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Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 24 2009,04:41) You have not read the context of what you quoted. Those who are obedient to God are slaves of God but those who rebel by using "free will" will be punished.
Choosing not to do God's will is not a "free" option as their is a penalty involved. Satan teaches that "free will" has no penalty involved but giving someone godlike power and authority to decide what is good and what is evil for themselves.
We are commanded to do the will of God, we are not asked
bodhitharta if people were not free to sin or disobey God, then we couldn't do either.But people are free to disobey God and they will suffer for that because God is love, and to reject such great love and mercy doesn't bode well because the alternative is judgement.
God has a will.
Man has a will.
God allows man to use his will to choose his (God's) will.
He also allows men to choose him not.In this is our love for God demonstrated as true love is always a choice.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 24 2009,09:07) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 24 2009,04:41) You have not read the context of what you quoted. Those who are obedient to God are slaves of God but those who rebel by using "free will" will be punished.
Choosing not to do God's will is not a "free" option as their is a penalty involved. Satan teaches that "free will" has no penalty involved but giving someone godlike power and authority to decide what is good and what is evil for themselves.
We are commanded to do the will of God, we are not asked
bodhitharta if people were not free to sin or disobey God, then we couldn't do either.But people are free to disobey God and they will suffer for that because God is love, and to reject such great love and mercy doesn't bode well because the alternative is judgement.
God has a will.
Man has a will.
God allows man to use his will to choose his (God's) will.
He also allows men to choose him not.In this is our love for God demonstrated as true love is always a choice.
Hi T8,You couldn't of said it any simpler and easier to understand; everything in life is a choice.
God even allows people to choose against him, but this always turns out to be the wrong choice.
God is "Love", and He only wants whats best for us!God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Nov. 24 2009,08:27) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 24 2009,04:50) It also proves what I said you cannot join other gods with God it is blasphemy so are you sure you want to do that?
Hi BD,I try to answer your all questions; why do you avoid mine?
Once again you did not answer my questions(as is your pattern);
here again are same three questions, this time please answer them.You believe that belief in 'a trinity' (as you say it), Paramount's to(in your opinion) 'joining god's to God'?
Is this not true?You also consider the belief that if Jesus' Father(Holy Spirit) is GOD(making Jesus God's only begotten Son)
Paramount's to Jesus having "some kind of deity status only because he would be considered God's Son",
which is also(in your opinion) a violation of 'joining god's to God'.
Is this not true?Now based on your view of the teachings of 'the quran'(Sura 9#5); those who believe in either
(point that I described in the last two paragraphs) are deserving(according to your opinion) of being slain.
Is this not true?Please do not dodge these three questions; which is your pattern!
Quote You believe that belief in 'a trinity' (as you say it), Paramount's to(in your opinion) 'joining god's to God'?
Is this not true?Yes, The Lord God is ONE Lord
Quote You also consider the belief that if Jesus' Father(Holy Spirit) is GOD(making Jesus God's only begotten Son)
Paramount's to Jesus having "some kind of deity status only because he would be considered God's Son",
which is also(in your opinion) a violation of 'joining god's to God'.
Is this not true?I don't believe Jesus being called son gives him deity status, Adam was also called the son of God.
Quote Now based on your view of the teachings of 'the quran'(Sura 9#5); those who believe in either
(point that I described in the last two paragraphs) are deserving(according to your opinion) of being slain.
Is this not true?Of course not! There is no compulsion in religion what you read in Surah 9 verse 5 is pertaining to War. Don't you recall the crusades when the Christians tried to kill Muslims do you think they should have not fought back?
Sura #22
39 To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid;-
40 (They are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right,- (for no cause) except that they say, "our Lord is Allah".. If Allah did not check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid his (cause);- for verily Allah is full of Strength, Exalted in Might, (able to enforce His Will).Wouldn't it be better to read the text you critisize? That way you would know what your reporting.
Quote Please do not dodge these three questions; which is your pattern! I apologize if you think I have dodged any questions of yours or anyone elses, I probably thought I had answered it I do appreciate the way you outlined your questions specifically it helped me greatly to know exactly what you were asking but as I said before you should be more focused.
The Bible says "ye are gods" are we all really deity? Now, please don't dodge that question.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 24 2009,09:07) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 24 2009,04:41) You have not read the context of what you quoted. Those who are obedient to God are slaves of God but those who rebel by using "free will" will be punished.
Choosing not to do God's will is not a "free" option as their is a penalty involved. Satan teaches that "free will" has no penalty involved but giving someone godlike power and authority to decide what is good and what is evil for themselves.
We are commanded to do the will of God, we are not asked
bodhitharta if people were not free to sin or disobey God, then we couldn't do either.But people are free to disobey God and they will suffer for that because God is love, and to reject such great love and mercy doesn't bode well because the alternative is judgement.
God has a will.
Man has a will.
God allows man to use his will to choose his (God's) will.
He also allows men to choose him not.In this is our love for God demonstrated as true love is always a choice.
T8,You are incorrect there is no "choice" where there is coercion, threat of force or punishment. If I say believe in Jesus or Islam or the laws of Moses or you will go to hell that is a threat of punishment(everlasting punishment)
"Free choice" Would be you can believe or not believe and there will be no punishment or reward.
The fact is God told Adam what he was not to do God didn't say "I have set many choices before you choose at will and do what thou will."
Atheists will tell you that they have free will because they deny God and therefore are Amoral they do what they feel like doing in the end they will pay a severe punishment according to the scriptures.
To give yourself to God and submit, you become a slave.
Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 24 2009,09:36) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 24 2009,09:07) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 24 2009,04:41) You have not read the context of what you quoted. Those who are obedient to God are slaves of God but those who rebel by using "free will" will be punished.
Choosing not to do God's will is not a "free" option as their is a penalty involved. Satan teaches that "free will" has no penalty involved but giving someone godlike power and authority to decide what is good and what is evil for themselves.
We are commanded to do the will of God, we are not asked
bodhitharta if people were not free to sin or disobey God, then we couldn't do either.But people are free to disobey God and they will suffer for that because God is love, and to reject such great love and mercy doesn't bode well because the alternative is judgement.
God has a will.
Man has a will.
God allows man to use his will to choose his (God's) will.
He also allows men to choose him not.In this is our love for God demonstrated as true love is always a choice.
Hi T8,You couldn't of said it any simpler and easier to understand; everything in life is a choice.
God even allows people to choose against him, but this always turns out to be the wrong choice.
God is "Love", and He only wants whats best for us!God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Are you guys living in another dimension God clearly says you do not have a choice that you will be punished for not being obedient. God does not condone people choosing against him otherwise He would not tell you to repent.Condone-To overlook, forgive, or disregard (an offense) without protest or censure
Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 24 2009,09:45) The Bible says "ye are gods" are we all really deity? Now, please don't dodge that question.
Hi BD,Thanks for your "honest" answers.
Answer for you: We are all children of the most high GOD(YHVH). (Psalm 82:6)last time I presented this information as a question, your response was 'Science suggests no such thing'?
Please "answer" the Biblical standpoint of this information?…Science suggests that blood in the fetus comes from the father’s genetics.
That would mean “Jesus” had “GOD Blood” running through his veins.
To put this in scientific terms (according to facts written in the Bible),
that would mean Jesus at his birth was ½ HOLYSPIRIT(Jesus’ FATHER Mathew 1:18),
¼ from the tribe JUDAH (Mary’s Father’s tribe Luke 3:23-33)
and ¼ from the tribe of LEVI (Mary’s Mother’s tribe Luke 1:5).
That would make Jesus "a Prophet"(Luke 3:31), "a Priest"(Luke 1:5),
but the most important of all these, the "Son of GOD"(Mathew 1:18)!It's the shedding of his “God blood” that removes sin(Heb.9:22).
“GOD The Father” raised Jesus back from the dead; for our Justification(Romans 4:25).PS. Is that your real picture?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 24 2009,09:54) "Free choice" Would be you can believe or not believe and there will be no punishment or reward.
Free will doesn't mean no consequence.Free means that you have the freedom to do something.
It doesn't mean that you should do it.If we didn't have the freedom to choose, then how could we be judged? We are judged for what we do, not what we are programmed to do.
John 7:17
If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.James 4:4
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.1 Peter 4:3
For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry.Notice the theme in the above scriptures. It shows that we have choice. It is in our will that we choose. God wants us to choose his will. But he allows us to not do that if we choose him not.
In this we are responsible for all that we do. We cannot totally blame our choices on others.
Hi BD.
I can see that the true intention of your heart is to persecute the beliefs of believers. You don't seem interested in digging for the gold in scripture and encouraging those of the faith, but trying to find weakness instead. I base this on an overview of the posts you have made and in particular the discussions which you have started.
You are actually allowed to persecute or find weakness that is not a problem, (we allow free will) but this area is not really the appropriate place to do so.
I have moved many of your discussions to a new forum called "Doctrinal Disagreements" further down the Board home page. You can continue there till your heart is content. We can engage in your questions and accusations from there. I think good things will come of it.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 24 2009,09:54) T8, You are incorrect there is no "choice" where there is coercion, threat of force or punishment.
"Free choice" Would be you can believe or not believe and there will be no punishment or reward.
To give yourself to God and submit, you become a slave.
Hi BD,If you don't mind my asking, what Country do you live in?
Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 24 2009,10:40) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 24 2009,09:45) The Bible says "ye are gods" are we all really deity? Now, please don't dodge that question.
Hi BD,Thanks for your "honest" answers.
Answer for you: We are all children of the most high GOD(YHVH). (Psalm 82:6)last time I presented this information as a question, your response was 'Science suggests no such thing'?
Please "answer" the Biblical standpoint of this information?…Science suggests that blood in the fetus comes from the father’s genetics.
That would mean “Jesus” had “GOD Blood” running through his veins.
To put this in scientific terms (according to facts written in the Bible),
that would mean Jesus at his birth was ½ HOLYSPIRIT(Jesus’ FATHER Mathew 1:18),
¼ from the tribe JUDAH (Mary’s Father’s tribe Luke 3:23-33)
and ¼ from the tribe of LEVI (Mary’s Mother’s tribe Luke 1:5).
That would make Jesus "a Prophet"(Luke 3:31), "a Priest"(Luke 1:5),
but the most important of all these, the "Son of GOD"(Mathew 1:18)!It's the shedding of his “God blood” that removes sin(Heb.9:22).
“GOD The Father” raised Jesus back from the dead; for our Justification(Romans 4:25).PS. Is that your real picture?
You dodged the question?Are we all gods?
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 24 2009,11:01) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 24 2009,09:54) "Free choice" Would be you can believe or not believe and there will be no punishment or reward.
Free will doesn't mean no consequence.Free means that you have the freedom to do something.
It doesn't mean that you should do it.If we didn't have the freedom to choose, then how could we be judged? We are judged for what we do, not what we are programmed to do.
John 7:17
If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.James 4:4
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.1 Peter 4:3
For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry.Notice the theme in the above scriptures. It shows that we have choice. It is in our will that we choose. God wants us to choose his will. But he allows us to not do that if we choose him not.
In this we are responsible for all that we do. We cannot totally blame our choices on others.
Does God condone sin?Does God condone "free choice"?
Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 24 2009,11:36) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 24 2009,09:54) T8, You are incorrect there is no "choice" where there is coercion, threat of force or punishment.
"Free choice" Would be you can believe or not believe and there will be no punishment or reward.
To give yourself to God and submit, you become a slave.
Hi BD,If you don't mind my asking, what Country do you live in?
USAQuote (t8 @ Nov. 24 2009,11:09) Hi BD. I can see that the true intention of your heart is to persecute the beliefs of believers. You don't seem interested in digging for the gold in scripture and encouraging those of the faith, but trying to find weakness instead. I base this on an overview of the posts you have made and in particular the discussions which you have started.
You are actually allowed to persecute or find weakness that is not a problem, (we allow free will) but this area is not really the appropriate place to do so.
I have moved many of your discussions to a new forum called "Doctrinal Disagreements" further down the Board home page. You can continue there till your heart is content. We can engage in your questions and accusations from there. I think good things will come of it.
Unfortunately you have that section listed as Nonbelievers VS Believers which is really inappropriate for I am a Believer but you prefer those who believe in a Triune God, an occultist and every concoction imaginable. God have Mercy on you.For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
1 Peter 3:16-18And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
1 John 2:16-18Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 24 2009,14:26) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 24 2009,11:09) Hi BD. I can see that the true intention of your heart is to persecute the beliefs of believers. You don't seem interested in digging for the gold in scripture and encouraging those of the faith, but trying to find weakness instead. I base this on an overview of the posts you have made and in particular the discussions which you have started.
You are actually allowed to persecute or find weakness that is not a problem, (we allow free will) but this area is not really the appropriate place to do so.
I have moved many of your discussions to a new forum called "Doctrinal Disagreements" further down the Board home page. You can continue there till your heart is content. We can engage in your questions and accusations from there. I think good things will come of it.
Unfortunately you have that section listed as Nonbelievers VS Believers which is really inappropriate for I am a Believer but you prefer those who believe in a Triune God, an occultist and every concoction imaginable. God have Mercy on you.For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
1 Peter 3:16-18And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
1 John 2:16-18
You believe in the existence of God but you do not believe that Jesus is the only way to God and the son of God.Believers Place is also not the place for people preaching from the Mormon bible or Hindus quoting from the Vedas.
Such can post about the bible in the Doctrinal Disagreements forum.
BD, just to clarify, you do not believe the scriptures regarding who Jesus is.
Matthew 4:3
The tempter came to him and said, "If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread."Matthew 4:6
"If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written: " 'He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.' "Matthew 8:29
"What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?"Matthew 14:33
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, "Truly you are the Son of God."Matthew 26:63
But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God."Matthew 27:40
and saying, "You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!"Matthew 27:43
He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, 'I am the Son of God.' "Matthew 27:54
When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, "Surely he was the Son of God!"Mark 1:1
The beginning of the gospel about Jesus Christ, the Son of God.Mark 3:11
Whenever the evil spirits saw him, they fell down before him and cried out, "You are the Son of God."Mark 15:39
And when the centurion, who stood there in front of Jesus, heard his cry and saw how he died, he said, "Surely this man was the Son of God!"Luke 1:35
The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.Luke 3:38
the son of Kenan, the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.Luke 4:3
The devil said to him, "If you are the Son of God, tell this stone to become bread."Luke 4:9
The devil led him to Jerusalem and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. "If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down from here.Luke 4:41
Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, "You are the Son of God!" But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they knew he was the Christ.Luke 22:70
They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?" He replied, "You are right in saying I am."John 1:34
I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God."John 1:49
Then Nathanael declared, "Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel."John 5:25
I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live.John 11:27
"Yes, Lord," she told him, "I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who was to come into the world."John 19:7
The Jews insisted, "We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God."John 20:31
But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.Acts 9:20
Saul spent several days with the disciples in Damascus. At once he began to preach in the synagogues that Jesus is the Son of God.Romans 1:4
and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord.2 Corinthians 1:19
For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by me and Silas and Timothy, was not "Yes" and "No," but in him it has always been "Yes."Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.Ephesians 4:13
until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.Hebrews 4:14
Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess.Hebrews 6:6
if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.Hebrews 7:3
Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever.Hebrews 10:29
How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?1 John 3:8
He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work.1 John 4:15
If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.1 John 5:1
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.1 John 5:5
Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.1 John 5:10
Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe G
od has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.1 John 5:12
He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.1 John 5:20
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.Revelation 2:18
"To the angel of the church in Thyatira write:These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze.To summarise, your problem is summed up in the following:
1 John 4:15
If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.1 John 5:1
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.1 John 5:5
Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.1 John 5:10
Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.1 John 5:12
He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.1 John 5:13
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.Not to mention the declaration that Jesus built his Church on. That Jesus was the messiah and the son of the living God.
You have to admit BD, that these scriptures are clear and the consequence of rejecting this truth is also clear.
You have chosen with your will and that I respect.
I ask you to also respect the purpose for having the Believers Place in this board.Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 23 2009,19:26) Quote (t8 @ Nov. 24 2009,11:09) Hi BD. I can see that the true intention of your heart is to persecute the beliefs of believers. You don't seem interested in digging for the gold in scripture and encouraging those of the faith, but trying to find weakness instead. I base this on an overview of the posts you have made and in particular the discussions which you have started.
You are actually allowed to persecute or find weakness that is not a problem, (we allow free will) but this area is not really the appropriate place to do so.
I have moved many of your discussions to a new forum called "Doctrinal Disagreements" further down the Board home page. You can continue there till your heart is content. We can engage in your questions and accusations from there. I think good things will come of it.
Unfortunately you have that section listed as Nonbelievers VS Believers which is really inappropriate for I am a Believer but you prefer those who believe in a Triune God, an occultist and every concoction imaginable. God have Mercy on you.For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
1 Peter 3:16-18And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
1 John 2:16-18
I still believe, I have no problems with your postings, in fact I believe a Mormons beliefs are far different in teaching than yours.Also if that is your photo, it's a nice one.
If a person believes more of Muhammad's teachings then Jesus then he is not really a follower of Jesus but Muhammad.
Muslims believe Jesus is the messiah (although his death isn't the victory that is taught by Jesus disciples), but they do no believe that he is the son of God, this they oppose. It is an essential belief for those who are of Christ, that he is the son of the living God, the prototype over all creation.Quote (Constitutionalist @ Nov. 24 2009,17:57) I still believe, I have no problems with your postings, in fact I believe a Mormons beliefs are far different in teaching than yours. Also if that is your photo, it's a nice one.
Yes Mormon have some beliefs that are pretty far out, but they do acknowledge that he is the son of God and the messiah (in word). It is all the other stuff that they tack on, such as Jesus and Lucifer being spiritual brothers (in the beginning) and God once being a human like us, and that their Church is the only true Church.The world is full of belief systems that were started by manipulative men. What we want to achieve here is a place where those who believe in the foundation of the Church (i.e., that Jesus is the Christ and the son of God), will have a place where we can beyond certain doubts to touch the higher things of God and consume the meat of the word (so to speak).
Othewise we always end up at the lower end debating things like "does God exist", "is Jesus the son of God", etc. Such questions are OK, but in the appropriate place.
It is good to have a place where beleivers can converse without persecution, doubts of others, or being held back in other ways.
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