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Quote (Ed J @ May 17 2013,18:05) Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,16:57) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 17 2013,04:13) Quote (Ed J @ May 16 2013,14:04) Hi Kerwin and Gene, You guys are both right of course, but
you cannot convince Jammin or Mike of this.
Hi Ed and All,It seems obvious to me that Thomas said those words TO Jesus. I understand that to mean Thomas was ADDRESSING Jesus AS “my Lord and my God”.
I have no problem with that understanding, nor is that understanding prohibited by any scripture.
I think Gene's explanation – that Thomas was somehow able to see the being of God Almighty inside of Jesus, and therefore addressed two different persons – is very far-reaching, and unsubstantiated by the words in the text.
I could almost get on board with Kerwin's “exclamation” theory – as if Jesus was saying, OH MY GOD! – except I don't know of the phrase, OH MY LORD AND MY GOD!
“OMG!” is probably the most used combination of letters among those who text. But I haven't ever seen “OMLAMG!” as an exclamation.
How about you? Have you ever heard someone exclaim, Oh my Lord AND my God! ?
So while it doesn't bother me too much that people like you, Gene, and Kerwin must exhaustingly explain away those words, I will continue to understand them as Thomas ADDRESSING Jesus as his Lord and his God.
Mike,Koine Greek is weird and Thomas may possibly have been saying the equivalent to O my God and O my Lord as he had definite articles in there that translators did not translate. He basically said “the Lord of me and the God of me” from what I understand. Being Trinitarians the translators may have been led by their bias. This is a rough hypothesis I have not tested nor do I think it is very important.
My point is the bottom line is that Thomas is replying to Jesus words and Jesus' state of being and not calling Jesus anything. Peter tells Jesus who he is with the words “you are”. Thomas does not use those word even though Jammin is convinced he does.
Hi Everyone,Thomas recognized YHVH in Jesus! (John 20:28)
BECAUSE OF THE WORKS; is this not at all clear to you guys?John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest;
and how can we know the way? (Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and
put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. John 20:25)John 10:38: But if I do, though ye believe not me,
believe the works: that ye may know,
and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.THOMAS THEREFORE BELIEVED THE WORKS! (John 20:29)
John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me,
thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.2Cor.5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ,
reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing
their trespasses unto them(because of Christ); and hath
committed unto us (HolySpirit)”The Word” of reconciliation.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
what are you talking about?
LOLdo not put your own words to thomas'mouth
you said
:Thomas recognized YHVH in Jesus! (John 20:28)where can you read that in john 20.28?thomas did not say that
thomas said to jesus, MY LORD AND MY GOD!
that is the right word and not thomas recognized YHVH in jesus in john 20.28
make your own bible LOL
Hi Jammin,
So “Son OF God” means “God” to you?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (jammin @ May 17 2013,13:30) Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,16:35) Quote (jammin @ May 17 2013,10:39) Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,12:30) Quote (jammin @ May 17 2013,07:24) did moses tell to the read sea MY LORD AND GOD? give me the verse boy
Jammin,Thomas was replying to the miraculous resurrection of Jesus Anointed ant in my example Moses was replying to the miraculous dividing of the Red Sea.
im asking youdid moses tell to the red sea my LORD and MY GOD?
what verse is that?
Jammin,I already answered that point, which is off topic, by revealing why I used the example I did. Do you now understand what it means to reply and say the words “My Lord and my God”?
this is the 4th time ill ask youwhere can you read that moses told to the red sea MY LORD AND MY GOD?
pls give me version
Jammin,Your seemingly willing lack of knowledge is tiring. Do you really want to go into a conversation about examples. If so then start another one instead of throwing a red herring into this one.
As for this conversation I have used a few examples to demonstrate that when a person is either responding to an event or another person's words and saying “my Lord and my God” does not mean they are calling the person they are speaking to or the event “my Lord and my God”.
With that I rest my case and unless you find someone creditable in Scripture who tells Jesus “you are my Lord and my God” you have no case.
Jammin and all,
Since Jammin seems not to understand the use of examples and I could use looking into it here is the beginning of a conversation on that topic. The definition of example I am using is:
Quote : a parallel or closely similar case especially when serving as a precedent or model Note: My source is Merriam Webster online dictionary.
Quote (Ed J @ May 16 2013,22:58) Thomas was surprised to see Jesus alive -and-
he was calling YHVH his God.
If you say so.I believe you are claiming that Thomas was saying, My Lord, alive and well?! My God, that's amazing!
But if that was the case, why the word “and”? Lots of people say “OMG!”. But I don't ever hear anyone saying “AND OMG!”
Quote (kerwin @ May 16 2013,23:57) Peter tells Jesus who he is with the words “you are”.
In what context? Surely Peter wouldn't have unexpectedly seen Jesus on a street corner and said, YOU ARE my Lord! He more than likely would have just said, My Lord!Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,14:17) As for this conversation I have used a few examples to demonstrate that when a person is either responding to an event or another person's words and saying “my Lord and my God” does not mean they are calling the person they are speaking to or the event “my Lord and my God”.
Kerwin,I would agree if the person said “My Lord!” OR “My God!” I don't think anyone ever exclaims, “My Lord AND my God!”
Perhaps you could do a Google search for that phrase with the word “and” included?
Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,14:31) : a parallel or closely similar case especially when serving as a precedent or model
Is there a word missing here?Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 18 2013,05:59) Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,14:17) As for this conversation I have used a few examples to demonstrate that when a person is either responding to an event or another person's words and saying “my Lord and my God” does not mean they are calling the person they are speaking to or the event “my Lord and my God”.
Kerwin,I would agree if the person said “My Lord!” OR “My God!” I don't think anyone ever exclaims, “My Lord AND my God!”
Perhaps you could do a Google search for that phrase with the word “and” included?
Mike,It sounds redundant but I know Jesus said he was going to “our Father and our God” so redundancy in speech occurred.
I do know he was responding to both the situation and Jesus' words as well as speaking to Jesus. An expression of faith seems to fit those things.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 18 2013,06:00) Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,14:31) : a parallel or closely similar case especially when serving as a precedent or model
Is there a word missing here?
Mike,Not of my making as far as I can tell.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 18 2013,05:51) Quote (kerwin @ May 16 2013,23:57) Peter tells Jesus who he is with the words “you are”.
In what context? Surely Peter wouldn't have unexpectedly seen Jesus on a street corner and said, YOU ARE my Lord! He more than likely would have just said, My Lord!
Mike,“My Lord” is a form of address just like Rabboni. Thomas was not addressing Jesus he was answering him and speaking to him. Perhaps an address as a form of surrender.
Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,18:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 18 2013,06:00) Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,14:31) : a parallel or closely similar case especially when serving as a precedent or model
Is there a word missing here?
Mike,Not of my making as far as I can tell.
It seems to be a definition of some word……… but WHAT word?Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,18:55) Thomas was not addressing Jesus he was answering him and speaking to him.
Isn't that what the word “address” means?“Answering” and “speaking to”?
Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,18:43) I do know he was responding to both the situation and Jesus' words as well as speaking to Jesus. An expression of faith seems to fit those things.
Okay, but let's look at it from the other angle: What scripture would prohibit Thomas from simply addressing Jesus as his Lord and his God?Jesus is a lord and a god, right?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 18 2013,07:29) Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,18:43) I do know he was responding to both the situation and Jesus' words as well as speaking to Jesus. An expression of faith seems to fit those things.
Okay, but let's look at it from the other angle: What scripture would prohibit Thomas from simply addressing Jesus as his Lord and his God?Jesus is a lord and a god, right?
Mike,I have never heard of “my god” being a form of address in Scripture though I believe it is technically a possibility. I also believe it might be plausible to answer someones words by addressing them as an act of surrender.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 18 2013,07:24) Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,18:55) Thomas was not addressing Jesus he was answering him and speaking to him.
Isn't that what the word “address” means?“Answering” and “speaking to”?
Mike,You address someone when you speak to them.
You answer someone when you speak to them in response to their words.
So answering is a more precise form of addressing, but it is not the only form.Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 18 2013,07:21) Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,18:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 18 2013,06:00) Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,14:31) : a parallel or closely similar case especially when serving as a precedent or model
Is there a word missing here?
Mike,Not of my making as far as I can tell.
It seems to be a definition of some word……… but WHAT word?
Mike,It is a definition of example.
Quote (Ed J @ May 17 2013,18:05) Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,16:57) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 17 2013,04:13) Quote (Ed J @ May 16 2013,14:04) Hi Kerwin and Gene, You guys are both right of course, but
you cannot convince Jammin or Mike of this.
Hi Ed and All,It seems obvious to me that Thomas said those words TO Jesus. I understand that to mean Thomas was ADDRESSING Jesus AS “my Lord and my God”.
I have no problem with that understanding, nor is that understanding prohibited by any scripture.
I think Gene's explanation – that Thomas was somehow able to see the being of God Almighty inside of Jesus, and therefore addressed two different persons – is very far-reaching, and unsubstantiated by the words in the text.
I could almost get on board with Kerwin's “exclamation” theory – as if Jesus was saying, OH MY GOD! – except I don't know of the phrase, OH MY LORD AND MY GOD!
“OMG!” is probably the most used combination of letters among those who text. But I haven't ever seen “OMLAMG!” as an exclamation.
How about you? Have you ever heard someone exclaim, Oh my Lord AND my God! ?
So while it doesn't bother me too much that people like you, Gene, and Kerwin must exhaustingly explain away those words, I will continue to understand them as Thomas ADDRESSING Jesus as his Lord and his God.
Mike,Koine Greek is weird and Thomas may possibly have been saying the equivalent to O my God and O my Lord as he had definite articles in there that translators did not translate. He basically said “the Lord of me and the God of me” from what I understand. Being Trinitarians the translators may have been led by their bias. This is a rough hypothesis I have not tested nor do I think it is very important.
My point is the bottom line is that Thomas is replying to Jesus words and Jesus' state of being and not calling Jesus anything. Peter tells Jesus who he is with the words “you are”. Thomas does not use those word even though Jammin is convinced he does.
Hi Everyone,Thomas recognized YHVH in Jesus! (John 20:28)
BECAUSE OF THE WORKS; is this not at all clear to you guys?John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest;
and how can we know the way? (Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and
put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. John 20:25)John 10:38: But if I do, though ye believe not me,
believe the works: that ye may know,
and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.THOMAS THEREFORE BELIEVED THE WORKS! (John 20:29)
John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me,
thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.2Cor.5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ,
reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing
their trespasses unto them(because of Christ); and hath
committed unto us (HolySpirit)”The Word” of reconciliation.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
ED J………… You have posted it exactly right. The light finally came on in Thomas and he finally understood the the Father (GOD) was truly “IN” his Lord Jesus Christ, and responded by saying my Lord “AND” my GOD.Jesus had been telling them all along that the Father was “IN” him, and Thomas suddenly came to realize it, just that simple. IMO
peace and love to you and yours brother………………………gene
Hi Gene,
Yes I know, but the flesh mind always complicates the simple.
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Gene Balthrop @ May 19 2013,13:56) ED J………… You have posted it exactly right. The light finally came on in Thomas and he finally understood the the Father (GOD) was truly “IN” his Lord Jesus Christ, and responded by saying my Lord “AND” my GOD.
John 20
27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
Perhaps, when Thomas put his hand into the side of Jesus, he FELT the Father inside of Jesus.
That theory is every bit as plausible as the one you guys have put forth.
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