State of grace

[terraricca]

Quote (Baker @ Sep. 27 2010,02:12)

Pierre How Greece “became” Rome? Macedonia was the first of the “four” that became a province “OF” Rome, in 149 BC. The “little” horn (horn stands for ruler) was Rome in the making; little means, it had a small beginning, but it grew into the greatest empire ever. You really need to check up on your history, not to mention the Bible. Georg

georg

yes it was in the making ,

if you fallow the history of Greek Alexander the great, next generation ,you can see that his 4 generals took over and made war between them selves and so one of them end up the winner and latter is that little horn who grew in power and became ROME the empire.

[Baker]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 26 2010,19:36)

Quote (Baker @ Sep. 27 2010,02:12) Pierre How Greece “became” Rome? Macedonia was the first of the “four” that became a province “OF” Rome, in 149 BC. The “little” horn (horn stands for ruler) was Rome in the making; little means, it had a small beginning, but it grew into the greatest empire ever. You really need to check up on your history, not to mention the Bible. Georg georg yes it was in the making , if you fallow the history of Greek Alexander the great, next generation ,you can see that his 4 generals took over and made war between them selves and so one of them end up the winner and latter is that little horn  who grew in power and became ROME the empire.

Again, check your history.
Why would Greece “become” Rome? didn't they like to be Greeks?

Georg

[terraricca]

Quote (Baker @ Sep. 27 2010,02:59)

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 26 2010,19:36) Quote (Baker @ Sep. 27 2010,02:12) Pierre How Greece “became” Rome? Macedonia was the first of the “four” that became a province “OF” Rome, in 149 BC. The “little” horn (horn stands for ruler) was Rome in the making; little means, it had a small beginning, but it grew into the greatest empire ever. You really need to check up on your history, not to mention the Bible. Georg georg yes it was in the making , if you fallow the history of Greek Alexander the great, next generation ,you can see that his 4 generals took over and made war between them selves and so one of them end up the winner and latter is that little horn  who grew in power and became ROME the empire. Again, check your history. Why would Greece “become” Rome? didn't they like to be Greeks? Georg

georg

if you do not want to research that history ,that s fine with me ,and i do not find myself obligated to do it for you,

i did it 35 years ago ,and i leave it with you ,the history will not go away.

Pierre

[Baker]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 26 2010,20:04)

Quote (Baker @ Sep. 27 2010,02:59) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 26 2010,19:36) Quote (Baker @ Sep. 27 2010,02:12) Pierre How Greece “became” Rome? Macedonia was the first of the “four” that became a province “OF” Rome, in 149 BC. The “little” horn (horn stands for ruler) was Rome in the making; little means, it had a small beginning, but it grew into the greatest empire ever. You really need to check up on your history, not to mention the Bible. Georg georg yes it was in the making , if you fallow the history of Greek Alexander the great, next generation ,you can see that his 4 generals took over and made war between them selves and so one of them end up the winner and latter is that little horn  who grew in power and became ROME the empire. Again, check your history. Why would Greece “become” Rome? didn't they like to be Greeks? Georg georg if you do not want to research that history ,that s fine with me ,and i do not find myself obligated to do it for you, i did it 35 years ago ,and i leave it with you ,the history will not go away. Pierre

You can't be serious; Greece becoming Rome? don't embarrass yourself.

Georg

[terraricca]

georg

you have now a chance to embarrass me ,

now i have never say that Greece becomes ROME ,fallow things properly Alexander the four generals ,fighting between them successions
killings ect. and in time they all got clustered together to become ROME empire

[Baker]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 26 2010,20:14)

georg you have now a chance to embarrass me , now i have never say that Greece becomes ROME ,fallow things properly Alexander the four generals ,fighting between them successions killings ect. and in time they all got clustered together to become ROME empire

No, I personally have no desire to embarrass you; unfortunately you're doing that your self.

You insist on what you “think” is the truth, the Bible, I agree, is hard to understand; but history? just go on google and find out, spend some time in research before you put stuff like that down.

You say now, you never said that Greece became Rome?

“””if you fallow the history of Greek Alexander the great, next generation ,you can see that his 4 generals took over and made war between them selves and so one of them end up the winner and latter is that little horn who grew in power and became ROME the empire.””

Looks familiar?

Georg

[terraricca]

georg

i stick with what i have said.;;”””if you fallow the history of Greek Alexander the great, next generation ,you can see that his 4 generals took over and made war between them selves and so one of them end up the winner and latter is that little horn who grew in power and became ROME the empire.””

Pierre

[Baker]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 26 2010,20:59)

georg i stick with what i have said.;;”””if you fallow the history of Greek Alexander the great, next generation ,you can see that his 4 generals took over and made war between them selves and so one of them end up the winner and latter is that little horn  who grew in power and became ROME the empire.”” Pierre

Do you know, well I guess you don't, Rome had it's beginning 800 BC.

Georg

[terraricca]

Quote (Baker @ Sep. 27 2010,04:07)

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 26 2010,20:59) georg i stick with what i have said.;;”””if you fallow the history of Greek Alexander the great, next generation ,you can see that his 4 generals took over and made war between them selves and so one of them end up the winner and latter is that little horn  who grew in power and became ROME the empire.”” Pierre Do you know, well I guess you don't, Rome had it's beginning 800 BC. Georg

georg

yes i know that ,but you have to see how they all come together in time,
all nations have a beginning even Germany and Britain and in time they grow to become what the are .it is not like one single family ,but a group of families that become the powerful.

and so it is with Rome aswell.

Pierre

[terraricca]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 27 2010,03:59)

georg i stick with what i have said.;;”””if you fallow the history of Greek Alexander the great, next generation ,you can see that his 4 generals took over and made war between them selves and so one of them end up the winner and latter is that little horn  who grew in power and became ROME the empire.”” Pierre

georg

here is part of the story;;

Ptolemy of Mauretania
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, search
For other people of the same name, see Ptolemy (name).

Bust of Ptolemy of Mauretania, c. 30–40, LouvrePtolemy of Mauretania (Greek: Πτολεμαῖος, Latin: Ptolemaeus, 1 BC-40) was a prince and the last Roman Client King of Mauretania.

Contents [hide]
1 Ancestry, family and early life
2 Reign as king
3 Death
4 Literature and art
5 Footnotes
6 References and sources

[edit] Ancestry, family and early life
Ptolemy was the son of King Juba II and Queen Cleopatra Selene II of Mauretania. He had a younger sister called Drusilla of Mauretania.[1] His father Juba II was the son of King Juba I of Numidia, was of Berber descent from North Africa and was an ally to the Roman Triumvir Pompey. His mother Cleopatra Selene II was the daughter to the Ptolemaic Greek Queen Cleopatra VII of Egypt and Roman Triumvir Mark Antony. Ptolemy was of Berber, Greek and Roman ancestry.

Ptolemy and his sister Drusilla were the only grandchildren to Juba I of Numidia, Cleopatra VII and were among the younger grandchildren to Mark Antony. Through his maternal grandfather, Ptolemy was a distant relative to Dictator Julius Caesar and the Julio-Claudian dynasty. Ptolemy was a first cousin to Germanicus and the Roman Emperor Claudius and a second cousin to the Emperor Caligula, the Empress Agrippina the Younger, the Empress Valeria Messalina and the Emperor Nero.

Ptolemy was most probably born in Caesaria, the capital of the Kingdom of Mauretania (modern Cherchell, Algeria) in the Roman Empire. Ptolemy was named in honor of his mother’s ancestors in particular the Ptolemaic dynasty. He was also named in honor of the memory of Cleopatra VII, the birthplace of his mother and the birthplace of her relatives. Cleopatra Selene II choosing this name for her son, she created a distinct Greek Egyptian tone and wanted to emphasize her role as the monarch who would continue the Ptolemaic dynasty.

Cleopatra Selene II by passed the ancestral names of her husband. She naming her son Ptolemy, instead of a Berber ancestral name is a rare example in Ancient History because instead reaching into the father’s family for a name; Cleopatra Selene II reached into her family to name her son. This is in particular if the son is the primary male heir. Ptolemy being named after his mother’s ancestors reveals his mother was the heiress of the Ptolemies and the leader of a Ptolemaic government in exile.

Ptolemy was sent to Rome by his parents to be educated. Through his parents, Ptolemy had Roman citizenship. His mother died in 6 and was placed in the Royal Mausoleum of Mauretania, which by built by his parents. In Rome, Ptolemy was well educated, received a Roman education and became Romanized. During his years living in Rome, Ptolemy was a part of the remarkable court of Antonia Minor. Antonia Minor was the youngest niece of the first Roman Emperor Augustus and youngest daughter to Roman Triumvir Mark Antony. Antonia Minor was a maternal aunt to Ptolemy who was a half-sister to his late mother. Cleopatra Selene II and Antonia Minor shared the same father but their mothers were different. The mother of Antonia Minor was Octavia Minor, the fourth wife of Mark Antony and the second sister to Octavian (future Augustus). Antonia Minor was an influential noble woman who supervised her circle of various princes and princesses. Her circle assisted in the political preservation of the Roman Empire’s borders and affairs of the client states. Ptolemy lived in Rome until 21 and left Rome to return to Mauretania to the court of his aging father.

[edit] Reign as king
When Ptolemy returned to Mauretania, Juba II made Ptolemy his co-ruler and successor. Coinage has survived from Juba II’s co-rule with his son. On coinage, on one side there is a central bust of Juba II with his title in Latin ‘King Juba’. On the other side there is a central bust of Ptolemy and the inscription stating in Latin ‘King Ptolemy son of Juba’. Juba II died in 23 and was placed along side with Cleopatra Selene II in Royal Mausoleum of Mauretania. Then Ptolemy became the sole ruler of Mauretania.

During his co-rule with Juba II into his sole rule Ptolemy like his father appeared to be a patron of art, learning, literature and sports. In Athens Greece, statues were erected to Juba II and Ptolemy in a gymnasium in Athens and a statue was erected in Ptolemy’s honor in reference to his taste in literature. Ptolemy dedicated statues of himself on the Acropolis. The Athenians honored Ptolemy and his family with inscriptions dedicated to them and this reveals that the Athenians had respect towards the Roman Client Monarchs and their families which was common in the 1st century.

The local Berber tribes in 17, the Numidian Tacfarinas and Garamantes started to revolt against the Kingdom of Mauretania and Rome. The war had ravaged Africa and Berbers, including former slaves from Ptolemy’s household had joined in the revolt. Ptolemy through his military campaigns was unsuccessful to end the Berber revolt. The war had reached the point that Ptolemy summoned the Roman Governor of Africa, Publius Cornelius Dolobella and his army to assist Ptolemy to end the revolt. The war finally ended in 24. Although Ptolemy’s army and the Romans won, both sides suffered considerable losses of infantry and cavalry.

The Roman Senate impressed by Ptolemy’s loyal conduct, had sent a Roman Senator to visit Ptolemy. The Roman Senator recognized Ptolemy’s loyal conduct and awarded him an ivory scepter, an embroidered triumphal robe and the senator greeted Ptolemy as king, ally and friend. This recognition was a tradition which recognizes and rewards the allies to Rome.

Ptolemy through his military campaigns, had proven his capability and loyal as an ally and Client King to Rome. He was a popular monarch with the Berbers and had travelled extensive throughout the Roman Empire, including Alexandria Egypt and Ostia Italy.

In Caesaria, prayers were offered for the health of Ptolemy at the Temple of Saturn frugifer dues. Mauretania was a region that was abundant in agriculture and the God Saturn was the God of agriculture. Saturn became a prominent God in Mauretania and his cult became an important cult in the kingdom. A temple and a sanctuary cult were dedicated to Saturn in Caesaria by 30 and throughout Mauretania various temples were dedicated to Saturn.

Ptolemy’s parents descended from backgrounds that had strong endemic traditions in claiming their descent from Hercules (see Heracleidae). His mother originated from a country, that there were various imperial cults dedicated to the Pharaohs and their relatives and there is a possibility that his father’s Royal Numidian ancestors may had imperial cults dedicated to them.

In a surviving inscription in Mauretania hints that either Juba II or Ptolemy established an imperial cult honoring Hiempsal II, a previous Numidian King and paternal grandfather of Juba II. According to inscriptional evidence, Ptolemy may have established a Royal Mauretanian Cult honoring himself and his late parents (see Berber mythology). One inscription is dedicated to his genius and another inscription expressed wishes for his good
health.

Evidence suggesting that Ptolemy could have deified Juba II after his death, is from the writings of the Christian author of the 3rd century Marcus Minucius Felix. There could have been a cult dedicated to Juba II. In Felix’s Octavius, the writer records a dialogue between a Christian and a pagan from Cirta. This dialogue was a part of a Christian argument that divinity is impossible for mortals. Felix lists humans who were said to have become divine: Saturn, Jupiter, Romulus and Juba. Further literary evidence, suggesting the deification of Juba II even Ptolemy, is from the brief euhemerist exercise entitled On the Vanity of Idols by the Christian Saint of the 3rd century, Cyprian. In his exercise in deflating the gods, Cyprian observed and stated that the Mauretanians were manifestly worshipping their kings and did not conceal their name by any disguise. According to the surviving evidence there is a strong probability that Juba II and Ptolemy, after they had died they were deified by the Berbers.

Coinage from Ptolemy’s sole reign is very different from the coins from the time Ptolemy co-ruled with Juba II. His royal title on coinage is in Latin ‘King Ptolemy’ and there is no surviving coinage that shows his royal title in Greek. On his coinage there is no Ancient Egyptian imagery. The coinage from his sole reign displays a variety of themes. Ptolemy personified himself as an Elephant on coins. Elephant personification is an ancient coinage tradition in which his late parents did when they ruled Mauretania. The Elephant has symbolic functions: an icon representing Africa and an iconic monetary characteristic from the Hellenistic period which displays influence and power. Another animal, Ptolemy uses on coins is a Lion leaping which is a symbol of animal kingship and is another symbol representing Africa.

Other coins display Roman themes. A rare revealing gold coin dated from the year 39 celebrates Ptolemy’s descent, his rule and his loyalty to Rome. On one side of the coin, there is a central bust of Juba II and is inscribed in Latin ‘King Juba son of Juba’. Juba II is personified like a Greek Egyptian Pharaoh from the Ptolemaic dynasty. The other side of the coin is an eagle with its wings displayed on a thunderbolt and Ptolemy’s initials are inscribed in Latin. Through his father’s central bust and inscription, Ptolemy is celebrating and showing the continuation of his family and rule, while honoring his paternal ancestry. The personification of his father as a Ptolemaic Pharaoh, Ptolemy is celebrating his Greek Egyptian descent and possibly his links to Alexander the Great. Ptolemy through the eagle is celebrating the Roman Peace, honoring the rule of the Roman Empire, while he is showing his allegiance and loyalty to Ancient Rome. Another coin dating from the year 40 celebrates his Roman Senatorial decree. The coin shows on one side, a curule chair upon which is a wreath and a scepter leaning against it. On the other side of the coin, Ptolemy is wearing a fillet on his head.

Ptolemy seemed to have had expensive tastes and enjoyed luxury items. He owned a custom made Wine Citrus Wood Table. Mauretania had many citrus trees and produced many citrus wood tables. Any item made from Citrus Wood was sought after by aristocrats and monarchs. Citrus wood was a sought after item because for its color and the complexity of its grain in its surface. The grain pattern can be wavy or hooked. The wood was treated with wax and wheat to protect the coating of the wood’s bark and it was very sensitive to clean and maintain.

Ptolemy married a woman called Julia Urania, who came from obscure origins. She is only known through a funeral inscription found at Caesaria through her freedwoman Julia Bodina. Bodina ascribed Julia Urania as ‘Queen Julia Urania’. There is a possibility that Julia Urania was a member of the Royal Family of Emesa (modern Homs Syria). Ptolemy married Julia Urania at an unknown date during the 1st century. She bore Ptolemy in about 38, a daughter called Drusilla.

[edit] Death
The Kingdom of Mauretania was one of the wealthiest Roman Client Kingdoms and after 24; Ptolemy continued to reign without interruption. In late 40, Caligula invited Ptolemy to Rome and welcomed him with appropriate honours. As Ptolemy entered an amphitheater during a gladiatorial show, Ptolemy wore a purple cloak that attracted admiration. Out of jealousy, Caligula ordered Ptolemy’s execution.

After Ptolemy’s murder in Rome, his former household slave Aedemon, from outrage and out of loyalty to his former master, wanted to take revenge against Caligula and started the revolt of Mauretania with the Berbers against Rome. The Berber revolt was a violent one and the rebels were skilled fighters against the Roman Army. The Roman Generals Gnaeus Hosidius Geta and Gaius Suetonius Paulinus were needed to end the revolt. When the revolt ended in 44, Claudius assessed the kingdom and its future. He decided to divide Mauretania into two provinces which were Mauretania Tingitana and Mauretania Caesariensis.

Much prior to Ptolemy’s death, Caligula had sent him a peculiar message stating: “Do nothing at all, neither good or bad, to the bearer.” Claudius tried a Roman Senator called Gaius Rabirius Postumus for treason who before tried unsuccessfully to recover money from Ptolemy

this is almost at the end wen Rome is starting to take over the remains of Greece power .

Pierre

[mikeangel]

Pierre, Your fingers must be smoking. How long did it take you to type that? Peace

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeangel @ Sep. 28 2010,07:47)

Pierre, Your fingers must be smoking. How long did it take you to type that? Peace

MA

this is all on the internet ,copy and paste,the time is taking is for research were it is and who.

Pierre

[mikeangel]

Were you baptised in a church or taken communion in 30 years?

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeangel @ Sep. 29 2010,18:12)

Were you baptised in a church or taken communion in 30 years?

Mark

are you baptised according to the apostles teaching totally submerge??

i know catholic baptise baby s ,i know i was also born in a catholic familly.

full of pagan worship rituals

Pierre

[mikeangel]

Pierre, The reason that I am posting this in all of your responses is because even though I do my best to answer your questions in good faith, you ignore mine, especially when the answers you would be forced to give would show your duplicity. You then used one statement I made about holding hands with other people and saying the our father and tried to say it was wrong, when it would be black and white right, in that that is the one prayer Jesus gave us and holding hands would be showing love to one another as he commanded. You then respond by cutting and pasteing incredibly long articles that have nothing to do with our discussion………… Baptism is not a catholic ritual, Jesus was baptised. You got the ignorance to call him pagan? Communion was instituted by Jesus at the last supper, and he asked us to do that in memory of him. You got the guts to call that pagan too? In alll of that being said, you never answered the questions- Were you baptised in a church? Any church? Have you taken the lords supper in thirty years? Be honest. I will ask you that until you give me a honest answer like I give you. (Treating others as you would be treated) You answer those and I will discuss my specifics. Please. Peace and Love- Mark

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeangel @ Sep. 30 2010,05:04)

Pierre, The reason that I am posting this in all of your responses is because even though I do my best to answer your questions in good faith, you ignore mine, especially when the answers you would be forced to give would show your duplicity. You then used one statement I made about holding hands with other people and saying the our father and tried to say it was wrong, when it would be black and white right, in that that is the one prayer Jesus gave us and holding hands would be showing love to one another as he commanded. You then respond by cutting and pasteing incredibly long articles that have nothing to do with our discussion………… Baptism is not a catholic ritual, Jesus was baptised. You got the ignorance to call him pagan? Communion was instituted by Jesus at the last supper, and he asked us to do that in memory of him. You got the guts to call that pagan too?  In alll of that being said, you never answered the questions- Were you baptised in a church? Any church? Have you taken the lords supper in thirty years? Be honest. I will ask you that until you give me a honest answer like I give you. (Treating others as you would be treated) You answer those and I will discuss my specifics. Please. Peace and Love- Mark

Mark,

mainly all catholic rituals are copies of the bible but not applied as it should be,

all churches to me are useless, READ TO ME;i have come to over grow them and do not need them anymore,i am lead by the spirit of scriptures that is truth,
and remember we are not living in the time of the apostles
this are the time of the end were separation takes place,

i have clean my mind from all churches polution,

Pierre

[Baker]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 27 2010,04:50)

Quote (Baker @ Sep. 27 2010,04:07) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 26 2010,20:59) georg i stick with what i have said.;;”””if you fallow the history of Greek Alexander the great, next generation ,you can see that his 4 generals took over and made war between them selves and so one of them end up the winner and latter is that little horn  who grew in power and became ROME the empire.”” Pierre Do you know, well I guess you don't, Rome had it's beginning 800 BC. Georg georg yes i know that ,but you have to see how they all come together in time, all nations have a beginning even Germany and Britain and in time they grow to become what the are .it is not like one single family ,but a group of families that become the powerful. and so it is with Rome aswell. Pierre

Your understanding of history matches your understanding of scriptures.

Georg

[terraricca]

Quote (Baker @ Oct. 02 2010,14:41)

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 27 2010,04:50) Quote (Baker @ Sep. 27 2010,04:07) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 26 2010,20:59) georg i stick with what i have said.;;”””if you fallow the history of Greek Alexander the great, next generation ,you can see that his 4 generals took over and made war between them selves and so one of them end up the winner and latter is that little horn  who grew in power and became ROME the empire.”” Pierre Do you know, well I guess you don't, Rome had it's beginning 800 BC. Georg georg yes i know that ,but you have to see how they all come together in time, all nations have a beginning even Germany and Britain and in time they grow to become what the are .it is not like one single family ,but a group of families that become the powerful. and so it is with Rome aswell. Pierre Your understanding of history matches your understanding of scriptures. Georg

georg

thank you

Pierre

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