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Mandy Our responsibility lies with God. I owe nobody anything, especially not to a Atheist or somebody that does not belief in my Savior. This is a Christian Website nothing else, but since they came it has gotten to a point that all we do is defend our Faith. That makes no sense to me. I am hear to share and fellowship with a Christian nobody else, sorry I have to disagree with you on this. Tell you the truth I am really tired of it. I don't even feel like posting anymore.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Irene,
I can certainly understand your frustration. However, “defending our faith” is partially what we are called to do as Christians. That, and to love one another (this command does not specify, by the way, whether or not we are to withhold our love from non-confessing-Christ believer's). But I suppose even this could be argued.
As far as “owing” anybody anything – I fear this statement has been made out of anger and your complete frustration. It certainly doesn't sound very loving at all to me. We owe our lives to Christ. Remember that he layed down his life for us (while we were yet sinners), and we are to walk as Christ did. These are gentle reminders to remember our roots…….love, patience, long-suffering, hope, joy.
One must decide for himself when it is time to shake the dust from their sandles and move on. But Christian fellowship also includes trials and tribulations. Peter, Paul, Timothy and all the rest of the dudes went through trials. They were mocked, beaten and publically scorned and cast out because of their beliefs. And yet they enjoyed fellowship with one another as well. We can have that here, too, I believe. I have fellowship with my Christian brethren here, as well as endure trials from other's. These are my thoughts and feelings on the matter.
But if you are looking for an inclusive club for Christians…..I don't think this site was ever intended to be that. And I for one am glad that it isn't. I do love you, Irene. I hope you know this. But we just do not agree on this point. And that is OK.
Mandy
In my opinion any one who wants to know why we believe that that God is a reality and the Jesus is His Son and His Christ should be allowed to question why we believe the way that we do, and they should be allowed to state why they believe something different, but this is a Christian Website, and when the intent of an individual is to draw Christians away from the faith, then we should not longer engage them in converstation.
I was interested in what Towshab had to say because I wanted to know why some Jews do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah and so I engaged him in conversation telling him why I do believe, but after I've done that there is no point in continuing the conversation. I know that God is a reality and that Jesus is His Son and His Christ because God's Spirit within me testifies of these facts. If God testifies to this reality, how then should I listen to a man who tries to tell me something to the contrary?
Certainly, we would not allow someone Towshab or Stu to preach from our pulpit in church teaching believers the Word of God, but if we had a place where unbelievers could come and ask qestions about our faith as does the church where I worship I believe that this is a good thing. This is a public forum where I do believe that they should be able to come and ask questions as long as they follow the rules. I do not believe that any one should be able to come on this site whose purpose is to insult our God or our Lord. In my opinion this should be one of the rules of conduct.
God Bless
942767 You are one of the first that makes sense to me and I appreciate that. I have felt from the first post that Tow made that He was here to give us trouble and I was right. All He does is argue with us. I agree with you and do not have conversations with them. Thank you.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (942767 @ Nov. 25 2007,10:20) This is a public forum where I do believe that they should be able to come and ask questions as long as they follow the rules. I do not believe that any one should be able to come on this site whose purpose is to insult our God or our Lord. In my opinion this should be one of the rules of conduct.
This has been exactly my opinion also!I have asked t8 to add to the rules that no one is allowed to insult God. I believe this would be more productive than restricting threads.
I would just like to say that I have frequented other Christian forums where many
thoughts are censored. The moderators will close threads merely because they
thought the topic was not interesting, or had been discussed before. Many good subjects were stopped
right in the middle of the discussion.I do not enjoy forums where thoughts are censored.
I no longer even look at these sites.
I have appreciated the openness of Heaven Net.Tim
I understand why Iam4 does not want people like stu and tow here.
But you have to understand that there are many Christians that already have
a lot of the doubts that are presented by these two gentlemen.I think that it can help these people who are weak in faith to hear the rebuttals by
folks like David, T8, WorshipppingJesus and others.
I really restect their biblical knowledge, even if I do not agree with all of their doctrines.People only come to the cross because God drags them. Of course we should continue
to encourage and teach them. But If they are
derailed because of what a few non believers say, then perhaps God wasn't
ready for them yet.Just my ever so humble opinion.
Tim
If one doubts that Jesus is Messiah then they are NOT saved and therefore NOT a “Christian”.
I don't think that the Father is happy that we allow someone to continue to “bash” His Son who gave Himself for us.
Scripture tells us NOT to “continue” to fellowship with such as these.
1Co 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2Jo 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jo 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jo 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.Mar 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
We are to shake the dust off our feet as a “TESTIMONY AGAINST THEM”. Does this sound like we are to continue to entertain their teaching that is SO blatantly against GOD!
Should this site be a spring board so they can go on deceiving those who come here?
Act 13:50 But the Jews stirred up the devout and honourable women, and the chief men of the city, and raised persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them out of their coasts.
Act 13:51 But they shook off the dust of their feet against them, and came unto Iconium.
Act 13:52 And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost.If one wants to hear what these people say then let them stay in the world. Their message can be found anywhere on TV in the movies “IN THE WORLD”.
IS this a body of CHRIST? Then why would one allow cancer!
Sure we are to preach Christ to the non-believer BUT are we to help them spread their message? Only God can save! WE have given our testimony…It's time to shake the dust off our feet!
Amen!
Since this is a Christian board I think some forums should be open to only Christians for posting. There can be other forums open to all. That way only Christians discuss things pertaining the details of their faith without interruption by non-believers.
Quote (kejonn @ Nov. 26 2007,02:53) Since this is a Christian board I think some forums should be open to only Christians for posting. There can be other forums open to all. That way only Christians discuss things pertaining the details of their faith without interruption by non-believers.
Then should we allow cancer only in one arm? Does shake the dust off your feet mean take one of the heathens with you but leave the town?Quote We are to shake the dust off our feet as a “TESTIMONY AGAINST THEM”. Does this sound like we are to continue to entertain their teaching that is SO blatantly against GOD! Again, If one wants to here what heathens have to say let them stay where they are. They have plenty teachers in the world to teach them.
Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 25 2007,10:29) Quote (kejonn @ Nov. 26 2007,02:53) Since this is a Christian board I think some forums should be open to only Christians for posting. There can be other forums open to all. That way only Christians discuss things pertaining the details of their faith without interruption by non-believers.
Then should we allow cancer only in one arm? Does shake the dust off your feet mean take one of the heathens with you but leave the town?Quote We are to shake the dust off our feet as a “TESTIMONY AGAINST THEM”. Does this sound like we are to continue to entertain their teaching that is SO blatantly against GOD!
There are many boards on the net that are for Christians only. Making heaven.net.nz strictly for Christians only would make just another board like those. Why not just join one of those boards if that is what you desire?I tend to think that there are forums that should be for Christians only and forums that are open to all.
After all, when we look at the life of Jesus, he spent quality time with his apostles only, and other times he witnessed to the world and even suffered persecution and ridicule.
In reality the distinction is easy because you can organise who you meet with. In cyberspace these physical constraints do not exist, so I think for that reason that some forums would do better with believers only.
But I am certainly for general forums that are open to all, for witnessing purposes and also non-believers can sharpen you too.
But unbelievers in forums like “Scripture and doctrine” really only dampen the discussion because if they reply at all, it is usually just unbelief that they are espousing and that only gets in the way of furthering any advancement in understanding scripture. Those forums are not about whether scripture is true or not. There are other more appropriate forums for such.
That said, david's suggestion about reminding people to keep to the topics subject would fix this, but as WJ pointed out, that would be a huge effort in moderating in that it would require a moderator to read all the discussions.
t8,
If an unbeliever is not allowed in the Scripture thread, how will he possibly become a Christian? By only being allowed in threads with other non-believer's? This doesn't quite make sense, and possibly I'm misunderstanding you? Will the non-beliver's be able to view the thread but not post? But then what if they have a question? Are they not able to ask a Christian anything? HmmmmI agree with Tim and Kejonn that if some here want an inclusive (or exclusive) club for Christians – there are plenty out there for them to join. What if this site only allowed those who don't believe in the Trinity? Then we would not have fellowship with WJ and other's who are Trinitarian. What a huge loss that would be!
I still stand by my suggesstion to enlarge the rules to include the respect of God and his nature. If non-believer's cannot follow the rules, then after the appropriate warnings received…….they're out! That way, if they are harrassing anyone – they won't be able to do it for long.
To be perfectly honest, how do you determine a “believer” anyway? Some “believe” that Jesus is God – other's do not. Are the ones that believe he is God believer's and the other's non-believer's? Or is it just those who consider themselves “Christians” that would be allowed full posting privileges? I know some folks who by my definition are non-believer's but they consider themselves “Christians.”. Who would decide what being a Christian means? Would there be definition posted and an evaluation form to fill out? You see where I'm going with this.
Besides, it's human nature to surround controversy. It's why we slow down on the Interstate to “look” at the mangled car wreck. It's why we love drama. It's why our 5 O'clock news is filled with murder and mayhem versus good samaritan stories. If we had threads only open to non-believer's…….I bet they would be popular threads (used by non and believer's alike). It would become the place where you would feel free to talk about anything. Kind of like what we enjoy NOW.
I think that not 3 is on the right track.
Non believers can, and should, respect our belief by showing the proper respect for our God even while disagreeing
with our belief. We on the other hand should also show respect for their belief, or non belief as the case
may be, while showing respect for them as fellow human beings.Perhaps that is more than all of us are capable of.
Tim
Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 26 2007,01:57)
Ken you said,Quote If one doubts that Jesus is Messiah then they are NOT saved and therefore NOT a “Christian”. That is true. However what I said was that Christians have many of the same doubts that these gentlemen express. You have to know this is true just by participating, and listening to what people say in this forum. Even Jesus had doubts. If not why did He say, ” Father, why hast thou forsaken me?” He doubted that God was even still with Him.
Quote Scripture tells us NOT to “continue” to fellowship with such as these. Did Jesus not talk to all kinds of sinners? Did he not fellowship with Judas knowing full well what Judas had to do to fullfill his destiny?
Quote If one wants to hear what these people say then let them stay in the world. Their message can be found anywhere on TV in the movies “IN THE WORLD”. True, but then we do not hear the good and clear rebuttal by those on this board that have the knowledge and ability to do so.
Tim
Quote (kejonn @ Nov. 26 2007,07:32) Quote (kenrch @ Nov. 25 2007,10:29) Quote (kejonn @ Nov. 26 2007,02:53) Since this is a Christian board I think some forums should be open to only Christians for posting. There can be other forums open to all. That way only Christians discuss things pertaining the details of their faith without interruption by non-believers.
Then should we allow cancer only in one arm? Does shake the dust off your feet mean take one of the heathens with you but leave the town?Quote We are to shake the dust off our feet as a “TESTIMONY AGAINST THEM”. Does this sound like we are to continue to entertain their teaching that is SO blatantly against GOD!
There are many boards on the net that are for Christians only. Making heaven.net.nz strictly for Christians only would make just another board like those. Why not just join one of those boards if that is what you desire?
How many Christian forums allow discussion about the Trinity?The only belief here would be to believe in God and His son.
Did Jesus continue to argue over and over the gospel? Did Jesus argue that there is a God?
If we are to argue continually with those who's whole purpose is to
convince the weak that there is no God and Jesus is not God's Lamb.Then why did Jesus say to shake the dust off your feet?
2Jo 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
2Jo 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting,
2Jo 1:11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.
Should one come and earnestly seeking truth, searching for God and His kingdom then fine! But is that the case here? The case here is what John and Jesus describe above!
Just as John's hands are clean so are mine!
IHN,
Ken
Are we talking about who’s theories are right/wrong Ken?
It is the motives of the heart that are the force s of iniquityhumpty dumpty'S CANON of theories, hasn't put all the kings horses and all the kings men back together again, only love can do this,Yes we are nothing without Love,
Entreaties Negotiation for the purpose of reaching an agreement, a commitment to endure with a noble mission, desire not to offend, holding respect of all men, meeting them wherever possible
Pro 18:19 A brother offended [is harder to be won] than a strong city: and [their] contentions [are] like the bars of a castle. A man's belly shall be satisfied with the fruit of his mouth; [and] with the increase of his lips shall he be filled.
Pro 18:23 The poor useth in treaties; but the rich answereth roughly
Rich in cyberchase wars, desire to answer roughly, with harsh warnings, Negotiation motives, for the purpose of reaching an agreement only to be the winner. fat Brothers, that by horrendous measures, using enough mud thrown, willing that some may stick, low as. refusing to hear the heart context.Quote That is true. However what I said was that Christians have many of the same doubts that these gentlemen express. You have to know this is true just by participating, and listening to what people say in this forum. Even Jesus had doubts. If not why did He say, ” Father, why hast thou forsaken me?” He doubted that God was even still with Him. You know why? Because HE did! Jesus took on the sins of the world! The Spirit cannot dwell with sin of the world otherwise their would not have been separation or sacrifices needed.
Are all so foolish that you think you are smarter than Satan? Satan knows scripture better than all humans on earth put together. Man is still lower than angels even fallen angels. It will be by your pride you will fall, believing that you are indeed smart and showing your ignorance by not heeding what your Saviour and His Apostles said.
1Co 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
So be it you have chosen not to obey Jesus Nor His WORD.
I shall speak no more!
Quote (charity @ Nov. 26 2007,12:05) Are we talking about who’s theories are right/wrong Ken?
It is the motives of the heart that are the force s of iniquityhumpty dumpty'S CANON of theories, hasn't put all the kings horses and all the kings men back together again, only love can do this,Yes we are nothing without Love,
Entreaties Negotiation for the purpose of reaching an agreement, a commitment to endure with a noble mission, desire not to offend, holding respect of all men, meeting them wherever possible
Pro 18:19 A brother offended [is harder to be won] than a strong city: and [their] contentions [are] like the bars of a castle. A man's belly shall be satisfied with the fruit of his mouth; [and] with the increase of his lips shall he be filled.
Pro 18:23 The poor useth in treaties; but the rich answereth roughly
Rich in cyberchase wars, desire to answer roughly, with harsh warnings, Negotiation motives, for the purpose of reaching an agreement only to be the winner. fat Brothers, that by horrendous measures, using enough mud thrown, willing that some may stick, low as. refusing to hear the heart context.
What does it mean to shake the dust off your feet?What is John saying to do with those who deny Jesus?
AND:
2Jo 1:11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.Who is partaking in his wicked works while they entertain his teachings that John said to:
2Jo 1:10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting,
But it seems most here know better than John and Jesus! HA!
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