Show me the fruit

[shimmer]

Gene, Kerwin is right, spirit is mind and heart not just intellect, the mind and heart go together, if someone is depressed and the doctor gives them prozac, why doesnt it work ? The answer is simple, problems are in the mind and also in the heart, drugs like prozac only work on the mind.

We are to love God with all of our mind and with all of our heart and with all of our soul,

[terraricca]

Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 25 2010,19:11)

Gene, Kerwin is right, spirit is mind and heart not just intellect, the mind and heart go together, if someone is depressed and the doctor gives them prozac, why doesnt it work ? The answer is simple, problems are in the mind and also in the heart, drugs like prozac only work on the mind. We are to love God with all of our mind and with all of our heart and with all of our soul,

shimmer

you mis one “all you strenght”

Pierre

[kerwin]

Pierre,

You wrote:

Quote

YOU ARE NOT IN ACCORD WITH SCRIPTURES CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD BECAUSE HIS PREEXISTING CONDITION.

That is not written in Scripture.

What is written is that one becomes a son of God through receiving the Spirit of God. Jesus received the Spirit of Righteousness before he could be tempted by Satan and that made him the Son of God. We know the last because Jesus did not sin even though tempted even as we are.

You wrote:

Quote

YOUR INTERPRETATIONS ARE OF JEWISH VIEWS

Jesus is a Jew and fulfills Jewish prophecy from the holy scriptures of the Jews. Many of the New Testament writers are Jews.

[mikeboll64]

Kerwin:

Quote

What is written is that one becomes a son of God through receiving the Spirit of God.   Jesus received the Spirit of Righteousness before he could be tempted by Satan and that made him the Son of God.

But I though your whole denial of the scriptures that clearly say Jesus pre-existed was based on the fact that it makes you feel all warm and cuddly knowing Jesus was EXACTLY LIKE US.  But now you throw in an advantage that Jesus had OVER US.  How can we be expected to achieve the goals that Jesus did if he was unfairly given the Spirit of Righteousness before he even had a chance to be tempted?    If we are not given that same Spirit in the same measure, then Jesus was NOT EXACTLY LIKE US.

You just eliminated your whole reason for denying Jesus' pre-existence in the first place, Kerwin.  So you might as well stop twisting and ignoring clear scriptures that say Jesus pre-existed – because you end up with the same result either way.

Kerwin:

Quote

Many of the New Testament writers are Jews.

Are there any who are not?  I thought they all were.

peace and love,
mike

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 25 2010,21:06)

Pierre, You wrote: Quote YOU ARE NOT IN ACCORD WITH SCRIPTURES CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD BECAUSE HIS PREEXISTING CONDITION. That is not written in Scripture. What is written is that one becomes a son of God through receiving the Spirit of God.   Jesus received the Spirit of Righteousness before he could be tempted by Satan and that made him the Son of God.   We know the last because Jesus did not sin even though tempted even as we are. You wrote: Quote YOUR INTERPRETATIONS ARE OF JEWISH VIEWS Jesus is a Jew and fulfills Jewish prophecy from the holy scriptures of the Jews.  Many of the New Testament writers are Jews.

Kerwin

wen i said this;YOUR INTERPRETATIONS ARE OF JEWISH VIEWS[/quote]

i meant that your views were not Christian views,

and for preexisting of Christ ,it would be good for you to go to that topic since the beginning may be you will see some thing,

Pierre

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (shimmer @ Oct. 25 2010,12:11)

Gene, Kerwin is right, spirit is mind and heart not just intellect, the mind and heart go together, if someone is depressed and the doctor gives them prozac, why doesnt it work ? The answer is simple, problems are in the mind and also in the heart, drugs like prozac only work on the mind. We are to love God with all of our mind and with all of our heart and with all of our soul,

Shimmer…………I agree spirit is a (type) of intellect that is definitely working in the mind and heart of a person. I use intellect in a overall sense, as apposed to a (being), no matter if it is good or evil it still is working in the mind or Heart of a person, I also believe (the truth) is an awareness that is given to us by the HOLY Spirit of GOD, but it is given to us through our minds and that does effect our hearts through our minds. It is a special sense of understanding that goes into our minds and it does effect our hearts . I am not disagreeing with you or Kerwin on this. Heart and minds are definitely effected by these (intellects) or Spirits. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 25 2010,14:06)

Pierre, You wrote: Quote YOU ARE NOT IN ACCORD WITH SCRIPTURES CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD BECAUSE HIS PREEXISTING CONDITION. That is not written in Scripture. What is written is that one becomes a son of God through receiving the Spirit of God.   Jesus received the Spirit of Righteousness before he could be tempted by Satan and that made him the Son of God.   We know the last because Jesus did not sin even though tempted even as we are. You wrote: Quote YOUR INTERPRETATIONS ARE OF JEWISH VIEWS Jesus is a Jew and fulfills Jewish prophecy from the holy scriptures of the Jews.  Many of the New Testament writers are Jews.

Kerwin………..You have this absolutely right a person becomes a Son of GOD by receiving first forgiveness and then the HOLY SPIRIT FROM GOD Into His or Her heart and Mind. The same way Jesus Became a Son of GOD also did at the Jordan River. He did not preexist with the Holy spirit , he acquired it at the Jordan river and after that he was tested in the wilderness. But false teachers never stop separating us from Christ Jesus our Brother. IMO

peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene

[Tim Kraft]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 25 2010,14:06)

Pierre, You wrote: Quote YOU ARE NOT IN ACCORD WITH SCRIPTURES CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD BECAUSE HIS PREEXISTING CONDITION. That is not written in Scripture. What is written is that one becomes a son of God through receiving the Spirit of God.   Jesus received the Spirit of Righteousness before he could be tempted by Satan and that made him the Son of God.   We know the last because Jesus did not sin even though tempted even as we are. You wrote: Quote YOUR INTERPRETATIONS ARE OF JEWISH VIEWS Jesus is a Jew and fulfills Jewish prophecy from the holy scriptures of the Jews.  Many of the New Testament writers are Jews.

Hey Kerwin: I question whether Jesus was a Jew.

Joseph was not his blood father. I get the feeling God is not a Jew.

Jesus did not follow the Jewish Laws at all.
He worked on the sabbath.
Set free a guilty lady caught in the act of adultry.
Ate corn from the fields they walked through.
Didn't pay the temple tax until he was caught.
Healed the man at the pool on the sabbath.
Didn't follow purification rituals like washings.
Didn't follow sacrifices or offerings to the temple.
and probably many more things.
Jesus had the same respect for Jewish Laws that I have. '0'

God bless you, TK

[shimmer]

Terrarica you are right I did miss that one, 'and all of your strength'

Gene, glad you see that.

[kerwin]

Mike Boll,

Thank you for your question. The answer is Jesus has no advantage over us, in regard to his not sinning despite being tempted as we are, that we cannot obtain. It is true that his faith in God has been complete since the moment he had the ability to choose to believe God and because of that he obtained and lived by the Holy Spirit. We can obtain that same faith through obedience to Jesus’ teachings and thus faith he is the Anointed One that God appointed King of heaven and earth. With faith we receive the Holy Spirit and when our faith is complete we also will not sin despite being tempted even as we now are.

It is not because it makes you “feel all warm and cuddly” but rather that it is necessary to know Jesus is proof that a human being can become righteous and holy even as God is. In this way you receive and live by the Spirit by faith from first to last.

I believe Luke is a Gentile. He is the only exception I am aware of.

[Baker]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 27 2010,09:07)

Mike Boll, Thank you for your question.  The answer is Jesus has no advantage over us, in regard to his not sinning despite being tempted as we are, that we cannot obtain.   It is true that his faith in God has been complete since the moment he had the ability to choose to believe God and because of that he obtained and lived by the Holy Spirit.  We can obtain that same faith through obedience to Jesus’ teachings and thus faith he is the Anointed One that God appointed King of heaven and earth.  With faith we receive the Holy Spirit and when our faith is complete we also will not sin despite being tempted even as we now are. It is not because it makes you “feel all warm and cuddly” but rather that it is necessary to know Jesus is proof that a human being can become righteous and holy even as God is.  In this way you receive and live by the Spirit by faith from first to last. I believe Luke is a Gentile.  He is the only exception I am aware of.

Kerwin!  Just being Gods literal Son gives Him an advantage over us.  Jesus as a Human Being had God's Holy Spirit full strength.   We have God's Holy Spirit in measures.  That makes Him different.
Also in

Jhn 6:38   For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.  

Jhn 6:39   And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.  

Jesus uis doing God's will and He came down from Heaven to do so.  He was send??? where did God send Him from?  Scripture says from Heaven….

and in

Jhn 17:5   And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

What glory is He now?  And remember that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.  No one has seen Jehovah God or heard His voice.  Only He who came from Heaven has…..
Peace and Love Irene

[kerwin]

Pierre,

True Christianity is the true trunk of Judaism and those who call themselves Jews are heretics much like Muslims, Many Christian sects and others.

Jewish beliefs that are firmly based in the Old Testament are part of the foundation of Christianity.

In short I acknowledge I am a Gentile that is overjoyed to follow Jesus and thus the trunk of Judaism and not the shed branches whatever they call themselves that have abandoned their first love.

Perhaps you are correct about switching to a more appropriately titled thread.

[kerwin]

Tim K.

Mary is both the father and mother of Jesus as his conception was a miracle.

God is spirit and so procreates through the spirit and not as humans do. Jesus received the Spirit of God before or as soon as he had the ability to choose between righteousness and sin and he is the Spiritual Son of God.

The common tradition of Judaism at that time traced Judaism through the mother, Acts 16:1-3, so Jesus is a Jew.

[Ed J]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 27 2010,09:37)

Tim K. Mary is both the father and mother of Jesus as his conception was a miracle. God is spirit and so procreates through the spirit and not as humans do.  Jesus received the Spirit of God before or as soon as he had the ability to choose between righteousness and sin and he is the Spiritual Son of God. The common tradition of Judaism at that time traced Judaism through the mother, Acts 16:1-3, so Jesus is a Jew.

HI Kerwin,

The Bible clearly says Jesus' father was the “HolySpirit”,
why do you discount that FACT? (Matthew 1:18, 1:20)

Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her,
The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the
Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing
which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Ed J.,

I did declare Jesus' father to be the Holy Spirit as God is Jesus' Spiritual Father.

The scriptures you mention merely support that God acted through his Spirit to cause the miraculous conception of Jesus just as the Holy Spirit also took part in the old creation, Genesis 1:2.

I can expand on my point if you do not see how I reached the conclusions I did.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 27 2010,09:07)

Mike Boll, Thank you for your question.  The answer is Jesus has no advantage over us, in regard to his not sinning despite being tempted as we are, that we cannot obtain.   It is true that his faith in God has been complete since the moment he had the ability to choose to believe God and because of that he obtained and lived by the Holy Spirit.  We can obtain that same faith through obedience to Jesus’ teachings and thus faith he is the Anointed One that God appointed King of heaven and earth.  With faith we receive the Holy Spirit and when our faith is complete we also will not sin despite being tempted even as we now are. It is not because it makes you “feel all warm and cuddly” but rather that it is necessary to know Jesus is proof that a human being can become righteous and holy even as God is.  In this way you receive and live by the Spirit by faith from first to last. I believe Luke is a Gentile.  He is the only exception I am aware of.

Kerwin ………..Right on brother. I see it that way also. We do not separated Jesus form or likeness and Our Identity with Him, as Preexistences and Trinitarians do. What GOD the FATHER did (IN) Christ Jesus he can also do (IN) US. Good Post Kerwin.

peace and love to you and yours………………………gene

[dirtyknections]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 28 2010,01:04)

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 27 2010,09:07) Mike Boll, Thank you for your question.  The answer is Jesus has no advantage over us, in regard to his not sinning despite being tempted as we are, that we cannot obtain.   It is true that his faith in God has been complete since the moment he had the ability to choose to believe God and because of that he obtained and lived by the Holy Spirit.  We can obtain that same faith through obedience to Jesus’ teachings and thus faith he is the Anointed One that God appointed King of heaven and earth.  With faith we receive the Holy Spirit and when our faith is complete we also will not sin despite being tempted even as we now are. It is not because it makes you “feel all warm and cuddly” but rather that it is necessary to know Jesus is proof that a human being can become righteous and holy even as God is.  In this way you receive and live by the Spirit by faith from first to last. I believe Luke is a Gentile.  He is the only exception I am aware of. Kerwin ………..Right on brother. I see it that way also. We do not separated Jesus form or likeness and Our Identity with Him, as Preexistences and Trinitarians do. What GOD the FATHER did (IN) Christ Jesus he can also do (IN) US. Good Post Kerwin. peace and love to you and yours………………………gene

Sorry…but I disagree with you guys….

If we can do what Jesus did….show me one other person since Jesus died who has been able to do what he did…and I am not referring to the miracles he performed….

Jesus as described in the bible was not like me…his beginning, middle, and end…are nothing like mine…the only thing we share are are flesh and life…his command over his flesh and spirit I can not have….and neither can you, or anybody you know, or have ever known or read about….

The “possible” and the “common” are two VERY different things…

[dirtyknections]

Now if you guys are asserting that we will be able to do this at some future point in time…then i say fair enough….i guess we will see

[kerwin]

Quote (dirtyknections @ Oct. 28 2010,06:52)

Now if you guys are asserting that we will be able to do this at some future point in time…then i say fair enough….i guess we will see

That is what I am stating since God stated those who hunger for righteousness will receive it. That makes a point of faith that will be fulfilled when you reach full maturity in Christ. I cannot say who has done so because I do not have enough information. I can also not say the speed at which each individual will reach the goal as each goes at their own speed.

[mikeboll64]

Kerwin:

Quote

The answer is Jesus has no advantage over us, in regard to his not sinning despite being tempted as we are, that we cannot obtain.   It is true that his faith in God has been complete since the moment he had the ability to choose to believe God and because of that he obtained and lived by the Holy Spirit.

But Jesus is said to NEVER have sinned.  How did he manage that from birth until age 30……when he received the Holy Spirit?  

Kerwin:

Quote

We can obtain that same faith through obedience to Jesus’ teachings and thus faith he is the Anointed One that God appointed King of heaven and earth.  With faith we receive the Holy Spirit

Each and every one of us has sinned countless times before we are old enough to even know what the Holy Spirit is.  We are born into sin Kerwin.  How could Jesus have been born into sin and yet remain sinless?

Kerwin:

Quote

It is not because it makes you “feel all warm and cuddly” but rather that it is necessary to know Jesus is proof that a human being can become righteous and holy even as God is.

But it is not that we never sinned Kerwin.  It is because through Jesus, God has chosen not to remember our sins.  Without the sacrifice of Jesus, God Himself could not be righteous in ever calling one of us righteous.  I think we become holy and righteous in God's eyes, not because receiving the Holy Spirit is some kind of “magic wand” that disables us from sinning ever again, but by the undeserved kindness of God and His willingness to overlook our unrighteousness because He considers those sins to be “paid for” by the blood of His own Son.  

Anyway, there's a big difference between Jesus and us right there.  He never sinned……..our sins will be forgotten by God.

Kerwin:

Quote

I believe Luke is a Gentile.  He is the only exception I am aware of.

I did not know that.  How did you come across that info?

By the way, you didn't really answer my question. Jesus received the Holy Spirit “without measure”. Have any of us? So is that “fair”, or does that give Jesus an advantage?

peace and love,
mike

[Author]

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