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Hi Woutlaw,
The point is we know almost nothing about the divine nature. All we do know is that we could not grasp even a part of it if we were told. Yet we dare to try to define God and put Him in a box that fits in our tiny minds. We dare to define divine nature according to our pitifully weak human dimensions. It is a joke.What we do know is that God had a son and sent him into the world to save us.
Hi SS,
You say
“The Word of God shows that the Pharisees did not understand how Jesus was referring to God as his Father. Jesus spoke many times of his Father to them but they did not understand the relationship.(ASV) They perceived not that he spake to them of the Father.
(DRB) And they understood not that he called God his Father.
(KJVA) They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
Joh 8:27 And they understood not that he called God his Father. “
But in context
“25Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.26I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
27They understood not that he spake to them of the Father”
It relates to the specific words spoken surely.
Hi SS,
“28Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.”So clearly he is not saying he is God who is the Father,
but the messiah whom they had failed to recognise.Hi SS,
You say
“Jesus being lifted up and then pierced shows WHO he really is, it shows that he is the ONE Lord God who said they shall look upon me the one they have pierced!”God is spirit, not flesh
is He not?Hi SS,
You say
“So when Jesus is called the Son of God, he is revealed as one with the Father, the same equal essence this is how the Father is in the Son and the Son in the Father. “So it does not mean he is the Son of God then?
In fact you say it means the reverse-he never was a son at all?“No offense intended but there are many warnings about denying Jesus”
Have you not just done this, denied the Son of God before men?
Matt 10.33
” 33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. “Hi SS,
You say
“We also hope to be Sons of God.But we are not born this way we need to be ADOPTED.
Notice that the adoption is through Jesus “the Gate” and UNTO himself the Lord.Eph 1:5 Who hath predestinated us unto the ADOPTION of children through Jesus Christ UNTO HIMSELF: according to the purpose OF HIS WILL: “
Are we to be sons of Jesus or brothers of his?
Heb 2
” 10For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
13And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.”
Both.
But the sonship to Jesus is because of obedience to him and under his obedience to God.Quote (Scripture Seeker @ Jan. 18 2006,05:44) We are saved by Gods grace and Gods grace alone, but how do we accept this free gift? is it by “Faith alone” or “Faith + works”.
I think it is very clear that it is by faith that works in love. Every scripture that condemns “works of the law” or “deeds of the laws” being the old ceremonial laws of circumcision and justification without Jesus, by Passover sacrifices etc. These ceremonial laws have been done away with by Christ.But not the commandments and not the law’s of charity (goodwill or good works) for it is by our works we shall show our faith.
I believe it is by faith alone we are saved, but what is faith other then putting our trust in the revelation, (knowledge alone won't do it), of what Jesus did for us on the cross and determining to turn from seeking my will to seeking His? If I have faith I've accepted that there is a change required.Everything required is summed up in love. Love will not demand it's own but puts others first. I believe this to be the very essence of the “works” required having nothing to do with adhering to the law, other then love will not by it's very nature violate the law. This is the spirit of the law, not the letter (the letter kills).
Hi ST,
You say
“I believe it is by faith alone we are saved, “
What of the role of God?
Can we save ourselves?
Does not scripture say anyone who wants to save his own life will lose it?
Faith is the beginning of our role but even faith is of grace.
Faith alone excludes repentance and obedience?Nick,
Did you read the whole post? I have a poor way of putting things, as I've mentioned before, but as I see it we more or less agree. you cannot have true faith without accepting that a change is required.Hi ST,
It is not just what we say
but if we are not clear about things,
some could misread our views and be scandalised.For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God, not of works lest any should boast.
So it is by GRACE that we are saved THROUGH the avenue of faith which is itself a work of God's grace to us, being a gift from Him. Works don't seem to come into the equation – the work of salvation is a finished work of grace from what I understand of the Bible.
Grace is what God has done (a finished work) for us.
Works is what we do in appreciation of this (no works shows a lack of gratitude)
Faith is the facility whereby God extends this grace to us.IMHO
Hi Malcolm
I see where you are coming from but Paul only ever rejects the works of the old law. There is no law against works of the new law.
I have posted this before, I’m not sure if you have seen it? Here it is anyway
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we SHOULD walk in them.
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called UNCIRCUMCISION by that which is called the CIRCUMCISION in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, HAVING NO HOPE, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, AND HATH BROKEN DOWN THE MIDDLE WALL OF PARTITION BETWEEN US;Jesus broke down the middle wall of partition, THE CEREMONIAL LAW, that made the great feud, and was the badge of the Jews' peculiarity, called the partition-wall by way of allusion to the partition in the temple, WHICH SEPARATED THE COURT OF THE GENTILES FROM THAT INTO WHICH THE JEWS ONLY HAD LIBERTY TO ENTER.
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
So we can clearly see that Eph 2:9 is NOT talking about good works.
Eph 2:10 says that we are created unto good works which God hath before ordained that we SHOULD walk in them. But just because one has faith in Jesus doesn’t mean they will walk in them, we have free will even when we have faith in him.
We can’t say that everyone with faith walks in all the ways which God has before ordained.Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith WITHOUT THE DEEDS OF THE LAW.
I do not have a problem with this verse! I believe we are saved “by faith” but “not by faith alone”.
The “deeds of the law” is talking about the ceremonial law i.e. circumcision for Jews this is clearly shown if you keep reading the next couple of verses. Rom 3:29, 30 and is also shown in the first verse of this same chapter (Rom 3:1)
As well as in Rom 2:25-29 which is leading up to chapter 3 and finishing of in Rom 4:9-12.
Rom 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the CIRCUMCISION BY FAITH, and UNCIRCUMCISION THROUGH FAITH.Rom 3:1 WHAT ADVANTAGE THEN HATH THE JEW? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Confusion occurs by forgetting about the Jews, Paul never condemns works of love but he clearly condemns “deeds of the law” or “works of the law” the works that Jews TRY TO JUSTIFY THEMSELVES WITHOUT JESUS. These ceremonial laws have been done away with and the JEWS can no longer boost. Paul rejects ceremonial works of the law BECAUSE THESE WORKS REJECT JESUS SACRIFICE. Jesus replaces circumcision with baptism and replaces the unblemished lamb sacrifices on the Passover with his perfect and unblemished sacrifice on the Passover, which he now offers to us after the order of Melchizedek in the appearance of bread and wine.
I have not stated all the scriptures where Paul condemns works, but I have studied many others and Paul always talks about the old ceremonial laws but NEVER the condemns the new law.
Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that LOVETH ANOTHER HATH FULFILLED THE LAW.
Rom 13:10 LOVE WORKETH NO ILL TO HIS NEIGHBOUR: THEREFORE LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and ENGRAVED IN STONES, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory WAS TO BE DONE AWAY:
2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; NOT IN TABLES OF STONE, BUT IN FLESHY TABLES OF THE HEART.Paul teaches that we are justified by the new law!
Rom 2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God: BUT THE DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 WHICH SHEW THE WORK OF THE LAW WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS, THEIR CONSCIENCE ALSO BEARING WITNESS, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)Notice how Paul explains that the new Law is written in our hearts, and says it’s the doers of the law that shall be justified..
Paul also confirms it is by the fruits of the new law of grace that we will be justified.
Thank you for your comments.
Please read the next postLove and Blessings in the name of Jesus.
Hi Seekingtruth,
I agree with what you say below,
Everything required is summed up in love. Love will not demand it's own but puts others first. I believe this to be the very essence of the “works” required having nothing to do with adhering to the law, other then love will not by it's very nature violate the law. This is the spirit of the law, not the letter (the letter kills).
Amen!
From what you have written above I can’t understand how you believe in Justified by Faith alone without other fruits of the spirit, such as Love.
1Co 12:1 NOW CONCERNING SPIRITUAL GIFTS, BRETHREN, I would not have you ignorant.
1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Co 12:8 FOR TO ONE IS GIVEN by the Spirit THE WORD OF WISDOM; TO ANOTHER the WORD OF KNOWLEDGE by the same Spirit;Faith is but one gift, we will be judged by our fruits and not just the one fruit of Faith.
1Co 12:9 TO ANOTHER FAITH by the same Spirit; TO ANOTHER THE GIFTS OF HEALING by the same Spirit;
1Co 12:10 TO ANOTHER THE WORKING OF MIRACLES; TO ANOTHER PROPHECY; TO ANOTHER DISCERNING OF SPIRITS; TO ANOTHER DIVERS KINDS OF TONGUES; TO ANOTHER THE INTERPRETATION OF TONGUES:Some people have greater Faith than others while another may have greater gifts of healing etc..
These are different gifts of grace some may only appear to be lesser members of the body but they are still as important in there own way.
Look what Paul continues to teach after explaining the spiritual gifts…1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
1Co 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.
1Co 12:15 IF THE FOOT SHALL SAY, BECAUSE I AM NOT THE HAND, I AM NOT OF THE BODY; IS IT THEREFORE NOT OF THE BODY?
1Co 12:16 And if the ear shall say, BECAUSE I AM NOT THE EYE, I AM NOT OF THE BODY; IS IT THEREFORE NOT OF THE BODY?
1Co 12:17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? IF THE WHOLE WERE HEARING, WHERE WERE THE SMELLING?We are justified by all the gifts/fruits we have been given.
The gifts are like talents, they are the fruits that we will be judged by.
Mat 25:14 FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, AND DELIVERED UNTO THEM HIS GOODS.
Mat 25:15 And unto ONE HE GAVE FIVE TALENTS, to ANOTHER TWO, and to ANOTHER ONE; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.Mat 25:23 His lord said unto him, WELL DONE, GOOD AND FAITHFUL SERVANT; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: ENTER THOU INTO THE JOY OF THY LORD.
We will be held accountable for every single talent/fruit that we have been given!
Mat 25:29 FOR UNTO EVERY ONE THAT HATH SHALL BE GIVEN, AND HE SHALL HAVE ABUNDANCE: BUT FROM HIM THAT HATH NOT SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY EVEN THAT WHICH HE HATH.
Mat 25:30 AND CAST YE THE UNPROFITABLE SERVANT INTO OUTER DARKNESS: THERE SHALL BE WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH.Scripture clearly teaches that we will be judged by our works. (These are the works of the new law of love, as well as other fruits)
Jesus never teaches we will justified by faith alone but instead teaches us not to marvel about good works.
Joh 5:28 MARVEL NOT AT THIS: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have DONE GOOD, unto THE RESURRECTION OF LIFE; and they that have done evil, UNTO THE RESURRECTION OF DAMNATION.We need to see Jesus in every single person no matter how much we are impelled to dislike them.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, INHERIT THE KINGDOM prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungred, AND YE GAVE ME MEAT: I WAS THIRSTY, AND YE GAVE ME DRINK: I WAS A STRANGER, AND YE TOOK ME IN:
Mat 25:36 Naked, AND YE CLOTHED ME: I was sick, AND YE VISITED ME: I was in prison, AND YE CAME UNTO ME.Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I WILL GIVE UNTO EVERY ONE OF YOU ACCORDING TO YOUR WORKS.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: AND THEY WERE JUDGED EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, TO GIVE EVERY MAN ACCORDING AS HIS WORK SHALL BE.
Indeed what does Faith profit a man without works…..
Jam 2:14 WHAT DOTH IT PROFIT, my brethren, though a man SAY HE HATH FAITH, AND HAVE NOT WORKS? CAN FAITH SAVE HIM?
Jam 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jam 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; WHAT DOTH IT PROFIT?
Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, BEING ALONE.Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father JUSTIFIED BY WORKS, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jam 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot JUSTIFIED BY WORKS, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
Paul agrees with James…Paul says even if we have ALL faith even to remove mountains and not have Charity we are nothing!
People often get confused with Paul’s teachings on the old law which where works outside of grace. Paul teaches us not to despise the other fruits of the spirit.First here are the fruits
Gal 5:22 BUT THE FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT is LOVE, joy, peace, LONGSUFFERING, gentleness, GOODNESS, FAITH,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: AGAINST SUCH THERE IS NO LAW.There are 9 or 12 fruits of the spirit depending on the Bible translation.
The twelve are Love, Joy, Peace, PATIENCE, BENIGNITY, Goodness, Longanimity, Mildness, Faith, Modesty, Continency, and Chastity.Notice how Paul mentions the fruits of the spirit and then goes on to say we will be JUDGED ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS.
Rom 2:3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that THOU SHALT ESCAPE THE JUDGMENT OF GOD?
Rom 2:4 Or DESPISEST THOU THE RICHES of his GOODNESS and PATIENCE and LONGSUFFERING? Knowest thou not that the BENIGNITY of God leadeth thee to penance?
Rom 2:5 But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest up to thyself wrath, against the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God:
Rom 2:6 WHO WILL RENDER TO EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS.It is by the works of the fruits of the new law.
Rom 2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God: BUT THE DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 WHICH SHEW THE WORK OF THE LAW WRITTEN IN THEIR HEARTS, THEIR CONSCIENCE ALSO BEARING WITNESS, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)Paul only ever condemns the old law that has vanished away!
He understands that we ALL will appear before the judgment seat of Christ and will ALL be judged by our works.2Co 5:10 FOR WE MUST ALL APPEAR BEFORE THE JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST; that every one may receive the things done in his body, ACCORDING TO THAT HE HATH DONE, WHETHER IT BE
GOOD OR BAD.Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I KNOW THY WORKS, THAT THOU HAST A NAME THAT THOU LIVEST, AND ART DEAD.
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, THAT ARE READY TO DIE: FOR I HAVE NOT FOUND THY WORKS PERFECT BEFORE GOD.Why did Jesus say these people where ready to die….It was because of there works.
Indeed it doesn’t matter how much faith we have if our WORKS are Luke warm He will spew us out of his mouth!
Rev 3:15 I KNOW THY WORKS, THAT THOU ART NEITHER COLD NOR HOT: I WOULD THOU WERT COLD OR HOT.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I WILL SPUE THEE OUT OF MY MOUTH.We can even have massive amounts of faith to move mountains to cast out devils etc etc but we will still have to stand before the judgment seat of Jesus and be judged according to our works whether good or Bad.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their FRUITS ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 NOT EVERY ONE THAT SAITH UNTO ME, LORD, LORD, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 MANY WILL SAY TO ME IN THAT DAY, LORD, LORD, HAVE WE NOT PROPHESIED IN THY NAME? and IN THY NAME have CAST OUT DEVILS? and IN THY NAME DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Also remember..
1Co 12:3 Wherefore I GIVE YOU TO UNDERSTAND, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that NO MAN can say that JESUS IS THE LORD, but by the Holy Ghost.
So it is by our fruits we are judged and the greatest fruit is Love!
1Co 13:13 And now abideth FAITH, HOPE, CHARITY, these three; BUT THE GREATEST of these IS CHARITY [LOVE].There are many scriptures that show the wonder of the greatest fruit of the spirit and there are also scriptures that show that it is by the calling of hope we are saved. Hope brings forth the fruit of Love and Faith etc.
Scripture EXPLICITLY REJECTS the idea of Justification by faith alone!
1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have ALL [G3956] FAITH, so THAT I COULD REMOVE MOUNTAINS,
AND HAVE NOT CHARITY, I AM NOTHING.G3956 πᾶς pas pas
INCLUDING ALL THE FORMS OF DECLENSION; apparently a primary word; ALL, ANY, EVERY, THE WHOLE: – all (manner of, means) alway (-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no (-thing), X THROUGHLY, WHATSOEVER, WHOLE, WHOSOEVER.Even while explicitly rejecting the idea of Faith alone it even teaches we are Justified by works.
Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that BY WORKS A MAN IS JUSTIFIED, and NOT BY FAITH ONLY.
“Faith alone” is “faith only” they are written with the same Greek word,
G3440 μόνον monon mon'-on
NEUTER OF G3441 AS ADVERB; merely: – ALONE, but, ONLY.
G3441 μόνος monos mon'-os
Probably from G3306; remaining, that is, SOLE OR SINGLE; by implication mere: – ALONE, ONLY, BY THEMSELVES.Knowing that we will be judged accordingly to the works of Gods grace gives us open ears and with fear and trembling I listen to the call of the spirit to do the work that God has ordained that I SHOULD follow.
Phi 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, WORK OUT YOUR OWN SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING.
Phi 2:13 FOR IT IS GOD WHICH WORKETH IN YOU BOTH TO WILL AND TO DO OF HIS GOOD PLEASURE.We need to also be careful of every idle word…..
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, THAT EVERY IDLE WORD THAT MEN SHALL SPEAK, THEY SHALL RENDER AN ACCOUNT FOR IT IN THE DAY OF JUDGMENT.
Mat 12:37 For BY THY WORDS THOU SHALT BE JUSTIFIED, AND BY THY WORDS THOU SHALT BE CONDEMNED.The teaching of Justification by Faith alone is dreadful. It turns our Faith into the Grace that only Jesus can give us.
It doesn’t matter how much faith we have we can’t storm our way into heaven without being judged by our fruits and then receiving the free gift that only grace alone can pay.
I wonder why Luther wanted to remove the book of James and Revelations…?
And then we have the Canon of the Old Testament and Luther’s wonderful discussion here also…. http://www.fisheaters.com/septuagint.htmlLove and Blessing in name of Jesus.
Nick and SS
Faith and works go hand in hand. If your faith lacks works, it is dead, if your works lack faith, they are dead. Both will be manifested in true salvation, but it is not by the works we are justified, but by the faith (least any man should boast).Sorry this is the best I can put what I'm trying to say.
Hi SS.
You say
“From what you have written above I can’t understand how you believe in Justified by Faith alone without other fruits of the spirit, such as Love.”“We are justified by all the gifts/fruits we have been given.”
Indeed those in Christ will be rewarded according to the profit on the investment of God's Spirit given to us-fruit.
Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I WILL GIVE UNTO EVERY ONE OF YOU ACCORDING TO YOUR WORKS.
Rewards only belong to the saved in Christ.
They are given at the tribunal of Christ[2Cor 5.10 and Matt 25.14f]
“Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, TO GIVE EVERY MAN ACCORDING AS HIS WORK SHALL BE.”
This is after the first resurrection.Are we justified by our fruits?
Are not the fruits the natural expression of the branch
that is in the vineunder the care of the Gardener??Are all naturally men in that vine
Or only those reborn into that vine?
You must be discerning about judgement.No, few are in the vine as the path is narrow, and we who are have already passed over from death to life to do not come under judgement at the White throne judgement which you describe from scripture here. This is after the second resurrection, 1000 yrs later.
“Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: AND THEY WERE JUDGED EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS.”
And this judgement is according to works too, but very specific works
Matt 25
“40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. “
and
” 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.”So the advice of God is
” seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and everything else will be added to you”” anyone who wants to save his own life
will lose it”There is no point in trying to prove we are of God by our works,
if we are yet to be reborn so that that seed can grow in us
and produce shoots, leaves and that fruit in season.“Without me you can do nothing”
Safety is in the Son of God so do not deny him
but be reborn into him.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 08 2006,20:49) Hi ST,
It is not just what we say
but if we are not clear about things,
some could misread our views and be scandalised.
Nick,
I always do the best I can to be clear, I usually spend at least a hour on even a short post and have spent hours on others (and I don't have any that are too long).I'm sure you're not saying that I shouldn't post unless I can get smarter (little hope there)
Hi ST,
Every post is an oppportunity to further clarify truth for ourselves and for all who come here so there is never a problem if we have to enlarge what someone has posted.Faith alone, Perhaps a better way to put it would be – Once I've turned from my ways and put my trust in what God accomplished through His Son, how many good works do I have to complete to be saved (is there a waiting period, a minimum number?), I believe the answer to be none. It was by the faith I was saved, not by my works.
Since I was saved, I've fallen short and failed in my “works” many times, but God is merciful and kind to those who maintain a heart towards Him. So once again it is not the measurement of my works by which I'm saved.
God has given us a precious gift and while nothing on heaven or earth can seperate us from this gift I believe we can choose to walk away and go back to the ways of the world (God will not force us to stay). A lack of “works” shows where your heart is turned, are you still seeking Him or have you chose to “save your life” and re-establish the pursuit of your own desires (despising the cross and what it demands).
It is still faith by which I believe that those who treat this “gift” from God as common, have long since failed to have a heart for God and have lost faith (otherwise they would trust (have faith) that God will do what He has said, to those who live in dis-obediance).
I hope this makes my point clearer, obviously I agree with scriptures showing “works” are required but they are not the source of our salvation and this needs to be balnced with the scriptures that state it is by faith we are saved.
Love you my brothers
Quote (malcolm ferris @ Sep. 08 2006,23:12) For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God, not of works lest any should boast. So it is by GRACE that we are saved THROUGH the avenue of faith which is itself a work of God's grace to us, being a gift from Him. Works don't seem to come into the equation – the work of salvation is a finished work of grace from what I understand of the Bible.
Grace is what God has done (a finished work) for us.
Works is what we do in appreciation of this (no works shows a lack of gratitude)
Faith is the facility whereby God extends this grace to us.IMHO
I should also have added that it was grace that made faith possible, but the grace was there whether I choose to accept the gift or not (Jesus died for all men). That is why I say it is by faith alone (since it is what qualifies me for salvation).
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