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Hi ST,
It is the starting point.
It is impossible to please God without it.
It is the path.
But we must walk.Hi SS,
You say
“We need to see Jesus in every single person no matter how much we are impelled to dislike them.Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, INHERIT THE KINGDOM prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, AND YE GAVE ME MEAT: I WAS THIRSTY, AND YE GAVE ME DRINK: I WAS A STRANGER, AND YE TOOK ME IN:
Mat 25:36 Naked, AND YE CLOTHED ME: I was sick, AND YE VISITED ME: I was in prison, AND YE CAME UNTO ME. 'This is a popular misconception.
If you are saved in Christ you will not face this judgement but will have already passed from death to life.
If you are hoping for salvation through this mercy judgement you have not yet found the way of Christ.
You will then be judged by how you treated the brothers of Christ, the sons of God.Christ is not in all men
but only dwells in those
into whom he has been reborn.If you are in Christ you will know also the others in him by the Spirt you share.
Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it has not works, is dead, being alone.
Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, You have faith, and I have works: show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my worksAmen,
And the works are those done by God through us, the return on the Godly investment of grace to us.
They do not save us as we who are reborn in Christ are already saved. They are the natural expression of a branch in the vine.Well said Nick,
There cannot be true faith without works, but there can be works without true faith.However it is by the faith we are saved before we can even do our first good work (but the works will follow and are a sign of our true faith).
Works are a result of being born again, we are not born again based on our works.
Somewhat redundant statements but I believe it is important to know the difference.
Hi all:
When we were in the world practicing sin there came the moment that we believed that God had given His only begotten Son so that we could be reconciled to Him, that was Faith. It was not because of our “goodness” that we were saved but because we believed God's testimony regarding His Son and came to Him with a repentant heart. It was the blood of our Lord Jesus that washed away our sins, and we were born-again.
Hebrews 5:8-9 states about Jesus: “Though he were a Son, yet he learned obedience by the things that he suffered; and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all who obey him;”.
He obeyed God without sin even unto death on the cross, but although we as born again Christians are striving to obey him, we make mistakes, and so without the blood to wash away our sins, we could not be saved.
Therefore, salvation is by faith so that it might be by grace. Neither we nor the Jews under the Law of Moses earned our salvation through perfect obedience to God's eternal Law.
Hi,
But Jesus also said we must be born again of water and the Spirit.
That is obedient,
repentant
faith in action.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 03 2006,04:31) Hi,
But Jesus also said we must be born again of water and the Spirit.
That is obedient,
repentant
faith in action.
We are saved by faith! “BUT we have” to be baptized in water? If we are saved then aren't we born again? That which is born of flesh is flesh that which is born of water is water.So we are saved THEN we are baptized in water. I love the truth how it manages to wiggle it's way to the top!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 03 2006,04:31) Hi,
But Jesus also said we must be born again of water and the Spirit.
That is obedient,
repentant
faith in action.
Where does scripture say:
” we must be born 'again of water”?“Except one be 'born of water' and the Spirit, he……”
Hello All,
I believe every single person will be judged different depending on what they have been given and not by faith only.
Mat 25:29 FOR UNTO EVERY ONE THAT HATH SHALL BE GIVEN, AND HE SHALL HAVE ABUNDANCE: BUT FROM HIM THAT HATH NOT SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY EVEN THAT WHICH HE HATH.
Mat 25:30 AND CAST YE THE UNPROFITABLE SERVANT INTO OUTER DARKNESS: THERE SHALL BE WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.The teaching of Faith ALONE diminishes the work of the greatest fruit of the spirit which is Love! We will be judged according by the Fruits of Love and not by Faith only which is *Faith alone*! Faith and Love are fruits that come from the grace of hope.
1817 HOPE IS THE THEOLOGICAL VIRTUE by which we desire the kingdom of heaven and eternal life as our happiness, placing our trust in Christ's promises AND RELYING NOT ON OUR OWN STRENGTH, BUT ON THE HELP OF THE GRACE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. “Let us hold fast the confession of our HOPE without wavering, for he who promised is faithful.” “The Holy Spirit . . . he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, SO THAT WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE AND BECOME HEIRS IN HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE.”
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
1821 We can therefore HOPE in the glory of heaven promised by God to those who love him and do his will. In every circumstance, each one of us should HOPE, with the grace of God, to persevere “to the end” and to obtain the joy of heaven, as God's eternal reward FOR THE GOOD WORKS ACCOMPLISHED WITH THE GRACE OF CHRIST. In HOPE, the Church prays for “all men to be saved.” She longs to be united with Christ, her Bridegroom, in the glory of heaven:
Without God coming into the world there is no grace of hope!
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having NO HOPE, and WITHOUT GOD IN THE WORLD:
Jesus has come into the world and we now have HOPE.
Col 1:5 For the HOPE which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
Col 1:6 WHICH IS COME UNTO YOU, as it is in all the world; and bringeth FORTH FRUIT, as it doth also in you, SINCE THE DAY YE HEARD OF IT, AND KNEW THE GRACE of God in truth:Hope brings FORTH THE FRUIT. Hope is not listed as a fruit but instead we are called in Hope.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is LOVE, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, FAITH,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: AGAINST SUCH THERE IS NO LAW.There is no law against works of love just as there is no law against works of faith.
It is important to note that Faith is a just one fruit just as Love is one fruit.Many are called but few are chosen…. We are called in hope!
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, EVEN AS YE ARE CALLED IN ONE HOPE OF YOUR CALLING;
Tit 3:7 That being JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE, we SHOULD be made heirs according to the HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE.
I believe the first fruit that is shed abroad into our hearts is the fruit of Love.
Rom 5:5 And HOPE maketh not ashamed; because the LOVE of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; FOR GOD IS LOVE.
1Jo 4:16 AND WE HAVE KNOWN AND BELIEVED THE LOVE THAT GOD HATH TO US. GOD IS LOVE; and HE THAT DWELLETH IN LOVE DWELLETH IN GOD, and God in him.
1Jo 4:19 WE LOVE HIM, BECAUSE HE FIRST LOVED US.Paul teaches he was made a minister by the Hope of the gospel.
Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the HOPE of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; WHEREOF I PAUL AM MADE A MINISTER;
I believe we call out to the Lord in hope then the Holy Spirit comes into our hearts and we feel the Love of God we are given understanding of that Love because he has first loved us and we are overwhelmed and are filled with the fruits and gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Rom 8:23 And not only it, but ourselves also, WHO HAVE THE FIRSTFRUITS OF THE SPIRIT: even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption of the sons of God, the redemption of our body.
Rom 8:24 For we are SAVED BY HOPE. But HOPE that is seen is not HOPE. For what a man seeth, why doth he HOPE for?We are not saved by anything we can do,
not by OUR OWN Faith
not by OUR OWN Love that worketh
or not by anything that we can do by OUR OWN selves.WE ARE JUSTIFIED BY WHAT GRACES WE CHOSE TO RECEIVE
What I am trying to get across is that God chooses who to give his free gift of grace to. I believe this final judgment is on the fruits and gifts that we have been given after all even the demons believe.
This is because we can’t even say with faith that Jesus is Lord without the Fruit/gift of Faith.
1Co 12:3 WHEREFORE I GIVE YOU TO UNDERSTAND, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: AND THAT NO MAN CAN SAY THAT JESUS IS THE LORD, BUT BY THE HOLY GHOST.
Will the Holy Spirit remain with them on after the day of judgment if there works are not in love but instead work iniquity?
Mat 7:21 NOT EVERY ONE THAT SAITH UNTO ME, LORD, LORD, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 MANY WILL SAY TO ME IN THAT DAY, LORD, LORD, HAVE WE NOT PROPHESIED IN THY NAME? and IN THY NAME have CAST OUT DEVILS? and IN THY NAME DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?
Mat 7:23 AND THEN WILL I PROFESS UNTO THEM, I never knew you: DEPART FROM ME, YE THAT WORK INIQUITY.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, AND DOETH THEM, I WILL LIKEN HIM UNTO A WISE MAN, WHICH BUILT HIS HOUSE UPON A ROCK:Jesus says it is by there Fruits, not fruit…
Mat 7:20 Wherefore BY THEIR FRUITS ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 NOT EVERY ONE THAT SAITH UNTO ME, LORD, LORD, shall ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN; BUT HE THAT DOETH the will of my Father which is in heaven.The fruit of the teaching of Justification by Faith alone makes way for excuses that *some* use to bathe in Luke warm works with the free ticket to relax and put the harder convictions to one side e.g. defending the unborn, the MOST innocent and helpless of all…….
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, YE HAVE DONE IT UNTO ME.
Why not teach that we are justified by Faith and works of Love when scripture teaches it time and time again, after all no one can escape the judgment seat of Christ.
Mat 15:8 This people HONOURETH ME WITH THEIR LIPS: BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR FROM ME.
Mat 15:9 And in vain do they worship me, teaching doctrines and commandments of men.
Mat 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man: but what cometh out of the mouth, THIS DEFILETH A MAN.
Mat 15:18 But the things which proceed out of the mouth, COME FORTH FROM THE HEART, and those things defile a man.When we Love God with all our heart and our neighbor as ourselves our words that proceed from our mouth will not reap damnation but justification!
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, THAT EVERY IDLE WORD THAT MEN SHALL SPEAK, THEY SHALL GIVE ACCOUNT THEREOF IN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT.
Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Luther’s man made teaching has massive problems.
1: Scripture explicitly rejects the idea of Justification by faith alone
2: Scripture also teaches that it is BY WORKS of OTHER FRUITS a man is justified to receive the free gift of grace.If it’s good enough for the scripture to teach that we are justified by w
orks of
Love, why not teach it? Why teach something that is rejected by scripture?
I understand we need to teach works inside of grace just as we teach faith inside of grace! After all people can have faith in all types of so called Gods….stars, karma, men, animals, the earth and devils/demons etc etc.It is by the Love and Faith that comes from the Holy that we are Justified by.
Love even covers *the multitude* of sins
1Pe 4:8 AND ABOVE ALL THINGS HAVE FERVENT CHARITY among yourselves: FOR CHARITY SHALL COVER THE MULTITUDE OF SINS.
Faith is not Love!
This is Faith, and no greater was found in Israel. The centurion walked by faith and not by sight.
2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
Mat 8:8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
Mat 8:9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
Mat 8:10 WHEN JESUS HEARD IT, HE MARVELLED, AND SAID TO THEM THAT FOLLOWED, VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, I HAVE NOT FOUND SO GREAT FAITH, NO, NOT IN ISRAEL.Even if you have enough Faith to cast out demons do many wonderful works by faith [e.g in the name of Jesus], speak in tongues as an angel and EVEN remove mountains you will have to appear before the judgment set of THE LORD OF LORDS.
2Co 5:10 FOR WE MUST ALL APPEAR BEFORE THE JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST; that every one may receive the things done in his body, ACCORDING TO THAT HE HATH DONE, WHETHER IT BE GOOD OR BAD.
For we *must*….**ALL** appear before the judgment seat of Christ.
1Co 13:1 THOUGH I SPEAK WITH THE TONGUES OF MEN AND OF ANGELS, and have not CHARITY, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
What does it profit a man to say he has faith alone without works of love?
Let’s put Love back in its rightful place, above Faith where it belongs!
Love + Faith = JustificationJustification = the free gift of SALVATION
1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, THESE THREE; BUT THE GREATEST OF THESE IS CHARITY.
It doesn’t say now abideth faith alone, Faith can’t even compare to Love….Lets not insult the greatest fruit that the Holy Spirit gives us.
Love and blessings in the name of Jesus
Quote (life_of_praise @ Oct. 02 2006,21:03) Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it has not works, is dead, being alone.
Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, You have faith, and I have works: show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works
Amen!Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that BY WORKS A MAN IS JUSTIFIED, and NOT BY FAITH ONLY.
“Faith alone” is “faith only” they are written with the same Greek word,
G3440 μόνον monon mon'-on
NEUTER OF G3441 AS ADVERB; merely: – ALONE, but, ONLY.as above
G3441 μόνος monos mon'-os
Probably from G3306; remaining, that is, SOLE OR SINGLE; by implication mere: – ALONE, ONLY, BY THEMSELVES.Jam 2:14 WHAT DOTH IT PROFIT, my brethren, though a man SAY HE HATH FAITH, AND HAVE NOT WORKS? CAN FAITH SAVE HIM?
Jam 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jam 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; WHAT DOTH IT PROFIT?What does Faith profit without Love the greatest gift of the Holy Spirit.
With Love in the name of Jesus
Quote (Scripture Seeker @ Oct. 03 2006,10:59) Hello All, I believe every single person will be judged different depending on what they have been given and not by faith only.
Mat 25:29 FOR UNTO EVERY ONE THAT HATH SHALL BE GIVEN, AND HE SHALL HAVE ABUNDANCE: BUT FROM HIM THAT HATH NOT SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY EVEN THAT WHICH HE HATH.
Mat 25:30 AND CAST YE THE UNPROFITABLE SERVANT INTO OUTER DARKNESS: THERE SHALL BE WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.The teaching of Faith ALONE diminishes the work of the greatest fruit of the spirit which is Love! We will be judged according by the Fruits of Love and not by Faith only which is *Faith alone*! Faith and Love are fruits that come from the grace of hope.
1817 HOPE IS THE THEOLOGICAL VIRTUE by which we desire the kingdom of heaven and eternal life as our happiness, placing our trust in Christ's promises AND RELYING NOT ON OUR OWN STRENGTH, BUT ON THE HELP OF THE GRACE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. “Let us hold fast the confession of our HOPE without wavering, for he who promised is faithful.” “The Holy Spirit . . . he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, SO THAT WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE AND BECOME HEIRS IN HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE.”
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
1821 We can therefore HOPE in the glory of heaven promised by God to those who love him and do his will. In every circumstance, each one of us should HOPE, with the grace of God, to persevere “to the end” and to obtain the joy of heaven, as God's eternal reward FOR THE GOOD WORKS ACCOMPLISHED WITH THE GRACE OF CHRIST. In HOPE, the Church prays for “all men to be saved.” She longs to be united with Christ, her Bridegroom, in the glory of heaven:
Without God coming into the world there is no grace of hope!
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having NO HOPE, and WITHOUT GOD IN THE WORLD:
Jesus has come into the world and we now have HOPE.
Col 1:5 For the HOPE which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
Col 1:6 WHICH IS COME UNTO YOU, as it is in all the world; and bringeth FORTH FRUIT, as it doth also in you, SINCE THE DAY YE HEARD OF IT, AND KNEW THE GRACE of God in truth:Hope brings FORTH THE FRUIT. Hope is not listed as a fruit but instead we are called in Hope.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is LOVE, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, FAITH,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: AGAINST SUCH THERE IS NO LAW.There is no law against works of love just as there is no law against works of faith.
It is important to note that Faith is a just one fruit just as Love is one fruit.Many are called but few are chosen…. We are called in hope!
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, EVEN AS YE ARE CALLED IN ONE HOPE OF YOUR CALLING;
Tit 3:7 That being JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE, we SHOULD be made heirs according to the HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE.
I believe the first fruit that is shed abroad into our hearts is the fruit of Love.
Rom 5:5 And HOPE maketh not ashamed; because the LOVE of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; FOR GOD IS LOVE.
1Jo 4:16 AND WE HAVE KNOWN AND BELIEVED THE LOVE THAT GOD HATH TO US. GOD IS LOVE; and HE THAT DWELLETH IN LOVE DWELLETH IN GOD, and God in him.
1Jo 4:19 WE LOVE HIM, BECAUSE HE FIRST LOVED US.Paul teaches he was made a minister by the Hope of the gospel.
Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the HOPE of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; WHEREOF I PAUL AM MADE A MINISTER;
I believe we call out to the Lord in hope then the Holy Spirit comes into our hearts and we feel the Love of God we are given understanding of that Love because he has first loved us and we are overwhelmed and are filled with the fruits and gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Rom 8:23 And not only it, but ourselves also, WHO HAVE THE FIRSTFRUITS OF THE SPIRIT: even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption of the sons of God, the redemption of our body.
Rom 8:24 For we are SAVED BY HOPE. But HOPE that is seen is not HOPE. For what a man seeth, why doth he HOPE for?We are not saved by anything we can do,
not by OUR OWN Faith
not by OUR OWN Love that worketh
or not by anything that we can do by OUR OWN selves.WE ARE JUSTIFIED BY WHAT GRACES WE CHOSE TO RECEIVE
What I am trying to get across is that God chooses who to give his free gift of grace to. I believe this final judgment is on the fruits and gifts that we have been given after all even the demons believe.
This is because we can’t even say with faith that Jesus is Lord without the Fruit/gift of Faith.
1Co 12:3 WHEREFORE I GIVE YOU TO UNDERSTAND, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: AND THAT NO MAN CAN SAY THAT JESUS IS THE LORD, BUT BY THE HOLY GHOST.
Will the Holy Spirit remain with them on after the day of judgment if there works are not in love but instead work iniquity?
Mat 7:21 NOT EVERY ONE THAT SAITH UNTO ME, LORD, LORD, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 MANY WILL SAY TO ME IN THAT DAY, LORD, LORD, HAVE WE NOT PROPHESIED IN THY NAME? and IN THY NAME have CAST OUT DEVILS? and IN THY NAME DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?
Mat 7:23 AND THEN WILL I PROFESS UNTO THEM, I never knew you: DEPART FROM ME, YE THAT WORK INIQUITY.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, AND DOETH THEM, I WILL LIKEN HIM UNTO A WISE MAN, WHICH BUILT HIS HOUSE UPON A ROCK:Jesus says it is by there Fruits, not fruit…
Mat 7:20 Wherefore BY THEIR FRUITS ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 NOT EVERY ONE THAT SAITH UNTO ME, LORD, LORD, shall ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN; BUT HE THAT DOETH the will of my Father which is in heaven.The fruit of the teaching of Justification by Faith alone makes way for excuses that *some* use to bathe in Luke warm works with the free ticket to relax and put the harder convictions to one side e.g. defending the unborn, the MOST innocent and helpless of all…….
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, YE HAVE DONE IT UNTO ME.
Why not teach that we are justified by Faith and works of Love when scripture teaches it time and time again, after all no one can escape the judgment seat of Christ.
Mat 15:8 This people HONOURETH ME WITH THEIR LIPS: BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR FROM ME.
Mat 15:9 And in vain do they worship me, teaching doctrines and commandments of men.
Mat 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man: but what cometh out of the mouth, THIS DEFILETH A MAN.
Mat 15:18 But the things which proceed out of the mouth, COME FORTH FROM THE HEART, and those things defile a man.When we Love God with all our heart and our neighbor as ourselves our words that proceed from our mouth will not reap damnation but justification!
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, THAT EVERY IDLE WORD THAT MEN SHALL SPEAK, THEY SHALL GIVE ACCOUNT THEREOF IN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT.
Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Luther’s man made teaching has massive problems.
1: Scripture explicitly rejects the i
dea of Justification by faith alone
2: Scripture also teaches that it is BY WORKS of OTHER FRUITS a man is justified to receive the free gift of grace.If it’s good enough for the scripture to teach that we are justified by works of
Love, why not teach it? Why teach something that is rejected by scripture?
I understand we need to teach works inside of grace just as we teach faith inside of grace! After all people can have faith in all types of so called Gods….stars, karma, men, animals, the earth and devils/demons etc etc.It is by the Love and Faith that comes from the Holy that we are Justified by.
Love even covers *the multitude* of sins
1Pe 4:8 AND ABOVE ALL THINGS HAVE FERVENT CHARITY among yourselves: FOR CHARITY SHALL COVER THE MULTITUDE OF SINS.
Faith is not Love!
This is Faith, and no greater was found in Israel. The centurion walked by faith and not by sight.
2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
Mat 8:8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
Mat 8:9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
Mat 8:10 WHEN JESUS HEARD IT, HE MARVELLED, AND SAID TO THEM THAT FOLLOWED, VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, I HAVE NOT FOUND SO GREAT FAITH, NO, NOT IN ISRAEL.Even if you have enough Faith to cast out demons do many wonderful works by faith [e.g in the name of Jesus], speak in tongues as an angel and EVEN remove mountains you will have to appear before the judgment set of THE LORD OF LORDS.
2Co 5:10 FOR WE MUST ALL APPEAR BEFORE THE JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST; that every one may receive the things done in his body, ACCORDING TO THAT HE HATH DONE, WHETHER IT BE GOOD OR BAD.
For we *must*….**ALL** appear before the judgment seat of Christ.
1Co 13:1 THOUGH I SPEAK WITH THE TONGUES OF MEN AND OF ANGELS, and have not CHARITY, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
What does it profit a man to say he has faith alone without works of love?
Let’s put Love back in its rightful place, above Faith where it belongs!
Love + Faith = JustificationJustification = the free gift of SALVATION
1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, THESE THREE; BUT THE GREATEST OF THESE IS CHARITY.
It doesn’t say now abideth faith alone, Faith can’t even compare to Love….Lets not insult the greatest fruit that the Holy Spirit gives us.
Love and blessings in the name of Jesus
Our reward is not salvation that is a gift. We receive a reward according to our good works.1Co 3:13 each man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it is revealed in fire; and the fire itself shall prove each man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work shall abide which he built thereon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as through fire.
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 03 2006,10:20) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 03 2006,04:31) Hi,
But Jesus also said we must be born again of water and the Spirit.
That is obedient,
repentant
faith in action.
Where does scripture say:
” we must be born 'again of water”?“Except one be 'born of water' and the Spirit, he……”
Is it the water that saves?Quote (kenrch @ Oct. 03 2006,11:29) Quote (Scripture Seeker @ Oct. 03 2006,10:59) Hello All, I believe every single person will be judged different depending on what they have been given and not by faith only.
Mat 25:29 FOR UNTO EVERY ONE THAT HATH SHALL BE GIVEN, AND HE SHALL HAVE ABUNDANCE: BUT FROM HIM THAT HATH NOT SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY EVEN THAT WHICH HE HATH.
Mat 25:30 AND CAST YE THE UNPROFITABLE SERVANT INTO OUTER DARKNESS: THERE SHALL BE WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.The teaching of Faith ALONE diminishes the work of the greatest fruit of the spirit which is Love! We will be judged according by the Fruits of Love and not by Faith only which is *Faith alone*! Faith and Love are fruits that come from the grace of hope.
1817 HOPE IS THE THEOLOGICAL VIRTUE by which we desire the kingdom of heaven and eternal life as our happiness, placing our trust in Christ's promises AND RELYING NOT ON OUR OWN STRENGTH, BUT ON THE HELP OF THE GRACE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. “Let us hold fast the confession of our HOPE without wavering, for he who promised is faithful.” “The Holy Spirit . . . he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, SO THAT WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE AND BECOME HEIRS IN HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE.”
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
1821 We can therefore HOPE in the glory of heaven promised by God to those who love him and do his will. In every circumstance, each one of us should HOPE, with the grace of God, to persevere “to the end” and to obtain the joy of heaven, as God's eternal reward FOR THE GOOD WORKS ACCOMPLISHED WITH THE GRACE OF CHRIST. In HOPE, the Church prays for “all men to be saved.” She longs to be united with Christ, her Bridegroom, in the glory of heaven:
Without God coming into the world there is no grace of hope!
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having NO HOPE, and WITHOUT GOD IN THE WORLD:
Jesus has come into the world and we now have HOPE.
Col 1:5 For the HOPE which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
Col 1:6 WHICH IS COME UNTO YOU, as it is in all the world; and bringeth FORTH FRUIT, as it doth also in you, SINCE THE DAY YE HEARD OF IT, AND KNEW THE GRACE of God in truth:Hope brings FORTH THE FRUIT. Hope is not listed as a fruit but instead we are called in Hope.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is LOVE, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, FAITH,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: AGAINST SUCH THERE IS NO LAW.There is no law against works of love just as there is no law against works of faith.
It is important to note that Faith is a just one fruit just as Love is one fruit.Many are called but few are chosen…. We are called in hope!
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, EVEN AS YE ARE CALLED IN ONE HOPE OF YOUR CALLING;
Tit 3:7 That being JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE, we SHOULD be made heirs according to the HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE.
I believe the first fruit that is shed abroad into our hearts is the fruit of Love.
Rom 5:5 And HOPE maketh not ashamed; because the LOVE of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; FOR GOD IS LOVE.
1Jo 4:16 AND WE HAVE KNOWN AND BELIEVED THE LOVE THAT GOD HATH TO US. GOD IS LOVE; and HE THAT DWELLETH IN LOVE DWELLETH IN GOD, and God in him.
1Jo 4:19 WE LOVE HIM, BECAUSE HE FIRST LOVED US.Paul teaches he was made a minister by the Hope of the gospel.
Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the HOPE of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; WHEREOF I PAUL AM MADE A MINISTER;
I believe we call out to the Lord in hope then the Holy Spirit comes into our hearts and we feel the Love of God we are given understanding of that Love because he has first loved us and we are overwhelmed and are filled with the fruits and gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Rom 8:23 And not only it, but ourselves also, WHO HAVE THE FIRSTFRUITS OF THE SPIRIT: even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption of the sons of God, the redemption of our body.
Rom 8:24 For we are SAVED BY HOPE. But HOPE that is seen is not HOPE. For what a man seeth, why doth he HOPE for?We are not saved by anything we can do,
not by OUR OWN Faith
not by OUR OWN Love that worketh
or not by anything that we can do by OUR OWN selves.WE ARE JUSTIFIED BY WHAT GRACES WE CHOSE TO RECEIVE
What I am trying to get across is that God chooses who to give his free gift of grace to. I believe this final judgment is on the fruits and gifts that we have been given after all even the demons believe.
This is because we can’t even say with faith that Jesus is Lord without the Fruit/gift of Faith.
1Co 12:3 WHEREFORE I GIVE YOU TO UNDERSTAND, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: AND THAT NO MAN CAN SAY THAT JESUS IS THE LORD, BUT BY THE HOLY GHOST.
Will the Holy Spirit remain with them on after the day of judgment if there works are not in love but instead work iniquity?
Mat 7:21 NOT EVERY ONE THAT SAITH UNTO ME, LORD, LORD, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 MANY WILL SAY TO ME IN THAT DAY, LORD, LORD, HAVE WE NOT PROPHESIED IN THY NAME? and IN THY NAME have CAST OUT DEVILS? and IN THY NAME DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?
Mat 7:23 AND THEN WILL I PROFESS UNTO THEM, I never knew you: DEPART FROM ME, YE THAT WORK INIQUITY.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, AND DOETH THEM, I WILL LIKEN HIM UNTO A WISE MAN, WHICH BUILT HIS HOUSE UPON A ROCK:Jesus says it is by there Fruits, not fruit…
Mat 7:20 Wherefore BY THEIR FRUITS ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 NOT EVERY ONE THAT SAITH UNTO ME, LORD, LORD, shall ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN; BUT HE THAT DOETH the will of my Father which is in heaven.The fruit of the teaching of Justification by Faith alone makes way for excuses that *some* use to bathe in Luke warm works with the free ticket to relax and put the harder convictions to one side e.g. defending the unborn, the MOST innocent and helpless of all…….
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, YE HAVE DONE IT UNTO ME.
Why not teach that we are justified by Faith and works of Love when scripture teaches it time and time again, after all no one can escape the judgment seat of Christ.
Mat 15:8 This people HONOURETH ME WITH THEIR LIPS: BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR FROM ME.
Mat 15:9 And in vain do they worship me, teaching doctrines and commandments of men.
Mat 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man: but what cometh out of the mouth, THIS DEFILETH A MAN.
Mat 15:18 But the things which proceed out of the mouth, COME FORTH FROM THE HEART, and those things defile a man.When we Love God with all our heart and our neighbor as ourselves our words that proceed from our mouth will not reap damnation but justification!
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, THAT EVERY IDLE WORD THAT MEN SHALL SPEAK, THEY SHALL GIVE ACCOUNT THEREOF I
N THE DAY OF JUDGMENT.
Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Luther’s man made teaching has massive problems.
1: Scripture explicitly rejects the idea of Justification by faith alone
2: Scripture also teaches that it is BY WORKS of OTHER FRUITS a man is justified to receive the free gift of grace.If it’s good enough for the scripture to teach that we are justified by works of
Love, why not teach it? Why teach something that is rejected by scripture?
I understand we need to teach works inside of grace just as we teach faith inside of grace! After all people can have faith in all types of so called Gods….stars, karma, men, animals, the earth and devils/demons etc etc.It is by the Love and Faith that comes from the Holy that we are Justified by.
Love even covers *the multitude* of sins
1Pe 4:8 AND ABOVE ALL THINGS HAVE FERVENT CHARITY among yourselves: FOR CHARITY SHALL COVER THE MULTITUDE OF SINS.
Faith is not Love!
This is Faith, and no greater was found in Israel. The centurion walked by faith and not by sight.
2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
Mat 8:8 The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.
Mat 8:9 For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
Mat 8:10 WHEN JESUS HEARD IT, HE MARVELLED, AND SAID TO THEM THAT FOLLOWED, VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, I HAVE NOT FOUND SO GREAT FAITH, NO, NOT IN ISRAEL.Even if you have enough Faith to cast out demons do many wonderful works by faith [e.g in the name of Jesus], speak in tongues as an angel and EVEN remove mountains you will have to appear before the judgment set of THE LORD OF LORDS.
2Co 5:10 FOR WE MUST ALL APPEAR BEFORE THE JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST; that every one may receive the things done in his body, ACCORDING TO THAT HE HATH DONE, WHETHER IT BE GOOD OR BAD.
For we *must*….**ALL** appear before the judgment seat of Christ.
1Co 13:1 THOUGH I SPEAK WITH THE TONGUES OF MEN AND OF ANGELS, and have not CHARITY, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
What does it profit a man to say he has faith alone without works of love?
Let’s put Love back in its rightful place, above Faith where it belongs!
Love + Faith = JustificationJustification = the free gift of SALVATION
1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, THESE THREE; BUT THE GREATEST OF THESE IS CHARITY.
It doesn’t say now abideth faith alone, Faith can’t even compare to Love….Lets not insult the greatest fruit that the Holy Spirit gives us.
Love and blessings in the name of Jesus
Our reward is not salvation that is a gift. We receive a reward according to our good works.1Co 3:13 each man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it is revealed in fire; and the fire itself shall prove each man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work shall abide which he built thereon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as through fire.
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
Hi Kenrch,Sorry if I did not made this clear but I agree it is a gift.
1697 – a catechesis of grace, FOR IT IS BY GRACE THAT WE ARE SAVED and AGAIN IT IS BY GRACE THAT OUR WORKS CAN BEAR FRUIT FOR ETERNAL LIFE;
1722 Such beatitude surpasses the understanding and powers of man. It comes from AN ENTIRELY FREE GIFT of God: whence it is called supernatural, AS IS THE GRACE THAT DISPOSES MAN TO ENTER INTO THE DIVINE JOY.
1996 Our JUSTIFICATION COMES FROM THE GRACE OF GOD. GRACE IS FAVOR, THE FREE AND UNDESERVED help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.
2784 THE FREE GIFT of adoption requires on our part continual conversion and new life. Praying to our Father should develop in us two fundamental dispositions:
First, the desire to become like him: though created in his image, we are restored to his likeness BY GRACE; AND WE MUST RESPOND TO THIS GRACE.Jesus will judge us on our Love becuase scripture teaches we will be justified by works of Love and not just Faith alone.
Faith alone is explicitly rejected by scripture. The KJV even says if you have ALL faith it means nothing without Love.
There is only one fruit that can stand above faith and it should not be over looked.Peace and Love in the name of Jesus.
Seeking Scripture,
“Jesus will judge us on our Love becuase scripture teaches we 'will be justified by works' of Love and not just Faith alone”.
At the risK of being persecuted let me try to explain.
Without Faith there is no love. One has to have faith in order to be saved. Once one is saved the person cannot help but love.
You cannot love without having faith. You can lust but not love.
It is “faith” that we believe in Jesus at first. Then “after” we are saved comes the fruit of the Spirit of which is love.
What the scriptures are saying are you can't love unless you had faith to start with. Therefore if you “don't love” then you were “never saved” because you had no faith. But the works of even faith does not save us. That is a free gift.
If one should die after receiving Jesus through faith and die without having the opportunity to show forth the fruits he is still saved because salvation is a free gift we cannot purchase it not even through water baptism.Hi SS,
Whence are these weak human teachings?
Are they from your church tradition?
Would you put them alongside scripture as equal in veracity?They are offensive to those who are not so enjoined to your tradition and it would be better not to bring them or at least to specify their origins.
1817 HOPE IS THE THEOLOGICAL VIRTUE by which we desire the kingdom of heaven and eternal life as our happiness, placing our trust in Christ's promises AND RELYING NOT ON OUR OWN STRENGTH, BUT ON THE HELP OF THE GRACE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. “Let us hold fast the confession of our HOPE without wavering, for he who promised is faithful.” “The Holy Spirit . . . he poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, SO THAT WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE AND BECOME HEIRS IN HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE.”
1821 We can therefore HOPE in the glory of heaven promised by God to those who love him and do his will. In every circumstance, each one of us should HOPE, with the grace of God, to persevere “to the end” and to obtain the joy of heaven, as God's eternal reward FOR THE GOOD WORKS ACCOMPLISHED WITH THE GRACE OF CHRIST. In HOPE, the Church prays for “all men to be saved.” She longs to be united with Christ, her Bridegroom, in the glory of heaven:Hi SS,
Do you believe all men appear before the white throne judgement?
Do you agree there are two resurrections?So what do you make of Jn 5?
“24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”
And
1Jn 3.14
“14We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death”Hi SS,
You say
“I believe every single person will be judged different depending on what they have been given and not by faith only.”Jesus specified the basis of judgement
Jn 3
'14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil”
So rejection of the Son and the salvation message of being reborn into him by water and the Spirit is the dividing line.
Jews will have the Law as another reference point but this does not exist for gentiles
Rom 2
“11For there is no respect of persons with God.12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.”
Whoever wishes to save his own life will lose it and no man can boast before God of his own righteousness by works.
Hi SS,
You say
“I believe we call out to the Lord in hope then the Holy Spirit comes into our hearts and we feel the Love of God we are given understanding of that Love because he has first loved us and we are overwhelmed and are filled with the fruits and gifts of the Holy Spirit.”Paul wrote all his letters to the saved, not the unsaved.
So everything he says is not to show men how to find salvation, because thay are already in Christ, but how to work out that salvation serving the Master in our appointed roles.So hope is real as for those it is written to their names are written in heaven, because they have obeyed the righteous demand of God that they be reborn into the Son and they recognise the seal of The Holy Spirit on them by the gifts they are entrusted with. Hope is not the vain hope of salvation through our own works but in inheritance gained for us by the work done by Christ, that we have become enjoined with.
Hi Scripture Seeker:
I thought I had posted relative to this matter, but somehow, what I thought I posted isn't showing.
When we were in the world practicing sin, there came a time when we believed God's testimony that He gave His only begotten Son so that we could be reconciled to Him. Romans 10:17 states: “So then faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God”. When we believed, we came to God with a repentant heart through our Lord Jesus, and his blood washed away all of our sins.
After we are born again, Hebrews 5:8-9 states about Jesus, “Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all who obey him;”. And so James 2:17-18 states: “Even so faith, it hath not works, is dead being alone, yea, a man say, thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works”.
Jesus obeyed God without sin even unto death on the cross, but we who are born again Christians who are striving to obey him make mistakes, and therefore, we could not be saved without the shed blood of our Lord Jesus to wash our sins away when we do make a mistake.
Therefore, salvation is by faith so that it might be by grace. Neither we who are born again Christians nor the the Jews who were striving to obey God under the Law of Moses have been saved through perfect obedience to God's eternal law.
Thank God for his mercy! It is wonderful to know that I am not condemned if I make a mistake.
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