Smart scientists who believed in God.

[terraricca]

Quote (Stu @ Nov. 28 2011,03:24)

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 27 2011,18:40) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 28 2011,00:56) Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 27 2011,13:44) Quote I don't see christianity as a reasonable belief system.  Virgins don't give birth to humans and humans don't walk again after being successfully executed.  They are not true statements.   How you can base your personal truth on tenets that are not reasonably true is beyond me, but apparently some people can. Stuart stu again you right in what you say,this is why we believers in God call this FAITH ,i do not think their is any other name for it , but why would this be called reasonable understanding to us and not to many others this i think is the right question,? like we have talk about this before , the believe in the begining before the big bang or before creation there was God ; in my opinion are just two different believes with two differente outcome, and it is the outcome that we all consider not the faith of it , this is were i think we split apart , what you say Stu ?? Pierre I can think of other names to call faith, but they are not very complimentary to the faithful. There is no such thing as “before” the big bang. Stuart Stu You know that that is not true ,the cause of the big bang his the thing that comes just before of it , And that is the ? Dark matter pierre How can the word “before” have any meaning in a situation in which time does not exist? If you think you understand this, I promise you don't. I don't exempt myself from that, but I can still see the irrelevance of the idea of “before”. What about dark matter? Stuart

stu

Quote

How can the word “before” have any meaning in a situation in which time does not exist?

right again, you see Stu ,it is just like before creation ,their was not time either ,see God has no time ,but we do ,

and this is why you start your story from the big bang and we believers start it from creation, that simple ,

Quote

I don't exempt myself from that, but I can still see the irrelevance of the idea of “before”.

see here i have to disagree with you ,because BEFORE is what UNITE or DIVIDE s us,
it unites us because we both can only start from it and so we do ,

now ,you find the word BEFORE (in our discussion ) irrelevant this is because this his where you come to your UNKNOWN,
and so can not explain ,and so do find it the most irrelevant ,

a men that all his live on a farm find that the live in the city is also irrelevant to him ,but his farm,cows,chicken,sheeps ect; is very much relevant to him,this is because it is what he wanted to go and live and never needed anything else in this live,

just as you do ;I think,

this is we are separrating in our roads ;

Pierre

[Proclaimer]

Oh nice one Stu.

No time before the Big Bang, so nothing preceded it or caused it.
No possibility of a higher realm being the containment, and no creator to cause it.

Let's see. We have 0 and then 1 happened and then 1 doubled and became 2,4, and so on.

Right, but the hard part is that not even infinity existed before that.
But if you accept infinity before 0, then you can logically explain where 1 came from and why it is growing exponentially because infinity caters for all the numbers, and no expansion of numbers is to big for infinity.

But Stu says there was 0 and somehow 1 appeared. But before 0 there was 0.
OK, now we have some big logical problems.

1 came from zero and the inflation of 1 to higher numbers came from where?
Please show me the math. How does 1 come from zero if only 0 exists.
I know you cannot explain it, so lets just mutually agree that you are living in lala land.

At the moment your belief system is a hard sell.
Perhaps if you gave away some free candy floss with it, you might get a few takers.

[Stu]

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 28 2011,09:46)

Quote How can the word “before” have any meaning in a situation in which time does not exist? If you think you understand this, I promise you don't. I don't exempt myself from that, but I can still see the irrelevance of the idea of “before”. What about dark matter? Stuart stu Quote How can the word “before” have any meaning in a situation in which time does not exist? right again, you see Stu ,it is just like before creation ,their was not time either ,see God has no time ,but we do , and this is why you start your story from the big bang and we believers start it from creation, that simple , Quote I don't exempt myself from that, but I can still see the irrelevance of the idea of “before”. see here i have to disagree with you ,because BEFORE is what UNITE or DIVIDE s us, it unites us because we both can only start from it and so we do , now ,you find the word BEFORE (in our discussion ) irrelevant this is because this his where you come to your UNKNOWN, and so can not explain ,and so do find it the most irrelevant , a men that all his live on a farm find that the live in the city is also irrelevant to him ,but his farm,cows,chicken,sheeps ect; is very much relevant to him,this is because it is what he wanted to go and live and never needed anything else in this live, just as you do ;I think, this is we are separrating in our roads ; Pierre

It is not irrelevant because I am not interested in it or find it inconvenient.

It is irrelevant in the way that it is irrelevant to ask what is North of the North Pole.

Platitudes concerning your celestial conspiracy theory of Imaginary Friends gets us no closer to explaining anything, let along Big Bang cosmology.

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 28 2011,10:27)

Oh nice one Stu.

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No time before the Big Bang, so nothing preceded it or caused it.

Correct.

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No possibility of a higher realm being the containment, and no creator to cause it.

What is a containment? What is a creator? It’s not that there is no possibility, but it is that the probability of such is vanishingly small, if you mean the god of Judeo-christian mythology. I think it would be more likely to be a god of Greco-Roman mythology if there was a deity involved. But as I say, it seems remote in the extreme when considering what we know about the universe.

Quote

Let's see. We have 0 and then 1 happened and then 1 doubled and became 2,4, and so on.

Do we?

Quote

Right, but the hard part is that not even infinity existed before that. But if you accept infinity before 0, then you can logically explain where 1 came from and why it is growing exponentially because infinity caters for all the numbers, and no expansion of numbers is to big for infinity.

Zero and infinity are mathematical concepts invented by humans. They do not exist as physical entities, only as concepts.

Stuart

[terraricca]

stu

Quote

It is not irrelevant because I am not interested in it or find it inconvenient. It is irrelevant in the way that it is irrelevant to ask what is North of the North Pole. Platitudes concerning your celestial conspiracy theory of Imaginary Friends gets us no closer to explaining anything, let along Big Bang cosmology. Stuart

Job 18:3 Why are we regarded as cattle
and considered stupid in your sight?
Job 18:4 You who tear yourself to pieces in your anger,
is the earth to be abandoned for your sake?
Or must the rocks be moved from their place?

Job 18:5 “The lamp of the wicked is snuffed out;
the flame of his fire stops burning.
Job 18:6 The light in his tent becomes dark;
the lamp beside him goes out.
Job 18:7 The vigor of his step is weakened;
his own schemes throw him down.
Job 18:8 His feet thrust him into a net
and he wanders into its mesh.
Job 18:9 A trap seizes him by the heel;
a snare holds him fast.
Job 18:10 A noose is hidden for him on the ground;
a trap lies in his path.
Job 18:11 Terrors startle him on every side
and dog his every step.
Job 18:12 Calamity is hungry for him;
disaster is ready for him when he falls.
Job 18:13 It eats away parts of his skin;
death’s firstborn devours his limbs.
Job 18:14 He is torn from the security of his tent
and marched off to the king of terrors.
Job 18:15 Fire resides in his tent;
burning sulfur is scattered over his dwelling.
Job 18:16 His roots dry up below
and his branches wither above.
Job 18:17 The memory of him perishes from the earth;
he has no name in the land.
Job 18:18 He is driven from light into darkness
and is banished from the world.
Job 18:19 He has no offspring or descendants among his people,
no survivor where once he lived.
Job 18:20 Men of the west are appalled at his fate;
men of the east are seized with horror.
Job 18:21 Surely such is the dwelling of an evil man;
such is the place of one who knows not God.”

is this your platitude ?

to me this is wisdom and understanding.

Pierre

[Proclaimer]

Stu, your are living in a dream world if you think what you are saying is sensical.
You demonstrate blindness aptly as you are unable to see the gaping holes in your belief system.

[Stu]

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 29 2011,05:49)

stu Quote It is not irrelevant because I am not interested in it or find it inconvenient. It is irrelevant in the way that it is irrelevant to ask what is North of the North Pole. Platitudes concerning your celestial conspiracy theory of Imaginary Friends gets us no closer to explaining anything, let along Big Bang cosmology. Stuart Job 18:3 Why are we regarded as cattle and considered stupid in your sight? Job 18:4 You who tear yourself to pieces in your anger, is the earth to be abandoned for your sake? Or must the rocks be moved from their place? Job 18:5 “The lamp of the wicked is snuffed out; the flame of his fire stops burning. Job 18:6 The light in his tent becomes dark; the lamp beside him goes out. Job 18:7 The vigor of his step is weakened; his own schemes throw him down. Job 18:8 His feet thrust him into a net and he wanders into its mesh. Job 18:9 A trap seizes him by the heel; a snare holds him fast. Job 18:10 A noose is hidden for him on the ground; a trap lies in his path. Job 18:11 Terrors startle him on every side and dog his every step. Job 18:12 Calamity is hungry for him; disaster is ready for him when he falls. Job 18:13 It eats away parts of his skin; death’s firstborn devours his limbs. Job 18:14 He is torn from the security of his tent and marched off to the king of terrors. Job 18:15 Fire resides in his tent; burning sulfur is scattered over his dwelling. Job 18:16 His roots dry up below and his branches wither above. Job 18:17 The memory of him perishes from the earth; he has no name in the land. Job 18:18 He is driven from light into darkness and is banished from the world. Job 18:19 He has no offspring or descendants among his people, no survivor where once he lived. Job 18:20 Men of the west are appalled at his fate; men of the east are seized with horror. Job 18:21 Surely such is the dwelling of an evil man; such is the place of one who knows not God.” is this your platitude ? to me this is wisdom and understanding. Pierre

Job 39:9 Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee…?

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 29 2011,08:12)

Stu, your are living in a dream world if you think what you are saying is sensical. You demonstrate blindness aptly as you are unable to see the gaping holes in your belief system.

These are platitudes, terraricca.

Those quotes from Job were different, they were reasons not to be a christian.

Stuart

[theodorej]

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 28 2011,10:27)

Oh nice one Stu. No time before the Big Bang, so nothing preceded it or caused it. No possibility of a higher realm being the containment, and no creator to cause it. Let's see. We have 0 and then 1 happened and then 1 doubled and became 2,4, and so on. Right, but the hard part is that not even infinity existed before that. But if you accept infinity before 0, then you can logically explain where 1 came from and why it is growing exponentially because infinity caters for all the numbers, and no expansion of numbers is to big for infinity. But Stu says there was 0 and somehow 1 appeared. But before 0 there was 0. OK, now we have some big logical problems. 1 came from zero and the inflation of 1 to higher numbers came from where? Please show me the math. How does 1 come from zero if only 0 exists. I know you cannot explain it, so lets just mutually agree that you are living in lala land. At the moment your belief system is a hard sell. Perhaps if you gave away some free candy floss with it, you might get a few takers.

Greetings T8 …. If you embrace Stu' premise of 0 & 1 you have the basis of binary mathmatics which is the platform for computer programing…. This kind of wisdom could only have been imparted by a being that exists and is…. When you examine scientific theory and those that espouse it they almost all agree on one principle and that is cause and effect… Science recognizes the big bang theory,however they not able to explain the order in the universe based on their knowledge of explosians or implosians… Chaos is the product of an explosan or implosan..

[Stu]

Quote (theodorej @ Nov. 30 2011,04:48)

Greetings T8 ….

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If you embrace Stu' premise of 0 & 1

That was t8’s bizarre analogy, not mine.

Quote

you have the basis of binary mathmatics which is the platform for computer programing…. This kind of wisdom could only have been imparted by a being that exists

Who would be doubting the existence of those who invented the binary counting system?

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When you examine scientific theory and those that espouse it they almost all agree on one principle and that is cause and effect…

No, the principle is correlation, and the conclusion is cause and effect. There are situations where that conclusion cannot be drawn, and the big bang is one of them.

Quote

Science recognizes the big bang theory,however they not able to explain the order in the universe based on their knowledge of explosians or implosians…

Gravity. The tendency of the universe to return to a singularity, or lots of little ones.

Quote

Chaos is the product of an explosan or implosan..

Two common misconceptions in one. Firstly, the big bang is not an explosion, it is an inflation. Secondly, an increase in disorder in the universe (an increase in entropy) accompanies every physical / chemical change. But that does not mean everything always tends to disorder. For example, as a salt solution evaporates, very ordered crystals form spontaneously. That ordering in the salt is paid for by the disordering of the universe by the evaporation of the water and the release of energy from the formation of attractions between the ions in the salt crystal, which has the effect of disordering the universe.

So, chaos is ONE result of the universe doing chemistry and physics. Order is another.

Stuart

[terraricca]

Quote (Stu @ Nov. 30 2011,00:07)

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 29 2011,08:12) Stu, your are living in a dream world if you think what you are saying is sensical. You demonstrate blindness aptly as you are unable to see the gaping holes in your belief system. These are platitudes, terraricca. Those quotes from Job were different, they were reasons not to be a christian. Stuart

stu

you remind me of a scientist who made a study of a frog it goes like this;

the scientist took a frog on his desk and open a note book,then he hit the top of the desk and at the same time he said jump and the frog jumped,so he writes ;frog four legs ,jumps,then he pull off a leg from the frog and repeat this it ;hit the desk and say jump,when he came to the fourth leg ,he says has he hit the desk jump,but the frog could not jump any longer(he had no more leggs) so he writes down ;FROG NO LEGGS HIS DEAF,

this is what you do with the written word of God

Pierre

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Stu @ Nov. 30 2011,18:29)

That was t8’s bizarre analogy, not mine.

Incorrect.

Many Atheists believe that everything came from nothing, hence no God.

I simply am asking how to demonstrate how starting with 0 you can end up with 1, 2, 3…

And BTW, you have failed of course.

Show me the math, otherwise no proof.

You deny God and that leaves you with Gravity or Nothing.

Could you describe the Gravity Theory again.
Please start from the beginning because we probably have no debate with gravity thereafter.

I will start it for you to give you a hand.

In the beginning was Gravity….

Please complete. Thanks.

[Stu]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 01 2011,06:58)

Quote (Stu @ Nov. 30 2011,00:07) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 29 2011,08:12) Stu, your are living in a dream world if you think what you are saying is sensical. You demonstrate blindness aptly as you are unable to see the gaping holes in your belief system. These are platitudes, terraricca. Those quotes from Job were different, they were reasons not to be a christian. Stuart stu you remind me of a scientist who made a study of a frog it goes like this; the scientist took a frog on his desk and open a note book,then he hit the top of the desk and at the same time he said jump and the frog jumped,so he writes ;frog four legs ,jumps,then he pull off a leg from the frog and  repeat this it ;hit the desk and say jump,when he came to the fourth leg ,he says has he hit the desk jump,but the frog could not jump any longer(he had no more leggs) so he writes down ;FROG NO LEGGS HIS DEAF, this is what you do with the written word of God Pierre

What god?

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (t8 @ Dec. 01 2011,07:24)

Quote (Stu @ Nov. 30 2011,18:29) That was t8’s bizarre analogy, not mine. Incorrect. Many Atheists believe that everything came from nothing, hence no God. I simply am asking how to demonstrate how starting with 0 you can end up with 1, 2, 3… And BTW, you have failed of course. Show me the math, otherwise no proof. You deny God and that leaves you with Gravity or Nothing. Could you describe the Gravity Theory again. Please start from the beginning because we probably have no debate with gravity thereafter. I will start it for you to give you a hand. In the beginning was Gravity…. Please complete. Thanks.

I have absolutely no idea what you are wittering on about t8. What exactly are you asking for? Maths? Numerology (perhaps you could try Ed)? An explanation for the appearance of matter and energy? An explanation for the inflation of space-time?

I don't think you know enough even to ask those questions.

Stuart

[terraricca]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 02 2011,03:34)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 01 2011,06:58) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 30 2011,00:07) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 29 2011,08:12) Stu, your are living in a dream world if you think what you are saying is sensical. You demonstrate blindness aptly as you are unable to see the gaping holes in your belief system. These are platitudes, terraricca. Those quotes from Job were different, they were reasons not to be a christian. Stuart stu you remind me of a scientist who made a study of a frog it goes like this; the scientist took a frog on his desk and open a note book,then he hit the top of the desk and at the same time he said jump and the frog jumped,so he writes ;frog four legs ,jumps,then he pull off a leg from the frog and  repeat this it ;hit the desk and say jump,when he came to the fourth leg ,he says has he hit the desk jump,but the frog could not jump any longer(he had no more leggs) so he writes down ;FROG NO LEGGS HIS DEAF, this is what you do with the written word of God Pierre What god? Stuart

stu

how many gods do you know that have a written word equivalent of the bible ??

Pierre

[Stu]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 02 2011,07:52)

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 02 2011,03:34) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 01 2011,06:58) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 30 2011,00:07) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 29 2011,08:12) Stu, your are living in a dream world if you think what you are saying is sensical. You demonstrate blindness aptly as you are unable to see the gaping holes in your belief system. These are platitudes, terraricca. Those quotes from Job were different, they were reasons not to be a christian. Stuart stu you remind me of a scientist who made a study of a frog it goes like this; the scientist took a frog on his desk and open a note book,then he hit the top of the desk and at the same time he said jump and the frog jumped,so he writes ;frog four legs ,jumps,then he pull off a leg from the frog and  repeat this it ;hit the desk and say jump,when he came to the fourth leg ,he says has he hit the desk jump,but the frog could not jump any longer(he had no more leggs) so he writes down ;FROG NO LEGGS HIS DEAF, this is what you do with the written word of God Pierre What god? Stuart stu how many gods do you know that have a written word equivalent of the bible ?? Pierre

None.

Stuart

[terraricca]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 03 2011,04:43)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 02 2011,07:52) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 02 2011,03:34) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 01 2011,06:58) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 30 2011,00:07) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 29 2011,08:12) Stu, your are living in a dream world if you think what you are saying is sensical. You demonstrate blindness aptly as you are unable to see the gaping holes in your belief system. These are platitudes, terraricca. Those quotes from Job were different, they were reasons not to be a christian. Stuart stu you remind me of a scientist who made a study of a frog it goes like this; the scientist took a frog on his desk and open a note book,then he hit the top of the desk and at the same time he said jump and the frog jumped,so he writes ;frog four legs ,jumps,then he pull off a leg from the frog and  repeat this it ;hit the desk and say jump,when he came to the fourth leg ,he says has he hit the desk jump,but the frog could not jump any longer(he had no more leggs) so he writes down ;FROG NO LEGGS HIS DEAF, this is what you do with the written word of God Pierre What god? Stuart stu how many gods do you know that have a written word equivalent of the bible ?? Pierre None. Stuart

stu

there ,you answered your own question .

now you know ;;What god?Stuart.

I was talking about,

Pierre

[Stu]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 03 2011,02:47)

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 03 2011,04:43) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 02 2011,07:52) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 02 2011,03:34) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 01 2011,06:58) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 30 2011,00:07) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 29 2011,08:12) Stu, your are living in a dream world if you think what you are saying is sensical. You demonstrate blindness aptly as you are unable to see the gaping holes in your belief system. These are platitudes, terraricca. Those quotes from Job were different, they were reasons not to be a christian. Stuart stu you remind me of a scientist who made a study of a frog it goes like this; the scientist took a frog on his desk and open a note book,then he hit the top of the desk and at the same time he said jump and the frog jumped,so he writes ;frog four legs ,jumps,then he pull off a leg from the frog and  repeat this it ;hit the desk and say jump,when he came to the fourth leg ,he says has he hit the desk jump,but the frog could not jump any longer(he had no more leggs) so he writes down ;FROG NO LEGGS HIS DEAF, this is what you do with the written word of God Pierre What god? Stuart stu how many gods do you know that have a written word equivalent of the bible ?? Pierre None. Stuart stu there ,you answered your own question . now you know ;;What god?Stuart. I was talking about, Pierre

I know of no god. Is your god no god??

Stuart

[terraricca]

Quote (Stu @ Dec. 04 2011,04:16)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 03 2011,02:47) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 03 2011,04:43) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 02 2011,07:52) Quote (Stu @ Dec. 02 2011,03:34) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 01 2011,06:58) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 30 2011,00:07) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 29 2011,08:12) Stu, your are living in a dream world if you think what you are saying is sensical. You demonstrate blindness aptly as you are unable to see the gaping holes in your belief system. These are platitudes, terraricca. Those quotes from Job were different, they were reasons not to be a christian. Stuart stu you remind me of a scientist who made a study of a frog it goes like this; the scientist took a frog on his desk and open a note book,then he hit the top of the desk and at the same time he said jump and the frog jumped,so he writes ;frog four legs ,jumps,then he pull off a leg from the frog and  repeat this it ;hit the desk and say jump,when he came to the fourth leg ,he says has he hit the desk jump,but the frog could not jump any longer(he had no more leggs) so he writes down ;FROG NO LEGGS HIS DEAF, this is what you do with the written word of God Pierre What god? Stuart stu how many gods do you know that have a written word equivalent of the bible ?? Pierre None. Stuart stu there ,you answered your own question . now you know ;;What god?Stuart. I was talking about, Pierre I know of no god.  Is your god no god?? Stuart

Stu

Then you are your own god ,enjoy while it last,

Pierre

[princess]

Prince,

I do not see how T can tell you that you are your own god, then that would mean that you are imagining yourself. Which by all accounts would be taking nothing and turning it into something. Good show !!

Miss you much, hope you are well.
Princess

[Author]

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