- This topic has 272 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 8 months ago by
.
- Posts
The bible clearly defines soul (nepesh) and spirit (ruwach) neither represent a part of man that exists beyond death. Actually the truth in the bible says the EXACT OPPOSITE.
Genesis 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Only a serpent would speak the lie that man does not die. There seems to be many serpents on this forum it is astounding!
DEATH does not pertain to meaning solely a body dying and decaying, it represents the opposite of LIFE (chay/living alive). Man does not go on living without a body, if man dies they are no longer alive PERIOD.
All living creatures that God made are DEFINED as NEPESH/Souls, they were all made as we are told from scripture from the dust of the earth, and they all return to the dust. Humans are no exception. Only Jesus died but did not return to the dust.
Genesis 1: 24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living (chay) creature (nephesh) after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
God made a massive variety of different kinds of souls/creatures/living beings, each one is unique in some way, each kind is different from other kinds, but still can also be similar in some ways.
Genesis 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life (NEPESH), I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
Genesis 2: 7 And the LORD God formed man of the DUST of the GROUND, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life (chay); and man became a living (chay) soul (nepesh).
Adam like the whales and the birds became a living (chay/alive) soul (nephesh/creature/living being)
Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Eccl 3: 19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. 20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. 21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? 22 Wherefore I perceive that there is nothing better, than that a man should rejoice in his own works; for that is his portion: for who shall bring him to see what shall be after him?
Solomon makes it clear that our fate is the same as the animals, he says EXACTLY what God told Adam and Eve in the Garden, that if they ate of the tree they would die, for God said dust you are and dust you shall return. The human is a nephesh, a living soul, just like a bird, or a fish, or a lion, is a living soul, all of God’s creatures were made of the dust of the earth. Solomon says that he perceives there is nothing better than a man rejoicing over his work, for when he dies he shall not see it anymore. As Solomon’s father David tells us that the SOUL DIES, ALL of God’s souls that He created on earth die, and for man who is capable of knowing God, in death there is no remembrance of God, in the grave there is no praising God.
Psalms 6: 4 Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies’ sake. 5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
As the living being (nepesh) the whale dies, so too does the living being (nephesh) the human dies. ALL NEPESH of God’s creation on earth are MADE of the dust of the earth, all DIE and ALL DECAY and return to the dust of the earth, except for one human who died, but his body was not allowed to see decay and become dust.
So what about the word spirit as it relates to man, how is the spirit of man defined in scripture?
Genesis 6: 17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to DESTROY ALL flesh, wherein is the BREATH of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall DIE.
BREATH transliterated word RUWACH, wind, breath, mind, spirit
ALL FLESH from animals to humans where there is the BREATH (spirit) of life shall DIE, be DESTROYED.
God’s Spirit is eternal, animals and humans are created given the spirit of life, and that spirit of life can be TAKEN AWAY, where the animals and humans can no longer exist, they DIE, they are DESTROYED.
Man’s spirit does not contain immortality after death. We know that unlike animals man’s spirit/RUWACH BREATH will one day be restored with a new body, becoming a living nepesh again, some are restored given eternal life while others are restored to face judgment. God will raise up the dead, that equates exactly to God bringing man back to a spirit of life from that spirit being DEAD.
God is Spirit and He is LIFE, and He gives us our BREATH and He can and does take it away, He takes away our BREATH our spirit.
Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
We are flesh and we have life when God’s Spirit, His breath, is upon us, but it will not always be upon us because our days are numbered.
Genesis 7: 15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
As opposed to all the flesh that died in the flood, those animals, those living souls that went into the ark did so having the breath/spirit of life.
Genesis 41: 8 And it came to pass in the morning that his spirit was troubled; and he sent and called for all the magicians of Egypt, and all the wise men thereof: and Pharaoh told them his dream; but there was none that could interpret them unto Pharaoh.
The pharaoh’s spirit (breath of life) was troubled. The ability of pharaoh to be troubled is according to the type of breath of life God gave humans, the breath He gave them is one that can feel and think, and worry, all abilities of the human brain of which was formed of the dust of the earth.
Proverbs 11: 13 A talebearer revealeth secrets: but he that is of a faithful spirit concealeth the matter
Once again the word ruwach is used to describe the capability of a human, the unique breath that God gave man where he is capable of being faithful verses disloyal.
Proverbs 15: 13 A merry heart maketh a cheerful countenance: but by sorrow of the heart the spirit is broken.
The breath of God that He gave to each nephesh is different, they all have life, but the life that each one lives is different. Because man was given a higher functioning brain he is set a part from the other nepesh. Our breath of life from God is different from the breath of life that He gave to animals. The breath of life (spirit) that God gave us made us capable of feeling cheerful, or having sorrow.
Psalms 104: 29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust. 30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.
When you DIE your breath/spirit is taken away, you return to the dust. If you have not the breath of God (the spirit of life) that God gave you through His Spirit, you are DEAD.
Genesis 2: 22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
Your spirit DIES
Psalms 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
When you die your spirit is gone, there is no breath in you, you RETURN to the earth, and you no more have any thoughts.
Ecc 8: 8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.
Ecc 12: 7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. 8 Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.
God gave the breath/spirit of life, He takes it away, you die and return to the earth.
Hi Jodi,
Jb 34.14
…If He should gather to Himself
HIS SPIRIT AND HIS BREATH
all flesh would perish together.
Hi All
Good post Jodi.
The truth is, the dead are now dead because they have all been sinners and “the wages of sin is death”(Romans 6:26). That is why humans die. They are sinful in body, in soul, and in spirit.
We, as human beings, are composed of three living parts. We are body. We are soul. And we are spirit. Paul put it this way:
“The very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus.”1 Thessalonians 5:23
God bless
Hi All
Good post Jodi.
The truth is, the dead are now dead because they have all been sinners and “the wages of sin is death”(Romans 6:26). That is why humans die. They are sinful in body, in soul, and in spirit.
We, as human beings, are composed of three living parts. We are body. We are soul. And we are spirit. Paul put it this way:
“The very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus.”1 Thessalonians 5:23
the soul that sins, it shall die”(Ezekiel 18:4, 20).
2 Corinthians 7:1.“Dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and SPIRIT.”
Yes Nick body ,soul and spirit sins.
God bless
To All,
Read what the scriptures say and how words are used. Do not read scripture and apply traditional definitions to certain words. By traditional definitions I would be referring to the “early church fathers” such as Origen who was a follower of Plato and Greek Philosophy.
Job 34: 14 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his Spirit and his breath;
Spirit transliterated word RUWACH, wind, breath, mind, spirit
Breath transliterated word N@shamah breath, spirit
Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
Spirit Ruwach wind, breath, mind, spirit
Breath N@shamah breath, spirit
Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Breath N@shamah breath, spirit
God made man of the dust of the ground, He created man through His wisdom, which is a power of God’s Spirit, and then God gave this soul that He had formed life. God’s Spirit is life, and it’s power also is able to give life, and such is referred to as God giving His breath. Adam became alive, the soul that had been formed of the dust of the ground was given the breath of life, or one could say was given the spirit of life. When the spirit/breath of life is removed that is when we DIE.
Genesis 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
Breath Ruwach
We see in Genesis both the word N@shamah and Ruwach or used to say BREATH of LIFE.
God’s Spirit gives us life, His breath gives us life. In us is God’s breath of life, we live through the workings of His Spirit. God removes His Spirit, His breath of life and we die.
Psalms 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
breath ruwach
Ecc 8: 8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death:
Spirit ruwach
Our BREATH or SPIRIT equate to us being living beings, ALIVE. When that spirit is removed we are no longer ALIVE.
The words N@shamah and Ruwach have absolutely nothing to do with a part of us that lives in the body that can exists beyond death. These words are used to represent our flesh being alive, living. The spirit of man represents the living man, the flesh of man that is alive through the breath of life. God gave the human soul that was formed of the dust of the ground LIFE, it is referred to as the spirit of life/the breath of life.
Isaiah 42: 5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
Breath N@shamah
Spirit ruwach
People walk, they are alive through God’s breath, that is God giving us the spirit of life. When we die God takes away that breath and we know longer have the spirit of life to walk therein, we are DEAD.
Job 27: 3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
Breath N@shamah
Spirit ruwach
Soul represents a created creature not something a created creature has.
The Soul that is living has the breath of life, it has the spirit of life, which comes from God’s breath of life, through God’s Spirit that is life and gives us life.
Deut 30: 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
Nowhere in scripture are we told that in death your spirit or soul goes to a place of conscious waiting to then receive a body again and a reward or a punishment.
Neither are we ever told that when you die your soul or spirit goes someplace to be rewarded or punished.
Such is completely unbiblical and speaks against the word of God and the definitions to what the soul and spirit represent. We are made of the dust and we return to the dust. All that we are is made up from the elements of the earth, we are souls made from the elements of the earth and we have LIFE when God gives us His breath.
Hi Jodi,
Nonsense. You dogmas insult God
No the Spirit of God is not His breath.
All men and animals are not living by His Spirit.
Those men reborn into His Son do have that privilege.
Soul represents a created creature not something a created creature has.
When we say correctly, ‘my soul’, we are basically talking about something we have.
Although I agree that the soul is you. I think the Spirit is what gives the soul life, and the body contains the soul. But without the soul the body is dead and without the Spirit that God gives, the soul is dead. Thus, by extension, the body without the spirit is dead.
Scripture tells us that we can lose our soul or that God will save our soul. That is to basically lose yourself.
If the soul is me, then I can lose the Spirit of God and thus lose my life, and I could get a new body and still be me, but a better version of me because I wouldn’t have the hindrance of the old nature.
Therefore, putting aside all filthiness and all that remains of wickedness, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls.
If we receive new bodies, then that proves that we are not so much the body, but the soul. Our identity is the soul and there is a distinction with soul and body.
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Good post Jodi!
Jodi has told you all right. When you are you all going to come out of Babylon and listen to Jodi?
peace and love to you and yours……………………… Ed J
That was my Gene Balthrop imitation.
Truth be told, I did not even read her post
as it was W-A-Y T-O L-O-N-G to make any pointDisappointing that in the responses people are not addressing the scriptures I posted and talking about the word of God that has been given.
t8, you said, “Although I agree that the soul is you. I think the Spirit is what gives the soul life, and the body contains the soul. But without the soul the body is dead and without the Spirit that God gives, the soul is dead. Thus, by extension, the body without the spirit is dead.”
Yes God’s Spirit gives a soul life, whether it be the whale, the bird, or the human.
The body does not contain the soul t8, READ the passages in Genesis. Each KIND of creature/SOUL/living being, that God created from the dust of the earth has a different kind of flesh, a different kind of body. The reason why the creature (soul) is alive is because God gives it life. The power and wisdom of God’s Spirit has created different souls, and it gives those souls life.
You are ignoring scripture t8 where it tells you directly what a soul is, it is a creation of God that God gives life to, and God made many varieties of souls, whether it be a frog, a snake, a lion, an elephant, or a human.
The difference from all other creatures (souls) God had made is that He gave humans the ability to learn from Him, to become like Him in character, which is why we are said to have been made in His image. We are a very special soul. Humans can act just like animals, which is why scripture refers to man when he is being sinful to being a viper, or a dog returning to his own vomit. Vipers and dogs do not have the mental capacity to KNOW God, to learn from God, to behave according to an image of God, with righteous behavior, acquiring the wisdom of God and living through that wisdom. Our Almighty Creator gave us that ability as opposed to other souls.
Yes t8 often times people refer to the soul according to Greek mythology/philosophy just like the” early church father” Origen, who loved Plato and helped to create a FALSE religion, which you seem to follow.
When a human says “my soul”, according to biblical definition that should represent the unique flesh that God created for a human, as opposed to a frog, or a snake. They should say, thank you God for my unique soul that has been given the ability to know you, learn from you, love you, obtain your wisdom. When a human says “my soul” they should be speaking of their unique design God created them with recognizing how they are set apart from all other souls.
My soul, as in my life able to live according to God in peace, love, with joy, which is amazing how God can create a soul and have that soul develop into an image of Him.
Hi Jodi,
You missed the message of Jesus Christ about the nature of man.
He is a vessel designed to house the Holy Spirit, a tent or a house. 2tim 2.20f
Sadly since Eden the minions of the god of this earth have occupied this vessel and used it for sin.
Jesus came to cleanse men, to get rid of the vipers from these human containers and to fill them with the Holy Spirit.
Come out of useless intellectualism and let God bless you.
Nick…..Jodi is right, our souls can die and decay and parish, that is exactly what happens when we die, the breath of life/the sustaning spirit of God leaves us and our dead soul/body, returns back to the ground from which it came, just as scripture says.
We no longer exist as a living soul, untill God resurect us and reforms our bodies and breathes his breath of life back into us and then we become a living soul again. It is crucial that we attain unto the resurection, if we are to “ever” become a living SOUL again.
Listen to what Jodi said Nick and T8, she is right, I also see it that way. When GOD SAID to ADAM, you shall return back into the dust FROM which you were taken, he truly meant ever word he said.
The concept that we are still alive after we die is pure pagan Platoian, Greek conjecture, introduced into the early church by the GNOSTIC’S. IF JESUS had not been raised from the grave by the spirit of God, he would still be dead to this very day. God did not allow his SOUL/BODY to see crouption, but simply added back into it the breath of life and Jesus became a living SOUL, AGAIN.
Peace and love to you and yours. …………gene
Hi Nick,
YOU:But the Spirit of God creates and His breath gives life
My own ideas? I have been saying exactly what I just quoted from you.
Why don’t you address the scriptures that I gave??
Job 34: 14 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his Spirit and his breath;
Spirit transliterated word RUWACH, wind, breath, mind, spirit
Breath transliterated word N@shamah breath, spirit
Job 33:4 The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.
Spirit Ruwach wind, breath, mind, spirit
Breath N@shamah breath, spirit
Genesis 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
BREATH Ruwach
Nick, God’s breath gives life, God’s Spirit gives life.
You are denying from the scripture Nick is that Ruwach is expressed as God’s breath giving life, and it is expressed as God’s Spirit giving life.
God’s Spirit gives wisdom, and then man is able to take that wisdom and can use it for his own gain in sinful ways. We are told directly in scripture that God gave man the wisdom to build, to melt materials and make materials. God gave us that wisdom, if he didn’t we would be living like the apes. Some men build and make things that are pleasing to God with the wisdom He gave, as God has given additional measures of His Spirit upon certain men, in away where those men take God’s wisdom and then also follow God’s ways with it. Some men took that wisdom and made idols with it and they were not pleasing to God but found to be sinful.
God’s Spirit gives us LIFE and then man lives his life according to his carnal nature like an ignorant unruly beast, God can give men wisdom that separates him from the animals, He gave us the brain capabilities to be able to gain knowledge. God also gives His Spirit at a measure that allows man to learn and grow in God’s ways.
There are measures that God gives to man of His Spirit, the prophets were given God’s word to speak, but some of them betrayed God and then spoke lies. Just because they received a measure of God’s Spirit that did not equate to them being righteous.
The measure of the Spirit that gives faith in God that produces the wisdom to repent of your sins, that is the measure that is counted as righteousness and holds the key to eternal life, when you realize you need God and you desire to follow God, God must call you to that through the work of His Spirit. God brought Christ in so that our sins could be forgiven, and to show that a man does in fact need a full measure of God’s Spirit working in Him to be able to live without sin. In order for Jesus to be the man to die for our sins and fulfill all righteousness he had to be baptized and God’s Spirit had to descend upon him in full measure, he was then perfected through such measures. God brought Christ in for the purpose of building our faith in God so that if we believe that God was able to keep Christ from sin and thus make him not deserving of death, we can believe that He will give life to our mortal bodies and fill us with the full measure of God’s Spirit keeping us from sin, and thus DEATH is destroyed. As Paul tells us this perfecting will occur when Christ returns, where Paul will not be made perfect apart from all those listed in Hebrews 11 but together they will meet Christ and they will see him as he is because they will be as he is.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
