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Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 06 2013,16:03) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 06 2013,15:42) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 06 2013,14:57) Keith,
you said:Quote The scriptures declare the Holy Spirit as a living entity that recieves, hears, speaks, glorifies, teaches, comforts, grieves, can be blasphemed and is subject to Jesus and the Father. The definition of something with those attributes is a living person and not some force or power. Our spirit (the one common to man) is also a living entity that receives, hears, speaks, glorifies, teaches, comforts, grieves, can be abused and is subject to our will also, yet our spirit is not another person or some non-personal force or non-personal power.
But we are not God Kathi, and I never said the Holy Spirit is some non-personal force or non-personal power. That is what the JWs believe.I simply believe God is Spirit and the Lord is that Spirit, yet we read that the Father and Jesus will send the Holy Spirit and we read that there is only “One Spirit”.
Coupled with Math 28:19 where Jesus puts the Holy Spirit there with him and the Father as having a name as well and many other scriptures that imply the Spirit is a person, IMO the only way to reconcile all the scriptures is the Trinitarian view.
Keith
I believe that there is another way to reconcile those scriptures and that is by equating the Holy Spirit as the united omnipresence of the Father and the Son. A spirit that is within them as well as flows from them.As far as the Spirit being mentioned as part of the great commission with the Father and the Son…I believe the Spirit may be mentioned with the Father and Son because it is their united omnipresent Spirit which we are immersed in (baptized in). That is how we can have fellowship with the TWO and how the TWO dwell within us…by their united omnipresent Spirit, yet They remain in heaven.
KathiBut God himself is Omnipresent as the scriptures teach. Therefore the Spirit of God is God.
The Lord is that Spirit. There is Only One Spirit of God not God who has a Spirit within that Spirit for that would be two or three Spirits counting Jesus.
Keith
Keith,
you said:Quote I never said the Holy Spirit is some non-personal force or non-personal power.
I never said that you profess that, I was just clarifying it so you would realize that I am also not saying the Holy Spirit is a non-personal force or power either; which seemed to be implied by you in your previous post as the only other option if someone doesn't see the Holy Spirit as a distinct person from the Father and the Son.Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 06 2013,16:22) Keith,
you said:Quote I never said the Holy Spirit is some non-personal force or non-personal power.
I never said that you profess that, I was just clarifying it so you would realize that I am also not saying the Holy Spirit is a non-personal force or power either; which seemed to be implied by you in your previous post as the only other option if someone doesn't see the Holy Spirit as a distinct person from the Father and the Son.
Well if he is not a distinct person then the words of Jesus saying the Father and himself will send the Spirit makes no sense IMO because they did not send themselves did they?WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 06 2013,16:21) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 06 2013,16:03) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 06 2013,15:42) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 06 2013,14:57) Keith,
you said:Quote The scriptures declare the Holy Spirit as a living entity that recieves, hears, speaks, glorifies, teaches, comforts, grieves, can be blasphemed and is subject to Jesus and the Father. The definition of something with those attributes is a living person and not some force or power. Our spirit (the one common to man) is also a living entity that receives, hears, speaks, glorifies, teaches, comforts, grieves, can be abused and is subject to our will also, yet our spirit is not another person or some non-personal force or non-personal power.
But we are not God Kathi, and I never said the Holy Spirit is some non-personal force or non-personal power. That is what the JWs believe.I simply believe God is Spirit and the Lord is that Spirit, yet we read that the Father and Jesus will send the Holy Spirit and we read that there is only “One Spirit”.
Coupled with Math 28:19 where Jesus puts the Holy Spirit there with him and the Father as having a name as well and many other scriptures that imply the Spirit is a person, IMO the only way to reconcile all the scriptures is the Trinitarian view.
Keith
I believe that there is another way to reconcile those scriptures and that is by equating the Holy Spirit as the united omnipresence of the Father and the Son. A spirit that is within them as well as flows from them.As far as the Spirit being mentioned as part of the great commission with the Father and the Son…I believe the Spirit may be mentioned with the Father and Son because it is their united omnipresent Spirit which we are immersed in (baptized in). That is how we can have fellowship with the TWO and how the TWO dwell within us…by their united omnipresent Spirit, yet They remain in heaven.
KathiBut God himself is Omnipresent as the scriptures teach. Therefore the Spirit of God is God.
The Lord is that Spirit. There is Only One Spirit of God not God who has a Spirit within that Spirit for that would be two or three Spirits counting Jesus.
Keith
Keith,
Yes, God is omnipresent…but He is omnipresent through His very spirit within Him that transcends His physical presence. Otherwise Jesus would not have to GO to heaven to be with His Father and could not be on only one side of His Father. There would be no sides to the Father, etc.The term 'spirit' has different meanings. It can mean a type of body-spirit as opposed to flesh. And it can mean one part of a tripart being-body, soul, and spirit. It can mean the emotions of an occasion, such as the 'spirit' of the gathering was so thick with tension, you could cut it with a knife, etc.
Also, many people's spirits can be united as one, therefore, spirits are something that can be one.
The Spirit of the Son is not the Spirit of the Father. Although they both have the Spirit of an eternal God.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 06 2013,16:26) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 06 2013,16:22) Keith,
you said:Quote I never said the Holy Spirit is some non-personal force or non-personal power.
I never said that you profess that, I was just clarifying it so you would realize that I am also not saying the Holy Spirit is a non-personal force or power either; which seemed to be implied by you in your previous post as the only other option if someone doesn't see the Holy Spirit as a distinct person from the Father and the Son.
Well if he is not a distinct person then the words of Jesus saying the Father and himself will send the Spirit makes no sense IMO because they did not send themselves did they?WJ
They did not send their physical presence, they sent their omnipresence. They abide in heaven but by their Spirit-their omnipresence, they abide within us.Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 06 2013,16:40) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 06 2013,16:26) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 06 2013,16:22) Keith,
you said:Quote I never said the Holy Spirit is some non-personal force or non-personal power.
I never said that you profess that, I was just clarifying it so you would realize that I am also not saying the Holy Spirit is a non-personal force or power either; which seemed to be implied by you in your previous post as the only other option if someone doesn't see the Holy Spirit as a distinct person from the Father and the Son.
Well if he is not a distinct person then the words of Jesus saying the Father and himself will send the Spirit makes no sense IMO because they did not send themselves did they?WJ
They did not send their physical presence, they sent their omnipresence. They abide in heaven but by their Spirit-their omnipresence, they abide within us.
Then what physical presence was David speaking of when he said where his spirit was so was God?
This simply means the Spirit is God! If Gods Omnipresence can be every where and see all things and know all things and the Father and Jesus must dwell in heaven then that means the Spirit would be greater than the Father and Jesus.
The Father and Jesus are God and can be everywhere at the same time. Matt 18:20, John 14:23
So their Omnipresence can hear, speak, grieve, etc and yet not be God?
So their Omnipresence hears from Jesus and takes from him and gives to us? John 16:13, 14
So their Omnipresence Glorifies the Son?
God dwells in me by his Spirit because the Spirit is God.
Blessings!
Keith
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 05 2013,11:44) Quote (abe @ Aug. 05 2013,11:57) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2013,07:26) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 03 2013,11:15) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2013,03:59) Quote (2besee @ Aug. 03 2013,05:32) The one and the same spirit is called: The Spirit of God,
The Holy Spirit,
The Eternal Spirit,
The Spirit of Christ,
The Spirit of the Son.As Paul explained, there is only ONE SPIRIT – it us ONE AND THE SAME SPIRIT.
If you do not include the “spirit of the antichrist” in with this “one spirit”, then what makes you think you can include the “spirit of Christ” with the “Holy Spirit”?
Hi Mike,I don't think 2Besee will understand your question. This is an easier way to put it…
“Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us,
and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in
subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?” (Heb 12:9)Which of these spirits is “the spirit of Christ”?
1. The Father of Spirits
2. Spirits that the Father of spirits is father of.I say the “HolySpirit” is #1, and
“the spirit of Christ” is #2;
what say you Mike?
Well done, Ed.I agree that the spirit of Christ is one of the many spirits the Father of Spirits is the Father of.
I disagree that the Holy Spirit IS the Father of Spirits. Instead, it is the spirit OF the Father of Spirits.
Hi Mike,Amen.
Ec.12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Peace brother……
abewhat about the wicked men does his corrupted spirit goes to God as well
if you say yes ,where in scriptures it says that God collects wickedness
if you say no ,then were do they go
Hi T,Ex.4:10 Then Moses said to the LORD, “Please, Lord, I have never been eloquent, neither recently nor in time past, nor since You have spoken to Your servant; for I am slow of speech and slow of tongue.” 11The LORD said to him, “Who has made man's mouth? Or who makes [him] mute or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the LORD? 12″Now then go, and I, even I, will be with your mouth, and teach you what you are to say.” 13But he said, “Please, Lord, now send [the message] by whomever You will.”
14Then the anger of the LORD burned against Moses, and He said, “Is there not your brother Aaron the Levite? I know that he speaks fluently. And moreover, behold, he is coming out to meet you; when he sees you, he will be glad in his heart. 15″You are to speak to him and put the words in his mouth; and I, even I, will be with your mouth and his mouth, and I will teach you what you are to do. 16″Moreover, he shall speak for you to the people; and he will be as a mouth for you and you will be as God to him.Prov.16:1 The plans of the heart belong to man, But the answer of the tongue is from the LORD.
Prov.18:9 The mind of man plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.
Prov.19:21 Many plans are in a man's heart, But the counsel of the LORD will stand.
:22 What is desirable in a man is his kindness, And it is better to be a poor man than a liar.Lk.12:11 “When they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not worry about how or what you are to speak in your defense, or what you are to say; 12for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.”
(Quote)
what about the wicked men does his corrupted spirit goes to God as well
if you say yes ,where in scriptures it says that God collects wickedness
if you say no ,then were do they goMy Guess?? Back to their father the devil.??
Ec.12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
I believe God.
Gen.1:1 1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.In the beginning God ‘Created’
And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Please show me where the Spirit of God was ‘Not' Created?
Peace brother..
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 05 2013,11:44) Quote (abe @ Aug. 05 2013,11:57) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2013,07:26) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 03 2013,11:15) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2013,03:59) Quote (2besee @ Aug. 03 2013,05:32) The one and the same spirit is called: The Spirit of God,
The Holy Spirit,
The Eternal Spirit,
The Spirit of Christ,
The Spirit of the Son.As Paul explained, there is only ONE SPIRIT – it us ONE AND THE SAME SPIRIT.
If you do not include the “spirit of the antichrist” in with this “one spirit”, then what makes you think you can include the “spirit of Christ” with the “Holy Spirit”?
Hi Mike,I don't think 2Besee will understand your question. This is an easier way to put it…
“Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us,
and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in
subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?” (Heb 12:9)Which of these spirits is “the spirit of Christ”?
1. The Father of Spirits
2. Spirits that the Father of spirits is father of.I say the “HolySpirit” is #1, and
“the spirit of Christ” is #2;
what say you Mike?
Well done, Ed.I agree that the spirit of Christ is one of the many spirits the Father of Spirits is the Father of.
I disagree that the Holy Spirit IS the Father of Spirits. Instead, it is the spirit OF the Father of Spirits.
Hi Mike,Amen.
Ec.12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Peace brother……
abewhat about the wicked men does his corrupted spirit goes to God as well
if you say yes ,where in scriptures it says that God collects wickedness
if you say no ,then were do they go
Hi T,Ex.4:10 Then Moses said to the LORD, “Please, Lord, I have never been eloquent, neither recently nor in time past, nor since You have spoken to Your servant; for I am slow of speech and slow of tongue.” 11The LORD said to him, “Who has made man's mouth? Or who makes [him] mute or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the LORD? 12″Now then go, and I, even I, will be with your mouth, and teach you what you are to say.” 13But he said, “Please, Lord, now send [the message] by whomever You will.”
14Then the anger of the LORD burned against Moses, and He said, “Is there not your brother Aaron the Levite? I know that he speaks fluently. And moreover, behold, he is coming out to meet you; when he sees you, he will be glad in his heart. 15″You are to speak to him and put the words in his mouth; and I, even I, will be with your mouth and his mouth, and I will teach you what you are to do. 16″Moreover, he shall speak for you to the people; and he will be as a mouth for you and you will be as God to him.Prov.16:1 The plans of the heart belong to man, But the answer of the tongue is from the LORD.
Prov.18:9 The mind of man plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.
Prov.19:21 Many plans are in a man's heart, But the counsel of the LORD will stand.
:22 What is desirable in a man is his kindness, And it is better to be a poor man than a liar.Lk.12:11 “When they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not worry about how or what you are to speak in your defense, or what you are to say; 12for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.”
(Quote)
what about the wicked men does his corrupted spirit goes to God as well
if you say yes ,where in scriptures it says that God collects wickedness
if you say no ,then were do they goMy Guess?? Back to their father the devil.??
Ec.12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
I believe God.
Gen.1:1 1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.In the beginning God ‘Created’
And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Please show me where the Spirit of God was ‘Not' Created?
Peace brother..
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 06 2013,09:34) So you see Mike, our Spirit is who we are and you cannot separate the Soul from the Spirit of man, only Gods word can. Heb 4:12
Good scriptures, Keith. What I see is how other people's spirits are metaphorically personified, as if they are separate entities from the person himself. Hmmmmm…………. the same can be said about God's Spirit, right?But I still want an answer as to WHOSE spirit David was talking about in that psalm. Was it God's spirit he was talking about?
As for the “connection” you are trying to make between “your spirit” and “you”, it is metaphorical. Anywhere that God sends His Spirit is a place that God METAPHORICALLY is Himself……….. even though He never literally left heaven to be at that place.
Quote (abe @ Aug. 07 2013,05:08) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 05 2013,11:44) Quote (abe @ Aug. 05 2013,11:57) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2013,07:26) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 03 2013,11:15) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2013,03:59) Quote (2besee @ Aug. 03 2013,05:32) The one and the same spirit is called: The Spirit of God,
The Holy Spirit,
The Eternal Spirit,
The Spirit of Christ,
The Spirit of the Son.As Paul explained, there is only ONE SPIRIT – it us ONE AND THE SAME SPIRIT.
If you do not include the “spirit of the antichrist” in with this “one spirit”, then what makes you think you can include the “spirit of Christ” with the “Holy Spirit”?
Hi Mike,I don't think 2Besee will understand your question. This is an easier way to put it…
“Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us,
and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in
subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?” (Heb 12:9)Which of these spirits is “the spirit of Christ”?
1. The Father of Spirits
2. Spirits that the Father of spirits is father of.I say the “HolySpirit” is #1, and
“the spirit of Christ” is #2;
what say you Mike?
Well done, Ed.I agree that the spirit of Christ is one of the many spirits the Father of Spirits is the Father of.
I disagree that the Holy Spirit IS the Father of Spirits. Instead, it is the spirit OF the Father of Spirits.
Hi Mike,Amen.
Ec.12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Peace brother……
abewhat about the wicked men does his corrupted spirit goes to God as well
if you say yes ,where in scriptures it says that God collects wickedness
if you say no ,then were do they go
Hi T,Ex.4:10 Then Moses said to the LORD, “Please, Lord, I have never been eloquent, neither recently nor in time past, nor since You have spoken to Your servant; for I am slow of speech and slow of tongue.” 11The LORD said to him, “Who has made man's mouth? Or who makes [him] mute or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the LORD? 12″Now then go, and I, even I, will be with your mouth, and teach you what you are to say.” 13But he said, “Please, Lord, now send [the message] by whomever You will.”
14Then the anger of the LORD burned against Moses, and He said, “Is there not your brother Aaron the Levite? I know that he speaks fluently. And moreover, behold, he is coming out to meet you; when he sees you, he will be glad in his heart. 15″You are to speak to him and put the words in his mouth; and I, even I, will be with your mouth and his mouth, and I will teach you what you are to do. 16″Moreover, he shall speak for you to the people; and he will be as a mouth for you and you will be as God to him.Prov.16:1 The plans of the heart belong to man, But the answer of the tongue is from the LORD.
Prov.18:9 The mind of man plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.
Prov.19:21 Many plans are in a man's heart, But the counsel of the LORD will stand.
:22 What is desirable in a man is his kindness, And it is better to be a poor man than a liar.Lk.12:11 “When they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not worry about how or what you are to speak in your defense, or what you are to say; 12for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.”
(Quote)
what about the wicked men does his corrupted spirit goes to God as well
if you say yes ,where in scriptures it says that God collects wickedness
if you say no ,then were do they goMy Guess?? Back to their father the devil.??
Ec.12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
I believe God.
Gen.1:1 1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.In the beginning God ‘Created’
And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Please show me where the Spirit of God was ‘Not' Created?
Peace brother..
abeECC 3:19 For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity.
ECC 3:21 Who knows that the breath of man ascends upward and the breath of the beast descends downward to the earth?Ecc 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it.27 For it would be better for us to be captured by them. We shall indeed become slaves, but our lives will be spared, and we shall not witness our little ones dying before our eyes, and our wives and children drawing their last breath.
2Mac 3:31 Some of Heliodorus's friends quickly begged Onias to call upon the Most High to grant life to one who was lying quite at his last breath. 9 And when h
e was at his last breath, he said, “You accursed wretch, you dismiss us from this present life, but the King of the universe will raise us up to an everlasting renewal of life, because we have died for his lawsunderstand that what God give to Adam was the breath of life (called spirit ) in his nostrils,
it is the starting lung function this is what God gives to Adam and when men breath their last breath it is like that God stopped it ,he does because scriptures says that he hold men life in his power ,can a men extend his days NO, only the fools short it .Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 06 2013,17:30) Quote (abe @ Aug. 07 2013,05:08) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 05 2013,11:44) Quote (abe @ Aug. 05 2013,11:57) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2013,07:26) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 03 2013,11:15) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 04 2013,03:59) Quote (2besee @ Aug. 03 2013,05:32) The one and the same spirit is called: The Spirit of God,
The Holy Spirit,
The Eternal Spirit,
The Spirit of Christ,
The Spirit of the Son.As Paul explained, there is only ONE SPIRIT – it us ONE AND THE SAME SPIRIT.
If you do not include the “spirit of the antichrist” in with this “one spirit”, then what makes you think you can include the “spirit of Christ” with the “Holy Spirit”?
Hi Mike,I don't think 2Besee will understand your question. This is an easier way to put it…
“Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us,
and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in
subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?” (Heb 12:9)Which of these spirits is “the spirit of Christ”?
1. The Father of Spirits
2. Spirits that the Father of spirits is father of.I say the “HolySpirit” is #1, and
“the spirit of Christ” is #2;
what say you Mike?
Well done, Ed.I agree that the spirit of Christ is one of the many spirits the Father of Spirits is the Father of.
I disagree that the Holy Spirit IS the Father of Spirits. Instead, it is the spirit OF the Father of Spirits.
Hi Mike,Amen.
Ec.12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Peace brother……
abewhat about the wicked men does his corrupted spirit goes to God as well
if you say yes ,where in scriptures it says that God collects wickedness
if you say no ,then were do they go
Hi T,Ex.4:10 Then Moses said to the LORD, “Please, Lord, I have never been eloquent, neither recently nor in time past, nor since You have spoken to Your servant; for I am slow of speech and slow of tongue.” 11The LORD said to him, “Who has made man's mouth? Or who makes [him] mute or deaf, or seeing or blind? Is it not I, the LORD? 12″Now then go, and I, even I, will be with your mouth, and teach you what you are to say.” 13But he said, “Please, Lord, now send [the message] by whomever You will.”
14Then the anger of the LORD burned against Moses, and He said, “Is there not your brother Aaron the Levite? I know that he speaks fluently. And moreover, behold, he is coming out to meet you; when he sees you, he will be glad in his heart. 15″You are to speak to him and put the words in his mouth; and I, even I, will be with your mouth and his mouth, and I will teach you what you are to do. 16″Moreover, he shall speak for you to the people; and he will be as a mouth for you and you will be as God to him.Prov.16:1 The plans of the heart belong to man, But the answer of the tongue is from the LORD.
Prov.18:9 The mind of man plans his way, But the LORD directs his steps.
Prov.19:21 Many plans are in a man's heart, But the counsel of the LORD will stand.
:22 What is desirable in a man is his kindness, And it is better to be a poor man than a liar.Lk.12:11 “When they bring you before the synagogues and the rulers and the authorities, do not worry about how or what you are to speak in your defense, or what you are to say; 12for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.”
(Quote)
what about the wicked men does his corrupted spirit goes to God as well
if you say yes ,where in scriptures it says that God collects wickedness
if you say no ,then were do they goMy Guess?? Back to their father the devil.??
Ec.12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
I believe God.
Gen.1:1 1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.In the beginning God ‘Created’
And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Please show me where the Spirit of God was ‘Not' Created?
Peace brother..
abeECC 3:19 For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity.
ECC 3:21 Who knows that the breath of man ascends upward and the breath of the beast descends downward to the earth?Ecc 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from,
and the spirit returns to God who gave it.27 For it would be better for us to be captured by them. We shall indeed become slaves, but our lives will be spared, and we shall not witness our little ones dying before our eyes, and our wives and children
drawing their last breath.
2Mac 3:31 Some of Heliodorus's friends quickly begged Onias to call upon the Most High to grant life to one who was lying quite at his last breath. 9 And when he was at his last breath, he said, “You accursed wretch, you dismiss us from this present life, but the King of the universe will raise us up to an everlasting renewal of life, because we have died for his lawsunderstand that what God give to Adam was the breath of life (called spirit ) in his nostrils,
it is the starting lung function this is what God gives to Adam and when men breath their last breath it is like that God stopped it ,he does because scriptures says that he hold men life in his power ,can a men extend his days NO, only the fools short it .
Hi T,(Quote)
understand that what God give to Adam was the breath of life (called spirit ) in his nostrils,Ez.18:4 “Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins will die.
Ec.12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Gen.7:22 of all that was on the dry land, all in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit of life, died.
Breath is not the Spirit.
Peace.
Abe
So you say ,the Breath is Not the Spirit ,so what is the Spirit
And why is it associated with the Breath in Gen 7:22
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 06 2013,20:04) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 06 2013,09:34) So you see Mike, our Spirit is who we are and you cannot separate the Soul from the Spirit of man, only Gods word can. Heb 4:12
Good scriptures, Keith. What I see is how other people's spirits are metaphorically personified, as if they are separate entities from the person himself. Hmmmmm…………. the same can be said about God's Spirit, right?But I still want an answer as to WHOSE spirit David was talking about in that psalm. Was it God's spirit he was talking about?
As for the “connection” you are trying to make between “your spirit” and “you”, it is metaphorical. Anywhere that God sends His Spirit is a place that God METAPHORICALLY is Himself……….. even though He never literally left heaven to be at that place.
MikeSo is the Spirit “metaphorically” the Lord also?
Did David say where Gods Spirit is there he is “metaphorically”?
Did Marys Spirit rejoice “metaphorically”?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 07 2013,21:30) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 06 2013,20:04) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 06 2013,09:34) So you see Mike, our Spirit is who we are and you cannot separate the Soul from the Spirit of man, only Gods word can. Heb 4:12
Good scriptures, Keith. What I see is how other people's spirits are metaphorically personified, as if they are separate entities from the person himself. Hmmmmm…………. the same can be said about God's Spirit, right?But I still want an answer as to WHOSE spirit David was talking about in that psalm. Was it God's spirit he was talking about?
As for the “connection” you are trying to make between “your spirit” and “you”, it is metaphorical. Anywhere that God sends His Spirit is a place that God METAPHORICALLY is Himself……….. even though He never literally left heaven to be at that place.
MikeSo is the Spirit “metaphorically” the Lord also?
Did David say where Gods Spirit is there he is “metaphorically”?
Did Marys Spirit rejoice “metaphorically”?
WJ
wjis Mary the mother of God
wen an Architect designs a building in a special way ,the building in it self will be a dedication of that Architect as long as the building stands even when the man is dead,
and so it is with God's creation ,the creation is the works of the invisible God but what we can see stands forever ,because our God can not die ,and so his creation stands as his glory,as his capability and his intention within his design ,
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 06 2013,23:59) Abe So you say ,the Breath is Not the Spirit ,so what is the Spirit
And why is it associated with the Breath in Gen 7:22
Hi T,7307. ruachruach: breath, wind, spirit
Original Word: ר֫וּחַ
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: ruach
Phonetic Spelling: (roo'-akh)
Short Definition: spiritWord Origin
from an unused word
Definition
breath, wind, spirit
NASB Translation
air (2), anger (1), blast (2), breath (31), breathless* (1), cool (1), courage (1), despondency* (1), exposed (1), grief* (1), heart (1), inspired (1), mind (3), motives (1), points (1), quick-tempered* (1), side (4), sides (2), Spirit (76), spirit (127), spirits (3), strength (1), temper (2), thoughts* (1), trustworthy* (1), wind (98), winds (7), windy (2), wrath (1).Spirit (76), spirit (127), spirits (3),
wind (98), winds (7), windy (2),
I would say it is very similar to Wind. What do You think?
Peace…………………………
Quote (abe @ Aug. 08 2013,03:14) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 06 2013,23:59) Abe So you say ,the Breath is Not the Spirit ,so what is the Spirit
And why is it associated with the Breath in Gen 7:22
Hi T,7307. ruachruach: breath, wind, spirit
Original Word: ר֫וּחַ
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: ruach
Phonetic Spelling: (roo'-akh)
Short Definition: spiritWord Origin
from an unused word
Definition
breath, wind, spirit
NASB Translation
air (2), anger (1), blast (2), breath (31), breathless* (1), cool (1), courage (1), despondency* (1), exposed (1), grief* (1), heart (1), inspired (1), mind (3), motives (1), points (1), quick-tempered* (1), side (4), sides (2), Spirit (76), spirit (127), spirits (3), strength (1), temper (2), thoughts* (1), trustworthy* (1), wind (98), winds (7), windy (2), wrath (1).Spirit (76), spirit (127), spirits (3),
wind (98), winds (7), windy (2),
I would say it is very similar to Wind. What do You think?
Peace…………………………
abeI believe that with Adam the breath that God as given to him was the breath of air in his nostrils ,because their is nothing else that the nostrils are made for so to speak ,the fact that it is called “spirit ” it could be because God give it ,we the offspring have it done in God's established way at birth ,if it does not come we slap the rear end of the new born so that he start to breath through his nostrils
the wind is air in action what make it that it can blow and make blows to what it passes ,I am not sure of
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 07 2013,09:30) Mike So is the Spirit “metaphorically” the Lord also?
I think it says “the Lord is that spirit”, not “that spirit is the Lord”.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 07 2013,09:30) Did David say where Gods Spirit is there he is “metaphorically”?
No, David didn't say “metaphorically”. But David did make it clear he was talking about the Spirit OF God, right?I'm with Kathi on this one, Keith. I don't believe God's spirit is God Himself. Instead it is a part of Him…….. something He possesses.
That's why possession phrases like “God's spirit” and “the spirit of God” are used. The apostrophe – s and the word “of” both show possession, Keith. And one can't possess himself.
Keith, I could say, “The words Kathi posted to you yesterday in this thread made my spirit rejoice!” But that wouldn't mean my spirit was a conscious entity that had feelings or thoughts. It would just be a figure of speech.
Let me do a silly little scenario to show you how I think you're understanding the spirits within us:
Hey Mike, you're the nicest person I know.
Why thank you, Keith! Hold on a second……… I'm going to speak to my spirit real quick. Hey spirit inside me, did you hear that? Keith said I'm the nicest person he knows. How does that make you feel?
Well Mike, words like that make me rejoice. Would you mind telling Keith that he made me rejoice inside of you?
No problem, spirit. Hey Keith, did you know that your words made my spirit rejoice?
Wow Mike! Thanks for letting me know what your spirit told you about the words I spoke!
I know that was silly, but it seems that's what you're preaching……….. that our spirits within us are real persons in their own right, and have wills and feelings, etc.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 07 2013,09:30) Did Marys Spirit rejoice “metaphorically”?
Yes Keith. That would be a figure of speech to indicate that Mary was happy to her very core……… heart, mind, soul, and spirit.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 06 2013,17:40) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 06 2013,16:40) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 06 2013,16:26) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 06 2013,16:22) Keith,
you said:Quote I never said the Holy Spirit is some non-personal force or non-personal power.
I never said that you profess that, I was just clarifying it so you would realize that I am also not saying the Holy Spirit is a non-personal force or power either; which seemed to be implied by you in your previous post as the only other option if someone doesn't see the Holy Spirit as a distinct person from the Father and the Son.
Well if he is not a distinct person then the words of Jesus saying the Father and himself will send the Spirit makes no sense IMO because they did not send themselves did they?WJ
They did not send their physical presence, they sent their omnipresence. They abide in heaven but by their Spirit-their omnipresence, they abide within us.Then what physical presence was David speaking of when he said where his spirit was so was God?
This simply means the Spirit is God! If Gods Omnipresence can be every where and see all things and know all things and the Father and Jesus must dwell in heaven then that means the Spirit would be greater than the Father and Jesus.
The Father and Jesus are God and can be everywhere at the same time. Matt 18:20, John 14:23
So their Omnipresence can hear, speak, grieve, etc and yet not be God?
So their Omnipresence hears from Jesus and takes from him and gives to us? John 16:13, 14
So their Omnipresence Glorifies the Son?
God dwells in me by his Spirit because the Spirit is God.
Blessings!
Keith
Hi Keith,
you said:Quote Then what physical presence was David speaking of when he said where his spirit was so was God? Can you show me the reference so I can look at the context before I answer you?
The Spirit is God. My spirit after it leaves my body when I die, is me but it is NOT a distinct person from the person in the casket…it is the person who is absent from their body in the casket. The uniqueness about the Spirit of God is that it doesn't leave the presence of the Father or Son in heaven in order to be sent from them.
Quote The Father and Jesus are God and can be everywhere at the same time. Matt 18:20, John 14:23 Yes, I agree but it is by their omnipresent Spirit that this is possible.
Quote So their Omnipresence can hear, speak, grieve, etc and yet not be God? Their Omnipresent Spirit can hear, speak, grieve, etc and yet not be a distinct person. Their Omnipresent Spirit is one part of their personal 'tripartness' which is Their way of remaining in one place yet extending everywhere beyond that one place as directed by another part of Their 'tripartness' (their mind).
Man's spirit is one part of his 'tripartness' also and certainly not another distinct person from the man it is a part of.
Their Spirit is a part of the Father and a part of the Son, not a distinct person from the Father or the Son, from what I can tell of what the Bible teaches.
Quote So their Omnipresence hears from Jesus and takes from him and gives to us? John 16:13, 14 Their Omnipresent Spirit hears (searches) Jesus' and or the Father's thoughts and transmits it to us.
Quote So their Omnipresence Glorifies the Son? The Father's Omnipresent Spirit glorifies the Son, the Son's Omnipresent Spirit glorifies the Father. The two spirits are united but remain distinct.
Quote God dwells in me by his Spirit because the Spirit is God. Yes the Spirit is God. Our spirit is us. Not a separate person with us.
Blessings to you too!
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 06 2013,16:17) Pierre,
What about what I believe is unscriptural? If it IS scriptural, then aren't we doing well to say we 'believe' it??? Yes or no?
Pierre,
Please answer these questions. thxQuote (Lightenup @ Aug. 08 2013,09:36) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 06 2013,16:17) Pierre,
What about what I believe is unscriptural? If it IS scriptural, then aren't we doing well to say we 'believe' it??? Yes or no?
Pierre,
Please answer these questions. thx
kathyyou believe in an uncreated son ;this contradict Paul in Col;1 ;15
so that is not scriptural;
Quote If it IS scriptural, then aren't we doing well to say we 'believe' it??? Yes or no? if something is in scriptures and teached in that way then yes we should believe it
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