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A must answer question:
Did you know that Jesus was already announced as Lord on the day when He was born as a man?I am not sure exactly when he became Lord. But I know that God made him Lord.
Whether we think he was Lord when he was the Word or Lord when he first gathered disciples around him, the fact remains he is Lord because God made him Lord.@t8
What type of spirit being do you believe the Heavenly Father is?
(Sorry I haven’t posted in a while…I have been on a 6500 mile road trip to California and back since my last post.)
God is an eternal Spirit. He is invisible. He doesn’t have the form of a creature. Jesus on the other-hand is the visible image of this God in bodily form. Basically the greatest glory of God that we can see is in the face of Christ.
HI
MOST OF IF NOT ALL THOSE NAMES ARE ALLEGORICAL NOT HIS REAL NAME FOR I ONLY KNOW TWO THAT IS jESUS ,AND THE word ”
Just my input, I tend to be somewhere between T8 and Lightenup in that I believe that as the “agent” between the Father and our creation, Jesus has been placed in the position of “God” with all power and authority (given by the almighty Father) so nothing is taken away from the Father and any thanks or praise offered to the Son are simply passed onto the Father. As the visible aspect of the invisible “God” the two are one. I believe that our salvation could only be gained through the sacrifice of an obedient human that through His choice and love, trusted in the Father despite what His desires were.
My opinion – Wm
How do you change the colors
Jesus prayed that we would be one with each other and with both himself and God.
A number of things can be deciphered here.
- Jesus sees God as another and this is not the only verse where Jesus openly talks of God as another.
- We can be one with God as Jesus is one with God.
Yes Jesus is the greatest revelation of God. We reflect God in part, he reflects him in full. Still reflecting
God though and that is not a put down. God is the Father and he has a son who is the Lord and the messiah.How do you change the colors
There are a number of ways. The easiest way is to click on the Visual tab at the top-right of the posting window. Next, select the text you wish to colour. Then select the arrow next to the icon that looks like this: A
Then choose the colour.
Thanks for your input, however this is a closed debate between t8 and myself. Thanks for understanding.
Wm, the trip was amazing, thanks!
@t8
You said “God is an eternal Spirit.”
I agree. I also believe that the Son is the eternal offspring part of that eternal spirit being.
@t8
Do you have any questions or concerns regarding what I stated in my last post on the previous page?
@t8 sleeping on the job? 🙂 Please answer the last post regarding my post before that to you. Thanks!
No, not sleeping on the job. Just more important things than discussing the Binity Doctrine. But will continue to dialogue.
You said “God is an eternal Spirit.”
I agree. I also believe that the Son is the eternal offspring part of that eternal spirit being.
lol. Is the devil is in the detail?
Jesus is the offspring of the eternal God, the firstborn of all creation. It doesn’t say the eternal offspring of the eternal God or the never born of all creation. First born means being the first born, not eternal.
Interesting thing I learned the other day is mathematicians believe there are different kinds of infinities. One is eternal in every direction. Another can have a beginning and be eternal going forward. Gifted eternal life is life never ending but that is neither eternal in the sense that we have existed always. If we have eternal life, does that mean we have existed eternally?
For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself.
You do not believe that the Father GRANTED the son to have life in himself. You believe he always had it. So it was not granted.
@t8
You said:First born means being the first born, not eternal.
You are correct that the appellation “firstborn” can mean first to be born but it does not address how long the one born was in actual living existence beforehand. It is understood that the one born, existed beforehand (you existed before you were born…about 9 months for humans). The term “firstborn” does not speak to the length of time one existed before being born. You have no proof of a beginning of existence with that argument, t8.
My oldest son was my firstborn. He EXISTED about 9 months BEFORE he became a firstborn. A firstborn lamb EXISTS about 5 months BEFORE it becomes a firstborn. Yet you are trying to tell us that the Only Begotten did not exist before He became a firstborn.
Must answer question:
Do you understand that the term ‘firstborn’ does not speak in and of itself as to how long something existed before being born and thus cannot use the fact that the Only Begotten is called ‘firstborn’ as a proof that He didn’t exist at one point but implies that the ‘firstborn’ actually did have a living existence before being born??You also said this:
For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself.
You do not believe that the Father GRANTED the son to have life in himself. You believe he always had it. So it was not granted.
The context is about granting the Son of Man to have the authority to judge and give eternal life to His followers.
John 5:21 21“For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes.
I appreciate the dialogue! Have a great day!!
Being born means you have a Father/Mother/Parent(s). If Jesus has always eternally proceeded from God, then he is not born, but is a part of God. Such a notion is not taught in scripture. Rather we see time and time again that he came from God, that he is the firstborn, that he was the first to be with God. I prefer to stick to scripture rather than entertain that which is clearly not written. And things are written so we will know and understand. A Jesus eternally proceeding from God and being God is not written. But the Word that was with God in the beginning, and wisdom who was the first to be begotten, and Jesus who is the first-born of all creation are clearly written. I rest my understanding on these.
Yet you are trying to tell us that the Only Begotten did not exist before He became a firstborn.
Jesus was the first to be with God. He was with God before the cosmos came into being. He became a man later on and is not the first adam, rather the last adam. The Word that came from God who is Jesus did not spend 9 months inside God as a developing being. The Word came exclusively from God at some point before the cosmos came into being. That is all we know. I can’t give you a date. There was no calendar before the cosmos that I am aware of.
And we can be born of God. At what point are we in the womb of God as you allure to?
Must answer question:
Do you understand that the term ‘firstborn’ does not speak in and of itself as to how long something existed before being born and thus cannot use the fact that the Only Begotten is called ‘firstborn’ as a proof that He didn’t exist at one point but implies that the ‘firstborn’ actually did have a living existence before being born??How many times have I heard this argument. I have lost count.
All firstborn sons of men are not (as you say) always the literal firstborn. However, you can inherit firstborn status if the literal firstborn doesn’t take up this birth right. So who passed up their birthright so that Jesus could be the firstborn of all creation? No one. He was the literal firstborn of all creation.
Adam passed up his right and Jesus became the last Adam, but Adam was not the firstborn of all creation. Only Jesus is called the firstborn of all creation.
The context is about granting the Son of Man to have the authority to judge and give eternal life to His followers.
Granted being the keyword in your statement.
God also made him Lord and messiah.
There is one God and there is one who God made both Lord and Christ. God granted him to have this life and the privileged positions that he holds. In turn, Christ grants us many things if we are found worthy to obtain them.
God > Word/Christ > Man/Creation
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