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So, now that you admit that there are two who are called 'the theos' sit on the Father's throne, let's move on to creation.
How many beings that are called theos were involved in creating everything in heaven and earth?
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 08 2012,02:10) So, now that you admit that there are two who are called 'the theos' sit on the Father's throne, let's move on to creation.
Sorry Kathi. But because you are not specifying the usage of theos, your conclusion is not correct.I believe that the Father is the THEOS.
All the others including Jesus, Men, Angels are called theos in scripture.The only thing you can establish is that there is one who is the THEOS. The others can be called that in certain contexts.
Again, I remind you that there is one WHO is THE Devil. And there are many devils.
Same rule. It's not hard.
Kathi. He is the prototype son. When I originally used that term you questioned me, but all I said was that he as the prototype son or prototype. You have yet to disprove this, and why are we talking about this? Are you just taking pot shots at trying to find a crack in my defense. If so, don't waste your time and get on proving what it is you feel you have to prove. So far you have been left wanting in that area.
If you can't disprove that he is the prototype son or don't want to disprove it because you believe it too, then either way, move on please. I don't see the relevance anyway.
And the Judges of Israel (men) and angels are both called elohim and theos. Just google it and you will find the scriptures. And both had something in common. They administered God's authority or God's salvation.
You could read more about the judges here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_judgesQuote John 1:18
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
1 John 4:12 (English-NIV)
No one has ever seen God; ….1 Timothy 1:17 (English-NIV)
Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the ONLY God, be honor and glory for ever and ever.
Amen.1 Timothy 6:15-16 (English-NIV)
15 which God will bring about in his own time, God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.See how the ONLY God is invisible. This contradicts your Binity and also the Trinity, because Jesus is a visible being and God is not.
John 6:46 (English-NIV)
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.John 1:18 (English-KJV)
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.John 5:37 (English-NIV)
And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me.
You have never heard his voice nor seen his form.Proof that this ONLY God is the Father.
Now lets have a look at the begotten god you mention here.
“No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten SON, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
The word translated SON “huios”, which means:
huios {hwee-os'} apparently a primary word; TDNT – 8:334,1206; n m AV – son(s) 85, Son of Man + 444 87 {TDNT 8:400, 1210} , Son of God + 2316 49, child(ren) 49, Son 42, his Son + 848 21, Son of David + 1138
Here is the Greek for you.
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/joh1.pdf
However, there are a few translations that say begotten theos which are from the Alexandrian textual line which some believe smack of ancient Gnosticism. I am not going to say that this is the case, but that even if you translate it as “begotten theos” then it is still not unequivocally God, but a being who was born from God and is qualitatively theos. This wouldn't be hard to accept given that it was true because if he came from God, then he would have to have God's nature, for where else does he get his nature and character from.
Quote See how the ONLY God is invisible. This contradicts your Binity and also the Trinity, because Jesus is a visible being and God is not. Has it occurred to you that the Father is only God and the Son is more than God and not only God. The Son is also man. Stop using the word 'binity' for what I claim. I teach an eternal unity.
Also, in John 1:18 several translations have the word theos (God) but not huios (son).
See here:
New International Version (©1984)
No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.New Living Translation (©2007)
No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father's heart. He has revealed God to us.English Standard Version (©2001)
No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.New American Standard Bible (©1995)
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.International Standard Version (©2008)
No one has ever seen God. The unique God, who is close to the Father's side, has revealed him.Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
No man has seen God at any time; The Only Begotten God Who is in the bosom of The Father, he has declared him.”Quote even if you translate it as “begotten theos” then it is still not unequivocally God, but a being who was born from God and is qualitatively theos. The only begotten theos is not equivocally the unbegotten theos but is equivocally the begotten theos and they are Echad, an eternal unity.
You have never proven that the begotten theos wasn't always existent within His Father before He was begotten, nor have you proven that the Father at one point wasn't a Father.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 08 2012,03:27) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 08 2012,02:10) So, now that you admit that there are two who are called 'the theos' sit on the Father's throne, let's move on to creation.
Sorry Kathi. But because you are not specifying the usage of theos, your conclusion is not correct.I believe that the Father is the THEOS.
All the others including Jesus, Men, Angels are called theos in scripture.The only thing you can establish is that there is one who is the THEOS. The others can be called that in certain contexts.
Again, I remind you that there is one WHO is THE Devil. And there are many devils.
Same rule. It's not hard.
Quote The only thing you can establish is that there is one who is the THEOS. The others can be called that in certain contexts. See how you are saying one thing in one sentence and proving it wrong in the very next sentence.
Your 'article' theology doesn't hold weight, sorry.
Quote
Btw, where are men called 'theos?'Where are the judges called 'theos?' I don't see it in your wiki link or in the Bible.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 07 2012,02:03) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 07 2012,19:37) Definition of PROTOTYPE
1
: an original model on which something is patterned : archetype
Exactly. The first. The original. All the others are based on it.
But, t8, how can the reproduction be the prototype if the original is the prototype? Or how can Jesus be the prototype son if He is the only son. Doesn't prototype imply the first of others?t8,
How many beings, that have ever been called 'the theos' anywhere in the Bible, were involved in creating everything in heaven and earth?
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 08 2012,03:27) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 08 2012,02:10) So, now that you admit that there are two who are called 'the theos' sit on the Father's throne, let's move on to creation.
Sorry Kathi. But because you are not specifying the usage of theos, your conclusion is not correct.I believe that the Father is the THEOS.
All the others including Jesus, Men, Angels are called theos in scripture.The only thing you can establish is that there is one who is the THEOS. The others can be called that in certain contexts.
Again, I remind you that there is one WHO is THE Devil. And there are many devils.
Same rule. It's not hard.
t8,How many that have been referred to as 'the theos' anywhere in the Bible, sit on the Father's throne?
In order to answer this question accurately, can you point to a scripture that says Jesus is called 'THE theos'.
Please do not give me the Thomas declaration. As I have said before because it has a double definite article, Thomas could well have been referring to Jesus and then the Father as ultimately that is where all praise goes to.
Hebrews 1:8
http://interlinearbible.org/hebrews/1-8.htmEnglish Standard Version (©2001)
But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.Quote Please do not give me the Thomas declaration. As I have said before because it has a double definite article, Thomas could well have been referring to Jesus and then the Father as ultimately that is where all praise goes to. Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”
After you answer my last question, please tell me how many persons who were ever called 'the theos' anywhere in the Bible, are to receive praise, honor, glory, and power for ever and ever.
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 11 2012,01:29) Hebrews 1:8
http://interlinearbible.org/hebrews/1-8.htmEnglish Standard Version (©2001)
But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.
The Greek construction of Hebrews 1:8 allows the text to be translated in two legitimate ways:“God is your throne forever and ever….
and
“Thy Throne O God, is forever and ever…”So depending on your view you could make that verse go either way.
But let's say that Jesus is being referred to as THE Theos, then the answer to your question would be two.
If there were no verses that called Jesus THE Theos, then the answer could still be two, but also one.
Do you have any other verses that appear to call Jesus THE Theos?
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 11 2012,01:39) Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”
So what does this prove?That there is one who is God and another who is the Lamb.
This proves my point, not yours.
Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 11 2012,01:39) After you answer my last question, please tell me how many persons who were ever called 'the theos' anywhere in the Bible, are to receive praise, honor, glory, and power for ever and ever.
Please post all other scriptures or at least a few that call Jesus Theos, and then I will be better able to answer your question.So far we have 2 candidate scriptures. Not conclusive, but certainly contenders.
Acts 20:28
“Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God (tou theou) which He purchased with His own blood.Quote (t8 @ Nov. 10 2012,21:20) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 11 2012,01:39) Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”
So what does this prove?That there is one who is God and another who is the Lamb.
This proves my point, not yours.
This proves that the praise goes ultimately to two, not one.
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