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Quote (t8 @ May 27 2013,18:51) Quote (Lightenup @ May 27 2013,19:17) Quote (t8 @ May 25 2013,02:04) Quote (Lightenup @ May 25 2013,19:55) Not so fast, t8. Please note that you did not answer this question: Tell me which one/ones aren't Jehovah:
JEHOVAH JIREH (Jehovah our Provider)
JEHOVAH RAPHA (Jehovah our Healer)
JEHOVAH RAAH (Jehovah our Shepherd)
JEHOVAH TSIDKENU (Jehovah our Righteousness)
Don't know. You might as well tell me and save some time.
They are all Jehovah! The fact that you did not know this is telling!
It tells nothing as far as your agenda is concerned.There are many humans with the name Yah or YHWH in it. That is a fact and this puts your point into disrepute. You say that Jesus is God because he has a name with YHWH in it, but I pointed out other names that do the same such as Isaiah.
This clearly proves your point is biased. Clearly if someone else believed that Isaiah was YHWH, then they could use your argument to support that just as you have with Jesus. There would be no difference.
This is what is telling Kathi. You are biased and I know that bias and truth are not the same thing.
t8,
Can you show me a person that has the word YHVH along with a seperate word as part of a compound name that is a man other than Jesus? You have only given examples of people with a one word name where the 'Yah' is within it?This is a must answer question, t8.
Another question that will show that I am not biased but it is you who are biased to really not want YHVH to be a name for Jesus.
Whose righteousness is the context talking about where the Branch is called Jehovah our Righteousness?
Jeremiah 23
5″Behold, [the] days are coming,” declares the LORD, “When I will raise up for David a righteous Branch; And He will reign as king and act wisely And do justice and righteousness in the land.This is really simple.
6″In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel will dwell securely; And this is His name by which He will be called, The LORD our righteousness.'Quote (Lightenup @ May 28 2013,17:10) t8,
Can you show me a person that has the word YHVH along with a seperate word as part of a compound name that is a man other than Jesus? You have only given examples of people with a one word name where the 'Yah' is within it?This is a must answer question, t8.
Maybe I can. But I can't be bothered researching that. If it was a crucial point, it might be worth my time.Since you have obviously already done this, I invite you to post where Jesus is called YHWH as this should be easy for you, and then make the statement that no other man is named in similar fashion. Then if this becomes a crucial leg for your doctrine to stand on, I will at that point chop it down.
Quote (Lightenup @ May 28 2013,17:15) Another question that will show that I am not biased but it is you who are biased to really not want YHVH to be a name for Jesus.
OXYMORON ALERT.“YHVH to be a name for Jesus.”
qué
Jesus is his name and there is no other name under Heaven by which we can be saved. This is the name that the Father provided salvation for mankind. The name of Jesus/Yeshua.
Trying to change his name is suspicious behaviour you have to admit. And your sentence is like saying, “John is the name for Bob”.
Kathi. Jesus came in his Father's name.
Q: What is his Father's name?
YHWH?Did Jesus come in his own name?
No, he came in his Father's name.So he didn't come in the name of his name which is YHWH according to you.
See that Kathi. That is commonly called a contradiction.
He came in YHWH's name and he didn't come in YHWH's name. Oxymoron Alert!
Back to the Drawing Board please.
The “Ye” in Yeshua is the abbreviated form of YHWH, while “Shua” is from the Hebrew word 'salvation'. Jesus means “YHWH is salvation.”
Isaiah means “salvation of the Lord”. It is basically the same meaning as Yeshua.
Then we have other names like Elijah, Obadiah etc.
It is plain to see that all of these use the name of YHWH and another word to form a short sentence or meaning. Yeshua is not an exception here because Yeshua is not YHWH it is YHWH + salvation.
These are the facts. Yeshua is not YHWH, he was named after him.
Quote (t8 @ May 28 2013,01:52) Quote (Lightenup @ May 28 2013,17:10) t8,
Can you show me a person that has the word YHVH along with a seperate word as part of a compound name that is a man other than Jesus? You have only given examples of people with a one word name where the 'Yah' is within it?This is a must answer question, t8.
Maybe I can. But I can't be bothered researching that. If it was a crucial point, it might be worth my time.Since you have obviously already done this, I invite you to post where Jesus is called YHWH as this should be easy for you, and then make the statement that no other man is named in similar fashion. Then if this becomes a crucial leg for your doctrine to stand on, I will at that point chop it down.
Interesting, so you don't know of any examples without researching.
Quote I invite you to post where Jesus is called YHWH as this should be easy for you, and then make the statement that no other man is named in similar fashion. Here is one:
Philippians 2:11
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
And every tongue shall confess that Yeshua The Messiah is THE LORD JEHOVAH to the glory of God his Father.There is no other man called Jehovah.
Quote (t8 @ May 28 2013,03:33) The “Ye” in Yeshua is the abbreviated form of YHWH, while “Shua” is from the Hebrew word 'salvation'. Jesus means “YHWH is salvation.” Isaiah means “salvation of the Lord”. It is basically the same meaning as Yeshua.
Then we have other names like Elijah, Obadiah etc.
It is plain to see that all of these use the name of YHWH and another word to form a short sentence or meaning. Yeshua is not an exception here because Yeshua is not YHWH it is YHWH + salvation.
These are the facts. Yeshua is not YHWH, he was named after him.
Oh, t8, once again, I am not saying that there aren't names that have part of YHVH's name in them. I am saying that I don't believe there is a single man that has the name YHVH written in the Hebrew separately from the descriptive in a compound name. You will have to look at the interlinear to see that YHVH is a separate word and not a part of a word. Got it?There is no need to tell me about names like Isaiah that have part of YHVH's name in them. I am not talking about these types of names.
Quote (t8 @ May 28 2013,03:13) Kathi. Jesus came in his Father's name. Q: What is his Father's name?
YHWH?Did Jesus come in his own name?
No, he came in his Father's name.So he didn't come in the name of his name which is YHWH according to you.
See that Kathi. That is commonly called a contradiction.
He came in YHWH's name and he didn't come in YHWH's name. Oxymoron Alert!
Back to the Drawing Board please.
He has both come in the name of His Father and has been given the same name which is apparent in the OT when the Word says that He is Jehovah. Gen 15.Quote (Lightenup @ May 29 2013,07:23) Here is one: Philippians 2:11
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
And every tongue shall confess that Yeshua The Messiah is THE LORD JEHOVAH to the glory of God his Father.There is no other man called Jehovah.
Philippians 2:11
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.Kurios.
Part of Speech:
noun masculine
Usage in the KJV:
Lord 667, lord 54, master 11, sir 6, Sir 6, misc 4Total: 748
Definition:
he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has power of deciding; master, lord
the possessor and disposer of a thing
the owner; one who has control of the person, the master
in the state: the sovereign, prince, chief, the Roman emperor
is a title of honour expressive of respect and reverence, with which servants salute their masterNot YHWH.
Quote (t8 @ May 30 2013,06:12) Quote (Lightenup @ May 29 2013,07:23) Here is one: Philippians 2:11
Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
And every tongue shall confess that Yeshua The Messiah is THE LORD JEHOVAH to the glory of God his Father.There is no other man called Jehovah.
Philippians 2:11
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.Kurios.
Part of Speech:
noun masculine
Usage in the KJV:
Lord 667, lord 54, master 11, sir 6, Sir 6, misc 4Total: 748
Definition:
he to whom a person or thing belongs, about which he has power of deciding; master, lord
the possessor and disposer of a thing
the owner; one who has control of the person, the master
in the state: the sovereign, prince, chief, the Roman emperor
is a title of honour expressive of respect and reverence, with which servants salute their masterNot YHWH.
Yes, t8, Lord is kurios in Greek but so is YHVH. Did you know this? Yes or No
This is a must answer question.
Quote (t8 @ May 30 2013,06:13) Jesus is master/lord not YHWH God. In fact it was God who made him Lord.
Where did this happen in scripture when the theos of John 1:1b make the theos of John 1:1c 'Lord?'A must answer question:
Did you know that Jesus was already announced as Lord on the day when He was born as a man?Luke 2:10And the angel said to them, “Fear not, for behold, I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people. 11For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
Did you also know that the Lord Jesus, the theos of John 1:1c already owned (Lord=owner) everything when all things were created in heaven and on earth?
Col 1:16For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
Also, did you know that He is called “Lord of all?”
Acts 10:34So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, 35but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him. 36As for the word that he sent to Israel, preaching good news of peace through Jesus Christ (he is Lord of all),
Quote (t8 @ May 30 2013,06:24) Must answer question. What is Yeshua's name?
Here are a few of the names and titles of Jesus:
ADAM
ADVOCATE
ALMIGHTY
ALPHA AND OMEGA
AMEN
APOSTLE OF OUR PROFESSION
ARM OF THE LORD
AUTHOR AND FINISHER OF OUR FAITH
AUTHOR OF ETERNAL SALVATION
BEGINNING OF CREATION OF GOD
BELOVED SON
BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTATE
BRANCH
BREAD OF LIFE
CAPTAIN OF SALVATION
CHIEF SHEPHERD
CHRIST OF GOD
CONSOLATION OF ISRAEL
CORNERSTONE
COUNSELOR
CREATOR
DAY-SPRING
DELIVERER
DESIRE OF THE NATIONS
DOOR
ELECT OF GOD
EVERLASTING FATHER
FAITHFUL WITNESS
FIRST AND LAST
FIRST BORN
FORERUNNER
GLORY OF THE LORD
GOD
GOD BLESSED
GOOD SHEPHERD
GOVERNOR
GREAT HIGH PRIEST
HEAD OF THE CHURCH
HEIR OF ALL THINGS
HOLY CHILD
HOLY ONE
HOLY ONE OF GOD
HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL
HORN OF SALVATION
I AM
IMAGE OF GOD
IMMANUEL
JEHOVAH
JEHOVAH OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS
JESUS
JESUS OF NAZARETH
JUDGE OF ISRAEL
THE JUST ONE
KING
KING OF THE AGES
KING OF THE JEWS
KING OF KINGS
KING OF SAINTS
LAWGIVER
LAMB
LAMB OF GOD
LEADER AND COMMANDER
THE LIFE
LIGHT OF THE WORLD
LION OF THE TRIBE OF JUDAH
LORD OF ALL
LORD OF GLORY
LORD OF LORDS
LORD OF OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS
MAN OF SORROWS
MEDIATOR
MESSENGER OF THE COVENANT
MESSIAH
MIGHTY GOD
MIGHTY ONE
MORNING STAR
NAZARENE
ONLY BEGOTTEN SON
OUR PASSOVER
PRINCE OF LIFE
PRINCE OF KINGS
PRINCE OF PEACE
PROPHET
REDEEMER
RESURRECTION AND LIFE
ROCK
ROOT OF DAVID
ROSE OF SHARON
SAVIOR
SEED OF WOMAN
SHEPHERD AND BISHOP OF SOULS
SHILOH
SON OF THE BLESSED
SON OF DAVID
SON OF GOD
SON OF THE HIGHEST
SUN OF RIGHTEOUSNESS
TRUE LIGHT
TRUE VINE
TRUTH
WITNESS
WORD
WORD OF GOD@t8,
You recently said in a post that Jesus was arguably called theos. Was He or wasn’t He called theos? While you think about how to answer that, please tell me WHAT type of being the pre-existent Jesus was.I see that there are some must answer questions back in the previous page. I will give them a go when I have the time. I will answer the previous post now.
Some people say that in the New Testament, Thomas called Jesus ‘God’. “My lord and my God.” However, there is a double use of the definite article if I remember rightly. You can correct me if I remembered incorrectly, I just don’t have time to check that now. Thus a double use could also be read as speaking of two which we see is very common elsewhere in scripture.
Usually when Jesus is honoured or thanked, in the same breath the Father is given thanks and the glory.
Such as: Romans 7:25
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord…Romans 16:27
to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ, be the glory forever.Jude 1:25
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.Jesus is also called “mighty el” in the Old Testament. While that word is used of God, like theos, it is also used of others who are not God. Even elohim is used of others such as angels and even an earthquake. el means mighty and of course God is mighty but so are others. Of course God himself is Almighty.
@t8 (btw, do I have to do the “@t8” on every post in this thread for you to be notified that I made a post in response to you or can I leave that out?)
You say that it can be argued that Jesus is called God. Good that is a start. In another thread, you wrote that satan and man are also called theos/god, but do not add that it is arguable, correct? Do you think that it is arguable or for certain that satan and man are called theos/god?
Also, you did not answer my question asking what type of being you believe the pre-existent Jesus was. Please answer this.
You don’t have to do that. Yes it provides a notification, but just because there isn’t one doesn’t mean I will not participate.
Many are called by the title theos and elohim because of the varying usage of these words. But you trying to get me to believe that Jesus is the Most High God while all others who are called theos are not. This is a sticking point in your teaching. You seem to be implying in your post that me acknowledging the possibility that theos is used of Jesus is a plus or one step closer in your scheme. But you have as much chance as me saying that King David is a man and then thinking you can convince me that he is Adam. I am not confused over the nature versus identity thing.
Jesus is identified as the son of God, Word of God, Messiah, and the one whom God made Lord. This is what is required in order to believe the scripture’s testimony of who Jesus is. Yet you and many others over the centuries have required that all Believers believe that Jesus Christ is God. There is something propelling this and it is not the Spirit of God because the Spirit never contradicts scripture. Plus the fruit is really bad. Many have been crucified for not believing that Jesus is God. And people like Sir Isaac Newton had to hide his belief from the world that Jesus was the son of God and not God.
And here you are trying to convince me that Jesus is the Almighty God even in the face of the most obvious truth that he is the son of that God. And the reason I won’t budge is because it is not true what you teach. Further, Jesus said that eternal life was to know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom the only true God sent. I will say it to you simply. I value eternal life and because of that, I listen to the words of my shepherd and refuse to listen to the voice of another who teaches differently.
So now back to refuting your teaching.
Jesus was the word of God. He existed in the form of God. I can only guess that he was a spirit because God is a spirit. I cannot be definite as to what sort of being he was exactly because I don’t think it is written anywhere that the was a this or that being. So he existed in the FORM of God. He did not exist as God himself.
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