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Pierre,
How many times must we travel the same dead end track until the way is finally agreed upon?
Rev 13:1
And i stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.Here, two observations are made concerning this beasts attributes.
Both observations are not explained in precise detail to unconditionally confirm its exact makeup.
In other words, they are generalizations left open for confirmation through scriptures that must be found elsewhere.Observation #1> This beast has 7 heads & 10 horns upon which are 10 crowns.
Note: John does NOT tell if all 7 heads have horns, or, if, only one, or, only several heads have horns, upon which, are one crown for each one horn.
The amount of horns/crowns per head is not detailed herein. So it must be elsewhere in scripture.Observation #2> Upon this beasts heads, is, the name of blasphemy.
Note: Again, precise detail is left out.
Do all heads have this name of blasphemy, or, only some of the heads?
It might seem obvious, but, nevertheless, it is not confirmed outright in this passage as to whether or not all heads have this name thereon.
So, this too, is a generalization of the whole, thus making it, like the first observation, left open to confirm elsewhere in scripture.So, Pierre, observation #1
> You say that six heads have one horn & crown each, with one other head having three horns & crowns.> I say that only one head has ten horns & crowns.
Show me with scripture only, any scripture anywhere in the bible, your verses that back your interpretation, and i will then provide mine of which we will also dissect before moving on to the following verses in rev ch 13.
Remember, SCRIPTURE ONLY is to be provided for the reasons to the opposing explanations we hold.
ONLY SCRIPTURE IS ALLOWED, you can explain your provided scripture, but it must be scripture you are explaining and NOT a personal idea/concept.IF i am a false teacher as you say, and can not justify my position with related scripture, i will fail miserably….but…if you can not provide scripture to back your explanation, yet i can/do…then the “false” shoe is actually on the other foot.
I await your SCRIPTURE starting with observation #1…THEN, after you provide it, i will provide my relevant scripture.
Let us see who is self interpreting and who is not.
Addition…
Pierre, I have noticed that you have only mentioned/covered NINE horns/crowns here…
I was guessing that you have reserved the last crown/horn for the “eighth” head?
This can wait however…i just wanted to point this out, for this too needs explaining by you.
Pierre…..
WAIT WAIT WAIT !!!!!
I just noticed something in YOUR previous explanation that started this, which just doesn't add up Pierre…
This is YOUR original quote in Red from wakeups post:
[Color=Red]The beast in dan.7:4., Who is this beast?
the Rev 13;1/2 beast with seven heads;[/B]
You said to me on wakeups post that these beasts of Rev & Daniel were NOT the same????And insulted me for suggesting it.
Yet here, within that very same post, you said that they are the same?? And this, written even BEFORE you accused me of falsehood for saying that they were indeed the same beast!!!!
What is wrong with you man???
It only occurred to me…i was distracted by our clash.
HOW do you explain this now?
You seem to have TWO doctrines on this subject!!!!
You are all over the show man, this is not good.Are you unwell?
On medication?
If so, we can drop this, for you are obviously not in your right mind.Pierre,
I better post YOUR interpretation for a guideline before i go to bed.
I was answering by memory to your post, i should have read it again before posting this thread.
That way, i would have noticed that contradiction of yours earlier about the beast of rev 13:1-2 & Daniel ch 7 being the same, of which you then told me were NOT the same?Before we go any further…which is it?
Same beast or not the same?
This does not alter the argument btw, you still need to back the horns per head claim with scripture.HERE IS YOUR ORIGINAL INTERPRETATION I WAS DISAGREEING WITH CONCERNING THE AMOUNT OF HORNS ON THE BEASTS HEADS:
Group: Regular Members
Posts: 12297
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Posted: Feb. 29 2012,18:03 QUOTE
The statue: The four beasts: The meaning:The head of Gold; Babylonians.
Breast and arms of silver; LION
Medo-Persians.Belly and thighs of brass; BEAR Greeks
Legs of iron; Leopard Rome
feet and toes; dreadful and terrible; Romans./next generation out come ;Rome does not be taking over by
world power ,but one power comes out of it but not a single one a
coalition ,
The beast in dan.7:4., Who is this beast?the Rev 13;1/2 beast with seven heads;
Head 1/Egypt -one head one horn one crown
Head /2 Assyrian -one head -one horn -one crown
Head 3/Babylon -one head one horn-one crown
head 4/Medo-Persians one head -two horns -two crowns
head/5/ Greeks -one head -one horn -one crown
Head 6/ Roman-one head -one horn -one crown
Head 7/dreadful and terrible coalition power/extension including all previous powers (or left overs) ONE HEAD -THREE HORNS -THREE CROWNS
there is also an eighth power out of the seven;this take longer to explain;;
THIS GIVES SEVEN HEADS -TEN HORNS AND TEN CROWNS
notice that all world powers coming out of the sea in Daniel and in Revelation,
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 19 2012,05:43) devolution Quote I was answering by memory to your post, i should have read it again before posting this thread.
That way, i would have noticed that contradiction of yours earlier about the beast of rev 13:1-2 & Daniel ch 7 being the same, of which you then told me were NOT the same?I do not remember saying that to you ;but what i show in my description is that the fourth beast in Dan7 and the sixth head of the beast in Revelation is the same and as well as the legs and feet in the statue
Quote Pierre, Since you did not humble yourself and admit your error concerning the 10 horns on the 7 headed beast, how i showed you the scripture plainly stating that only one head out of the 7 had the 10 horns, not all 7 heads with the horns distributed amongst them as you self interpreted, i expect you to make your case first.
you never showed me were in scriptures it says this
Quote
Quote (Devolution @ Mar. 19 2012,00:02)
Pierre,Since you supposedly never saw my reply to the above post, here AGAIN is the scripture which UNDOES your self interpretation of every head having it's own horn & crown:
Daniel 7:19-20
19> Then i would know the truth of the fourth beast…etc
20> And of the TEN HORNS that were in IT'S HEAD….etcNotice that?….IN…IN…IN It's head…the fourth beast's head…fourth beast = ONE head….10 horns in IT'S head!!!!!! NOT all seven heads!!!!!
This is Gods written word…NOT MINE…So quoting all these corrupted versions of scripture at me means nothing.
Have you learnt nothing about the ongoing watering down and altering of the bible and by WHOM & WHY it is happening & has been happening SINCE the 1611 KJV?
DON”T you know which bible is CONFIRMED the most ACCURATE on the planet by the discovery of the dead sea scrolls???
1611 KJV….the ONLY ONE worth reading…100% UN-TAMPERED!!!
Even KJV's directly following that one are TAMPERED WITH….ALL the mainstream “Christian” world plays this stupid little game of comparing all these versions…the large flock loves doing this folly…
Can't you see that comparing corrupt versions with corrupt versions still bears the same result…and that is….confused corruption…Wake up Pierre…the doors are soon to slam shut….time is NOT on your side.
Go back to your first love Pierre…the truth!!
And THEN you might see what has become of your perceptions.this in no way can i understand what you are try to say or to prove beside confusion
Quote Pierre, So it is INSULTING is it??? What i have said to you is TAME compared to your free flowing insults & accusations.
Nevertheless….now you know how it feels.
Not nice to be spoken to that way now is it!!!
Maybe you should remember this feeling and know that this is how you guys make us feel so often…the above is your complain after you got me this ;;
Quote Pierre, Since you did not humble yourself and admit your error concerning the 10 horns on the 7 headed beast, how i showed you the scripture plainly stating that only one head out of the 7 had the 10 horns, not all 7 heads with the horns distributed amongst them as you self interpreted, i expect you to make your case first.
And since you did not admit your error, nor acknowledge it…i rightfully have the upper hand of justification from God, meaning i do not need answer your questions since you have already disregarded and ignored the plain scripture i gave you as you demonstrated by your silence on that matter and your now ongoing testing of me hoping to justify yourself in the process…
Know this, i need not justify myself to you, nevertheless i will answer you on this, but my answering you is a politeness i choose to undertake for now without being obligated under Gods commands concerning those who ignore His truths when shown to them as you certainly did, His guidelines on these matters thus freeing me of obligation towards answering you at all on any matter.
I do know where you are going with this question Pierre from the question itself, and already have the answer, nevertheless, declare your understanding for all to see, make your position clear so when i give you the answer, you do not then say that you knew it all along.
I will answer at my leisure, subject to my waning patience for all these unfruitful tail chasing debates i am reading.
and the above was in respond to my questions as follows;
Devolution
you never answered my question so here it is again;
NOW IT SAYS THAT BABYLON IS GUILTY OF ALL WHO HAVE BEEN KILLED ON THE EARTH ,RIGHT ? TELL ME HOW IS THIS TRUE IN YOUR EXPLANATION ,???
this question of mine you never answered ;
Quote Devolution Group: Members
Posts: 95
Joined: Dec. 2011
Posted: Mar. 18 2012,23:40
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 17 2012,18:11)So Pierre,
HERE is what YOU declared….of which YOU say i have LIED about & made up…HOW can one forget what one teaches as though he never taught it
??YOUR WORDS:
Group: Regular Members
Posts: 12297
Joined: Oct. 2009
Posted: Feb. 29 2012,18:03 QUOTE
The statue: The four beasts: The meaning:The head of Gold; Babylonians.
Breast and arms of silver; LION
Medo-Persians.Belly and thighs of brass; BEAR Greeks
Legs of iron; Leopard Rome
feet and toes;
dreadful and terrible; Romans./next generation out come ;Rome does not be taking over by
world power ,but one power comes out of it but not a single one a
coalition ,
The beast in dan.7:4., Who is this beast?the Rev 13;1/2 beast with seven heads;
Head 1/Egypt -one head one horn one crown
Head /2 Assyrian -one head -one horn -one crown
Head 3/Babylon -one head one horn-one crown
head 4/Medo-Persians one head -two horns -two crowns
head/5/ Greeks -one head -one horn -one crown
Head 6/ Roman-one head -one horn -one crown
Head 7/dreadful and terrible coalition power/extension including all previous powers (or left overs) ONE HEAD -THREE HORNS -THREE CROWNS
there is also an eighth power out of the seven;this take longer to explain;;
THIS GIVES SEVEN HEADS -TEN HORNS AND TEN CROWNS
notice that all world powers coming out of the sea in Daniel and in Revelation,
So there you have it.
I spoke TRUTH.
I did NOT lie or fabricate.Do you even forget the doctrines that you teach now do you?
Or does your doctrine merely change with the wind? Alter to suit the times or whoever YOU perceive to be “winning” a debate? As though it were about winning and not about the truth?Do you know what this means:
Luke 8:18
Take heed how ye hear, for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.Take heed Pierre…it seems that this is happening to you too…just like it DID with Goerg…
Back to toptell me how is it that you peaked the truth
???
you have not shown me telling a lie,so I ask you again;;Devolution
Show me were in scriptures it says that the ten horns and the ten crowns are on one head ?If you cannot then you will call me truthful and right
I know what I have said and written
If you show me that scriptures I will do what is required from me .
if you needed more input you could have simply ask me
Pierre,Before i give the scripture you asked for, just wanna say, i am no longer comfortable speaking the way i have been speaking to you.
It just doesn't feel right to behave this way, no matter how justified i felt by speaking thus in defense of my two brethren, it still didn't make it right.I humbly apologize if i have insulted you, The Lord teaches that we return insult to no man, but remain gentle and patient in longsuffering.
I have nothing against you personally, so again, i apologize for my harsh tone and hope we can move on from this little clash i initiated and debate on a more respectful level, for, no doubt, many more debates to come.
Here is scripture in Daniel that speaks of 10 horns.
Whenever the 10 horns are explained, it always comes back to this one certain beast.
And apart from Daniel, the only other place in scripture that identifies 10 horns directly just happens to be found in revelations.So Daniel & revelations are the two books mentioning these 10 horns openly.
That in itself shows that both books are speaking of this same thing, which no others are directly speaking of.
That means, they are complementing each other with information on the same subject.And this certain beast is just one head out of seven heads.
As you know, each head being a metaphoric beast.Daniel 7:19
Then i would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass, which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet.Daniel 7:20
And of the ten horns which were IN HIS head……IN His head, the 4th beast's head.
So it is only this head/empire that has the 10 horns.
One head, 10 horns.And i know you know that each head stands for a nation/empire.
So, by knowing this, it can only mean that out of the seven heads/empires, only one head has the 10 horns in it. Not 7 heads with the 10 horns divided amongst them.
But one head, 10 horns.Cheers.
Hi Devolution, did you watch the video like you said you would?
the Rev 13;1/2 beast with seven heads;
Head 1/ Egypt -one head one horn one crown
Head /2 Assyrian -one head -one horn -one crown
Head 3/ Babylon -one head one horn-one crown
head 4/ Medo-Persians one head -one horn -one crowns
head/5/ Greeks -one head -four horns -four crowns
Head 6/ Roman-one head -one horn -one crown
Head 7/ ottoman-one head -one horn -one crown
The ottoman empire is the seventh, and Muhammadin islam is the eithth. (Rev,17:11)
All of those countries are islam now. You need to read Psalm Chapter 83 to see this better.Dan 7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell(Greece);
even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)Reason for edit: When I copied it, I forgot to change the Med/Pers to only one horn.
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 20 2012,19:56) Hi Devolution, did you watch the video like you said you would? the Rev 13;1/2 beast with seven heads;
Head 1/ Egypt -one head one horn one crown
Head /2 Assyrian -one head -one horn -one crown
Head 3/ Babylon -one head one horn-one crown
head 4/ Medo-Persians one head -two horns -one crowns
head/5/ Greeks -one head -four horns -four crowns
Head 6/ Roman-one head -one horn -one crown
Head 7/ ottoman-one head -one horn -one crown
The ottoman empire is the seventh, and Muhammadin islam is the eithth. (Rev,17:11)
All of those countries are islam now. You need to read Psalm Chapter 83 to see this better.Dan 7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell(Greece);
even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
EDJ.
Egypt(one horn)But not mentioned in rev17 because its past.
Assyria(one Horn)But not mentioned in rev.17 because its past.
Babylon(one horn)not mentioned in rev 17.–because its past-
Persia(one horn)not mentioned in rev 17—because its past.
Greece(one horn)not mentioned in rev 17–because its past
Rome(one horn)not mentioned in rev 17.—because its past.The end time roman empire(the 7th)into the 8th(TEN HORNS)
kingdom of false prophet.He will uproot 3kings.Same beast as in Dan.7:7. the dreadful beast with 10 horns.
then a little horn come up(false prophet).will uproot 3 horns.
THE 10HORNS ARE ON THE –ONE– LAST HEAD.(last head 10 horns)Do not confuse it with the RED DRAGON,with the 7 heads and the 7 crowns.Rev 12:3.(7crowns = 7 empires)
Red dragon(satan) had control (authority over 7 empires in total.(7 crowns).today is his 7th crown(no more after this one)THE END OF SATAN.egypt,assyria,babylon, persia,greece,rome,AND THE 7TH IS THE KINGDOM OF THE END TIME ROME WHICH IS NOW,AND THE 8TH(which is of the 7th) IS COMING SOON,AND THIS ONE WILL HAVE 10 HORNS(kings)on the one head.
wakeup.
Hi Wake-up,
Greece was divided up into FOUR(by the four generals),
thus the four horns and four crowns. Know you history.
Later Rome conquered them, then the ottoman empire.
Muhammadin islam is the eighth. “ALL” are islamic now.Peace to you
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Mar. 20 2012,22:36) Hi Wake-up, Greece was divided up into FOUR(by the four generals),
thus the four horns and four crowns. Know you history.
Later Rome conquered them, then the ottoman empire.
Muhammadin islam is the eighth. “ALL” are islamic now.Peace to you
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EDJ.You should know by now that God does not mention every king in history. In this case he only mentioned one king in greece and that was alexander the gtreat.
God also did not mention king phiplip,alex.father.God also did not mention the names of all the kings of persia,did he? What about all the kings of rome???
All the kings of egypt???wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 20 2012,22:11) AND THE 7TH IS THE KINGDOM OF THE END TIME ROME WHICH IS NOW,AND THE 8TH(which is of the 7th) IS COMING SOON,AND THIS ONE WILL HAVE 10 HORNS(kings)on the one head. wakeup.
Hi Wake-up, you are pushing into the future what has already happened, look at this pattern in history…1. The messiah came and died for our sins …Judaism is waiting for the messiah
2. Jesus returned (in spirit form) at “Pentecost” …Christendom is awaiting Jesus' return
3. The seventy weeks of Daniel have been fulfilled …dispensationalists are waiting fulfillment
4. Both Revelation 13:1-3 and 13:11 have been fulfilled …wake-up waiting for Prophecy to be fulfilledAnd the list goes on. But I will stop here and wait
patiently for you to catch up with FULFILLED PROPHECY.Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.org
PS. Aren't you glad you asked me to join in on the Prophecy threads?Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 20 2012,22:59) Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 20 2012,22:11) AND THE 7TH IS THE KINGDOM OF THE END TIME ROME WHICH IS NOW,AND THE 8TH(which is of the 7th) IS COMING SOON,AND THIS ONE WILL HAVE 10 HORNS(kings)on the one head. wakeup.
Hi Wake-up, you are pushing into the future what has already happened, look at this pattern in history…1. The messiah came and died for our sins …Judaism is waiting for the messiah
2. Jesus returned (in spirit form) at “Pentecost” …Christendom is awaiting Jesus' return
3. The seventy weeks of Daniel have been fulfilled …dispensationalists are waiting fulfillment
4. Both Revelation 13:1-3 and 13:11 have been fulfilled …wake-up waiting for Prophecy to be fulfilledAnd the list goes on. But I will stop here and wait
patiently for you to catch up with FULFILLED PROPHECY.Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.org
PS. Aren't you glad you asked me to join in on the Prophecy threads?
Edj.This is good; for not many can join in,because of lack of knowledge.I am well equipped in this matter; without boasting.
If all the prophesies has been fulfilled, then we can relax and put up our feet and fall asleep.
What if suddenly it will look you in your face; what then?
Watch for the deceptions.The 10kings are here but not in the open yet; they are working behind our backs at the moment.They will show themselves soon enough, and a little later,the little horn will come up,and the 10kings will give him their power and strenght.(rev17:13).
The dreadful beast in Daniel, with the 10 horns= the wounded beast in rev13. The beast that came out of the earth=the little horn in Daniel(the false prophet in rev19:20).cast in the lake of fire=the lake of fire in Daniel 7:11.
wakeup.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 20 2012,23:33)
This is good; for not many can join in,because of lack of knowledge.I am well equipped in this matter; without boasting.If all the prophesies has been fulfilled, then we can relax and put up our feet and fall asleep.
Hi Wakeup,Don't put 'spin' on my words!
I didn't say “ALL” Prophecy was fulfilled.Not nice
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Wakeup @ Mar. 20 2012,23:33) What if suddenly it will look you in your face; what then?
Hi Wakeup,What about you realizing I was correct?
Does your street only go one way?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Mar. 20 2012,23:40) Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 20 2012,23:33) What if suddenly it will look you in your face; what then?
Hi Wakeup,What about you realizing I was correct?
Does your street only go one way?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EdJ.yes, I realise that you are still waiting for the mahdi to come.
The ottoman empire to come back.Well you will be surprise when you see him not wearing a tulban.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 20 2012,23:47) EdJ. yes, I realise that you are still waiting for the mahdi to come.
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,That is BS, you realize wrong.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Mar. 20 2012,23:58) Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 20 2012,23:47) EdJ. yes, I realise that you are still waiting for the mahdi to come.
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,That is BS, you realize wrong.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EDJ.Are you waiting for the false mesiah to come WEARING A TULBAN like all the chief muslems do?
Please tell me.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 21 2012,00:15) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 20 2012,23:58) Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 20 2012,23:47) EdJ. yes, I realise that you are still waiting for the mahdi to come.
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,That is BS, you realize wrong.
God bless
Ed J
EDJ.Are you waiting for the false mesiah to come WEARING A TULBAN like all the chief muslems do?
Please tell me.wakeup.
Shalom Wakeup,What part of that is BS do you not understand? …do you know what “BS” means?
B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 21 2012,00:19) Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 21 2012,00:15) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 20 2012,23:58) Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 20 2012,23:47) EdJ. yes, I realise that you are still waiting for the mahdi to come.
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,That is BS, you realize wrong.
God bless
Ed J
EDJ.Are you waiting for the false mesiah to come WEARING A TULBAN like all the chief muslems do?
Please tell me.wakeup.
Shalom Wakeup,What part of that is BS do you not understand? …do you know what “BS” means?
B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)
EDJ.As far as i am concern it means back stabbing,what goes it mean to you?
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 21 2012,00:26) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 21 2012,00:19) Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 21 2012,00:15) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 20 2012,23:58) Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 20 2012,23:47) EdJ. yes, I realise that you are still waiting for the mahdi to come.
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup,That is BS, you realize wrong.
God bless
Ed J
EDJ.Are you waiting for the false mesiah to come WEARING A TULBAN like all the chief muslems do?
Please tell me.wakeup.
Shalom Wakeup,What part of that is BS do you not understand? …do you know what “BS” means?
B'shem, יהוה (YÄ-hä-vā)
עד (Ed) (Joshua 22:34)
EDJ.As far as i am concern it means back stabbing,what goes it mean to you?
wakeup.
Hi Waheup,What does “BS” mean? (Click on this link)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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