Should a muslim be able to post in believers area?

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 21 2009,04:02)

Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. Jeremiah 17:4-6

You have turned away from the GOD(YHVH) of Israel;
and you put your trust in man.

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 16 2009,06:42)

Muhammad honoured Jesus as Jesus is his brethren but you believe in Other" gods

You follow false teachings and a false god.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 21 2009,10:46)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 21 2009,04:02) Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. Jeremiah 17:4-6 You have turned away from the GOD(YHVH) of Israel; and you put your trust in man. Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 16 2009,06:42) Muhammad honoured Jesus as Jesus is his brethren but you believe in Other" gods You follow false teachings and a false god.

I put my trust in God and yet you say that is a false teaching

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 21 2009,13:05)

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 21 2009,10:46) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 21 2009,04:02) Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. Jeremiah 17:4-6 You have turned away from the GOD(YHVH) of Israel; and you put your trust in man. Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 16 2009,06:42) Muhammad honoured Jesus as Jesus is his brethren but you believe in Other" gods You follow false teachings and a false god. I put my trust in God and yet you say that is a false teaching

Hi BD,

If you trusted in the GOD of the bible, then you would have believed that HE(GOD The Father) raised "Jesus"=74 back from the dead(Gospel=74).

But you instead chose to follow man's teachings?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 21 2009,13:38)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 21 2009,13:05) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 21 2009,10:46) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 21 2009,04:02) Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. Jeremiah 17:4-6 You have turned away from the GOD(YHVH) of Israel; and you put your trust in man. Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 16 2009,06:42) Muhammad honoured Jesus as Jesus is his brethren but you believe in Other" gods You follow false teachings and a false god. I put my trust in God and yet you say that is a false teaching Hi BD, If you trusted in the GOD of the bible, then you would have believed that HE(GOD The Father) raised "Jesus"=74 back from the dead(Gospel=74). But you instead chose to follow man's teachings?

God raised Jesus up to Himself

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 21 2009,13:48)

God raised Jesus up to Himself

John 20:27-29 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands;
and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless(BD), but believing.
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed:
blessed are they (on https://heavennet.net) that have not seen, and yet have believed.

This is what (according to your words) you do NOT believe.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 21 2009,13:58)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 21 2009,13:48) God raised Jesus up to Himself John 20:27-29 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless(BD), but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they (on https://heavennet.net) that have not seen, and yet have believed. This is what (according to your words) you do NOT believe.

Thomas didn't believe that he was alive. But more importantly did Jesus come to glorify himself or God?

The whole argument that we seem to be having here is whether Jesus came to Glorify himself or God.

Jesus insists that he came to Glorify God and said.

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John 17:3-5

Why did Jesus say that this was the work he was given to do and in-fact finished that work and that was before the cross was it not?

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 21 2009,19:29)

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 21 2009,13:58) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 21 2009,13:48) God raised Jesus up to Himself John 20:27-29 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless(BD), but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they (on https://heavennet.net) that have not seen, and yet have believed. This is what (according to your words) you do NOT believe. Thomas didn't believe that he was alive. But more importantly did Jesus come to glorify himself or God? The whole argument that we seem to be having here is whether Jesus came to Glorify himself or God. Jesus insists that he came to Glorify God and said. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. John 17:3-5 Why did Jesus say that this was the work he was given to do and in-fact finished that work and that was before the cross was it not?

Hi BD,

You continue to show that you do NOT know "the God" of the Bible.

The work Jesus came to do was to "die" for your sins(the Gospel) on the cross.

John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.
"Father", glorify thy name(YHVH). Then came there a voice from heaven, saying , I have both glorified it , and will glorify it again.
The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it , said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.
Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world(Satan) be cast out.
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth(in crucifixion), will draw all men(including you BD) unto me.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 21 2009,22:07)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 21 2009,19:29) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 21 2009,13:58) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 21 2009,13:48) God raised Jesus up to Himself John 20:27-29 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless(BD), but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they (on https://heavennet.net) that have not seen, and yet have believed. This is what (according to your words) you do NOT believe. Thomas didn't believe that he was alive. But more importantly did Jesus come to glorify himself or God? The whole argument that we seem to be having here is whether Jesus came to Glorify himself or God. Jesus insists that he came to Glorify God and said. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. John 17:3-5 Why did Jesus say that this was the work he was given to do and in-fact finished that work and that was before the cross was it not? Hi BD, You continue to show that you do NOT know "the God" of the Bible. The work Jesus came to do was to "die" for your sins(the Gospel) on the cross. John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour. "Father", glorify thy name(YHVH). Then came there a voice from heaven, saying , I have both glorified it , and will glorify it again. The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it , said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him. Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes. Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world(Satan) be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth(in crucifixion), will draw all men(including you BD) unto me.

The question was simple but yet you didn't answer it.

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John 17:3-5

Why did Jesus say that this was the work he was given to do and in-fact finished that work and that was before the cross was it not?

Also why did you add(in crucifixion)?

Tell me about John 17: 3-5 please, if you are the witness of God you should be able to answer my questions like you said you would.

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2009,04:04)

The question was simple but yet you didn't answer it. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. John 17:3-5 Why did Jesus say that this was the work he was given to do and in-fact finished that work and that was before the cross was it not? Also why did you add(in crucifixion)? Tell me about John 17: 3-5 please, if you are the witness of God you should be able to answer my questions like you said you would.

Hi BD,
I'm so glad you asked. (2Timothy 2:13)

He did not say “it is finished” until he was hanging on the cross preparing to die.
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished:
and he bowed his head, and gave up the Spirit(he died).

Rev. 13:8-10 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him(Satan),
whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain
from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear.
He that leadeth into captivity(forced submission) shall go into captivity:
he that killeth with the sword(Sura 9) must be killed with the sword.
Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

This is why there is ‘no peace’ since the inception of your ‘holy book’;
he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword.

John 16:7-11: Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I(Jesus) go away:
for if I go not away, the Comforter(Holy Spirit) will not come unto you; but if I depart,
I will send him unto you. And when he(Holy Spirit) is come, he will reprove the world of sin,
and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me(Jesus);
Of judgment, because the prince of this world(Satan) is judged.

John 14:23-23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words:
and my Father(Holy Spirit) will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine,
but the Father's(Holy Spirit) which sent me. (John 6:38)

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2009,04:44)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2009,04:04) The question was simple but yet you didn't answer it. I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. John 17:3-5 Why did Jesus say that this was the work he was given to do and in-fact finished that work and that was before the cross was it not? Also why did you add(in crucifixion)? Tell me about John 17: 3-5 please, if you are the witness of God you should be able to answer my questions like you said you would. Hi BD, I'm so glad you asked. (2Timothy 2:13) He did not say “it is finished” until he was hanging on the cross preparing to die. John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the Spirit(he died). Rev. 13:8-10 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him(Satan), whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear. He that leadeth into captivity(forced submission) shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword(Sura 9) must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. This is why there is ‘no peace’ since the inception of your ‘holy book’; he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. John 16:7-11: Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I(Jesus) go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter(Holy Spirit) will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he(Holy Spirit) is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me(Jesus); Of judgment, because the prince of this world(Satan) is judged. John 14:23-23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father(Holy Spirit) will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's(Holy Spirit) which sent me. (John 6:38)

Tell me about John 17: 3-5 please, if you are the witness of God you should be able to answer my questions like you said you would.

You haven't yet explained and you said you would explain was Jesus telling the truth when he said

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
John 17:3-5

I'm not asking what he said later i'm asking about John 17:3-5 is it correct or not?

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2009,04:52)

Tell me about John 17: 3-5 please, if you are the witness of God you should be able to answer my questions like you said you would. You haven't yet explained and you said you would explain was Jesus telling the truth when he said I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. John 17:3-5 I'm not asking what he said later i'm asking about John 17:3-5 is it correct or not?

Hi BD,

I don't know what you are getting at; but John 17:3-5 seems pretty self explanatory. He knew he was going to be delivered up(crucified).

Matt.20:17-19 And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them,
Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes,
and they And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him : and the third day he shall rise again.

John 9:27 …"I have told you already, and ye did not hear: wherefore would ye hear it again? will ye also be his disciples?"
So now your going to be his Disciple, right?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2009,05:28)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2009,04:52) Tell me about John 17: 3-5 please, if you are the witness of God you should be able to answer my questions like you said you would. You haven't yet explained and you said you would explain was Jesus telling the truth when he said I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. John 17:3-5 I'm not asking what he said later i'm asking about John 17:3-5 is it correct or not? Hi BD, I don't know what you are getting at; but John 17:3-5 seems pretty self explanatory. He knew he was going to be delivered up(crucified). Matt.20:17-19 And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him : and the third day he shall rise again. John 9:27 …"I have told you already, and ye did not hear: wherefore would ye hear it again? will ye also be his disciples?" So now your going to be his Disciple, right?

So he was incorrect? He said the work WAS finished, he didn't say the work will be finished, he said WAS finished was he right?

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2009,08:26)

So he was incorrect? He said the work WAS finished, he didn't say the work will be finished, he said WAS finished was he right?

Hi BD,

Once again try to make The Bible to (force it) agree with the Quran.
You pull one verse out of context and then say is agrees with your faulty theology.
Understand how the bible was written.

You must understand biblical language; Jesus was speaking in faith, to carry out his father’s plan
of redemption. Romans 4:17 …(Faith is to) call those things which be not as though they were.

Rev.13:8  …the Lamb(Jesus) slain from the foundation of the world.
Heb.4:3 …although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
These two verses only say that Jesus Death was determined before the world began;
NOT that he died before the world began; only that is when it was determined to happen!

Jesus explained to his disciples he was going to Jerusalem to be crucified.
Matt.20:19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him : and the third day he shall rise again.

At this point in time he affirms his fate that he is going to go through with it.
John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour:
but for this cause(determined before the foundation of the world) came I unto this hour.

Likewise when Jesus stated “I have finished the work which thou(Holy Spirit) gavest me to do.
That did NOT mean that the work was already finished; but that He was determined to finish it.
That is why He said (while hanging on the cross) before He died “it is finished” and then died!

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2009,13:31)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2009,08:26) So he was incorrect? He said the work WAS finished, he didn't say the work will be finished, he said WAS finished was he right? Hi BD, Once again try to make The Bible to (force it) agree with the Quran. You pull one verse out of context and then say is agrees with your faulty theology. Understand how the bible was written. You must understand biblical language; Jesus was speaking in faith, to carry out his father’s plan of redemption. Romans 4:17 …(Faith is to) call those things which be not as though they were. Rev.13:8  …the Lamb(Jesus) slain from the foundation of the world. Heb.4:3 …although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. These two verses only say that Jesus Death was determined before the world began; NOT that he died before the world began; only that is when it was determined to happen! Jesus explained to his disciples he was going to Jerusalem to be crucified. Matt.20:19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him : and the third day he shall rise again. At this point in time he affirms his fate that he is going to go through with it. John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause(determined before the foundation of the world) came I unto this hour. Likewise when Jesus stated “I have finished the work which thou(Holy Spirit) gavest me to do. That did NOT mean that the work was already finished; but that He was determined to finish it. That is why He said (while hanging on the cross) before He died “it is finished” and then died!

ED,

That is not the case with John 17:3-5 because Jesus describes the work God gave him to do "Glorify God on earth" and Jesus said he had completed the job, why fight the scriptures?

When Jesus describes the plot to murder him he doesn't call that the work of God after all the people wanted to KILL him for doing the work of GOD. YOU believe that murdering Jesus was the work of GOD. IF So all of his accusers and the one who betrayed him should be heroes for they completed the Murder of Christ for the benefit of all humanity, is that what you believe?

You believe that if they did not KILL him you would have no way to be redeemed, so you NEED murder of the innocent to justify your sins.

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2009,14:38)

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2009,13:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2009,08:26) So he was incorrect? He said the work WAS finished, he didn't say the work will be finished, he said WAS finished was he right? Hi BD, Once again try to make The Bible to (force it) agree with the Quran. You pull one verse out of context and then say is agrees with your faulty theology. Understand how the bible was written. You must understand biblical language; Jesus was speaking in faith, to carry out his father’s plan of redemption. Romans 4:17 …(Faith is to) call those things which be not as though they were. Rev.13:8  …the Lamb(Jesus) slain from the foundation of the world. Heb.4:3 …although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. These two verses only say that Jesus Death was determined before the world began; NOT that he died before the world began; only that is when it was determined to happen! Jesus explained to his disciples he was going to Jerusalem to be crucified. Matt.20:19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him : and the third day he shall rise again. At this point in time he affirms his fate that he is going to go through with it. John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause(determined before the foundation of the world) came I unto this hour. Likewise when Jesus stated “I have finished the work which thou(Holy Spirit) gavest me to do. That did NOT mean that the work was already finished; but that He was determined to finish it. That is why He said (while hanging on the cross) before He died “it is finished” and then died! ED, That is not the case with John 17:3-5 because Jesus describes the work God gave him to do "Glorify God on earth" and Jesus said he had completed the job, why fight the scriptures? When Jesus describes the plot to murder him he doesn't call that the work of God after all the people wanted to KILL him for doing the work of GOD. YOU believe that murdering Jesus was the work of GOD. IF So all of his accusers and the one who betrayed him should be heroes for they completed the Murder of Christ for the benefit of all humanity, is that what you believe? You believe that if they did not KILL him you would have no way to be redeemed, so you NEED murder of the innocent to justify your sins.

It is you who ignores scripture; you didn't even read all the scriptures that prove my point(all in agreement).

You ignore all of them, instead insisting you are right.
Why? Because you believe you are right(don't bother me with the facts I already have my mind made up).
Instead of believing the scriptures; you instead choose to follow what men teach about God, instead of listening to GOD.
Continually trying to make "The Bible" (forcibly) agree with 'the Quran'; but they don't agree with each other.

Heb.9:22 …without shedding of (Jesus)blood is no remission (of sins).

Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them(those who crucified him);
for they know not what they do(carrying out the father's plan), the Gospel.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2009,15:28)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2009,14:38) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2009,13:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2009,08:26) So he was incorrect? He said the work WAS finished, he didn't say the work will be finished, he said WAS finished was he right? Hi BD, Once again try to make The Bible to (force it) agree with the Quran. You pull one verse out of context and then say is agrees with your faulty theology. Understand how the bible was written. You must understand biblical language; Jesus was speaking in faith, to carry out his father’s plan of redemption. Romans 4:17 …(Faith is to) call those things which be not as though they were. Rev.13:8  …the Lamb(Jesus) slain from the foundation of the world. Heb.4:3 …although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. These two verses only say that Jesus Death was determined before the world began; NOT that he died before the world began; only that is when it was determined to happen! Jesus explained to his disciples he was going to Jerusalem to be crucified. Matt.20:19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him : and the third day he shall rise again. At this point in time he affirms his fate that he is going to go through with it. John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause(determined before the foundation of the world) came I unto this hour. Likewise when Jesus stated “I have finished the work which thou(Holy Spirit) gavest me to do. That did NOT mean that the work was already finished; but that He was determined to finish it. That is why He said (while hanging on the cross) before He died “it is finished” and then died! ED, That is not the case with John 17:3-5 because Jesus describes the work God gave him to do "Glorify God on earth" and Jesus said he had completed the job, why fight the scriptures? When Jesus describes the plot to murder him he doesn't call that the work of God after all the people wanted to KILL him for doing the work of GOD. YOU believe that murdering Jesus was the work of GOD. IF So all of his accusers and the one who betrayed him should be heroes for they completed the Murder of Christ for the benefit of all humanity, is that what you believe? You believe that if they did not KILL him you would have no way to be redeemed, so you NEED murder of the innocent to justify your sins. It is you who ignores scripture; you didn't even read all the scriptures that prove my point(all in agreement). You ignore all of them, instead insisting you are right. Why? Because you believe you are right(don't bother me with the facts I already have my mind made up). Instead of believing the scriptures; you instead choose to follow what men teach about God, instead of listening to GOD. Continually trying to make "The Bible" (forcibly) agree with 'the Quran'; but they don't agree with each other. Heb.9:22 …without shedding of (Jesus)blood is no remission (of sins). Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them(those who crucified him); for they know not what they do(carrying out the father's plan), the Gospel.

So if Jesus died for your sins then why does Paul say:

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Philippians 2:11-13

Tell me what then is there to "work out"? If you believe that Jesus died for your sins what else is there to work out?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2009,15:28)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2009,14:38) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2009,13:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2009,08:26) So he was incorrect? He said the work WAS finished, he didn't say the work will be finished, he said WAS finished was he right? Hi BD, Once again try to make The Bible to (force it) agree with the Quran. You pull one verse out of context and then say is agrees with your faulty theology. Understand how the bible was written. You must understand biblical language; Jesus was speaking in faith, to carry out his father’s plan of redemption. Romans 4:17 …(Faith is to) call those things which be not as though they were. Rev.13:8  …the Lamb(Jesus) slain from the foundation of the world. Heb.4:3 …although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. These two verses only say that Jesus Death was determined before the world began; NOT that he died before the world began; only that is when it was determined to happen! Jesus explained to his disciples he was going to Jerusalem to be crucified. Matt.20:19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him : and the third day he shall rise again. At this point in time he affirms his fate that he is going to go through with it. John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause(determined before the foundation of the world) came I unto this hour. Likewise when Jesus stated “I have finished the work which thou(Holy Spirit) gavest me to do. That did NOT mean that the work was already finished; but that He was determined to finish it. That is why He said (while hanging on the cross) before He died “it is finished” and then died! ED, That is not the case with John 17:3-5 because Jesus describes the work God gave him to do "Glorify God on earth" and Jesus said he had completed the job, why fight the scriptures? When Jesus describes the plot to murder him he doesn't call that the work of God after all the people wanted to KILL him for doing the work of GOD. YOU believe that murdering Jesus was the work of GOD. IF So all of his accusers and the one who betrayed him should be heroes for they completed the Murder of Christ for the benefit of all humanity, is that what you believe? You believe that if they did not KILL him you would have no way to be redeemed, so you NEED murder of the innocent to justify your sins. It is you who ignores scripture; you didn't even read all the scriptures that prove my point(all in agreement). You ignore all of them, instead insisting you are right. Why? Because you believe you are right(don't bother me with the facts I already have my mind made up). Instead of believing the scriptures; you instead choose to follow what men teach about God, instead of listening to GOD. Continually trying to make "The Bible" (forcibly) agree with 'the Quran'; but they don't agree with each other. Heb.9:22 …without shedding of (Jesus)blood is no remission (of sins). Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them(those who crucified him); for they know not what they do(carrying out the father's plan), the Gospel.

You know it's interesting that Jesus according to the scriptures says "Father forgive for they know not what they do" but Jesus has also said

The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.
Mark 14:20-22

Isn't it true that the man who betrayed him also was a part of the "plan" but yet Jesus here according to the scriptures is very unforgiving of that person.

Perhaps him being crucified was not "the plan"

You seem to believe that God said "here's the plan you go to the people and they KILL you not knowing it will bring salvation"

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2009,15:55)

You know it's interesting that Jesus according to the scriptures says "Father forgive for they know not what they do" but Jesus has also said The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born. Mark 14:20-22 Isn't it true that the man who betrayed him also was a part of the "plan" but yet Jesus here according to the scriptures is very unforgiving of that person. Perhaps him being crucified was not "the plan" You seem to believe that God said "here's the plan you go to the people and they KILL you not knowing it will bring salvation"

Have you forgotten these scriptures, or do you just choose to ignore them.

Jesus explained to his disciples he was going to Jerusalem to be crucified.
Matt.20:19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.

Heb.4:3 …although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Rev.13:8  …the Lamb(Jesus) slain from the foundation of the world.

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour:
but for this cause(determined before the foundation of the world) came I unto this hour.

[NickHassan]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2009,15:49)

Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2009,15:28) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2009,14:38) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 22 2009,13:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2009,08:26) So he was incorrect? He said the work WAS finished, he didn't say the work will be finished, he said WAS finished was he right? Hi BD, Once again try to make The Bible to (force it) agree with the Quran. You pull one verse out of context and then say is agrees with your faulty theology. Understand how the bible was written. You must understand biblical language; Jesus was speaking in faith, to carry out his father’s plan of redemption. Romans 4:17 …(Faith is to) call those things which be not as though they were. Rev.13:8  …the Lamb(Jesus) slain from the foundation of the world. Heb.4:3 …although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. These two verses only say that Jesus Death was determined before the world began; NOT that he died before the world began; only that is when it was determined to happen! Jesus explained to his disciples he was going to Jerusalem to be crucified. Matt.20:19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him : and the third day he shall rise again. At this point in time he affirms his fate that he is going to go through with it. John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause(determined before the foundation of the world) came I unto this hour. Likewise when Jesus stated “I have finished the work which thou(Holy Spirit) gavest me to do. That did NOT mean that the work was already finished; but that He was determined to finish it. That is why He said (while hanging on the cross) before He died “it is finished” and then died! ED, That is not the case with John 17:3-5 because Jesus describes the work God gave him to do "Glorify God on earth" and Jesus said he had completed the job, why fight the scriptures? When Jesus describes the plot to murder him he doesn't call that the work of God after all the people wanted to KILL him for doing the work of GOD. YOU believe that murdering Jesus was the work of GOD. IF So all of his accusers and the one who betrayed him should be heroes for they completed the Murder of Christ for the benefit of all humanity, is that what you believe? You believe that if they did not KILL him you would have no way to be redeemed, so you NEED murder of the innocent to justify your sins. It is you who ignores scripture; you didn't even read all the scriptures that prove my point(all in agreement). You ignore all of them, instead insisting you are right. Why? Because you believe you are right(don't bother me with the facts I already have my mind made up). Instead of believing the scriptures; you instead choose to follow what men teach about God, instead of listening to GOD. Continually trying to make "The Bible" (forcibly) agree with 'the Quran'; but they don't agree with each other. Heb.9:22 …without shedding of (Jesus)blood is no remission (of sins). Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them(those who crucified him); for they know not what they do(carrying out the father's plan), the Gospel. So if Jesus died for your sins then why does Paul say: Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Philippians 2:11-13 Tell me what then is there to "work out"? If you believe that Jesus died for your sins what else is there to work out?

Hi BD,
You are gifted salvation and now you have to work for God.
The gift is so that the reconciliation can be offered to others.

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 22 2009,15:49)

So if Jesus died for your sins then why does Paul say: Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Philippians 2:11-13 Tell me what then is there to "work out"? If you believe that Jesus died for your sins what else is there to work out?

Hi BD,

You bring out an interesting point, but this one should be easy for you to understand.

Though sinners once decided what was right and what is wrong.
Once a persons sins are forgiven(because Jesus' death blots out their sins),
they put trust in God to help them change from their wicked ways. Now looking to God for guidance,
they still choose what do, working out between themselves and God what is right and what is wrong for them to do.

Somebody else doesn't get to decide for the what is right and what is wrong.
The choice is between them and God. God has to change people from the inside, through the Holy Spirit.

[Author]

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