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Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 15 2013,11:40) I do not think the AKJV has that correct as it seems to conflict with other passages that state Jesus was made in the likeness of a human.
The only “conflict” is caused by your personal wishes, Kerwin. In reality, there is no conflict whatsoever between made in the likeness of a human” and partook in flesh.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 16 2013,07:33) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 15 2013,11:40) I do not think the AKJV has that correct as it seems to conflict with other passages that state Jesus was made in the likeness of a human.
The only “conflict” is caused by your personal wishes, Kerwin. In reality, there is no conflict whatsoever between made in the likeness of a human” and partook in flesh.
Mike,The AKJV “took” verse could support my claim that Jesus did not take on the form of an angel. It disagrees with your claim he did. I don't use it because it is questionable.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 16 2013,09:57) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 16 2013,03:29) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 16 2013,06:37) Wakeup, Philippians 2:7
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)7 but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
here is the passage I am speaking of and it states Jesus “was made in the likeness of men”.
Kerwin.What was He *before* he was made a man?
wakeup.
Wakeup,A man's flesh is made of a woman and his breath comes from God and when the two meet he first becomes a living soul. Jesus was the same as any man that is made of a woman before he was made of the seed of David.
Kerwin.You are making things up as you go.
Your statement is scriptural contradiction.
Micah 5:2 But thou, *Bethlehem Ephratah*, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah,
***yet out of thee shall he come forth *unto me* that is to be ruler in Israel***;
***whose goings forth have been from of old***,
***from everlasting***.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 16 2013,17:53) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 16 2013,09:57) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 16 2013,03:29) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 16 2013,06:37) Wakeup, Philippians 2:7
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)7 but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
here is the passage I am speaking of and it states Jesus “was made in the likeness of men”.
Kerwin.What was He *before* he was made a man?
wakeup.
Wakeup,A man's flesh is made of a woman and his breath comes from God and when the two meet he first becomes a living soul. Jesus was the same as any man that is made of a woman before he was made of the seed of David.
Kerwin.You are making things up as you go.
Your statement is scriptural contradiction.
Micah 5:2 But thou, *Bethlehem Ephratah*, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah,
***yet out of thee shall he come forth *unto me* that is to be ruler in Israel***;
***whose goings forth have been from of old***,
***from everlasting***.wakeup.
Wakeup,I combined words from three passages.
Galatians 4:4
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)4 but when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
The body of Jesus, as is common to mankind, was made of a woman.
Romans 1:3
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)3 concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Jesus' flesh was, as promised by God, made from the seed of David.
Genesis 2:7
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Adam was flesh into which the breath was breathed and who then became a living soul.
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 16 2013,05:53) Kerwin. You are making things up as you go.
That is Kerwin's normal method of operation.Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 16 2013,05:53) Your statement is scriptural contradiction.
And that is, more often than not, the result.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 17 2013,06:36) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 16 2013,17:53) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 16 2013,09:57) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 16 2013,03:29) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 16 2013,06:37) Wakeup, Philippians 2:7
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)7 but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
here is the passage I am speaking of and it states Jesus “was made in the likeness of men”.
Kerwin.What was He *before* he was made a man?
wakeup.
Wakeup,A man's flesh is made of a woman and his breath comes from God and when the two meet he first becomes a living soul. Jesus was the same as any man that is made of a woman before he was made of the seed of David.
Kerwin.You are making things up as you go.
Your statement is scriptural contradiction.
Micah 5:2 But thou, *Bethlehem Ephratah*, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah,
***yet out of thee shall he come forth *unto me* that is to be ruler in Israel***;
***whose goings forth have been from of old***,
***from everlasting***.wakeup.
Wakeup,I combined words from three passages.
Galatians 4:4
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)4 but when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
The body of Jesus, as is common to mankind, was made of a woman.
Romans 1:3
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)3 concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Jesus' flesh was, as promised by God, made from the seed of David.
Genesis 2:7
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Adam was flesh into which the breath was breathed and who then became a living soul.
Kerwin.Are You AND Mike going to answer this?
Micah 5:2 But thou, *Bethlehem Ephratah*, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah,
***yet out of thee shall he come forth *unto me* that is to be ruler in Israel***;
***whose goings forth have been from of old***,
***from everlasting***.IS YOUR SO CALLED MAN WITH THE SPIRIT IN HIM,//spokesman.
**A MAN OF OLD**?? **A MAN OF EVERLASTING**??wakeup.
Why are you saying my name? What is it you want to know?
Micah 5:2 is one of the many scriptures that speak of the pre-existence of Jesus Christ. And not as a “used to be God but isn't God anymore” thing. But as an individual, sentient BEING who had glory alongside God before the world began.
Through Micah, God is telling how the one who WILL come from the seed of David actually had his origins in the distant past.
That is what Jesus meant in Mark 12:35-37. He was saying that he couldn't LITERALLY be the son of David, or David would never call him “My Lord”. He was trying to tell you that he is not only the branch of David, ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, but is also the Root of David as well.
So yes, the sentient being we know as Jesus Christ existed in heaven alongside God – before God, ALONE AND BY HIMSELF, created all things through him.
Wakeup,
I think I was planning to but I forgot to do so. My priority was to point out where I was coming from Scriptural when I say that Jesus like other humans had a body that was made of a woman and then first became a living when God breathed the breath of life into that body.
I don't see where these things disagree with Micah 5:2 as God foreknew Jesus and foreordained him to be the Son of God. Jesus was born in Bethlehem, but even before Micah spoke of it God knew it and foreordained it.
Quote Micah 5:2 But thou, *Bethlehem Ephratah*, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, ***yet out of thee shall he come forth *unto me* that is to be ruler in Israel***;
***whose goings forth have been from of old***,
***from everlasting***.I see the words but I do not see your interpretation of them and about the word I see no contradiction with what I am writing in this conversation.
Quote IS YOUR SO CALLED MAN WITH THE SPIRIT IN HIM,//spokesman.
**A MAN OF OLD**?? **A MAN OF EVERLASTING**??I merely repeated Scripture's claim that Jesus was made in regard to the flesh of the seed of David, who we know from elsewhere is a woman. This same point is made later when we are told Jesus is made of a woman. We are also told in Luke that he was conceived within his mother, which is just another way of saying his flesh was made of a woman, the seed of David. The account of Adam being made adds the rest.
Peter, like Micah, speaks of Jesus being foreordained.
1 Peter 1:19-21
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
Here is Paul applying the same pattern to believers.
Romans 8:29
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
I combined words from three passages.
Galatians 4:4
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)4 but when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
The body of Jesus, as is common to mankind, was made of a woman.
Romans 1:3
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)3 concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
Jesus' flesh was, as promised by God, made from the seed of David.
Genesis 2:7
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Adam was flesh into which the breath was breathed and who then became a living soul.[/quote]
Kerwin………..> you have it right Brother.peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene
k,and g
were are those gods coming from;
Ps 138:1 I will praise you, O LORD, with all my heart;
before the “gods” I will sing your praise.
Ps 138:2 I will bow down toward your holy temple
and will praise your name
for your love and your faithfulness,
for you have exalted above all things
your name and your word.Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 19 2013,05:51) k,and g were are those gods coming from;
Ps 138:1 I will praise you, O LORD, with all my heart;
before the “gods” I will sing your praise.
Ps 138:2 I will bow down toward your holy temple
and will praise your name
for your love and your faithfulness,
for you have exalted above all things
your name and your word.
Pierre,They are the children of the most high, which is what the Law calls the children of Israel and which the NT calls all those that believe.
JESUS PRAISED HIS FATHER BEFORE THE OTHER GODS.
HE PRAISED HIS FATHER BEFORE PONTIUS PILATE,AND THE SCIBES AND PHARISEES,
WHICH ARE AS GODS IN THE EYES OF THE JEWS AND PONTIUS PILATE TO THE ROMANS.
JULIUS CEASAR WAS A GOD TO THE ROMANS.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 19 2013,07:28) JESUS PRAISED HIS FATHER BEFORE THE OTHER GODS.
HE PRAISED HIS FATHER BEFORE PONTIUS PILATE,AND THE SCIBES AND PHARISEES,
WHICH ARE AS GODS IN THE EYES OF THE JEWS AND PONTIUS PILATE TO THE ROMANS.
JULIUS CEASAR WAS A GOD TO THE ROMANS.wakeup.
Wakeup,A different meaning for gods than that which I was using but you understanding seems reasonable.
Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 18 2013,19:28) JULIUS CEASAR WAS A GOD TO THE ROMANS
And Beelzebub (Satan) was the god of Ekron – even according to the words of Jehovah Himself.Angels and demons are also called gods in scripture. So perhaps it was these “lesser gods” to whom David referred in the psalm Pierre quoted.
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 15 2013,20:42) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 16 2013,07:33) …there is no conflict whatsoever between made in the likeness of a human” and partook in flesh.
Mike,The AKJV “took” verse could support my claim that Jesus did not take on the form of an angel. It disagrees with your claim he did. I don't use it because it is questionable.
I'm not sure what you're saying, or why a “questionable” verse that “could” support your claim would end up being a SOLID disagreement to my claim.But I do wish you would address my words in the quote box. I wish you would address them DIRECTLY, and show me why “made in the likeness of a human” and “partook in flesh” can NOT be speaking of the same thing.
In fact, I still wish you would address all nine of those statements I made, and address each one DIRECTLY, showing how those things could NOT possibly be said about a spirit being who was later caused to be born of a human woman.
But as usual, you are more interested in spouting unintelligible nonsense than you are in directly putting your money where your mouth is.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 19 2013,21:21) Quote (Wakeup @ Oct. 18 2013,19:28) JULIUS CEASAR WAS A GOD TO THE ROMANS
And Beelzebub (Satan) was the god of Ekron – even according to the words of Jehovah Himself.Angels and demons are also called gods in scripture. So perhaps it was these “lesser gods” to whom David referred in the psalm Pierre quoted.
Mike,Yet another meaning of the word god but wakeup's choice seems to have more bearing on the context.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 19 2013,21:27) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 15 2013,20:42) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 16 2013,07:33) …there is no conflict whatsoever between made in the likeness of a human” and partook in flesh.
Mike,The AKJV “took” verse could support my claim that Jesus did not take on the form of an angel. It disagrees with your claim he did. I don't use it because it is questionable.
I'm not sure what you're saying, or why a “questionable” verse that “could” support your claim would end up being a SOLID disagreement to my claim.But I do wish you would address my words in the quote box. I wish you would address them DIRECTLY, and show me why “made in the likeness of a human” and “partook in flesh” can NOT be speaking of the same thing.
In fact, I still wish you would address all nine of those statements I made, and address each one DIRECTLY, showing how those things could NOT possibly be said about a spirit being who was later caused to be born of a human woman.
But as usual, you are more interested in spouting unintelligible nonsense than you are in directly putting your money where your mouth is.
Mike,As what I am saying Hebrews 2:16 bears a Trinitarian slant in stating Jesus did not take on the nature of angels, which is not even something angel could do being it already has that nature. Your Christology would be written “For verily he did not remain in the nature of angels”.
Your question on the other hand deals with Hebrews 2:14 which the AKJV seems to have translated correctly as:
Hebrews 2:14
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Both Jesus and the children are said to share in flesh in blood though different words are used that mean the same thing just as partake and take part are synonyms. Both parties are made by God. “Took on” seems to contradict the idea expressed in the words “was made” where “took part” does not.
I disagree. I see no scripture where a man was called a god by an inspired writer of scripture.
The fact that pagans and others considered men to be gods is of no consequence. When an inspired writer of scripture said “god”, he was talking about powerful spirit beings – not men.
(Sometimes, he was talking about man-made idols that people worshipped as powerful spirit beings, but again, not men.)
Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 19 2013,11:50) Both Jesus and the children are said to share in flesh in blood though different words are used that mean the same thing just as partake and take part are synonyms. Both parties are made by God. “Took on” seems to contradict the idea expressed in the words “was made” where “took part” does not.
Despite your biased reasoning that one “seems to contradict” the other, in reality they don't contradict each other.Some of us will “partake” in divine nature, right? Does this mean that we don't HAVE a nature now, and the “partaking in divine nature” will be our original state? Or does it speak of someone who ALREADY HAS a non-divine nature taking on a new and different nature?
Obviously, it is the latter, right? So the fact that Jesus “partook” in flesh means that he already existed in a different form before “partaking in flesh”. And that same thought can be expressed many different ways, such as:
1. He partook in flesh.
2. He was made in the likeness of sinful flesh.
3. He became flesh.
4. He was transformed into flesh.
5. He was made in the likeness of human beings.
Etc.
And your BIASED denial of these things is really of no consequence to any truth seeker, Kerwin. Just like my insistence that the earth is flat would be of no consequence to anyone seeking the actual truth of the matter. In other words, you can keep SAYING that one contradicts the other until you're blue in the face……… but it won't have any bearing on the truthful outcome of the discussion.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 19 2013,23:52) I disagree. I see no scripture where a man was called a god by an inspired writer of scripture. The fact that pagans and others considered men to be gods is of no consequence. When an inspired writer of scripture said “god”, he was talking about powerful spirit beings – not men.
(Sometimes, he was talking about man-made idols that people worshipped as powerful spirit beings, but again, not men.)
Mike,Acts 28:6
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)6 Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.
Quote 4. Θεός is used Plural of 'elowahh; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative — angels, of whatever can in any respect be likened to God, or resembles him in any way: Hebraistically, equivalent to God's representative or vicegerent, of magistrates and judges, Quote Plural of 'elowahh; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative — angels, Both languages apply their synonyms of god to human and the Hebrew language is not the language of pagans. Paul had no objection to being called a god by the peoples of the island though he object highly to being worshiped as a god in another event recorded in Scripture.
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