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Hi Sscott,
“sn't Prov 30 asking a retorical question?1The words of Agur the son of Jakeh, even the prophecy: the man spake unto Ithiel, even unto Ithiel and Ucal,
2Surely I am more brutish than any man, and have not the understanding of a man.
3I neither learned wisdom, nor have the knowledge of the holy.
4Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
Proverbs has to be asking if there is a man who has done this and the answer would be “no”.
It says “what is his name”? If this was talking about the Father he would have know His name…YHWH
Some refers to God, some to His Son hundreds of years before the Son was seen by men on earth. Rhetorical ? it is still truth. It is written
Nick, I stand corrected on saying I didn't think there was mention of the Son of God in the Old Testament. But in truth, those two mentions of the Son of God were prophetic.
Proverbs 30 is interesting Pro 30:5 Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Porperly interpreted it would read Pro 30:5 The very Word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Obviously talking about Jesus.
But here's a thought for you. We who are chosen pre-existed. God fore-knew us. The Word of God was just that, the Word of God before He was conceived. He was God and was with God. Why was He called the Word of God? Because what God speaks, God is. Yashua is the Promise of God and the fulfillment of that promise. The message and the Messenger. The Word made flesh and born into this world as the Son of God.
When I pre-existed, I was not my father's son, but I still existed. Not in the flesh of course, but I existed. When I was conceived I became my father's son. No different from what happened to Yashua really, except He was God, had an immaculate conception and was without sin.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 17 2006,02:37) Hi 94,
Is this written?
Surely sin conceives in us as James said.Jas 1
” 14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.15Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.”
We cannot become like to the Son of God except by rebirth from above and feeding on and obeying the Word.
Nick:The first Adam is like God in that he is a person with a mind a free will and emotions, but his spirit is not like the Son of God if he is practicing sin. God is not the Father of his spirit.
Your statement, “We cannot become like to the Son of God except by rebirth from above and feeding on and obeying the Word”. I totally agree with this statement.
Quote (sscott @ Nov. 15 2006,22:10) It seems like Jesus is only called the Son in relation to Him being born of Mary and durring his time on earth. Is there anytime He is called the Son before his birth with Mary?
Hi sscott:The concept of God covceiving His Son was with Him in beginning and the Spirit that He would form in His Son through obedience to his Word was with him in the beginning, but as 1 Peter 1:20 states: “Who was verily foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you”.
There were many scriptures pertaining to his coming in the Old Testament, but my understanding is that he could not be called the Son before he was born to Mary.
Quote (942767 @ Nov. 17 2006,04:08) Quote (sscott @ Nov. 15 2006,22:10) It seems like Jesus is only called the Son in relation to Him being born of Mary and durring his time on earth. Is there anytime He is called the Son before his birth with Mary?
Hi sscott:The concept of God covceiving His Son was with Him in beginning and the Spirit that He would form in His Son through obedience to his Word was with him in the beginning, but as 1 Peter 1:20 states: “Who was verily foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you”.
There were many scriptures pertaining to his coming in the Old Testament, but my understanding is that he could not be called the Son before he was born to Mary.
Hi 94,
God is Spirit.
His Son is begotten in His image.
God's Spirit was not with Him
any more than we are with our fingers.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 17 2006,04:35) Quote (942767 @ Nov. 17 2006,04:08) Quote (sscott @ Nov. 15 2006,22:10) It seems like Jesus is only called the Son in relation to Him being born of Mary and durring his time on earth. Is there anytime He is called the Son before his birth with Mary?
Hi sscott:The concept of God covceiving His Son was with Him in beginning and the Spirit that He would form in His Son through obedience to his Word was with him in the beginning, but as 1 Peter 1:20 states: “Who was verily foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you”.
There were many scriptures pertaining to his coming in the Old Testament, but my understanding is that he could not be called the Son before he was born to Mary.
Hi 94,
God is Spirit.
His Son is begotten in His image.
God's Spirit was not with Him
any more than we are with our fingers.
“In the beginnning was the Word, and THE WORD WAS WITH GOD, and the word was God. (John 1:1)Hi 94,
Indeed the Word was with God, a being in his own right with glory of his own with the Father.
Then God sent him
and filled Christ with His own Spirit.
Unity.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 17 2006,04:35) Hi 94,
God is Spirit.
His Son is begotten in His image.
God's Spirit was not with Him
any more than we are with our fingers.
God is Spirit, yes, but the Holy Spirit is different, an identity in Himself, as is Jesus.Otherwise it makes no sense that the Father sent the Holy Spirit. Why wouldn't Scripture just say that the Father came? How can the One sent also be the sender?
Quote Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 17 2006,04:35)
Hi 94,
God is Spirit.
His Son is begotten in His image.
God's Spirit was not with Him
any more than we are with our fingers.God is Spirit, yes, but the Holy Spirit is different, an identity in Himself, as is Jesus.
Otherwise it makes no sense that the Father sent the Holy Spirit. Why wouldn't Scripture just say that the Father came? How can the One sent also be the sender?
Good Point Oxy!
Hey Nick why dont you answer his question?
And yet they also believe that the Spirit Of Christ that is in us is Jesus Spirit! But Again Jesus also said he would send the Comfortor. So did he send himself?
But of course we have the answer which they do not hear!
We can be one in spirit. We can be one with God in spirit. We can be one with Christ in spirit.
Romans 8:16
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:Romans 1:9
For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;So it is not hard to see how we are all one. To change this truth to the Trinity is wrong.
1 Corinthians 2:11
For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.God is spirit. God is not a man that he should lie. No man has seen God. Only the son can declare him.
Quote (942767 @ Nov. 17 2006,04:08) Quote (sscott @ Nov. 15 2006,22:10) It seems like Jesus is only called the Son in relation to Him being born of Mary and durring his time on earth. Is there anytime He is called the Son before his birth with Mary?
Hi sscott:The concept of God covceiving His Son was with Him in beginning and the Spirit that He would form in His Son through obedience to his Word was with him in the beginning, but as 1 Peter 1:20 states: “Who was verily foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you”.
There were many scriptures pertaining to his coming in the Old Testament, but my understanding is that he could not be called the Son before he was born to Mary.
Amen 94Hi 94,
You say
“Hi sscott:The concept of God covceiving His Son was with Him in beginning and the Spirit that He would form in His Son through obedience to his Word was with him in the beginning, but as 1 Peter 1:20 states: “Who was verily foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you””
God begat a Son.
Ps 2
“7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. “But God did not form a Spirit in His Son but poured his own Spirit into His Son. The Son was anointed with the eternal Spirit of the eternal God.
Acts `10
38How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 18 2006,08:12) Hi 94,
You say
“Hi sscott:The concept of God covceiving His Son was with Him in beginning and the Spirit that He would form in His Son through obedience to his Word was with him in the beginning, but as 1 Peter 1:20 states: “Who was verily foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you””
God begat a Son.
Ps 2
“7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. “But God did not form a Spirit in His Son but poured his own Spirit into His Son. The Son was anointed with the eternal Spirit of the eternal God.
Acts `10
38How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
Nick, the Son IS the Word. And Scripture gives many accounts in the Old Testament of the Word of God coming to Moses, to Abraham, to David, to Saul etc etc. And then the Word became a Son ie was made flesh, was born. At that point the Word of God became the Son of God.John 1:1 says In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
It doesn't say In the beginning was the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was God
Quote We can be one in spirit. We can be one with God in spirit. We can be one with Christ in spirit. Romans 8:16
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:Romans 1:9
For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;So it is not hard to see how we are all one. To change this truth to the Trinity is wrong.
1 Corinthians 2:11
For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.God is spirit. God is not a man that he should lie. No man has seen God. Only the son can declare him.
t8 And Nick.
Tell me, Did God send himself?
And if he didnt then who is it that is dwelling in you?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 19 2006,07:09) Quote We can be one in spirit. We can be one with God in spirit. We can be one with Christ in spirit. Romans 8:16
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:Romans 1:9
For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;So it is not hard to see how we are all one. To change this truth to the Trinity is wrong.
1 Corinthians 2:11
For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.God is spirit. God is not a man that he should lie. No man has seen God. Only the son can declare him.
t8 And Nick.
Tell me, Did God send himself?
And if he didnt then who is it that is dwelling in you?
Hi W,
Are you being clever with words for any useful reason? Why do you not grasp that the Spirit of Christ is of the Spirit of God so the terms are for practical reasons interchangeable?1Peter tells us the prophets were inspired by the Spirit of Christ as does 1Cor 10 tell us that Spirit was the rock, and yet that is speaking of the Holy Spirit.
If we are filled with the Holy Spirit of God we are united with Christ in that Spirit. The Holy Spirit connects us with both the Father and the Son in that Spirit. Thus THEY come to us. That is eternal unity.
Quote (Oxy @ Nov. 19 2006,06:18) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 18 2006,08:12) Hi 94,
You say
“Hi sscott:The concept of God covceiving His Son was with Him in beginning and the Spirit that He would form in His Son through obedience to his Word was with him in the beginning, but as 1 Peter 1:20 states: “Who was verily foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you””
God begat a Son.
Ps 2
“7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. “But God did not form a Spirit in His Son but poured his own Spirit into His Son. The Son was anointed with the eternal Spirit of the eternal God.
Acts `10
38How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
Nick, the Son IS the Word. And Scripture gives many accounts in the Old Testament of the Word of God coming to Moses, to Abraham, to David, to Saul etc etc. And then the Word became a Son ie was made flesh, was born. At that point the Word of God became the Son of God.John 1:1 says In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
It doesn't say In the beginning was the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was God
Hi Oxy,
Personal interpretation of the bible is discouraged in 1 Peter 1. It is better to let the bible interpret itself by witnessing scriptures confirming a believed truth.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 19 2006,08:56) Quote (Oxy @ Nov. 19 2006,06:18) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 18 2006,08:12) Hi 94,
You say
“Hi sscott:The concept of God covceiving His Son was with Him in beginning and the Spirit that He would form in His Son through obedience to his Word was with him in the beginning, but as 1 Peter 1:20 states: “Who was verily foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you””
God begat a Son.
Ps 2
“7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. “But God did not form a Spirit in His Son but poured his own Spirit into His Son. The Son was anointed with the eternal Spirit of the eternal God.
Acts `10
38How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
Nick, the Son IS the Word. And Scripture gives many accounts in the Old Testament of the Word of God coming to Moses, to Abraham, to David, to Saul etc etc. And then the Word became a Son ie was made flesh, was born. At that point the Word of God became the Son of God.John 1:1 says In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
It doesn't say In the beginning was the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was God
Hi Oxy,
Personal interpretation of the bible is discouraged in 1 Peter 1. It is better to let the bible interpret itself by witnessing scriptures confirming a believed truth.
Good grief Nick, let wisdom prevail. I am not saying anything that is not according to Scripture.Hi Oxy,
You are teaching a new concept of God that is foreign to scripture-trinity. Strange new teachings are to be abhored.Hebrews 13:9
Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. It is good for our hearts to be strengthened by grace, not by ceremonial foods, which are of no value to those who eat them.Hi Oxy,
Ex 4
“14And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Moses, and he said, Is not Aaron the Levite thy brother? I know that he can speak well. And also, behold, he cometh forth to meet thee: and when he seeth thee, he will be glad in his heart.15And thou shalt speak unto him, and put words in his mouth: and I will be with thy mouth, and with his mouth, and will teach you what ye shall do.
16And he shall be thy spokesman unto the people: and he shall be, even he shall be to thee instead of a mouth, and thou shalt be to him instead of God.”
Did God put Jesus, His word, in the mouth of Aaron?
Ex 34
“Exodus 34:1
And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest.”Was Jesus written on stone?
Num 11
“Numbers 11:23
And the LORD said unto Moses, Is the LORD'S hand waxed short? thou shalt see now whether my word shall come to pass unto thee or not.”Can God not speak word that is not Jesus?
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