Should a muslim be able to post in believers area?

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
Not only are they to work as servants of God by the inspiration and leading of God's Spirit they are to cooperate with the work of the Holy Spirit of transformation within their hearts and minds.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2009,15:49)

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2009,15:28) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2009,14:38) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2009,13:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2009,08:26) So he was incorrect? He said the work WAS finished, he didn't say the work will be finished, he said WAS finished was he right? Hi BD, Once again try to make The Bible to (force it) agree with the Quran. You pull one verse out of context and then say is agrees with your faulty theology. Understand how the bible was written. You must understand biblical language; Jesus was speaking in faith, to carry out his father’s plan of redemption. Romans 4:17 …(Faith is to) call those things which be not as though they were. Rev.13:8  …the Lamb(Jesus) slain from the foundation of the world. Heb.4:3 …although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. These two verses only say that Jesus Death was determined before the world began; NOT that he died before the world began; only that is when it was determined to happen! Jesus explained to his disciples he was going to Jerusalem to be crucified. Matt.20:19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him : and the third day he shall rise again. At this point in time he affirms his fate that he is going to go through with it. John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause(determined before the foundation of the world) came I unto this hour. Likewise when Jesus stated “I have finished the work which thou(Holy Spirit) gavest me to do. That did NOT mean that the work was already finished; but that He was determined to finish it. That is why He said (while hanging on the cross) before He died “it is finished” and then died! ED, That is not the case with John 17:3-5 because Jesus describes the work God gave him to do "Glorify God on earth" and Jesus said he had completed the job, why fight the scriptures? When Jesus describes the plot to murder him he doesn't call that the work of God after all the people wanted to KILL him for doing the work of GOD. YOU believe that murdering Jesus was the work of GOD. IF So all of his accusers and the one who betrayed him should be heroes for they completed the Murder of Christ for the benefit of all humanity, is that what you believe? You believe that if they did not KILL him you would have no way to be redeemed, so you NEED murder of the innocent to justify your sins. It is you who ignores scripture; you didn't even read all the scriptures that prove my point(all in agreement). You ignore all of them, instead insisting you are right. Why? Because you believe you are right(don't bother me with the facts I already have my mind made up). Instead of believing the scriptures; you instead choose to follow what men teach about God, instead of listening to GOD. Continually trying to make "The Bible" (forcibly) agree with 'the Quran'; but they don't agree with each other. Heb.9:22 …without shedding of (Jesus)blood is no remission (of sins). Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them(those who crucified him); for they know not what they do(carrying out the father's plan), the Gospel. So if Jesus died for your sins then why does Paul say: Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Philippians 2:11-13 Tell me what then is there to "work out"? If you believe that Jesus died for your sins what else is there to work out?

When you receive God's salvation, then is it not your salvation.

If I give you a gift, it is then your gift.

Salvation is a free gift of God, not by works lest any man should boast.

What we do with the gift of salvation is up to us.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2009,17:26)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2009,15:49) So if Jesus died for your sins then why does Paul say: Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Philippians 2:11-13 Tell me what then is there to "work out"? If you believe that Jesus died for your sins what else is there to work out? Hi BD, You bring out an interesting point, but this one should be easy for you to understand. Though sinners once decided what was right and what is wrong. Once a persons sins are forgiven(because Jesus' death blots out their sins), they put trust in God to help them change from their wicked ways. Now looking to God for guidance, they still choose what do, working out between themselves and God what is right and what is wrong for them to do. Somebody else doesn't get to decide for the what is right and what is wrong. The choice is between them and God. God has to change people from the inside, through the Holy Spirit.

Didn't Jesus already tell them what is right and what is wrong?

I understand that you're saying they still need to grow but that's not what Paul said he said "work out your salvation" with fear and trembling but you told me the "redemptive work" was done at the cross so what regarding salvation needs to be worked out with fear and trembling?

These people heard the gospel and accepted Jesus as lord and Saviour so what is there to "work out" regarding their salvation.

"Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" sounds very Islamic because a Muslim must always seek to do what's right and fear going against the will of God so why should a Christian fell the same way?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 22 2009,18:34)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2009,15:49) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2009,15:28) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2009,14:38) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2009,13:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2009,08:26) So he was incorrect? He said the work WAS finished, he didn't say the work will be finished, he said WAS finished was he right? Hi BD, Once again try to make The Bible to (force it) agree with the Quran. You pull one verse out of context and then say is agrees with your faulty theology. Understand how the bible was written. You must understand biblical language; Jesus was speaking in faith, to carry out his father’s plan of redemption. Romans 4:17 …(Faith is to) call those things which be not as though they were. Rev.13:8  …the Lamb(Jesus) slain from the foundation of the world. Heb.4:3 …although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. These two verses only say that Jesus Death was determined before the world began; NOT that he died before the world began; only that is when it was determined to happen! Jesus explained to his disciples he was going to Jerusalem to be crucified. Matt.20:19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him : and the third day he shall rise again. At this point in time he affirms his fate that he is going to go through with it. John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause(determined before the foundation of the world) came I unto this hour. Likewise when Jesus stated “I have finished the work which thou(Holy Spirit) gavest me to do. That did NOT mean that the work was already finished; but that He was determined to finish it. That is why He said (while hanging on the cross) before He died “it is finished” and then died! ED, That is not the case with John 17:3-5 because Jesus describes the work God gave him to do "Glorify God on earth" and Jesus said he had completed the job, why fight the scriptures? When Jesus describes the plot to murder him he doesn't call that the work of God after all the people wanted to KILL him for doing the work of GOD. YOU believe that murdering Jesus was the work of GOD. IF So all of his accusers and the one who betrayed him should be heroes for they completed the Murder of Christ for the benefit of all humanity, is that what you believe? You believe that if they did not KILL him you would have no way to be redeemed, so you NEED murder of the innocent to justify your sins. It is you who ignores scripture; you didn't even read all the scriptures that prove my point(all in agreement). You ignore all of them, instead insisting you are right. Why? Because you believe you are right(don't bother me with the facts I already have my mind made up). Instead of believing the scriptures; you instead choose to follow what men teach about God, instead of listening to GOD. Continually trying to make "The Bible" (forcibly) agree with 'the Quran'; but they don't agree with each other. Heb.9:22 …without shedding of (Jesus)blood is no remission (of sins). Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them(those who crucified him); for they know not what they do(carrying out the father's plan), the Gospel. So if Jesus died for your sins then why does Paul say: Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Philippians 2:11-13 Tell me what then is there to "work out"? If you believe that Jesus died for your sins what else is there to work out? When you receive God's salvation, then is it not your salvation. If I give you a gift, it is then your gift. Salvation is a free gift of God, not by works lest any man should boast. What we do with the gift of salvation is up to us.

How is salvation a free gift if you say Jesus PAID the price for it?

I agree with you that the salvation of God is available to anyone who chooses to do the will of God (no blood necessary)

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
It was not free for the one who died for us.
His life was the price.

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
The reason we work out our salvation in fear and trembling is that the gift is given to us by the Almighty One who expects a return on His investment in us.
We must grasp the gift and start walking, asking, seeking and knocking so His will for us and the path given to us becomes more plain.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 22 2009,19:30)

Hi BD, It was not free for the one who died for us. His life was the price.

His earthly life?

Was our penalty to lose our earthly life?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 22 2009,19:33)

Hi BD, The reason we work out our salvation in fear and trembling is that the gift is given to us by the Almighty One who expects a return on His investment in us. We must grasp the gift and start walking, asking, seeking and knocking so His will for us and the path given to us becomes more plain.

So the gift is not free? There are strings attached to the free gift?

Just asking for clarity, Are you saying this free gift of salvation was not available until Jesus was murdered?

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
Indeed we follow him into his death and resurrection[rom6] so that we can be seated with him in the heavenly realms[Col]

The gift is free but it does require that we become sanctified and equipped unto divine service.

We do no longer live for ourselves but for God.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 23 2009,04:52)

Hi BD, Indeed we follow him into his death and resurrection[rom6] so that we can be seated with him in the heavenly realms[Col] The gift is free but it does require that we become sanctified and equipped unto divine service. We do no longer live for ourselves but for God.

So in essense the FREE gift costs you your freedom as you must then become a slave right?

But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.
Romans 6:21-23

[NickHassan]

Exactly BD,
Does it appeal to you?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 23 2009,08:11)

Exactly BD, Does it appeal to you?

Of Course I have always considered my self a SLAVE of GOD hence being a SUBMITTER(MUSLIM).

The fact is Adam was not given a choice in the garden of Eden he was told to submit to the will of God instead he yielded to his own desires.

Most people do not understand that God does not teach free will God teached His will. Satan teaches "free will"

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
Has God always had the same idea?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 23 2009,11:33)

Hi BD, Has God always had the same idea?

I have never read scripture that allows a man to do whatever he wants, God has always directed his will to us.

God says continuously that he has given instruction if it is followed you will be blessed and if it is shunned you will be cursed and it has proven to be the case.

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
Really?
Man follows the god of this world unless the God of Israel gets his attention.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Nov. 23 2009,11:40)

Hi BD, Really? Man follows the god of this world unless the God of Israel gets his attention.

There is only one God and he doesn't have an option (without punishment) to follow anything else but God Almighty

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
No unless you believe in the Son of God you remain under the wrath of God.[Jn3]
That is the starting point for all natural men

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
Sin is defined by Jesus in Jn16 as relating to disbelief in him.
He is the way for all men so refusing his help is folly.

[bodhitharta]

The Work of Jesus was to Glorify God Almighty on earth I glorify God on earth is that wrong?

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
You stand by your own efforts.
Who knows if God will accept them as righteousness?

[Author]

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