- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 09 2007,16:55) Hi Morningstar Quote What Christianity really is (and I know all organizations claim their understandings that each conflict, but specificaly just using the teachings of Jesus) is to believe Christ and follow his example. His doctrine is for us to put love first. To God and to each other. This gets alot of lip service and little practical application by “churchianity”.
Did Jesus say it or Paul invent it, the command to hate ones family in order to follow Jesus?Quote The things the world hates Christianity for are often things Jesus himself taught against;
Christians are not to be involved in politics. We are not of this world. We have our own King and are just sojourners passing through.
That is why christian fundamentalists cannot be trusted. Their loyalties do not reside with their fellow humans. To claim your own king is a kind of treason. I would add it is a delusion.Have you come across this site before? (I don’t endorse it myself):
http://www.atheists-for-jesus.com/about.php
Stuart
hating ones family for Jesus.If you honestly evaluated what that meant I don't think you would use it as fodder anymore against Jesus.
Jesus speaks of bringing not peace but a sword. Not a “literal” sword but a rebellion or revolution that “DIVIDES” people. Those to whom love the world and it's selfish and evil ways and those who follow Christ leaving that all behind.
This “Hate” this “Sword” if evaluated honestly, no matter how tempting it is for unbelievers to use it against Christ, is taking the subject matter completely out of context.
Jesus message of love is overwhelming obvious in scripture and is emphasized dramatically more often than another other world religion.
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 09 2007,16:55) Hi Morningstar Quote What Christianity really is (and I know all organizations claim their understandings that each conflict, but specificaly just using the teachings of Jesus) is to believe Christ and follow his example. His doctrine is for us to put love first. To God and to each other. This gets alot of lip service and little practical application by “churchianity”.
Did Jesus say it or Paul invent it, the command to hate ones family in order to follow Jesus?Quote The things the world hates Christianity for are often things Jesus himself taught against;
Christians are not to be involved in politics. We are not of this world. We have our own King and are just sojourners passing through.Have you come across this site before? (I don’t endorse it myself):
http://www.atheists-for-jesus.com/about.php
Stuart
you say:That is why christian fundamentalists cannot be trusted. Their loyalties do not reside with their fellow humans. To claim your own king is a kind of treason. I would add it is a delusion.
I would agree that fundamentalists cannot always be trusted because they do not understand the teachings of Christ and twist them to suit their needs on creating the version of the Kingdom of God on earth by their cultures, morals and their laws.
Jesus says the Kingdom is “within” you. The bible tells us a “literal” kingdom will come, but for now it is in man.
As for the treason charge, hey count me guilty. I render unto the law what is demanded of me. However, I have no loyality to a body of human goverment, but I DO have a strong moral loyality to my fellow man.
Seriously Stu, do you really believe in devout loyality to human goverments? That to me seems delusional. I suspect for this reason that is not what you meant. Instead I most likely, think you meant loyalty to humans.
Well, that is the entire message of Christ summed up. Love your neighbor like yourself EVEN YOUR ENEMIES.
Don't confuse the imposters with the real deal. I am not talking about doctrine I am talking about those who live as Christ taught. Mother Theresea comes to mind.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 11 2007,05:36) Hi Stu,
So God has treated you well. Yet you hate Him because you have read how He treated others?
And Voldemort and Dracula have both been generous in the mercy they have shown you, Nick.If the monster described in the OT, responsible (by the evidence of the writing allegedly inspired by him) of between 2,000,000 and 32,000,000 killings actually existed, I think I would be keen to bring him to justice. Not only do you not share my sense of outrage at him, you worship him. My blood pressure is even on the issue though because your god is a figment of your imagination, as are the gods of all the others who post here, and in fact all the gods you don't believe in as well.
Stuart
Hi Morningstar
Stu: That is why christian fundamentalists cannot be trusted. Their loyalties do not reside with their fellow humans. To claim your own king is a kind of treason. I would add it is a delusion.
Quote I would agree that fundamentalists cannot always be trusted because they do not understand the teachings of Christ and twist them to suit their needs on creating the version of the Kingdom of God on earth by their cultures, morals and their laws. ..Don't confuse the imposters with the real deal. I am not talking about doctrine I am talking about those who live as Christ taught. Mother Theresea comes to mind.
Mother Theresa took every opportunity to proselytise her fundamentalist catholicism and was a believer in suffering. If you were in a desparate situation in Calcutta would you want to be cared for by someone who believed suffering was good for you? I personally never saw how her charity organisation worked but he way she is described by some who worked with her, Jesus would have been appalled by her lack of compassion. I know it is easy to knock people but I think there are many unsung heroes, with faith or none, who are doing fantastic work in communities without the kind of grandstanding that MT indulged in. As with the pope, you might even ask how many deaths she is responsible for through her parroting of the Catholic line on reproductive controls.Quote As for the treason charge, hey count me guilty. I render unto the law what is demanded of me. However, I have no loyality to a body of human goverment, but I DO have a strong moral loyality to my fellow man.
Would you give up what you believe to be your opportunity for ‘salvation’ in order to save another human life?Quote Seriously Stu, do you really believe in devout loyality to human goverments? That to me seems delusional. I suspect for this reason that is not what you meant. Instead I most likely, think you meant loyalty to humans.
Yes, the treason charge is an aside but a point remains to be made about democracy. I do think there is an element of hypocrisy in the way some fundamentalists protest against things like movies, TV or theatre productions in a way that indicates they do not share common values with society; they use their free speech to try and limit others’ free speech. The most risible of all is the protests against the secular nature of society. They would like everyone to march to their political tune but can’t imagine what it would be like if they had to conform to someone else’s equivalently austere ideology.Quote Well, that is the entire message of Christ summed up. Love your neighbor like yourself EVEN YOUR ENEMIES.
It is a pity that Jesus, or those who wrote his speeches after his death, have failed to convince humanity of the virtue of this principle. Could it be a basic lack of understanding of human nature on their part that has caused this failure?Stuart
Stu, I can't remember, are you an agnostic or an athiest. I had thought you were an agnostic, but you may as well just call yourself an athiest, because if you are actually an agnostic, you're a rather foolish one.
Agnosticism is the position of believing that knowledge of the existence or non-existence of God is impossible.
But if you can't be certain of the existence of God, if you actually can't be 100% certain, you are very foolish in your words. If a blind person was in a courtroom and he wasn't certain if the judge was in the room or not, he would have to be foolish to yell out that the judge is a monster. You, are a foolish person. Or simply wrong on what you call yourself.My other question: Those 40% of scientists who believe in God…what do you make of them…stupid? Do they just not see what you do? Are they slow? What?
David
Quote I can't remember, are you an agnostic or an athiest. I had thought you were an agnostic, but you may as well just call yourself an athiest, because if you are actually an agnostic, you're a rather foolish one. OK, I’m an atheist then. Whatever you like. It makes no difference to my views what I call myself, or what insults you choose to deal out.
Quote Agnosticism is the position of believing that knowledge of the existence or non-existence of God is impossible.
But if you can't be certain of the existence of God, if you actually can't be 100% certain, you are very foolish in your words.Are you talking about my words specifically, or any agnostic’s words? For all practical purposes I am an atheist. My working assumption is there is no god, and all my observations bear this out. Philosophically I am agnostic because all people, especially those who proclaim the first-rate knowledge provided by science, should appreciate that all non-mathematical knowledge is provisional, including the proposition that there is no god. I consider you to be agnostic because you cannot demonstrate the existence of god and thus cannot show that it is not a delusion. You are also agnostic on the question of non-Judeo-christian gods, because you cannot demonstrate that they do not exist.
Quote If a blind person was in a courtroom and he wasn't certain if the judge was in the room or not, he would have to be foolish to yell out that the judge is a monster. You, are a foolish person. Or simply wrong on what you call yourself. Pascal’s Wager with insult added. Nice. If standing up for principles of justice is foolish then so be it, but if the blind man is shouting the truth, what kind of monstrous ‘judge’ would then condemn him for it? One without principle who by his own admission had killed at least 2,000,000 people? What moral right would such a judge have to judge others?
Quote My other question: Those 40% of scientists who believe in God…what do you make of them…stupid? Do they just not see what you do? Are they slow? What? Regardless of occupation, I think all those who believe in a god have created an imaginary friend for themselves. There is such a variety of imaginary friends (a different god for each person essentially) that a generalisation would not be appropriate. A few are fundamentalist, many are deist and lots like the idea of ‘being nice to others’ without actually believing the fictions that someone was born of a virgin, could walk on water without support and walked again after his own death.
In the case of some scientists who are also genuinely religious believers I wonder whether they compartmentalise their brains to stop the empirical part meeting the faith part.
Stuart
Hi stu,
Yes there is documentary EVIDENCE that a man walked on water, healed the sick and was raised from the dead.
You may choose not to believe it but for us it is further assurance that the God who spoke with Moses and Abram loves men and wants them to enjoy that love eternally with Him.So you believe in nothing except what your eyes have seen and accepted and understood.
We believe in the Word of God and it's many witnesses to these truths.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 13 2007,11:55) Hi stu,
Yes there is documentary EVIDENCE that a man walked on water, healed the sick and was raised from the dead.
You may choose not to believe it but for us it is further assurance that the God who spoke with Moses and Abram loves men and wants them to enjoy that love eternally with Him.So you believe in nothing except what your eyes have seen and accepted and understood.
We believe in the Word of God and it's many witnesses to these truths.
What evidence?Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 12 2007,22:20) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 13 2007,11:55) Hi stu,
Yes there is documentary EVIDENCE that a man walked on water, healed the sick and was raised from the dead.
You may choose not to believe it but for us it is further assurance that the God who spoke with Moses and Abram loves men and wants them to enjoy that love eternally with Him.So you believe in nothing except what your eyes have seen and accepted and understood.
We believe in the Word of God and it's many witnesses to these truths.
What evidence?Stuart
The Greek Christian text of course!Hey, remember when you were a kid and 'special effects' were so awesome and 'realistic' back then? If you watch an old move, it looks so fake now. I'm sure sleight-of-hand and parlor tricks impressed the simple people of the 1st century quite sufficiently.
Hi Tow,
So the writings are genuine but manufactured for some strange satanic purpose.
Quite an elaborate piece of work then with clever literary collaboration between uneducated men?Well I guess you would have to say that would you not?
What of the miracles of the OT
All fake too?Nick Watch out Satan just got himself some help. This happend before and 5 people left. I know one that does not believe in Jesus being the Messiah anymore. So sad.
Peace and Love Mrs.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 13 2007,16:14) Hi Im4,
What is to fear?
“He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world”
How smug can one get?Stuart
Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 13 2007,15:30) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 12 2007,22:20) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 13 2007,11:55) Hi stu,
Yes there is documentary EVIDENCE that a man walked on water, healed the sick and was raised from the dead.
You may choose not to believe it but for us it is further assurance that the God who spoke with Moses and Abram loves men and wants them to enjoy that love eternally with Him.So you believe in nothing except what your eyes have seen and accepted and understood.
We believe in the Word of God and it's many witnesses to these truths.
What evidence?Stuart
The Greek Christian text of course!Hey, remember when you were a kid and 'special effects' were so awesome and 'realistic' back then? If you watch an old move, it looks so fake now. I'm sure sleight-of-hand and parlor tricks impressed the simple people of the 1st century quite sufficiently.
I'm sure Derrin Brown could pass himself off as the second coming. What he does is to demonstrate how easy it is for humans to be duped, and of course he freely admits that what he is doing is just understanding how people's minds work better than the owners of those minds do.Stuart
Quote (IM4Truth @ Dec. 12 2007,23:01) Nick Watch out Satan just got himself some help. This happend before and 5 people left. I know one that does not believe in Jesus being the Messiah anymore. So sad.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Hey don't blame me and the man in the red suit, blame the poorly written Christian Greek text and the ones who wrote it. I just merely pointed out the numerous holes it had in it.Quote (Towshab @ Dec. 14 2007,00:23) Quote (IM4Truth @ Dec. 12 2007,23:01) Nick Watch out Satan just got himself some help. This happend before and 5 people left. I know one that does not believe in Jesus being the Messiah anymore. So sad.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Hey don't blame me and the man in the red suit, blame the poorly written Christian Greek text and the ones who wrote it. I just merely pointed out the numerous holes it had in it.
I don't blame you no more than I blame Judas. Someone had to do God's will so God's will would be done.
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 13 2007,16:40) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 13 2007,16:14) Hi Im4,
What is to fear?
“He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world”
How smug can one get?Stuart
Hi Stu,
These are Paul's words spoken in the Spirit of Christ.
Do you judge the Spirit of God as smug?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 14 2007,05:17) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 13 2007,16:40) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 13 2007,16:14) Hi Im4,
What is to fear?
“He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world”
How smug can one get?Stuart
Hi Stu,
These are Paul's words spoken in the Spirit of Christ.
Do you judge the Spirit of God as smug?
I think Jesus, if he existed, would have cringed at the marketing campaign promoting self-righteousness that Paul embarked on.The spirit of god is illusion. It is his christian followers who show smugness as they accumulate points on their christian club cards.
Stuart
Hi Stu,
It was actually John who wrote the words inspired by the Spirit of God.
1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.But if you do not know the Spirit of God you cannot perceive the beauty of inspired scripture nor have any clue of the ways of our God.
But best to respect others than judge them for what you cannot see-unless you can see everything.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
