Spirit nature

[GeneBalthrop]

Jammin………..If Thomas meant Jesus was the Lord God himself, he would have said it that way , he would have said, My Lord God, But he did not did he, He added the Word “AND” . Which means two different things. Thomas believed as all Jew did that there was only ONE God, he just came to realize that,  that the ONE God was Indeed “IN” Jesus, and was Present with Jesus.  

So he said  My Lord (Jesus) “AND” my God , both were present “IN” the Body of Jesus. God the Father spoke directly through the Mouth of Jesus and Said < destory this temple and in three days I (God) shall raise it up. Jammin that was not Jesus speaking, but God the father speaking through his very Mouth first Person.

God can live in his creation by his Spirit and that Spirit was also “IN” Jesus, so God was Present with Him by being “IN” him, and Thomas finally came to understand that , Jesus had told him and the other diciples that many many times the Father was “IN” HIm. But he never said He was the Father that was “IN” him, now did He, Think about it boy.

peace and love to you and yours……………………………………gene

[kerwin]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 16 2013,20:28)

Jammin………..If Thomas meant Jesus was the Lord God himself, he would have said it that way , he would have said, My Lord God, But he did not did he, He added the Word “AND” . Which means two different things. Thomas believed as all Jew did that there was only ONE God, he just came to realize that,  that the ONE God was Indeed “IN” Jesus, and was Present with Jesus.   So he said  My Lord (Jesus) “AND” my God , both were present “IN” the Body of Jesus. God the Father spoke directly through the Mouth of Jesus and Said < destory this temple and in three days I (God) shall raise it up. that Jammin that was not Jesus speaking, but God the father speaking through his very Mouth first Person. God can live in his creation by his Spirit and that Spirit was also “IN” Jesus, so God was Present with Him by being “IN” him, and Thomas finally came to understand that , Jesus had told him and the other diciples that many many times the Father was “IN” HIm. But he never said He was the Father that was “IN” him, now did He, Think about it boy. peace and love to you and yours……………………………………gene

Gene,

What you say is true but I doubt that is what Thomas uttered the statement of believe about. Thomas became convinced that the man in front of him was both Jesus and was alive and glorified God response.

A man goes to a morgue to see his dead wife. The pathologist tells him “she is not here as she is not dead”. He answers and says “My Lord and my God”.

He is not calling anyone anything though he may be expressing faith in both Jesus and God.

[Ed J]

Hi Kerwin and Gene,

You guys are both right of course, but
you cannot convince Jammin or Mike of this.

Your brother    
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Quote (Ed J @ May 17 2013,02:04)

Hi Kerwin and Gene, You guys are both right of course, but you cannot convince Jammin or Mike of this. Your brother     in Christ, Jesus. Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed,

What is this?

[GeneBalthrop]

ED J………Missed you, where have you been brother?

Peace and love to you and yours………………………gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ May 16 2013,01:14)

mike, you dot know greek. make your own bible. NIV says nature GOD and there is nothing wrong with because that is the nature of the son.

Yes, there is something wrong with the NIV translation, jammin. The word “theos” in Phil 2:6a is GENITIVE. That means the word actually means “OF God” in English.

However you decide to translate those words, you MUST include “OF God” – not just “God”.

And I agree 100% that Jesus was existing in the form OF God before being made in the likeness of a human being.

And the “God”, in whose form Jesus was existing, is the same PERSON that is described all the times Jesus is called the Son of “God”.

You have already agreed that when Jesus is called the Son of “God”, the “God” part refers to Jesus' Father and God, Jehovah. Maybe someday you'll also realize that the word “God” also refers to that same person in Phil 2:6.

I can only lead you TO the water, jammin. I can't force you to drink it.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ May 16 2013,14:04)

Hi Kerwin and Gene, You guys are both right of course, but you cannot convince Jammin or Mike of this.

Hi Ed and All,

It seems obvious to me that Thomas said those words TO Jesus.  I understand that to mean Thomas was ADDRESSING Jesus AS “my Lord and my God”.

I have no problem with that understanding, nor is that understanding prohibited by any scripture.

I think Gene's explanation – that Thomas was somehow able to see the being of God Almighty inside of Jesus, and therefore addressed two different persons – is very far-reaching, and unsubstantiated by the words in the text.

I could almost get on board with Kerwin's “exclamation” theory – as if Jesus was saying, OH MY GOD! – except I don't know of the phrase, OH MY LORD AND MY GOD!

“OMG!” is probably the most used combination of letters among those who text.  But I haven't ever seen “OMLAMG!” as an exclamation.

How about you?  Have you ever heard someone exclaim, Oh my Lord AND my God! ?

So while it doesn't bother me too much that people like you, Gene, and Kerwin must exhaustingly explain away those words, I will continue to understand them as Thomas ADDRESSING Jesus as his Lord and his God.

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 17 2013,08:53)

Quote (jammin @ May 16 2013,01:14) mike, you dot know greek. make your own bible. NIV says nature GOD and there is nothing wrong with because that is the nature of the son. Yes, there is something wrong with the NIV translation, jammin.  The word “theos” in Phil 2:6a is GENITIVE.  That means the word actually means “OF God” in English. However you decide to translate those words, you MUST include “OF God” – not just “God”. And I agree 100% that Jesus was existing in the form OF God before being made in the likeness of a human being. And the “God”, in whose form Jesus was existing, is the same PERSON that is described all the times Jesus is called the Son of “God”. You have already agreed that when Jesus is called the Son of “God”, the “God” part refers to Jesus' Father and God, Jehovah.  Maybe someday you'll also realize that the word “God” also refers to that same person in Phil 2:6. I can only lead you TO the water, jammin.  I can't force you to drink it.

are you existing in the form of man?

if not, what is your form?

[jammin]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 17 2013,01:28)

Jammin………..If Thomas meant Jesus was the Lord God himself, he would have said it that way , he would have said, My Lord God, But he did not did he, He added the Word “AND” . Which means two different things. Thomas believed as all Jew did that there was only ONE God, he just came to realize that,  that the ONE God was Indeed “IN” Jesus, and was Present with Jesus.   So he said  My Lord (Jesus) “AND” my God , both were present “IN” the Body of Jesus. God the Father spoke directly through the Mouth of Jesus and Said < destory this temple and in three days I (God) shall raise it up. Jammin that was not Jesus speaking, but God the father speaking through his very Mouth first Person. God can live in his creation by his Spirit and that Spirit was also “IN” Jesus, so God was Present with Him by being “IN” him, and Thomas finally came to understand that , Jesus had told him and the other diciples that many many times the Father was “IN” HIm. But he never said He was the Father that was “IN” him, now did He, Think about it boy. peace and love to you and yours……………………………………gene

do you know the meaning of thomas said to jesus?
do you understand that?

i think you should go back to school.
that is so simple to understand

thomas said to jesus, MYLORD AND MY GOD.

if you want me to believe your opinion then read it in john 20.28, you can have many versions as you want.
just give me one. ill wait

[jammin]

Quote (kerwin @ May 16 2013,20:45)

Quote (jammin @ May 16 2013,13:10) Quote (kerwin @ May 16 2013,10:45) Quote (jammin @ May 16 2013,04:40) gene, do you believe thomas said to jesus, MY LORD AND MY GOD? yes or no? Jammin, Thomas did indeed respond to Jesus' instructions to believe God resurrected him by saying “my Lord and my God”.  You on the other hand choose to believe he was calling Jesus “my Lord and my God” even though it is not written. thomas said that to jesus. do not put your own words to thomas'mouth. make your own bible Jammin, The evil one is stealing the words ” answered and” from your mind.  “answered” tells us Thomas is addressing Jesus' words with his response. John 20:28 King James Version (KJV) 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. What does the words “and Mike answered Jammin, and said my Lord and my God”  mean if Jammin asked him who Jehovah is?

your example is not the same as in john 20.28

i dont think you understand the verse.
you must go back to school.

thomas said to jesus, MY LORD AND MY GOD.

that is so simple to understand. do not add your awful opinion to thomas' mouth. if you want me to believe your opinion then you must show me a version in john 20.28. ill give you 1m yrs to find one.

[kerwin]

Jamin,

You keep saying:

Quote

thomas said to jesus, MY LORD AND MY GOD.

even though you know that is not what Scripture says. Why do you think taking away from Scripture is justified.

Scripture states Thomas responded to Jesus, words and said “my Lord and my God”.

Moses responded to the miracle of the division of the Red Sea and said “my Lord and my God”.

[jammin]

did moses tell to the read sea MY LORD AND GOD?

give me the verse boy

[kerwin]

Quote (jammin @ May 17 2013,07:24)

did moses tell to the read sea MY LORD AND GOD? give me the verse boy

Jammin,

Thomas was replying to the miraculous resurrection of Jesus Anointed and in my example Moses was replying to the miraculous dividing of the Red Sea.

[jammin]

Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,12:30)

Quote (jammin @ May 17 2013,07:24) did moses tell to the read sea MY LORD AND GOD? give me the verse boy Jammin, Thomas was replying to the miraculous resurrection of Jesus Anointed ant in my example Moses was replying to the miraculous dividing of the Red Sea.

im asking you

did moses tell to the red sea my LORD and MY GOD?

what verse is that?

[Ed J]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 17 2013,08:33)

ED J………Missed you, where have you been brother? Peace and love to you and yours………………………gene

Hi Gene,

I have been around; just posting
“on this Forum” less frequently.
Got to stay on T8's good side.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 17 2013,09:13)

Quote (Ed J @ May 16 2013,14:04) Hi Kerwin and Gene, You guys are both right of course, but you cannot convince Jammin or Mike of this. Hi Ed and All, It seems obvious to me that Thomas said those words TO Jesus.  I understand that to mean Thomas was ADDRESSING Jesus AS “my Lord and my God”. I have no problem with that understanding, nor is that understanding prohibited by any scripture. I think Gene's explanation – that Thomas was somehow able to see the being of God Almighty inside of Jesus, and therefore addressed two different persons – is very far-reaching, and unsubstantiated by the words in the text. I could almost get on board with Kerwin's “exclamation” theory – as if Jesus was saying, OH MY GOD! – except I don't know of the phrase, OH MY LORD AND MY GOD! “OMG!” is probably the most used combination of letters among those who text.  But I haven't ever seen “OMLAMG!” as an exclamation. How about you?  Have you ever heard someone exclaim, Oh my Lord AND my God! ? So while it doesn't bother me too much that people like you, Gene, and Kerwin must exhaustingly explain away those words, I will continue to understand them as Thomas ADDRESSING Jesus as his Lord and his God.

Hi Mike,

Now if you can combine those two ideas together you will have it.
Thomas was surprised to see Jesus alive  -and-
he was calling YHVH his God.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Quote (jammin @ May 17 2013,10:39)

Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,12:30) Quote (jammin @ May 17 2013,07:24) did moses tell to the read sea MY LORD AND GOD? give me the verse boy Jammin, Thomas was replying to the miraculous resurrection of Jesus Anointed ant in my example Moses was replying to the miraculous dividing of the Red Sea. im asking you did moses tell to the red sea my LORD and MY GOD? what verse is that?

Jammin,

I already answered that point, which is off topic, by revealing why I used the example I did.  Do you now understand what it means to reply and say the words “My Lord and my God”?

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 17 2013,04:13)

Quote (Ed J @ May 16 2013,14:04) Hi Kerwin and Gene, You guys are both right of course, but you cannot convince Jammin or Mike of this. Hi Ed and All, It seems obvious to me that Thomas said those words TO Jesus.  I understand that to mean Thomas was ADDRESSING Jesus AS “my Lord and my God”. I have no problem with that understanding, nor is that understanding prohibited by any scripture. I think Gene's explanation – that Thomas was somehow able to see the being of God Almighty inside of Jesus, and therefore addressed two different persons – is very far-reaching, and unsubstantiated by the words in the text. I could almost get on board with Kerwin's “exclamation” theory – as if Jesus was saying, OH MY GOD! – except I don't know of the phrase, OH MY LORD AND MY GOD! “OMG!” is probably the most used combination of letters among those who text.  But I haven't ever seen “OMLAMG!” as an exclamation. How about you?  Have you ever heard someone exclaim, Oh my Lord AND my God! ? So while it doesn't bother me too much that people like you, Gene, and Kerwin must exhaustingly explain away those words, I will continue to understand them as Thomas ADDRESSING Jesus as his Lord and his God.

Mike,

Koine Greek is weird and Thomas may possibly have been saying the equivalent to O my God and O my Lord as he had definite articles in there that translators did not translate. He basically said “the Lord of me and the God of me” from what I understand. Being Trinitarians the translators may have been led by their bias. This is a rough hypothesis I have not tested nor do I think it is very important.

My point is the bottom line is that Thomas is replying to Jesus words and Jesus' state of being and not calling Jesus anything. Peter tells Jesus who he is with the words “you are”. Thomas does not use those word even though Jammin is convinced he does.

[Ed J]

Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,16:57)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 17 2013,04:13) Quote (Ed J @ May 16 2013,14:04) Hi Kerwin and Gene, You guys are both right of course, but you cannot convince Jammin or Mike of this. Hi Ed and All, It seems obvious to me that Thomas said those words TO Jesus.  I understand that to mean Thomas was ADDRESSING Jesus AS “my Lord and my God”. I have no problem with that understanding, nor is that understanding prohibited by any scripture. I think Gene's explanation – that Thomas was somehow able to see the being of God Almighty inside of Jesus, and therefore addressed two different persons – is very far-reaching, and unsubstantiated by the words in the text. I could almost get on board with Kerwin's “exclamation” theory – as if Jesus was saying, OH MY GOD! – except I don't know of the phrase, OH MY LORD AND MY GOD! “OMG!” is probably the most used combination of letters among those who text.  But I haven't ever seen “OMLAMG!” as an exclamation. How about you?  Have you ever heard someone exclaim, Oh my Lord AND my God! ? So while it doesn't bother me too much that people like you, Gene, and Kerwin must exhaustingly explain away those words, I will continue to understand them as Thomas ADDRESSING Jesus as his Lord and his God. Mike, Koine Greek is weird and Thomas may possibly have been saying the equivalent to  O my God and O my Lord as he had definite articles in there that translators did not translate.   He basically said “the Lord of me and the God of me” from what I understand.  Being Trinitarians the translators may have been led by their bias. This is a rough hypothesis I have not tested nor do I think it is very important. My point is the bottom line is that Thomas is replying to Jesus words and Jesus' state of being and not calling Jesus anything.  Peter tells Jesus who he is with the words “you are”.  Thomas does not use those word even though Jammin is convinced he does.

Hi Everyone,

Thomas recognized YHVH in Jesus! (John 20:28)
BECAUSE OF THE WORKS; is this not at all clear to you guys?

John 14:5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest;
and how can we know the way? (Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and
put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. John 20:25)

John 10:38: But if I do, though ye believe not me,
believe the works: that ye may know,
and believe, that  the Father is in me, and I in him.

THOMAS THEREFORE BELIEVED THE WORKS! (John 20:29)
John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me,
thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

2Cor.5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ,
reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing
their trespasses unto them(because of Christ); and hath
committed unto us (HolySpirit)”The Word” of reconciliation.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[jammin]

Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,16:35)

Quote (jammin @ May 17 2013,10:39) Quote (kerwin @ May 17 2013,12:30) Quote (jammin @ May 17 2013,07:24) did moses tell to the read sea MY LORD AND GOD? give me the verse boy Jammin, Thomas was replying to the miraculous resurrection of Jesus Anointed ant in my example Moses was replying to the miraculous dividing of the Red Sea. im asking you did moses tell to the red sea my LORD and MY GOD? what verse is that? Jammin, I already answered that point, which is off topic, by revealing why I used the example I did.  Do you now understand what it means to reply and say the words “My Lord and my God”?

this is the 4th time ill ask you

where can you read that moses told to the red sea MY LORD AND MY GOD?

pls give me version

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