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Hi Bo,
You seem like a nice guy. May I ask what your reason for coming to HN is? Are you trying to teach us that all true Muslims are true Christians too? Are you here to convert us to the Muslim faith. What is your bottom line for being here?Blessings,
KathiQuote (Lightenup @ Nov. 13 2009,13:02) Hi Bo,
You seem like a nice guy. May I ask what your reason for coming to HN is? Are you trying to teach us that all true Muslims are true Christians too? Are you here to convert us to the Muslim faith. What is your bottom line for being here?Blessings,
Kathi
It is Heaven.net what a beautiful unbiased name and that is what attracted me to the site initially it is one of the most honest and diverse sites that I have ever joined and I have joined many.Most forums are not truly open to learning or studying scripture ofr the knowledge of God they are almost always just preaching to the choir. If They stand for the trinity you will get banned for challenging that belief if they stand against the trinity you will be banned for challenging that belief if they say Chist is God you will be banned for challenging that belief if they say Christ is not God you will be banned for that belief they are truly not open forums any more than how Jesus was treated in that Forum of Society when he challenged their beliefs
Jesus had no problem answering the questions of others but those against him failed to have the same integrity in their own belief and their insecurity led to the desire to eliminate.
We stand because of the TRUTH
I have seen on many sites blackmail and threats to ban a member if he does not conform and often it leads to the member trying to conform rather than be cast out, this is evil.
If a person is falsely speaking about God then may God rebuke him.
(4) Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #256)Hi:
Quote Gal 1:6 ¶ I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (t8 @ Nov. 12 2009,20:56) Or would it be better to have another category for other faiths including the Muslim faith? This category is called Believers Place and is for believers, i.e., those who believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God and the messiah.
I agree that a muslim can raise good and challenging questions and the behaviour of the member has been good in the sense that he hasn't broken any board rules (that I am aware of, or can remember).
In all honesty this forum is my favorite!I personally take a stand against ‘any’ censorship as I faced censorship myself on other forums (I currently post on nine of them).
I have been kicked off of one for giving too much information too fast. Another because the administrator has said that “Gematria” is occult practices.
And I even quit one because I refuse ‘to kiss the pinky ring’. That means to bow down to those in fake authority over others; so I personally had my share of knowing censorship issues.Out of my zeal for honesty I have even been issued a warning from here. But I rightly deserved it.
In my humble opinion censorship should only be done based on a person’s actions twords another, not on the content of their speech.Our country has what is called “freedom of speech”, and what I have seen so far hear
has been the same. Most people I have been in contact here are the more mature Christians,
able to handle themselves in any debate situation, and when they fall short another
(in my opinion by the will of God) ‘takes up chase’ or comes to their defense!I have sent RancherForChrist here and you guys (in my opinion) have very done well so far
helping to strip ‘religious dogmas’ from the less mature Christians! I now have jumped into the debate with “BD”,
and I believe have done very well so far. The thread is called “My eye has been opened Answer to if Jesus is God”. Check out how I have done so far.I use to watch “Mosaic News” on TV broadcasts from around the world, such as “Al, Arabia” in Iran, “Al Jezera” in Jordan and others.
I’m also somewhat familiar with what’s in ‘the Quran’. I have also written a free e-book (along with threads I have started)
documenting the very proof of God’s existence; so I don’t believe either of these two points should be a concern here! But it is not my decision to make.Gen 2:16-17 “And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, OF EVERY TREE OF THE GARDEN THOU MAYEST FREELY EAT:
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil thou shalt not eat of it (which I believe is Satan, which has intruded in each and everybody’s individual’s mind borne on planet Earth):
for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” But God has also provided us the means to sweep him out of our minds. (Romans 12:2 / Eph.4:23)I know that is why (a sign of maturity) you have asked for everybody’s input in these matters,
with everybody’s input here I know you will be able to know what our “GOD” (YHVH) wants you to do.
I believe you will make the right choice, because HE works inside you as well as inside all us!GOD Bless,
Ed JPS. I have posted this same response on both threads.
Having one segment reserved for believers where we can discuss interpretation of scriptures without having to defend it all the time, adds a depth to the forum. This is not censorship, as an unbelievers wanting to participate in a topic can simply start a new thread in the open area and anyone that wants to can join in, but those of us that may want to keep it to scriptures only, are free to do so.
My opinion – Wm
t8,
I enjoy this site and have come here to discuss the Bible and Christianity but with only one muslim on here now I am needing to consider the Qur'an for a thoughtful response MANY times so it spreads my time thinner. I think that would become a very common situation if this forum drew several Muslims. I don't mind discussing with a Muslim but I would rather stick to the Bible and not have to always read the Qur'an verses to be able to respond. Maybe the verses from the Qur'an can be limited to a separate section for those who wanted to address it. So, I think the Believer's section should be renamed the Christian Believer's section and be about the Bible where the members challenge each other with the Bible and not other religion's books; and then another section about the Bible vs. the books from other religions maybe called "the Christian/non-Christian section." I think it is good to know about other religions and what they believe so don't get me wrong. I also think it is good to welcome others of another faith.I like Bo and would like to discuss the Bible with him from now on without the Qur'an showing up unless I wanted to. Then I could go to the Christian/Non-Christian section. Like I said, a separate thread can be made for that if others feel that to be necessary. Heaven Net is a Christian message board, not a Muslim/Christian message board so the overall portion of it should be about Christian topics with only those who consider themselves Christians posting in the "Christian's section." A "Christian/non-Christian" section should be for Christians and those of other faiths and that would be a good spot for those other faith's books to be discussed. I am not open to a Muslim only section here though or a Jews only section for instance.
It's your call t8. I'll pray for your decision. I appreciate you!
Blessings,
KathiWilliam, funny how I said the same type of thing without knowing what you posted since I was in the process of writing and didn't see your post until after I submitted mine. Kool!
Quote (942767 @ Nov. 13 2009,13:40) Hi: Quote Gal 1:6 ¶ I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Love in Christ,
Marty
The scriptures you pointed out are pertaining to Paul preaching to the gentiles which was Pauls calling and was called into question. Now may God bless you with thsi understanding:Galatians 1:1-17 (King James Version)
Galatians 1
1Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)2And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
3Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
5To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
6I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
This is Paul defending the Gospel as was given to him pertaining preaching to the heathens because he was no approved by Peter and the other disciples to preach what he was preaching and if Paul is right here your refusing or willfullness to not share the word of God with me or anyone else is PREACHING ANOTHER GOSPEL
We must take great care when finding one liners that tantalize we should read and understand the context otherwise we make the Gospel say what we want and not what it truly pertains to.
We all know that there was a conflict between Paul and the disciples he was not a disciple to them and they had many disagreements so this is who and what Paul is pertaining to.
Marty you must have all this well grounded before you dissemenate knowledge that is inaccurate. I hope this post is a blessing to you because I have given you the exact meaning of the text (so help me God)
God bless you!
Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 13 2009,15:33) Quote (942767 @ Nov. 13 2009,13:40) Hi: Quote Gal 1:6 ¶ I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Love in Christ,
Marty
The scriptures you pointed out are pertaining to Paul preaching to the gentiles which was Pauls calling and was called into question. Now may God bless you with thsi understanding:Galatians 1:1-17 (King James Version)
Galatians 1
1Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)2And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
3Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
5To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
6I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
11But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
13For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:
14And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
This is Paul defending the Gospel as was given to him pertaining preaching to the heathens because he was no approved by Peter and the other disciples to preach what he was preaching and if Paul is right here your refusing or willfullness to not share the word of God with me or anyone else is PREACHING ANOTHER GOSPEL
We must take great care when finding one liners that tantalize we should read and understand the context otherwise we make the Gospel say what we want and not what it truly pertains to.
We all know that there was a conflict between Paul and the disciples he was not a disciple to them and they had many disagreements so this is who and what Paul is pertaining to.
Marty you must have all this well grounded before you dissemenate knowledge that is inaccurate. I hope this post is a blessing to you because I have given you the exact meaning of the text (so help me God)
God bless you!
No, BD:I have answered your questions freely, but once I have done that and you insist that Jesus is not the "Only begotten Son of God" and you deny that he was crucified and that he was resurrected from the dead, and so, if you do not believe there is nothing more that I can do but pray that God will somehow open your eyes to the truth.
Also, you keep denying that the Apostle Paul was sent by God.
Love in Christ,
MartyWhy wouldn't the easiest thing to do is for someone not interested in what a poster says can simply not read or respond to their posts, My belief in The Quran came through my belief in Christianity so I am a follower of Christ and I submit to the will of God and that is what being a Muslim means submitting as Christ did.
I pray that this site doesn't fall into the same trap as others have. Heaven.net Those who do the Will of the Father but not everyone who says " I am a Christian shall be saved"
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 13 2009,05:39) A better question might be "how many would object to a muslim debating and teaching about scripture/the bible".
For everything else in life, it doesn't matter who. We are in the world, but not of it.Kind of like saying, should a boy be allowed to join the Girl Guides or a Christian teaching as an authority on the koran.
I notice that Paul went into the Jewish synagogues and discussed scripture with those who did not follow the Anointed One.I should point out that no one is censored from posting in this board. From the beginning, this board has had the following rule:
"No pushing doctrines that are not related to the topic. (Pushing them in an appropriate topic is OK.)"As an extension of this "Believers Place" was set up to allow topics of a scriptural and biblical nature to thrive rather than be bogged down by other stuff. Outside that area are other forums where all can post and interact.
The other day I went to a discussion where a new member was asking a question, and a response came back from the Koran. Maybe I am mixing this up a bit, but I definitely saw text/s from the Koran being cited. I didn't think this was very consistent especially considering the name "Believers Place".
Having the topics organised is what makes them more valuable and easier to find. If we open up everything to everything, then it sort of ends up in a sort of chaos or just a bunch of chat rooms. What is suppose to be accomplished is real progress on subjects and the reason for sticking to the topic and having the right people contributing rather than people steering it away toward their agendas. Agendas are OK, if you start the topic on that agenda.
That is what I think.
What is a believer?
Sure many believe in God or a god.But a believer in the New Testament is a learner, pupil, disciple of Christ. Jesus also built his Church on the truth of who he is.
Matthew 16:16-18
16 Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ,the Son of the living God."17 Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
A believer/pupil/disciple of Christ believes that Jesus is the Christ and the son of God. That is the faith and foundation of the Church.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 13 2009,12:21) I should point out that no one is censored from posting in this board. From the beginning, this board has had the following rule:
"No pushing doctrines that are not related to the topic. (Pushing them in an appropriate topic is OK.)"As an extension of this "Believers Place" was set up to allow topics of a scriptural and biblical nature to thrive rather than be dogged down by other stuff. Outside that area are other forums where all can post and interact.
The other day I went to a discussion where a new member was asking a question, and a response came back from the Koran. Maybe I am mixing this up a bit, but I definitely saw text/s from the Koran being cited. I didn't think this was very consistent especially considering the name "Believers Place".
Having the topics organised is what makes them more valuable and easier to find. If we open up everything to everything, then it sort of ends up in a sort of chaos or just a bunch of chat rooms. What is suppose to be accomplished is real progress on subjects and the reason for sticking to the topic and having the right people contributing rather than people steering it away toward their agendas. Agendas are OK, if you start the topic on that agenda.
That is what I think.
I assume you defined what "Believer" is.When the Koran is quoted inappropriately and in the wrong area then apply discipline as you see fit. I believe a gentle reminder is preference. It may take more in some cases which I am glad I do not have to deal with.
I expect the same if the Catholic Catechism, Alan G. White's books, or other sectarian documents are used in an inappropriate way.
I appreciate your service in enforcing the rules of the forums.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 13 2009,17:21) I should point out that no one is censored from posting in this board. From the beginning, this board has had the following rule:
"No pushing doctrines that are not related to the topic. (Pushing them in an appropriate topic is OK.)"As an extension of this "Believers Place" was set up to allow topics of a scriptural and biblical nature to thrive rather than be dogged down by other stuff. Outside that area are other forums where all can post and interact.
The other day I went to a discussion where a new member was asking a question, and a response came back from the Koran. Maybe I am mixing this up a bit, but I definitely saw text/s from the Koran being cited. I didn't think this was very consistent especially considering the name "Believers Place".
Having the topics organised is what makes them more valuable and easier to find. If we open up everything to everything, then it sort of ends up in a sort of chaos or just a bunch of chat rooms. What is suppose to be accomplished is real progress on subjects and the reason for sticking to the topic and having the right people contributing rather than people steering it away toward their agendas. Agendas are OK, if you start the topic on that agenda.
That is what I think.
t8 I agree with that. I also was wondering since kejonn was banned from posting in the Believers section because He did not think Jesus was the Messiah. But our Muslim here does, is there a reason why?
Peace and Love IreneQuote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 12 2009,23:33) This is Paul defending the Gospel as was given to him pertaining preaching to the heathens because he was no approved by Peter and the other disciples to preach what he was preaching and if Paul is right here your refusing or willfullness to not share the word of God with me or anyone else is PREACHING ANOTHER GOSPEL
But what was the gospel preached and shared to all by Paul?Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you "the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; "By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you", unless ye have believed in vain. "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures": 1 Cor 15:1-4
It has been shared with you many times that Jesus was crucified and died for our sins and rose from the dead and you claiming to be a Christian have denied these truths therefore denying the Gospel of Paul which is the Gospel of God!
By your own testimony you are not a Christian but a Muslim based on these facts!
So I ask you again, do you believe Jesus died on a cross for our sins, and was he buried, and did he rise from the dead?
WJ
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 13 2009,17:36) I assume you defined what "Believer" is.
A believer is defined not by me but in scripture. The word is sometimes translated as saint and disciple.You can read in scripture what they believed and they all believed that Jesus was the son of God and the Christ.
Take the Pharisees for example. They believed in the existence of YHWH, but they didn't believe that Jesus was the Christ and the son of God. They are not called Believers, Saints, or Disciples, although some converted.
The Pharisees believed that Jesus is not the son of God and the Koran echoes the same sentiment.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 10 2009,20:04) Hi ED,
God chose by His sovereign choice to include some of evil in His guestlist for His son's wedding.
Shaming the selfrighteous by showing none is really better than any other.I’d like to reiterate a comment made by Nick Hassan.
(understanding Revelation page 8)
Please read his quote.God bless
Ed JQuote (t8 @ Nov. 13 2009,12:51) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 13 2009,17:36) I assume you defined what "Believer" is.
A believer is defined not by me but in scripture. The word is sometimes translated as saint and disciple.You can read in scripture what they believed and they all believed that Jesus was the son of God and the Christ.
Take the Pharisees for example. They believed in the existence of YHWH, but they didn't believe that Jesus was the Christ and the son of God. They are not called Believers, Saints, or Disciples, although some converted.
The Pharisees believed that Jesus is not the son of God and the Koran echoes the same sentiment.
You misunderstand me. I was stating that I assume you indicated in the forum head what this site considers to be a believer as people will go by their chosen definition otherwise.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 13 2009,17:49) "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures":
Yes, if we do not believe this gospel then do we not reject that gospel? Surely a believers doesn't reject it.
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