Show me the fruit

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 21 2010,13:24)

Colossians 1:16-17 For by [YHVH] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he(YHVH) is before all things, and by him(YHVH) all things consist. Get the story straight guy's! YHVH is our Creator and our GOD!

Hi Ed,

So YHVH is the “firstborn of all creation”?

15 speaks of the same one spoken of in 16,17.

mike

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 21 2010,07:24)

Hi T, Did Jesus create God ? ? ? God is in Heaven, No? God is invisible, No?   It is utter absurdity to believe Col.1:16-17 is referring to Jesus?! Colossians 1:16-17 For by [YHVH] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he(YHVH) is before all things, and by him(YHVH) all things consist. Get the story straight guy's! YHVH is our Creator and our GOD! Isaiah 44:24 …I (YHVH) the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens ALONE; that spreadeth abroad the earth BY MYSELF; Will you have us all to believe (falsely) Isaiah 44:24 is in error? Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17) יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

Hi Ed J,
Just to butt in, since we have a WHOLE thread dedicated to Col 1:15
and another one that branched from that one.

maybe you should read the context Ed.

12Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of (1)his dear Son:
14 (2)In whom have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
The Context clearly proves that its Jesus that is the subject of Collossians 1.
*1- says IN HIS DEAR SON, So the subject is about his Son- Jesus christ.
*2- To add, “IN WHOM” which is also in reference to his Son, because we know that thruogh his blood we have the forgiveness of sins.
So its CLEAR that the next verses all TALK about Jesus.
EVEN  1:19
19For it pleased (1)the Father that in (2)him should all fulness dwell;
1*-Obviously talking about the Father
2* the whole subject is about “him” who is his Son, so this further proves that the pretext refers to Christ as well.

It is utter absurdity to believe Col.1:16-17 is NOT referring to Jesus?!

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 21 2010,13:29)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 21 2010,13:24) Colossians 1:16-17 For by [YHVH] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he(YHVH) is before all things, and by him(YHVH) all things consist. Get the story straight guy's! YHVH is our Creator and our GOD! Hi Ed, So YHVH is the “firstborn of all creation”? 15 speaks of the same one spoken of in 16,17. mike

Hi Mike,

We have been through this before!
Verse 15 is different than verses 16 and 17, remember?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

I am so tired of people pretending scriptures don't say what they plainly say just to keep the words from “stepping on the toes” of what they WANT the scriptures to say.

I'll let SF go through it with you this time, Ed.

mike

[Ed J]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 21 2010,13:39)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 21 2010,07:24) Hi T, Did Jesus create God ? ? ? God is in Heaven, No? God is invisible, No?   It is utter absurdity to believe Col.1:16-17 is referring to Jesus?! Colossians 1:16-17 For by [YHVH] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he(YHVH) is before all things, and by him(YHVH) all things consist. Get the story straight guy's! YHVH is our Creator and our GOD! Isaiah 44:24 …I (YHVH) the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens ALONE; that spreadeth abroad the earth BY MYSELF; Will you have us all to believe (falsely) Isaiah 44:24 is in error? Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH! (Psalm 45:17) יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16) Hi Ed J, Just to butt in, since we have a WHOLE thread dedicated to Col 1:15 and another one that branched from that one. maybe you should read the context Ed. 12Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of (1)his dear Son: 14 (2)In whom have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: The Context clearly proves that its Jesus that is the subject of Collossians 1. *1- says IN HIS DEAR SON, So the subject is about his Son- Jesus christ. *2- To add, “IN WHOM” which is also in reference to his Son, because we know that thruogh his blood we have the forgiveness of sins. So its CLEAR that the next verses all TALK about Jesus. EVEN  1:19 19For it pleased (1)the Father that in (2)him should all fulness dwell; 1*-Obviously talking about the Father 2* the whole subject is about “him” who is his Son, so this further proves that the pretext refers to Christ as well. It is utter absurdity to believe Col.1:16-17 is NOT referring to Jesus?!

Hi SF,

“God The Father” is the “Subject” in Col.1:12-20 and Jesus is the Object; English 101.
I will take the liberty to insert both the subject and object into the text for 'your' understanding.
Normally I remove the numbers, but for explanation purposes, my “Free Will” will leave them in for you.
There is no inconsistencies with the rest of “The Bible” viewing Col.1:12-20 in the light of my view. (Eph.5:13)

Col.1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet
to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light (Romans 8:17):
13: Who (YHVH our God) hath delivered us from the power of darkness,
and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son(switching to object):
14: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15: Who(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God(YHVH), the firstborn of every creature:
16: For by him(YHVH)(switching back to the subject) were all things created, that are in heaven,
and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities,
or powers: all things were created by him(YHVH), and for him(YHVH):
17: And he(YHVH) is before all things, and by him(YHVH) all things consist.
18: And he(Jesus)(switching back to the object) is the head of the body, the church:
who is the beginning(the preeminence of God), the firstborn from the dead (Romans 1:4);
that in all things he(Jesus) might have the preeminence(over all his brethren).
19: For it pleased the Father that in him(Jesus) should all fulness dwell;
20: And, having made peace through the blood of his(Jesus) cross,
by him(YHVH) to reconcile all things unto himself(2Cor.5:18);
by him, whether things in earth, or things in heaven.

Lets now look at verse 16 and verse 17 with greater scrutiny…

16: For by him(YHVH) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth,
visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities,
or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: (Rev.4:11)

Would 'you' have us to believe Jesus (falsely) created these things “in Heaven”…

1. God's throne
2. God's dominion
3. God's principality
4. God's power
5. God himself

Can you not see the flaw in 'your' assertion?

Now let's take a closer look at verse 17…

17: And he(YHVH) is before all things, and by him(YHVH) all things consist.

Would 'you' have us to believe Jesus (falsely) is before YHVH himself?
Would 'you' have us to believe by Jesus (falsely) all things consist?
How can you reconcile this belief without saying Jesus is God?

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

Pierre,

Perhaps you should question the assumptions you make about scripture as 3 versus later Paul teaches us:

Colossians 1:18(NIV) reads:

Quote

And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.

What do you think “firstborn among the dead” means?

Isn’t it obvious this scripture is speaking of his resurrection?  This is the same resurrection that we too are born into a new creation?  So why do you think he is using the same term  to describe two separate creations just versus apart?

What do you think “so that in everything he might have the supremacy” means?

Does it not mean all things are subject to him and became so only after his resurrection?

If it does mean that all things are made subject to him after his resurrection then how could he create the world prior to it?

[GeneBalthrop]

Kerwin………..You have it right Jesus is the (firstborn) from the “DEAD” not the first born of all creation as false Preexistences want us to believe. Jesus did not attain to the Glory preplanned for him until he was resurected as a Human with a body and being the first from all born creation to achieve that goal, and that Glory He had with GOD the FATHER before the creation of the world, God PREPLANNED that and in the right time it came about as GOD Planned it to. So Jesus could easily say the Glory i had with You before the world was, Yes he did have preplanned glory and now has that glory.

peace and love…………………………gene

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 22 2010,02:54)

Pierre, Perhaps you should question the assumptions you make about scripture as 3 versus later Paul teaches us: Colossians 1:18(NIV) reads: Quote And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. What do you think “firstborn among the dead” means? Isn’t it obvious this scripture is speaking of his resurrection?  This is the same resurrection that we too are born into a new creation?  So why do you think he is using the same term  to describe two separate creations just versus apart? What do you think “so that in everything he might have the supremacy” means? Does it not mean all things are subject to him and became so only after his resurrection? If it does mean that all things are made subject to him after his resurrection then how could he create the world prior to it?

kerwin

i taught i have a language problem,but i see you may have one to,

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him

you try to make all the same in your mind ,wrong you have to add all things has Paul said.

do not try to twist scriptures in your mind to justify your errors,

Pierre

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 21 2010,09:06)

Hi SF, “God The Father” is the “Subject” in Col.1:12-20 and Jesus is the Object; English 101. I will take the liberty to insert both the subject and object into the text for 'your' understanding. Normally I remove the numbers, but for explanation purposes, my “Free Will” will leave them in for you. There is no inconsistencies with the rest of “The Bible” viewing Col.1:12-20 in the light of my view. (Eph.5:13) Col.1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light (Romans 8:17): 13: Who (YHVH our God) hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son(switching to object): 14: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15: Who(Jesus) is the image of the invisible God(YHVH), the firstborn of every creature: 16: For by him(YHVH)(switching back to the subject) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him(YHVH), and for him(YHVH): 17: And he(YHVH) is before all things, and by him(YHVH) all things consist. 18: And he(Jesus)(switching back to the object) is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning(the preeminence of God), the firstborn from the dead (Romans 1:4); that in all things he(Jesus) might have the preeminence(over all his brethren). 19: For it pleased the Father that in him(Jesus) should all fulness dwell; 20: And, having made peace through the blood of his(Jesus) cross, by him(YHVH) to reconcile all things unto himself(2Cor.5:18); by him, whether things in earth, or things in heaven. Lets now look at verse 16 and verse 17 with greater scrutiny… 16: For by him(YHVH) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: (Rev.4:11) Would 'you' have us to believe Jesus (falsely) created these things “in Heaven”… 1. God's throne 2. God's dominion 3. God's principality 4. God's power 5. God himself Can you not see the flaw in 'your' assertion? Now let's take a closer look at verse 17… 17: And he(YHVH) is before all things, and by him(YHVH) all things consist. Would 'you' have us to believe Jesus (falsely) is before YHVH himself? Would 'you' have us to believe by Jesus (falsely) all things consist? How can you reconcile this belief without saying Jesus is God? Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17) יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Ed J,
You think that interpreting the Bible is based on the ability to read English, this is a false approach, the True Interpretation of the Bible is based on the guidance of the Holy spirit, the orginal content and orginal language.

Theology/Cristology 101 – study the orginal, English is flawed.

Your Adding to scripture.
And you got it all wrong.
and it is most certainily YOUR view not truth.

You mention many times that “its switching back to object”
with NO proof to suggest that Paul ever intended to switch the subject at all.

Quote

Would 'you' have us to believe Jesus (falsely) created these things “in Heaven”… 1. God's throne 2. God's dominion 3. God's principality 4. God's power 5. God himself Can you not see the flaw in 'your' assertion?

Im not having anyone believe in anything, This is what Paul plainly and directly wrote.
He Created THRONES, (It doesnt say God's throne however) DOMINIONS, POWER, AND PRINCIPLALITES.
None of the above includes that he created God,(because they are the same person)

No matter if you want to believe that Jesus is God or not, the truth is the whole subject from 15-19 is about Jesus, becuase in vs 20 he says so that “ALL fullness may dwell in him”
this includes the thrones, dominino, principaliries and power.

Quote

Would 'you' have us to believe Jesus (falsely) is before YHVH himself? Would 'you' have us to believe by Jesus (falsely) all things consist? How can you reconcile this belief without saying Jesus is God?

Actually the Bible says that the FATHER and Jesus are ONE,
ECHAD. It never says that Jesus was ever seperate nor greater than the father.
Jesus said he is the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIGHT, and there is no other way to the Father but by Him.  So by him ALL things do Consist.
he is the True Vine, the Redeemer, Col 14-20 proves all of that, which INCLUDES John 1-20 as the “Logos”

EXACTLY how can anyone reconcile this belief that Jesus created and existed in the beginnning without saying he is God.

[Baker]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 22 2010,04:29)

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 22 2010,02:54) Pierre, Perhaps you should question the assumptions you make about scripture as 3 versus later Paul teaches us: Colossians 1:18(NIV) reads: Quote And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. What do you think “firstborn among the dead” means? Isn’t it obvious this scripture is speaking of his resurrection?  This is the same resurrection that we too are born into a new creation?  So why do you think he is using the same term  to describe two separate creations just versus apart? What do you think “so that in everything he might have the supremacy” means? Does it not mean all things are subject to him and became so only after his resurrection? If it does mean that all things are made subject to him after his resurrection then how could he create the world prior to it? kerwin i taught i have a language problem,but i see you may have one to, Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him you try to make all the same in your mind ,wrong you have to add all things has Paul said. do not try to twist scriptures in your mind to justify your errors, Pierre

Pierre! Right on. Col 1:15 is where it says that Jesus is the firstborn of all creation. And verse 18 says this.

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.

Preeminence means that He was first in all. Firstborn of all creation, and firstborn of the dead….

Peace and Love Irene

[martian]

1. Firstborn does not necessarily mean first birthed. It can be an appointed position as we know Christ was appointed to many position titles.
2. Col 1 15- 17 is about Christ. The Hebrews have no concept of “creating something from nothing”. That is a Western cultural concept. Creation means to fatten or fill up. It carries the concept of bringing to completion. Christ ministry brought all of creation to completion. Without Christ nothing in the world has any meaning.

No mystical preexistence is needed to understand this verse. All that is needed is some honest research into the language and culture within which it was written. Of course I have not yet met a preexister that has honesty when it comes to interpretation of scripture. Most or monkey ministries.
Don't think I am back. I am only putting in a point because I was ask to explain certain concepts.

[kerwin]

Martian,

Just because even an expert claims something is true does not mean it is. You lay out your case and allow your hearers/readers to render their judgment. You then try to make another case to explain your viewpoint whether believe it or not.

At this point I hear you but not the evidence to support your viewpoint.

Patience and love is required to teach.

[martian]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 22 2010,09:00)

Martian, Just because even an expert claims something is true does not mean it is. You lay out your case and allow your hearers/readers to render their judgment.  You then try to make another case to explain your viewpoint whether believe it or not.   At this point I hear you but not the evidence to support your viewpoint. Patience and love is required to teach.

To quote Mike, It is none of your business how I come to my conclusions. however I can give you a hint. I learned how to walk with God from Monkeys.

OR

I could claim my knowledge from Armstrong the cult leader or the Catholic church.

All of these qualifications seem to be good enough for the preexisters so I guess that is all I need.

[mikeboll64]

Hi Martian,

You left out the quality of believing and following scriptural truth, no matter whether it fits into our own ideals or not.

You have had some time off. Has that given you an opportunity to come up with one thing you ever did in your entire life to follow Jesus that you couldn't have done if he pre-existed?

How about your church buddies that laugh at me? Have they thought of anything yet?

peace and love,
mike

[seekingtruth]

I'm not a true trinitarian, but I do believe that Jesus pre-existed.

The best “fruit” I can lay claim to is a literal interpretation of scriptures, these including the ones instructing us to give preference, to love our enemies, to forgive, and to give of ourselves and our possessions. I endeavor to seek truth and to embrace it even when it goes against what I want it to be. I'm sure I still have a ways to go but God is more patient with me, then many here.

my opinion – Wm

[kerwin]

Pierre,

You wrote:

Quote

do not try to twist scriptures in your mind to justify your errors,

I am well aware I do make errors but that does not mean I am making one this time.  You should check yourself as you have failed to support your interpretation with evidence while I have presented evidence and asked you have not answered.

I believe you have reached the conclusion that Colossians 1:18 is speaking of the new creation and Colossians 1:15 is speaking of the old.  Irene uses as evidential support the scripture that reads “…that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.” As you present no evidence I will address hers.

First though I have a question.  Do you agree that it is true about the new creation that “For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist”?  Whatever your answer to that question could you please explain using either scripture why you believe what you so.  Thank you!

Now as to Irene’s point. The clause “that in all things he might have the preeminence” is the stated reason why Jesus is the firstborn from the dead, and the beginning.  Those two titles are obviously synonyms since a comma without any qualifier such as an “and” or a “or” is used.

In addition the conjunction “and” is used thus linking verse 18 to verse 17.

[mikeboll64]

Col 1:16 NIV
16For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.

I think problems arise from the NIV and other translator's use of the word “BY” in 1:16.  The word is more accurately translated as “THROUGH”, and fits very nicely into the rest of scripture as thus.  But because certain trinitarians want Jesus to be God Himself, they render the word “BY” to imply Jesus created.  And this messes people up.  

First of all, both OT AND NT specifically say Jehovah alone created.  But the NT points out that Jehovah created THROUGH Jesus.  Scripture ONLY tells us about ONE Creator, and He is the Father, NOT the Son.

But by rendering the Greek words “en” and “dia” as “BY”, they've got SF thinking Jesus is God, because things were only created “BY” God, and this scripture says “BY”.

And they've got Ed changing “objects” in the passage in a way that makes no sense whatsoever, JUST to keep the scripture from saying things were created “BY” Jesus.  

The word is “THROUGH”, not “BY”, as attested to in 1 Cor 8:6,

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Now here, the NIV correctly translates the Greek word “dia” as “THROUGH”, and it fits Paul's thought perfectly.  He makes clear that there is only ONE God, that “God” is the Father, that all things came FROM that ONE God, and that Jesus Christ is someone OTHER THAN that ONE God whom all things came THROUGH.

ALL OF US HERE agree that ONLY God created – it's just that some of us think Jesus IS that God or at least a “part of Him”.  And 1 Cor 8:6 (and many other scriptures) makes it abundantly clear that Jesus is someone other than God, so therefore he did NOT create.

On the flip side, the fact that all things were created THROUGH Jesus should prove that Jesus pre-existed easily enough.  And it should put an end to Ed twisting Col 1 non-sensically.

BUT WILL IT?  

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 22 2010,12:57)

I believe you have reached the conclusion that Colossians 1:18 is speaking of the new creation and Colossians 1:15 is speaking of the old.

Hi Kerwin,

Does this scripture relate to the “new” or “old” creation?

Hebrews 1:2 NIV
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

How about this one?

John 1:3 NIV
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 22 2010,12:45)

I'm not a true trinitarian, but I do believe that Jesus pre-existed.

Hi Wm,

I'm not any kind of trinitarian at all. But I know that scripture PLAINLY teaches that Jesus pre-existed. The pre-existence of Jesus has nothing at all to do with the Trinity Doctrine.

peace and love,
mike

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 22 2010,19:57)

Pierre, You wrote: Quote do not try to twist scriptures in your mind to justify your errors, I am well aware I do make errors but that does not mean I am making one this time.  You should check yourself as you have failed to support your interpretation with evidence while I have presented evidence and asked you have not answered. I believe you have reached the conclusion that Colossians 1:18 is speaking of the new creation and Colossians 1:15 is speaking of the old.  Irene uses as evidential support the scripture that reads “…that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.” As you present no evidence I will address hers. First though I have a question.  Do you agree that it is true about the new creation that “For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist”?  Whatever your answer to that question could you please explain using either scripture why you believe what you so.  Thank you! Now as to Irene’s point. The clause “that in all things he might have the preeminence” is the stated reason why Jesus is the firstborn from the dead, and the beginning.  Those two titles are obviously synonyms since a comma without any qualifier such as an “and” or a “or” is used. In addition the conjunction “and” is used thus linking verse 18 to verse 17.

kerwin

first i want to clear that you are still wrong;because Col;1….
as to be in accord with the rest of Paul scriptures ,if not you making Paul a liear,and worse the souce of lies;and so Christ aperance is also not true and all the books he made.
just because of KERWIN does not understand col;1…
I would say KERWIN is wrong.

I say;Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
Col 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.
Col 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—
Col 1:23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the;NIV

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
Col 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.
Col 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—
Col 1:23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the;NASV

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven;;NKJV

A HYMN OF PRAISE TO CHRIST
Colossians 1:15-20

Verse Greek Text Literal Translation
Col. 1:15 o(/v e)stin (1), (2) who is (1) title, (2) title
Col. 1:16
o(/ti e)n au)tw=

now scriptures do not say that Christ nor the WORD his the creator but it is trough him and for him.

Pierre

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