overcame sin and death and the grave, and it is through him that we are called into a relationship with God by exercising our freedom to come into a relationship with him if we so desire, and it is through the Word of God and the blood that we as born again believers will over come sin as well.

God is a wise God and his plan is a perfect plan, and there is no unrighteousness in Him.

God Bless

[TimothyVI]

Quote (942767 @ July 29 2007,07:59)

God is a wise God and his plan is a perfect plan, and there is no unrighteousness in Him. God Bless

Hi 94,

I am glad that you agree that His plan is a perfect plan.
Satan was part of His perfect plan. Nothing happens that God is not aware of.
I am unable to make Him seem so weak as to have failed in His creation.

Christians want to use their “free will” story in order to get God off the hook for all of the bad things that happen. God doesn't need to be gotten off the hook. He is in control. Thank God.
Tim

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