Proclaimer vs Lightenup

[Proclaimer]

So Kathi, roughly how many times is Jesus called 'theos' in the New Testament.

You can give an exact number if you happen to google it.
Or you can give an indication like under 10. Over 100 or something like that.

I want to establish how common you think the usage of theos is for Jesus Christ before making a further point.

[Lightenup]

t8,
Oh, I'm guessing 5 times or so. I believe He is called Jehovah more than that in the entire Bible. He is also called the First and the Last which implies eternal existence. He is also said to be the one who directly created everything in heaven and on earth while the Father indirectly created everything.

Does that help you consider Jesus as 'the theos?'

[Proclaimer]

Okay thanks for answering.

Would you say this is a fair evaluation with the usage of the word theos in the New Testament?

1. THEOS is predominately the Father.
2. In second place are idols.
3. Then comes Jesus with 5 possible uses, although some may not be referring to Jesus at all.
4. Men are called theos at least 1 time.
5. Satan is called theos at least 1 time.

[Lightenup]

I was just talking about when 'the theos' was used for Jesus, not theos without the 'the.'

Your evaluation is not correct if you consider 'the theos' and 'theos' without the article.
I would say that the Father is most of the 'the theos' and 'theos' without the article.
Then, the Son.
Then, the idols and false gods.

Where are men and satan called theos?

[Lightenup]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 16 2012,15:54)

I was just talking about when 'the theos' was used for Jesus, not theos without the 'the.' Your evaluation is not correct if you consider 'the theos' and 'theos' without the article. I would say that the Father is most of the 'the theos' and 'theos' without the article. Then, the Son. Then, the idols and false gods. Where are men and satan called theos?

t8?

[Proclaimer]

2 Corinthians 4:4
The god (theos) of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God (theos).

John 10:34
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, `I have said you are gods (theos)’
The Old Testament was written in Hebrew and again we see that the word “God” can apply to our Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, Angelic & Demonic powers, mankind, idols, and even things or events.

This verse is actually quoted in the Psalms 82:6:
“I said, `You are “gods” (Elohim); you are all sons of the Most High.’

Psalm 97:7
All who worship images are put to shame, those who boast in idols; worship him, all you gods (Elohim)!

This verse is actually quoted in the Hebrews 1:6 and it is referring to the Angels.
And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God's angels worship him.”

[Lightenup]

So, t8, since theos can apply to Jesus Christ, according to Hebrews 1, all the angels should worship the theos-Jesus, the Firstborn.

So when you worship Jesus as the Lamb of theos and the Son of theos, you should also worship Him as the theos of theos. Agreed?

[Proclaimer]

Oh yes back to the Binity Topic.
I do find it boring only because most of the arguments that silence the Trinity promoters also works with the Binity promoter, meaning I have to repeat myself a lot.

Would be good if you read some of the main Trinity Thread. It would save on covering ground already covered. But as someone said once, this has become quite the bore, (something like that).

However, you mention Hebrews 1 and I do love that scripture.

In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

Jesus represents God and is his glory in full. A fitting description wouldn't you say for the image of God. A great being who is greater than the angels. Who died for us and now is at God's right hand side. Yes worthy of our honour and praise as the son of God and Lamb of God. Amen.

[Lightenup]

You should also worship Him as the theos of theos. Agreed?

[Proclaimer]

Worship him as theos of theos and son of that theos of theos?
I am not confused as you are kathi.

I worship him as the son of God and the Lamb of God.
He is the Word become flesh. Not God become flesh.

I have seen clearly how obstinate people end up being cursed with delusion many times now.

It is very important that we hold the truth in the highest esteem. When we think we can create truth for ourselves, we become deluded. Thanks for the demo, but it would be better if you had an excellent spirit. But at least thanks for the valuable lesson you have demonstrated to us that shows how we too could stumble if like yourself, we felt we were free to make the truth what we want.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 13 2012,23:05)

So Kathi, roughly how many times is Jesus called 'theos' in the New Testament. You can give an exact number if you happen to google it. Or you can give an indication like under 10. Over 100 or something like that. I want to establish how common you think the usage of theos is for Jesus Christ before making a further point.

Was wondering if you could answer this one.
Not THE Theos, but any verse where Jesus is called theos.

1, 2, 5, 10, 100, or what? An exact number would be great, but even a round number would do.

[Lightenup]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 10 2013,17:39)

Worship him as theos of theos and son of that theos of theos? I am not confused as you are kathi. I worship him as the son of God and the Lamb of God. He is the Word become flesh. Not God become flesh. I have seen clearly how obstinate people end up being cursed with delusion many times now. It is very important that we hold the truth in the highest esteem. When we think we can create truth for ourselves, we become deluded. Thanks for the demo, but it would be better if you had an excellent spirit. But at least thanks for the valuable lesson you have demonstrated to us that shows how we too could stumble if like yourself, we felt we were free to make the truth what we want.

t8,
Your response shows your confusion. I will rewrite my question to help you hopefully understand better.

your obviously confusing response:

Quote

Worship him as theos of theos and son of that theos of theos?

He is a theos of/from/belonging to another theos…do you deny or accept this?

He is also a son of the theos of theos…do you deny or accept this?

You admit that Jesus is worshiped as:
the Lamb of theos
the Son of theos
and that He is a theos,

but

can you admit that, being a theos Himself, He is actually 'of/from/belonging to' another theos, and should be worshiped as a theos of/from/belonging to another theos?

There, I have rewritten the question. Is it still too difficult for you?

Please answer each question here before asking a question. Then when you have, I will address your new question above this post.

[Proclaimer]

Okay I understand.

God of God.

Yes I think he has divine nature which comes from the Divine.

I can accept that he is God of God or god of God in that case.

I cannot accept that it is saying One true God of one true God like you would likely be implying.

The word THEOS can be used qualitatively as I have always maintained.

[Proclaimer]

Now your answer would be good.

[Lightenup]

I am guessing that Jesus is called God, with or without the article a dozen times or so. He is also called YHVH and Lord several times.

[Lightenup]

t8,
Thanks for your answer.
You said:

Quote

I can accept that he is God of God or god of God in that case.

Do you worship Him as God of God then?

[Proclaimer]

He existed in the form of God, took flesh, died, rose again, and is back in the glory that he had with God, at his right hand side to be exact.

So when I worship him as the Lamb, that is in recognition of his sacrifice.
When I worship him as the son, that is in recognition that he is the son of God. That he came from God. That he is like God. That he is the image of God. That he has the character and nature of his God.

So I worship him as the son and that covers all that he is.

Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

Kathi, think of me as a disciple of Christ. I give him the same honour that his original disciples gave him. I haven't strayed from the path and changed the meaning and identity of Jesus Christ.

[Lightenup]

t8,
Here is the question again. A simple yes, no, or I don't know will do.

Quote

Do you worship Him as God of God then?

[Lightenup]

t8? Try again.

[Proclaimer]

Explain the question because as it is, I can say yes because it means a being of divine nature from the original Divine himself, while you might mean an eternal God that always existed with another eternal God subtance being.

So in order to not fall into a trap, I need clarification.

You see theos can mean the Father who is the original and Most High God, and can also refer to other beings that share God's nature, authority, and power.

[Author]

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