Should a muslim be able to post in believers area?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 24 2009,17:57)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 23 2009,19:26) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 24 2009,11:09) Hi BD. I can see that the true intention of your heart is to persecute the beliefs of believers. You don't seem interested in digging for the gold in scripture and encouraging those of the faith, but trying to find weakness instead. I base this on an overview of the posts you have made and in particular the discussions which you have started. You are actually allowed to persecute or find weakness that is not a problem, (we allow free will) but this area is not really the appropriate place to do so. I have moved many of your discussions to a new forum called "Doctrinal Disagreements" further down the Board home page. You can continue there till your heart is content. We can engage in your questions and accusations from there. I think good things will come of it. Unfortunately you have that section listed as Nonbelievers VS Believers which is really inappropriate for I am a Believer but you prefer those who believe in a Triune God, an occultist and every concoction imaginable. God have Mercy on you. For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. 1 Peter 3:16-18 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. 1 John 2:16-18 I still believe, I have no problems with your postings, in fact I believe a Mormons beliefs are far different in teaching than yours. Also if that is your photo, it's a nice one.

Thank you!

[bodhitharta]

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 24 2009,17:17)

To summarise, your problem is summed up in the following: 1 John 4:15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God. 1 John 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 1 John 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. 1 John 5:10 Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 1 John 5:12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. Not to mention the declaration that Jesus built his Church on. That Jesus was the messiah and the son of the living God.

T8,

Layers, Layers

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
1 John 5:1-3

But Jesus even says

We simply believe God sent him, to Jesus nothing was more important than believing in God with all your heart soul and mind and loving your neighbor as you love yourself those were his 2 commands and he said if you do them you believe him

He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
John 14:20-22

The most amazing thing about this whole debate is how you insist on usurping God's Sovereign Nature.

But you are wrong that Jesus is THE ONLY WAY,and Jesus is The Only Way when you understand what that means(The way of submission) but the way you believe it to mean causes conflict in the scriptures. if that belief is right then you make the words of God untrue

Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
James 4:7-9

Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.
Ecclesiastes 7:28-29

But it is good for me to draw near to God: I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, that I may declare all thy works.
Psalm 73:27-28

Now I ask you the MOST important question of all T8 Does God have the POWER to give SALVATION to anyone He pleases regardless of Jesus or anyone else?

It's a very simple question so a yes or no should not be too much to ask.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 24 2009,19:47)

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 24 2009,17:17) To summarise, your problem is summed up in the following: 1 John 4:15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God. 1 John 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 1 John 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. 1 John 5:10 Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 1 John 5:12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. Not to mention the declaration that Jesus built his Church on. That Jesus was the messiah and the son of the living God. T8, Layers, Layers Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 1 John 5:1-3 But Jesus even says We simply believe God sent him, to Jesus nothing was more important than believing in God with all your heart soul and mind and loving your neighbor as you love yourself those were his 2 commands and he said if you do them you believe him He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 14:20-22 The most amazing thing about this whole debate is how you insist on usurping God's Sovereign Nature. But you are wrong that Jesus is THE ONLY WAY,and Jesus is The Only Way when you understand what that means(The way of submission) but the way you believe it to mean causes conflict in the scriptures. if that belief is right then you make the words of God untrue Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. James 4:7-9 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions. Ecclesiastes 7:28-29 But it is good for me to draw near to God: I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, that I may declare all thy works. Psalm 73:27-28 Now I ask you the MOST important question of all T8 Does God have the POWER to give SALVATION to anyone He pleases regardless of Jesus or anyone else? It's a very simple question so a yes or no should not be too much to ask.

Layers layers?

Actually scripture scripture.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 24 2009,18:46)

If a person believes more of Muhammad's teachings then Jesus then he is not really a follower of Jesus but Muhammad. Muslims believe Jesus is the messiah (although his death isn't the victory that is taught by Jesus disciples), but they do no believe that he is the son of God, this they oppose. It is an essential belief for those who are of Christ, that he is the son of the living God, the prototype over all creation.

Do you not realize there have been a continuous prophetic message since the beginning of time it is the same message only verying slightly for the time it is presented in and the people it is presented to, the message given to Jesus is not canceled by Muhammad, but it is included in the revelation given to him.

You seem to be of the mindset that one must replace the other but this is a matter of progressive revelation, when Paul says various things that are not in direct complement to the OT or to Jesus somehow you embrace it but you run into conflicts because they do conflict, When God said that Circumcision was a mark IN YOUR FLESH as a token of an everlasting covenant God meant what he said.

But you will read Paul and he will call it something different and you accept it. But, God was very clear saying "IN YOUR FLESH" very simple. But Paul said circumcize your hearts is the "real" message but God didn't say until you circumcize your hearts circumcize your flesh, did He?

So on one hand we have God actually saying "do this"

and on the other hand you have Paul altering an everlasting covenant and he didn't even say God told him to do this , he is saying it as he admits in some scriptures actually saying "not the lord but I"

But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
1 Corinthians 7:11-13

[bodhitharta]

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 24 2009,20:00)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 24 2009,19:47) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 24 2009,17:17) To summarise, your problem is summed up in the following: 1 John 4:15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God. 1 John 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 1 John 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. 1 John 5:10 Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 1 John 5:12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. Not to mention the declaration that Jesus built his Church on. That Jesus was the messiah and the son of the living God. T8, Layers, Layers Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 1 John 5:1-3 But Jesus even says We simply believe God sent him, to Jesus nothing was more important than believing in God with all your heart soul and mind and loving your neighbor as you love yourself those were his 2 commands and he said if you do them you believe him He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 14:20-22 The most amazing thing about this whole debate is how you insist on usurping God's Sovereign Nature. But you are wrong that Jesus is THE ONLY WAY,and Jesus is The Only Way when you understand what that means(The way of submission) but the way you believe it to mean causes conflict in the scriptures. if that belief is right then you make the words of God untrue Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. James 4:7-9 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions. Ecclesiastes 7:28-29 But it is good for me to draw near to God: I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, that I may declare all thy works. Psalm 73:27-28 Now I ask you the MOST important question of all T8 Does God have the POWER to give SALVATION to anyone He pleases regardless of Jesus or anyone else? It's a very simple question so a yes or no should not be too much to ask. Layers layers? Actually scripture scripture.

The scriptures are not written in layers of meaning?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 24 2009,20:00)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 24 2009,19:47) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 24 2009,17:17) To summarise, your problem is summed up in the following: 1 John 4:15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God. 1 John 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 1 John 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. 1 John 5:10 Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 1 John 5:12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. Not to mention the declaration that Jesus built his Church on. That Jesus was the messiah and the son of the living God. T8, Layers, Layers Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him. 1 John 5:1-3 But Jesus even says We simply believe God sent him, to Jesus nothing was more important than believing in God with all your heart soul and mind and loving your neighbor as you love yourself those were his 2 commands and he said if you do them you believe him He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 14:20-22 The most amazing thing about this whole debate is how you insist on usurping God's Sovereign Nature. But you are wrong that Jesus is THE ONLY WAY,and Jesus is The Only Way when you understand what that means(The way of submission) but the way you believe it to mean causes conflict in the scriptures. if that belief is right then you make the words of God untrue Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. James 4:7-9 Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions. Ecclesiastes 7:28-29 But it is good for me to draw near to God: I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, that I may declare all thy works. Psalm 73:27-28 Now I ask you the MOST important question of all T8 Does God have the POWER to give SALVATION to anyone He pleases regardless of Jesus or anyone else? It's a very simple question so a yes or no should not be too much to ask. Layers layers? Actually scripture scripture.

Why couldn't you answer the question I asked you?

[Constitutionalist]

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 23 2009,23:59)

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 24 2009,17:57) I still believe, I have no problems with your postings, in fact I believe a Mormons beliefs are far different in teaching than yours. Also if that is your photo, it's a nice one. Yes Mormon have some beliefs that are pretty far out, but they do acknowledge that he is the son of God and the messiah (in word). It is all the other stuff that they tack on, such as Jesus and Lucifer being spiritual brothers (in the beginning) and God once being a human like us, and that their Church is the only true Church. The world is full of belief systems that were started by manipulative men. What we want to achieve here is  a place where those who believe in the foundation of the Church (i.e., that Jesus is the Christ and the son of God), will have a place where we can beyond certain doubts to touch the higher things of God and consume the meat of the word (so to speak). Othewise we always end up at the lower end debating things like "does God exist", "is Jesus the son of God", etc. Such questions are OK, but in the appropriate place. It is good to have a place where beleivers can converse without persecution, doubts of others, or being held back in other ways.

And they believe they are all sons of god from the beginning, at the same level as the Messiah, they believe they were all spirit babies waiting for bodies to inhabit to continue their spiritual goals to attain their own deification.

[Constitutionalist]

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 24 2009,01:39)

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 23 2009,23:59) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 24 2009,17:57) I still believe, I have no problems with your postings, in fact I believe a Mormons beliefs are far different in teaching than yours. Also if that is your photo, it's a nice one. Yes Mormon have some beliefs that are pretty far out, but they do acknowledge that he is the son of God and the messiah (in word). It is all the other stuff that they tack on, such as Jesus and Lucifer being spiritual brothers (in the beginning) and God once being a human like us, and that their Church is the only true Church. The world is full of belief systems that were started by manipulative men. What we want to achieve here is  a place where those who believe in the foundation of the Church (i.e., that Jesus is the Christ and the son of God), will have a place where we can beyond certain doubts to touch the higher things of God and consume the meat of the word (so to speak). Othewise we always end up at the lower end debating things like "does God exist", "is Jesus the son of God", etc. Such questions are OK, but in the appropriate place. It is good to have a place where beleivers can converse without persecution, doubts of others, or being held back in other ways. And they believe they are all sons of god from the beginning, at the same level as the Messiah, they believe they were all spirit babies waiting for bodies to inhabit to continue their spiritual goals to attain their own deification.

Actually I havn't noticed held back in here, I have noticed a three way impasse in general though. Trinitarian-Arian-Oneness. Now I admitt some of us stray across those three to some degree, but those are the main three impass, I have noticed. Just my opinion.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 24 2009,18:59)

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 24 2009,17:57) I still believe, I have no problems with your postings, in fact I believe a Mormons beliefs are far different in teaching than yours. Also if that is your photo, it's a nice one. Yes Mormon have some beliefs that are pretty far out, but they do acknowledge that he is the son of God and the messiah (in word). It is all the other stuff that they tack on, such as Jesus and Lucifer being spiritual brothers (in the beginning) and God once being a human like us, and that their Church is the only true Church. The world is full of belief systems that were started by manipulative men. What we want to achieve here is  a place where those who believe in the foundation of the Church (i.e., that Jesus is the Christ and the son of God), will have a place where we can beyond certain doubts to touch the higher things of God and consume the meat of the word (so to speak). Othewise we always end up at the lower end debating things like "does God exist", "is Jesus the son of God", etc. Such questions are OK, but in the appropriate place. It is good to have a place where beleivers can converse without persecution, doubts of others, or being held back in other ways.

I thought Jesus was the corner stone.

Shouldn't the foundation of your belief be Faith in God

[Constitutionalist]

Some demand that monogenes means "the only one born," but that assumption is easily neutralized by rattling off the Sons-of-G-d list:

Sons of G-d:

Adam
– Luke 3:38
The Pre-flood Pack
– Gen 6:2
Israel
– Ex 4:22
Angelic Earth Patrol
– Job 1:6
Peace makers
– Matt 5:9
The resurrected
– Luke 20:36
Those led by the Spirit of God
– Rom 8:14, 19
Those who have faith in Christ Jesus
– Gal 3:26
Jesus

And Jesus is the Son of G-d according to:

Satan (indirectly yes, but he was tempting, not inquiring)
– Matt 4
Two demoniacs
– Matt 8:29
The disciples
– Matt 14:33
The crucifying centurion
– Matt 27:54
Unclean spirits
– Mark 3:11
Gabriel
– Luke 1:35
Jesus Himself
– Luke 22:70
John the Baptist
– John 1:34
Nathanael
– John 1:49
Jesus again, about Himself in the third person.
– John 3:18, 5:25
Martha
– John 11:27
John the Evangelist
– John 20:31, 1 Joh 4:15, 5:5, 5:10, 5:13, 5:20.
A traveling Ethiopian
– Acts 8:37
Saul (Paul)
– Acts 9:20, Rom 1:4, 2 Cor 1:19, Gal 2:20, Eph 4:13, Hebr 4:14, 6:6, 7:3, 10:29.

And if that doesn't help, quoting Hebrews 11:17 usually does the trick. In that verse the same word is used between Abraham and his monogenes son Isaac, the younger brother of Abraham's first born son Ishmael, and proves that monogenes can not mean "only-begotten."

[Tim Kraft]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 24 2009,14:13)

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 24 2009,10:40) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 24 2009,09:45) The Bible says "ye are gods" are we all really deity? Now, please don't dodge that question. Hi BD, Thanks for your "honest" answers. Answer for you: We are all children of the most high GOD(YHVH). (Psalm 82:6) last time I presented this information as a question, your response was 'Science suggests no such thing'? Please "answer" the Biblical standpoint of this information?… Science suggests that blood in the fetus comes from the father’s genetics. That would mean “Jesus” had “GOD Blood” running through his veins. To put this in scientific terms (according to facts written in the Bible), that would mean Jesus at his birth was ½ HOLYSPIRIT(Jesus’ FATHER Mathew 1:18), ¼ from the tribe JUDAH (Mary’s Father’s tribe Luke 3:23-33) and ¼ from the tribe of LEVI (Mary’s Mother’s tribe Luke 1:5). That would make Jesus "a Prophet"(Luke 3:31), "a Priest"(Luke 1:5), but the most important of all these, the "Son of GOD"(Mathew 1:18)! It's the shedding of his “God blood” that removes sin(Heb.9:22). “GOD The Father” raised Jesus back from the dead; for our Justification(Romans 4:25). PS. Is that your real picture? You dodged the question? Are we all gods?

Bod: I will answer. Yes, my studies have led me at this time to belive that everything came from God/source and everything is in God/source. God is, I am!
We agreed to experience life without awareness of who we really are or where we really came from for educational purposes. It could be eons of time involved and millions of lifetimes lived but the return of the pieces of God(us) that came to experience both sides of polarity in the Earth yet will eventually inlighten themselves and return to their source of existence, Allah/God/All that is/or any and all terms of description for God. We are all deity that doesn't know that we came from deity but will return to deity through individual enlightenment of the truth!! My 30 year sumation. Bless all, TK

[NickHassan]

Hi TK,
So men are essentially good and in no need of salvation and education will shake off the cobwebs that limit them?
Sounds very new age and blind to reality.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 25 2009,05:20)

Hi TK, So men are essentially good and in no need of salvation and education will shake off the cobwebs that limit them? Sounds very new age and blind to reality.

See, this alone I found, that God made man upright, but they have sought out many schemes.
Ecclesiastes 7:28-29

Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter yourselves, and you hindered those who were entering."
Luke 11:51-53

and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with ability and intelligence, with knowledge and all craftsmanship,
Exodus 31:2-4

Such knowledge is too wonderful for me;it is high; I cannot attain it.
Psalm 139:5-7

An intelligent heart acquires knowledge,and the ear of the wise seeks knowledge.
Proverbs 18:14-16

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge; because you have rejected knowledge,I reject you from being a priest to me.And since you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children.
Hosea 4:5-7

For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice, the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.
Hosea 6:5-7

to give knowledge of salvation to his people in the forgiveness of their sins,
Luke 1:76-78

[Proclaimer]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 24 2009,20:54)

I thought Jesus was the corner stone. Shouldn't the foundation of your belief be Faith in God

Yes and belief in God is to believe his testimony.

1 John 5:10
Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 25 2009,11:59)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 24 2009,20:54) I thought Jesus was the corner stone. Shouldn't the foundation of your belief be Faith in God Yes and belief in God is to believe his testimony. 1 John 5:10 Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.

What testimony did GOD give?

I'm interested in what you will say.

"On this day I have begotten thee" is a quote from the OT and not a direct testimony about Jesus

"This is my son whom I am well pleased" is a Quote from the OT and not a direct testimony about Jesus

"Thy throne oh God" is a Quote from the OT and not a direct Quote about Jesus

The only Direct Quote about Jesus is by Gabriel who says and "He will be called the son of the Highest"

and "being called " is not the same meaning as "He is"

Belief in God is based on Belief in the words that God has said and believe that God has sent His Christ, but you have much to learn.

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
How can you judge others when you have swallowed the lies of a false prophet?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 25 2009,15:47)

Hi BD, How can you judge others when you have swallowed the lies of a false prophet?

Muhammad never said he saw Christ or heard his voice in a mysterious light, but guess who did even though the scriptures say that the next time Jesus would come to earth would be in the same way he left but Paul says he came to him out on the road but I was reminded by what Jesus PROPHESIED

Matthew 24:23-25 (King James Version)

23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

But you not only believed he saw Christ on that road
you believe to this affect:

And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.
Galatians 4:13-15

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
Seek the Spirit of Christ that filled Paul and you may learn to align scripture.
If you do not have the Spirit you are none of his.[Rom8]

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 25 2009,17:10)

Hi BD, Seek the Spirit of Christ that filled Paul and you may learn to align scripture. If you do not have the Spirit you are none of his.[Rom8]

Why do you say that the spirit of Christ filled Paul? Paul said NOTHING GOOD WAS IN HIM

Do you still want to say the Spirit of Christ was in Paul.

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Romans 7:17-19

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
You misunderstand-as usual.
The flesh of man belongs to earth and offers nothing permanently useful to God or man.

[Author]

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