Should members be tiled for avoidance?

Participant

I Agree with everything said above execept for this:

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Other than that I agree. But not to go off topic.

May 30, 2011 at 2:20 am#247320

Participant

Hi Mike,

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What scripture was that again?

UM the whole bible duhh

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Lame. The reason something is usually CALLED something is because that something IS the something it is CALLED.

I am CALLED a human being because I AM a human being. Also, Paul goes on to say "for there are gods many and lords many", right? I don't see the word CALLED in that phrase, do you?

Ok so by your beliefs, calling a Dog "bob" means he is human?
Thats my point mike, or the emphasis i was trying to make. Giving something that is not "Jehovah" a title of "God" doesnt make it God Almighty truely.
Actually if you read the scripture i gave you, it does say that. And I again see you ignored the second point that Paul stated that "there is NONE BUT ONE GOD"

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Now if you guys had only ONE little scripture that said Jesus CREATED anything, you'd be well on your way. Let me know when you find that scripture, okay?

Dude, come on, why are you playing these Games, You already Admitted that "God created through Jesus" therefore Jesus created. You cant deny that. according to your own theology, the hands that created the heavens and earth was Jesus's, and who knows how God actually created through Him because it DOENST STATE HOW, which leaves you in a dilema.

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Now you're coming along. Let's talk about Beelzebub, the one Jesus called "Satan", and God called "the god of Ekron". Hmmmmm……………GOD HIMSELF called Satan "the god of Ekron", and was mad that Ahaziah sent to find out from him how his injury would turn out instead of finding it out from the God of Israel. Look what God said to him:
2 Kings 1:3
But the angel of the LORD said to Elijah the Tishbite, “Go up and meet the messengers of the king of Samaria and ask them, ‘Is it because there is no God in Israel that you are going off to consult Baal-Zebub, the god of Ekron?’
See D? God didn't say Beelzebub was NOT a god at all, did He? In fact, he was mad that Ahaziah would blow Him off to go consult a DIFFERENT god.

D, go read the whole chapter of 1 Samuel 28. It was not YHWH who summoned Samuel from the grave to talk to Saul, because YHWH forbid this activity. What does that tell you? It means that other spirits besides God have the power to foretell the future or speak to the dead. God does not want us dealing with these other gods in activities such as this, which is why He forbade us from consulting with spiritists and mediums. It's not because it's "fake hocus pocus" like Istari seems to think, but because it is very real magic that God doesn't, for whatever reason He sees fit, want us to partake in.

I think the wiki notes i left you solves some of your dilema.
and beelzabub seems to mean the god of dung or something like that.
you understand that men created the imaginations of these gods right dude?

like just look up the anime, and all sorts of things we create. These are imaginations and back than human beings thought this was ALL real.

I also saw how you ignored my response about the Egyptians gods being punished. I would have figured it would be common sense to defend lonesome position.

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That fits right in with your "it says CALLED gods, not that they ARE gods" logic.

Actually thats your logic, you seem to think anything that is called God, is a real God, now how senseless is that?

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But it was Samuel who wrote that Saul was the savior that delivered Israel from the hands of the Philistines. Did Samuel think Saul WAS God, since God was "THE only one"?

Of course not, as Superman is also called a savior of Metropolis.
And than came David who kill thousands and thousands more than Saul. come on dude?
My point is that humbly, none of them would call themselves saviors, because there is only one True Savior of them all.

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The belief AND WORSHIP of many gods, despite what Keith has posted. D, do YOU believe that Satan is real? If "YES", then YOU believe IN Satan. And both YHWH and Paul called Satan a god. So if YOU believe that Satan is a real being, then YOU believe in more than one god. Are YOU a polytheist?

Actually No again mike its simply the belief in many gods. which I only believe in one God.

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D, I have never been more proud of you than I am right now!

You have hit the nail right on the head. YES, just because Jesus is called our "one Lord" does NOT mean that all the other lords in the scriptures are "false lords", but that they are not the "true one" or the "Lord OF lords". So it has become crystal clear to me that you actually DO understand the concept that Jesus being called our "ONE Lord" does NOT exclude the existence of other lords, but is a STATEMENT OF EMPHASIS, like I've been saying all along!

Actually im not sure if it matters, but there was a typo, it should have read: "Its not really about them being false lords mike, in the way you think i mean it. the reason I say they are "false" is because they are NOT the source. When I say false, i mean not the True one,

Here is the thing though, human beings actually EXISTed, like DAvid, like Saul, like so many others, BUT these gods DO NOT EXIST. Thats the major difference. For exampple, Pharaoh was conisdered a god bu
t he isnt one, yet he did exist. RA was considred a god of gods, yet ISNT one AND DOESNT EXIST. ITs a big difference between the two.

cant you see that?

So "Go ahead and base YOUR understanding of the scriptures on only some of them if you want to. As for me, I will take them ALL into account when forming my understanding."

deuces <<<<<<<<<THATS MY LINE!

May 30, 2011 at 3:35 am#247324

Blocked

Quote (Istari @ May 29 2011,14:40)

Mike,
What you have done is to so over analysed the word and term 'God' that it has taken on a secondary meaning all of it's own.

Not at all. The term "god" means "one whom we should fear", or "one of might", basically. Some of these ones "of might" just happen to be powerful spirit beings. How can you say that Deborah, the mighty leader of Israel deserves the title "mighty one", but a being like Satan, who is a million times more powerful than Deborah, does not? After all, "god" does not imply good or bad, righteous or wicked – only mighty.

Quote (Istari @ May 29 2011,14:40)

In the beginning there was only one who was GOD.

Then man began creating objects of visual worship which they also called 'God(s)'.

Not exactly. In the beginning there WAS only One who was GOD. But then God created His Son, who is himself a mighty one, or god. And then through that Son, God created many other mighty ones. It was only at sometime AFTER all these other gods existed, of whom YHWH is the God, that He created men. And then some of those men followed some of these angels, and others made up golden calfs and other such nonsense as make believe gods.

You and D seem to think that since some people made up fake gods to worship, that every god mentioned in scripture IS one of these. This is surely not the case, for a fake idol could not perform the signs that the gods of Egypt performed. Get it? There HAD TO BE a powerful being behind these "magic tricks".

And we KNOW that Satan is a very real, very mighty being, and we know that he was the god of Ekron. See? The people of Ekron weren't worshipping some fake idol, but the REAL, LIVE being of Satan. So when they referred to "the god of Ekron", they weren't talking about a man-made idol, were they? They were talking about a REAL mighty one, therefore called a god.

Does that put him on par with God Almighty? Of course not. And just in case anyone thinks that is the case, they need only read Job 1, where Satan's own God told him exactly how far he could and couldn't go with Job. Like I said, I clearly understand what "God OF gods" means. It means that Jehovah is in a class all to Himself, and that He is the God OF the other gods like Satan and Jesus – as scripture clearly bears out.

So Istari, I'm not making up "new meanings" for "god". I'm just understanding what they meant in scripture by calling certain beings "god".

As always, my understanding is based on the scriptures themselves, unlike many people's understandings, which are based on popular belief, what scientists say, or their own imaginations.

mike

May 30, 2011 at 4:06 am#247325

Blocked

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 29 2011,20:20)

UM the whole bible duhh

Well, if the "whole Bible" says it, then you should have no problem at all posting one little scripture that says our God consists of a Father, Son, and Spirit all in one Being, right? Why don't you?

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 29 2011,20:20)

Ok so by your beliefs, calling a Dog "bob" means he is human?

No, my beliefs say that if an animal is CALLED a kangaroo, it usually IS a kangaroo.

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 29 2011,20:20)

And I again see you ignored the second point that Paul stated that "there is NONE BUT ONE GOD"

I didn't ignore it, but covered in the "one Lord" response. If Paul says "There is no God but one", and then says, "there are many gods" and calls Satan the "god of this age", what are we to think? Is Paul confused? Well, once again we can look to the "one Lord" language. By saying we have but "one Lord", did Paul LITERALLY mean there has never been another lord who ever existed? You've already in effect answered, "No, that's NOT what he meant", remember? You've said that there ARE other lords who just don't happen to be the "one true Lord", right? So "one Lord" is not to be taken LITERALLY, but as a statement of emphasis.

Now, take what you've already agreed to about "lord", and apply it to "god", okay?

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 29 2011,20:20)

Dude, come on, why are you playing these Games, You already Admitted that "God created through Jesus" therefore Jesus created.

I've made certain words big in your quote. Read YOUR OWN words and tell me again WHO created?

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 29 2011,20:20)

and who knows how God actually created through Him because it DOENST STATE HOW, which leaves you in a dilema.

The "dilemma" is not mine, for there is plenty of info that tells us EXACTLY who it was that created. Read your own big words again, and tell me WHO created?

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 29 2011,20:20)

It doesn't really matter if it means "the god of poopy-pants" does it? MEN did not create Satan with their imaginations, did they? So once again, it is not I who has the dilemma, but you.

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 29 2011,20:20)

Actually No again mike its simply the belief in many gods. which I only believe in one God.

So you don't believe Jesus and Satan exist? They are both gods who are not THE God.

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 29 2011,20:20)

Here is the thing though, human beings actually EXISTed, like DAvid, like Saul, like so many others, BUT these gods DO NOT EXIST. Thats the major difference.

Ahhh, but Satan DOES exist, right? And Satan was the god of Ekron, according to YHWH Himself. Yet another dilemma for YOU to sort out.

Follow along closely D. Satan IS a real, live being. Satan IS the one who was the god of Ekron. The people of Ekron therefore were NOT worshipping a man-made idol, but the REAL, LIVE BEING OF SATAN. So this particular god DID EXIST. What will you do about that? Will you too start to base your understanding around the actual words of the scriptures like I do? Or will you continue to plug your ears and scream, "There is only ONE god! There is only ONE god!"?

I can say deuces if I want. Don't forget that YOU are the lower case g around here.

mike

May 31, 2011 at 6:48 am#247402

kerwin

Participant

Mike,

I am unfamiliar with Common Greek and my source to understand it does not instruct me whether a word is singular or plural. I do know that Beelzebub is the Lord of the House of either accusers or the Accuser. In either case it seems reasonable to conclude that would make him the prime accuser or Satan. Revelations 9:11 calls the King of demons both Abaddon (Hebrew) and Apollyon (Greek). If you translate those two names to English they become Destroyer.

May 31, 2011 at 8:04 am#247413

Participant

Hi Mike,

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Well, if the "whole Bible" says it, then you should have no problem at all posting one little scripture that says our God consists of a Father, Son, and Spirit all in one Being, right? Why don't you?

I have many times Mike, is it your amnesia kickin in again? I mean it seems like you put yourself in a corner screamin to your self "Jesus is not God, JESUS is NOT GOD" lol

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No, my beliefs say that if an animal is CALLED a kangaroo, it usually IS a kangaroo.

Actually thats not the case at all. Your confusing yourself, Your statements reflect a scenario that just becasue KJ calls himself Kangaroo Jack means he must be a animal, when we alll know that he is really just a human being. Just being called something isnt enough to prove that you are fullfilling the title that has been bestowed upon. Anyone can dress up like a kangaroo, and try to act like a kangaroo, but in reality they are human and simply NOT a kangaroo. But in nature, if one is born a kangaroo, scratches and eats and hops like a kanagroo because naturally thats what it does as in animal, than it must be a kangaroo.

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You've already in effect answered, "No, that's NOT what he meant", remember? You've said that there ARE other lords who just don't happen to be the "one true Lord", right? So "one Lord" is not to be taken LITERALLY, but as a statement of emphasis.

No, Mike its more than a statement of emphasis, its HOT or COLD. in other words if the True Lord is reprsented by HOT, than its HOT. and whatever is NOT HOT, is not the true Lord, the other lords are cold, and though they are called lords, and do the humanistic role as a Lord, they are not the the TRUE LORD. the True Lord, the one and only Lord is in a category all to himself.

Thats my point, which I apply the SAME way to god.
You DIDNT understand what I clarified for you and are twisting my words.

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Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 29 2011,20:20)

Dude, come on, why are you playing these Games, You already Admitted that"God created through Jesus" therefore Jesus created.

I've made certain words big in your quote. Read YOUR OWN words and tell me again WHO created?

Again your misrepresenting what I stated: read the underline.
Im talking about what YOU believe. I believe for God to be Jesus. so your confused.

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Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 29 2011,20:20)

and who knows how God actually created through Him because it DOENST STATE HOW, which leaves you in a dilema.

The "dilemma" is not mine, for there is plenty of info that tells us EXACTLY who it was that created. Read your own big words again, and tell me WHO created?

Again according to your theology, of course I do not believe it that way so. Thats why its YOUR diliema. read what i stateed again becasue your confused. Jesus created bro, you cant deny it, why you denying the truth?
Do you care to explain how exactly God created the world through Jesus according to your theology?
Did God use strings on Jesus or somethhign? gave him a order? whispered in his ear? controled him? and give me a biblcal verse about it while your at it.

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MEN did not create Satan with their imaginations, did they? So once again, it is not I who has the dilemma, but you.

naa the dilema is for you bro to solve, because Satan is meant to Deceive, twist, and Destory, So why would you assume or believe a powerful decetiful being calling himself god? He is the FAther of lies? the Counterfeit of God? but i forgot you believe he is one of many gods? whoops.

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So you don't believe Jesus and Satan exist? They are both gods who are not THE God.

Satan exists as the accuser and Jesus is God with us, the savior of this world. Again your confused.

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Ahhh, but Satan DOES exist, right? And Satan was the god of Ekron, according to YHWH Himself. Yet another dilemma for YOU to sort out.

They didnt Exist in the way you THIINK them to exist. Satan is meant to confuse and distort the truth, that there is only but ONE GOD. So why would you take it literally that other gods exist as beings amoung many gods, which is quite frankly nonsense.

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Lol lame.
Check this out:
Biblical References

Ekron is mentioned in Joshua 13:2-3

"This is the land that still remains: all the regions of the Philistines and all those of the Geshurites from Shihor, which is east of Egypt, northward to the boundary of Ekron.&qu
ot;

Joshua 13:13 counts it the border city of the Philistines and seat of one of the five Philistine city lords, and Joshua 15:11 mentions Ekron's satellite towns and villages. The city was reassigned afterwards to the tribe of Dan (Joshua 19:43), but came again into the full possession of the Philistines. It was the last place to which the Philistines carried the Ark of the Covenant before they sent it back to Israel (1 Samuel 5:10 and 1 Samuel 6:1-8).

There was a noted sanctuary of Baal at Ekron. The Baal who was worshipped was called Baal Zebub, which some scholars connect with Beelzebub, known from the Hebrew Bible (2 Kings 1:2):

Ahaziah fell through the lattice in his upper chamber at Samaria and was injured. So he sent messengers whom he instructed: "Go inquire of Baal-zebub, the god of Ekron, whether I shall recover from this injury." (JPS translation)

Remember Baal? The same Baal worshippers thought He was real as you did, But like Isaiah Im telling you there is no Other God but the one, for he is the true one.
And if you dont believe me, Go and pray and cut your wrists and see that NOTHING will happen.

Isaiah already proven that the True God is the one that lit up the alter.
He already proved the baal worshiperes false dude.

Deuces, <<<<<I know you just desire to be young and as clever as I am, but dude your too old for that stick to your generation.

May 31, 2011 at 4:23 pm#247427

Participant

Good Post Dennison!

June 1, 2011 at 12:11 am#247466

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ May 31 2011,00:48)

Mike,

Hi Kerwin,

Use This Site to find out the singular and plural words. Type in your scripture, and then hit the big blue Greek button. It will tell you the Strong number of each word, and a quick definition if you hold the cursor over that number. (If you click on the number, it will show you much more about that word.) But if you hold the cursor over the letters and numbers to the right of the Strong number, it will spell out what those letters and numbers mean, such as "first person singular masculine", etc.

(Here's the same link after I clicked on the Greek button.)

Kerwin, I think you miss my whole point, which is: The people of Ekron worshipped a GOD called Baalzebub. We later find out that this GOD is none other than Satan. Both Paul and Jehovah called him a god, and we know he is a living being.

I'm trying to show that all "gods" mentioned were not man-made idols. Some of them were spirit beings that God created, who had set themselves up as gods to certain nations. Get it? They were real gods, and people went to them to request info about the future, as Ahaziah was doing.

Also, look at my last post to Keith, and tell me what "god" brought wrath on Israel after receiving a sacrifice.

peace to you, and I hope you like that Biblos site. I love it – loads of info there.

mike

June 1, 2011 at 12:22 am#247467

Blocked

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 31 2011,10:23)

Good Post Dennison!

Really Keith? Let's see how "good" it is, shall we?

June 1, 2011 at 1:19 am#247469

Blocked

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 31 2011,02:04)

Quote (mikeboll @ 64)

Well, if the "whole Bible" says it, then you should have no problem at all posting one little scripture that says our God consists of a Father, Son, and Spirit all in one Being, right? Why don't you?

I have many times Mike,

I'm waiting for the scripture, D. Not a bunch of excuses WHY you can't post one. And post just ONE for now, okay? Then I'll address it and you can show me exactly how it says "God consists of a Father, Son, and Spirit all in one Being", okay?

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 31 2011,02:04)

the True Lord is reprsented by HOT, than its HOT. and whatever is NOT HOT, is not the true Lord, the other lords are cold, and though they are called lords, and do the humanistic role as a Lord, they are not the the TRUE LORD.

Agreed, but they are STILL lords, nonetheless, right? Therefore "one Lord" is NOT literal, right? "One Lord" means "in a category all to himself" – set aside FROM the OTHER lords, right? And that's EXACTLY what I've been saying from the outset.

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 31 2011,02:04)

Thats my point, which I apply the SAME way to god.

Well good then, we agree. There ARE other gods, but our "one God" is "in a category all to Himself" – set aside FROM the OTHER gods, right? So Paul WASN'T lying when he said there are gods many and lords many? He was emphasizing Jehovah and Jesus to set them in categories all to themselves, – aside from the other gods and lords. Phew! What a relief! For a minute there, you almost had me convinced that Paul was either confused or a liar.

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 31 2011,02:04)

Again according to your theology, of course I do not believe it that way so. Thats why its YOUR diliema.

As long as "my way" follows what the scriptures teach, whether or not YOU believe it is no "dilemma" for me. I am not your judge.

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 31 2011,02:04)

Jesus created bro, you cant deny it, why you denying the truth?

Not only can I deny it, but God does too. Why don't you show me that scripture where it says "Jesus CREATED" this or that? And then let's compare that scripture with the prayer in Acts 4 to see which SCRIPTURE is a LIE, shall we?

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 31 2011,02:04)

Do you care to explain how exactly God created the world through Jesus according to your theology?

Is that REALLY your argument, D? :laugh: I'll tell you what: Why don't YOU tell me EXACTLY HOW Jesus created the heavens? If YOU can't tell me the EXACT METHOD he used, then it must be false, right? See? That's what YOU'RE saying to me. You're trying to say that if I personally don't know EXACTLY HOW God created the heavens through Jesus, then that must not be what happened. It is a stupid line of reasoning, D. I don't know EXACTLY HOW it was all done, because scripture does not tell us. But I DO know that all things were created BY God alone, THROUGH Jesus, because scripture DOES tell us that part.

So I don't care if you translate "dia" as "through", "by", "from", "of", or any other word you like. The end result is the same. It always ends up with GOD creating alone, and using Jesus in some unspecified capacity to do so.

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 31 2011,02:04)

Quote (mikeboll @ 64)

MEN did not create Satan with their imaginations, did they? So once again, it is not I who has the dilemma, but you.

naa the dilema is for you bro to solve, because Satan is meant to Deceive, twist, and Destory, So why would you assume or believe a powerful decetiful being calling himself god?

It would be one thing if Satan ever called himself a god in scripture. But when God Himself and Paul call him a god, then your argument is no longer with me or Satan, but with God and Paul and scripture. Argue with them all you want – I've made my point CRYSTAL CLEAR by using the scriptures themselves.

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 31 2011,02:04)

Satan is meant to confuse and distort the truth, that there is only but ONE GOD. So why would you take it literally that other gods exist as beings amoung many gods, which is quite frankly nonsense.

Again, it was not Satan who called himself a god, but Jehovah and Paul. And what you dismiss as nonsense is the truth from the scriptures themselves. Again, your argument is with Jehovah, Paul and the scrip
tures, not me.

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 31 2011,02:04)

Remember Baal? The same Baal worshippers thought He was real as you did,

Oh, I see. YOU think "Baal" is one single person? "Ba'al" means "Lord", D. Ba'al Zebub means "Lord Zebub". And according to Jehovah, Lord Zebub was the god of the city of Ekron. And according to Jesus, this same Lord Zebub is Satan, the Prince of the demons. And according to Paul, this same Lord Zebub is the god of this age/world.

D, I'm pretty much done with this conversation with you. There comes a point when I can go no further with someone. You've been shown the scriptures that back everything I claim. You've already admitted that "one Lord" didn't exclude the literal existence of other lords, but instead set Jesus on a higher plane than any of them – like HOT versus COLD. It is the same with "one God", as I've scripturally shown you. You even admit this out of one side of your mouth while the other side is STILL screaming, "THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD, PERIOD!"

You've made it clear that your agenda is fueled by your desire to say, "Well, if there LITERALLY is only ONE God, and Jesus IS a god, he must BE that one God." This is also what fuels Keith, although I've heard no response from him to the "Beelzebub" point, the "wrath of the other god" point, or the "gods of Egypt who performed great signs and wonders" point.

Anyway, knowing that you have ulterior motives, I will bail from this discussion. You will never concede, even when staring at the scriptural facts of the matter, and even after acknowledging that "one Lord" doesn't mean he's literally the only lord that ever existed.

You have proven that you KNOW the facts that I've shown you. So for me to keep answering your word games and denials, (that you for some reason think will keep those facts from "becoming real"), is a waste of my time.

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 31 2011,02:04)

Deuces, <<<<<I know you just desire to be young and as clever as I am, but dude your too old for that stick to your generation.

Fair enough.

Groovy and psychedelic,
mike

June 1, 2011 at 5:12 am#247491

kerwin

Participant

Mike Boll.

Those that receive the Spirit of God are called gods since they are “a royal priesthood” just as Peter teaches us in his first letter, 1 Peter 2:9. That is also why believers are instructed that through the gospel they might become partakers of the divine nature, 2 Peter 1:4.

As you can also see God told the Hebrew people that they were as holy people made high , in praise, and in name, and in honor above all other nations, Deuteronomy 26:18-19.

As for those called false gods working miracles it is written that God will allow demons perform miracles through those that call other to follow these false gods in order to test the hearts of their hearers, Deuteronomy 13:1-3.

REFERENCES

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1 Peter 2:9 (King James Version)

9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

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2 Peter 1:4 (King James Version)

4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

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Deuteronomy 13 (King James Version)

1If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,

2And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;

3Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

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Deuteronomy 26 (King James Version)

18And the LORD hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people, as he hath promised thee, and that thou shouldest keep all his commandments;

19And to make thee high above all nations which he hath made, in praise, and in name, and in honour; and that thou mayest be an holy people unto the LORD thy God, as he hath spoken.

June 1, 2011 at 7:39 am#247502

Participant

Hi Mike,

Quote

I'm waiting for the scripture, D. Not a bunch of excuses WHY you can't post one.

And post just ONE for now, okay? Then I'll address it and you can show me exactly how it says "God consists of a Father, Son, and Spirit all in one Being", okay?

Lame dude, we have disucussed this already im not going to deviate from the subject just to feed your "ever changing" the subjects on hand.
I think I would go along with what Kieth once argued with Matthew 28. I also think in the "Emmanuel" thread i have posted other scriptures and Kieth posted one that i Liked as well.

Quote

This is where you dont make any sense dude and contradict your self.
Lets call the True Lord HOT and the other lords Cold.
So I were to say that there is only one HOT, but we know of many cold ones, how would you interpret this?
Simply there is only one HOT, and many Colds, and thats it.
So its literally only ONE LORD.
So how can you STATE that you agree that the True Lord is a seperate Category, but its not literal? dude that doesnt make any sense at all.
So thats not "EXACTLY what you've been saying from the outset.

Quote

I never said that Paul was lying, and we obviously dont agree.
But of course you ignored the context of what the scriptures state yet again.
Paul first premise is that Idols are nothing,
that there is none but one God,
and that there are many called Gods and lords, (which are many)
and than emphasises, how the only God to us, is that ONE true God, who is alone, and our ONLY lord.

So dude your are confused.

Quote

As long as "my way" follows what the scriptures teach, whether or not YOU believe it is no "dilemma" for me. I am not your judge.

If "your way" the right, way than you should judge righteously, if your going to judge at all. God is beyond the scriptures, because he is the author of it.

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Actaully thats not true. God actualy disagrees with what you think of him. Do it, im going to tell you the same thing either way, again you have a dilema in your theology.

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Is that REALLY your argument, D?

I'll tell you what: Why don't YOU tell me EXACTLY HOW Jesus created the heavens? If YOU can't tell me the EXACT METHOD he used, then it must be false, right?

See? That's what YOU'RE saying to me. You're trying to say that if I personally don't know EXACTLY HOW God created the heavens through Jesus, then that must not be what happened. It is a stupid line of reasoning, D. I don't know EXACTLY HOW it was all done, because scripture does not tell us. But I DO know that all things were createdBY God alone, THROUGH Jesus, because scripture DOES tell us that part.

Lol!!!
I love how you contradicted yourself!
Look at alll the balony you just stated.
Its so lame. Actualy my line of reasoning is to cause you to doubt and open a line of reasoning because you sincerely "do not know" as you admitted.
Because you DO NOT KNOW, than you cannot UNDERSTAND how exactly God used Jesus to create the Universe as we know it.
Than because you DO NOT KNOW, than you must accept the possiblity that perhaps that Jesus is God, and other possibilities because you DO NOT KNOW.

So you can't dismiss it, but instead you must EMBRACE it.
There isnt any proof where things are NOT STATED, of course.

Lol and how can you state that God created alone, and than state that it was done through Jesus, and still believe in the crap you believe?
Its a complete contradiction, and a fallacy all in one sentence.

If I created the house through the work of builders than WE created it.
So if you believe them to be seperate beings, than you must accept that Jesus created, because it does however give credit to Him.
Now if you believe in scripture, and that it states that "God created alone" than you have a dilema in your hands yet again.

But you CANT
speculate because scripture doesnt state how God suppously used Jesus to create everthing through.

Quote

at the moment, that isnt even the issue, the issue is either scriptures contradict itself according to your theology or you have to twist it to fit your view.

Quote

And i made my points clear that Isaiah even called baal a god, too but latter PROVED that he wasnt.
Did you not understand what I stated about the whole "kj" example or should i repeat it?

And in Conclusion mike,
Its ok you need to bail out because you simply want to ignore scripture and believe in nonsesne.
Its cool, sometimes when you cant handle the truth, you simply just cant handle it.

Hasta Luego!

June 1, 2011 at 3:16 pm#247531

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 31 2011,19:22)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 31 2011,10:23)

Good Post Dennison!

Really Keith? Let's see how "good" it is, shall we?

Hi Dennison

It is still a good post!

June 1, 2011 at 3:36 pm#247532

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 31 2011,20:19)

But I DO know that all things were created BY God alone, THROUGH Jesus, because scripture DOES tell us that part.

Hi All

Does anyone see the contradiction?

I would like to see him teach this in a Sunday school class.

Does Mike know what the word "Alone" means?

Unless Jesus is One with the Father as God then the scripture contradicts itself.

And,

“You founded the earth in the beginning, Lord, and the heavens are the works of your hands. They will perish, but you continue. And they will all grow old like a garment, and like a robe you will fold them up and like a garment they will be changed, but you are the same and your years will never run out.” Heb 1:10-12 NET

NET Notes:

You founded the earth…your years will never run out. In its original setting Ps 102:25-27 refers to the work of God in creation, but here in Hebrews 1:10-12 the writer employs it in reference to Christ, the Lord, making a strong argument for the essential deity of the Son.

Blessings Keith

June 1, 2011 at 4:05 pm#247535

terraricca

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 02 2011,09:36)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 31 2011,20:19)

But I DO know that all things were created BY God alone, THROUGH Jesus, because scripture DOES tell us that part.

Hi All

Does anyone see the contradiction?

I would like to see him teach this in a Sunday school class.

Does Mike know what the word "Alone" mean?

Unless Jesus is One with the Father as God then the scripture contradicts itself.

And,

NET Notes:

Blessings Keith

WJ and D

why is it that you do not understand that God has a created being and called him his son and use him to create administrate a total project that is unfolding as the ages passes,
did you not read in scriptures that men can not see ,meet,touch God the father and live,

you forgot to ask yourself can the God that created the universe be lower in power and brightness than the thing he created,no he is not.

for this reason and the love he shares with all his creation,

he create a being the first and make him known to us as his son and use the lower creation to create yet a lower creation and so on,untill men and animal and microbes are created,

so all is created from the very big to the very small things that the eyes can nor see so big and the very small that the eyes can not see it ,

his the president in a country does all things? he does bearly nothing than approve the orders,so

all comes to effect in and with Gods will.not the son or anybody else.

and Mike do not contradict himself it is you ho do not understand God will.

Pierre

June 1, 2011 at 7:14 pm#247564

Participant

Peirre

What does "Alone", "By himself" mean to you?

June 1, 2011 at 7:43 pm#247567

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ June 01 2011,11:05)

WJ and D

why is it that you do not understand that God has a created being and called him his son and use him to create administrate a total project that is unfolding as the ages passes,….

Peirre

Why do you assume Jesus was a created being since there are no scriptures that support that and infact the truth is…

Nothing was created that did not have its existence without Jesus..

All things came into being through Him, and "APART FROM HIM NOTHING CAME INTO BEING THAT HAS COME INTO BEING. John 1:3

Apart from Jesus"NOTHING CAME INTO BEING THAT HAS COME INTO BEING"

And we know he didn't create himself so he is not included in the every thing else that came into being by him!

To you guys simple words like "alone", "only", and "nothing do not mean what they say.

June 1, 2011 at 8:11 pm#247575

terraricca

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 02 2011,13:43)

Quote (terraricca @ June 01 2011,11:05)

WJ and D

why is it that you do not understand that God has a created being and called him his son and use him to create administrate a total project that is unfolding as the ages passes,….

Peirre

Why do you assume Jesus was a created being since there are no scriptures that support that and infact the truth is…

Nothing was created that did not have its existence without Jesus..

All things came into being through Him, and "APART FROM HIM NOTHING CAME INTO BEING THAT HAS COME INTO BEING. John 1:3

Apart from Jesus"NOTHING CAME INTO BEING THAT HAS COME INTO BEING"

And we know he didn't create himself so he is not included in the every thing else that came into being by him!

To you guys simple words like "alone", "only", and "nothing do not mean what they say.

Quote

Peirre

What does "Alone", "By himself" mean to you?

read the scripture very slowly and see what it says nothing was created without Jesus this is absolutely true ,Jesus was created by the father .

was GOD alone when he decided to create yes or no;YES
so when he start he already knew what will be ,yes or no? YES.

so now how create all things God ;YES<YES<YES,alone=YES,YES.

did anyone give councel to God how to create and what to create? NO,NO,NO

did God pick the way to go about creation ? YES,YES.

who's will is it in or to create ?God ? YES,YES,YES

who can have a claim to do any creation ?no one not even Jesus.participate in creation,YES,being part of it ,YES.

so what is your beef?

Pierre

June 1, 2011 at 8:22 pm#247576