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Quote (t8 @ June 24 2011,08:45) Quote (Stu @ June 23 2011,22:06) The same could equally be said for you and what I wrote about spirituality. What value is spirituality based on things that just aren't true, like virgin birth, walking on the surface of water, walking again after being killed, and snakes chatting with humans?
Stuart
I have been on both sides of the fence.Half my life I was an ignorant atheist.
Never again. I have no excuse not to believe because have seen and experienced God first hand.
I will let you get back to disproving the colour green (symbollically speaking).
Had you tried being an informed atheist at any stage?Stuart
Quote (t8 @ June 24 2011,09:08) “As we shall see, the concept of time has no meaning before the beginning of the universe. This was first pointed out by St. Augustine. When asked: What did God do before he created the universe? Augustine didn't reply: He was preparing Hell for people who asked such questions. Instead, he said that time was a property of the universe that God created, and that time did not exist before the beginning of the universe.”
Stephen Hawking, A Brief History of Time (New York: Bantam, 1988), p. 8“One can imagine that God created the universe at literally any time in the past. On the other hand, if the universe is expanding, there may be physical reasons why there had to be a beginning. One could imagine that God created the universe at the instant of the big bang, or even afterwards in just such a way as to make it look as though there had been a big bang, but it would be meaningless to suppose that it was created before the big bang. An expanding universe does not preclude a creator, but it does place limits on when he might have carried out his job!”
A Brief History of Time (New York: Bantam, 1988), pp. 8-9.“With the success of scientific theories in describing events, most people have come to believe that God allows the universe to evolve according to a set of laws and does not intervene in the universe to break these laws. However, the laws do not tell us what the universe should have looked like when it started — it would still be up to God to wind up the clockwork and choose how to start it off. So long as the universe had a beginning, we could suppose it had a creator. But if the universe is really completely self-contained, having no boundary or edge, it would have neither beginning nor end: it would simply be. What place, then, for a creator?”
A Brief History of Time (New York: Bantam, 1988), p. 140-41.“However, if we discover a complete theory, it should in time be understandable by everyone, not just by a few scientists. Then we shall all, philosophers, scientists and just ordinary people, be able to take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason — for then we should know the mind of God.”
A Brief History of Time – (page 193)In response to his book, Prophet Hawking said this:
“If you believe in science, like I do, you believe that there are certain laws that are always obeyed. If you like, you can say the laws are the work of God, but that is more a definition of God than a proof of his existence.”
I find it remarkable that there are christians out there in cyberpsace, from whom you have copied, so impoverished and naive in their worldview that they would spend all that time extracting mentions of “god” from Hawking's work when he was using that metaphor in the manner of Einstein and Spinoza, people with whom they would never agree.Are you a Spinozan now t8?
Stuart
Quote (Ed J @ June 24 2011,17:51) Hi Stuart, Informed of what?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Well exactly!Stuart
Quote (Stu @ June 24 2011,20:21) Quote (Ed J @ June 24 2011,17:51) Quote (Stu @ June 24 2011,17:48) Had you tried being an informed atheist at any stage? Stuart
Hi Stuart,Informed of what?
Well exactly!Stuart
Hi Stuart,Then you would agree with me that 'atheists' are not informed of anything; RIGHT?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgedj,
commenting on another knowledge as having none is quite an insult. christians are to love one another, atheits state they have more respect for humans then christians do. appartently someone is lying. matters none to me, just gathering data and trying to sort it out.
here is one for you edj, just in case you need it
the person that thinks they know it all, are very annoying to the ones that do.
much love 2u edj
Hi Princess,
Perhaps you misunderstood the essence of my post.
Atheists cannot be informed God doesn't (which is false) exist.
It's a fact that he does exist, all that's needed is for them to be informed.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgedj,
i will disagree, it is well documented and understood that they do know 'god' exists, nor books would not be written to discredit the matter.
tis their belief in the matter is the issue at hand. one can understand and comprehend, does not mean they believe.
i tend to take Prince Stuart, as i will believe it when i see it type, which is fine, nothing wrong with that. however, in the millisecond of time, he will be fine.
do take care edj.
Hi Princess,
We all know their beliefs can change!
You take care too.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgA creator of what, by what mechanism, and know through what unambiguous evidence?
Otherwise you just spouted a platitude.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ June 25 2011,07:27) What is a god? Stuart
the same as a divine human? a figment of ones imagination? a conspiracy theory that wants world domination? a tea pot? i give up what is a god?Quote (Stu @ June 24 2011,17:48) Had you tried being an informed atheist at any stage? Stuart
An informed Atheist is an oxymoron. Its like saying a wise fool. With regard to the meaning of life or the cause of all at least.Quote (princess @ June 25 2011,11:41) Quote (Stu @ June 25 2011,07:27) What is a god? Stuart
the same as a divine human? a figment of ones imagination? a conspiracy theory that wants world domination? a tea pot? i give up what is a god?
Well said!Stuart
Quote (t8 @ June 25 2011,12:39) Quote (Stu @ June 24 2011,17:48) Had you tried being an informed atheist at any stage? Stuart
An informed Atheist is an oxymoron. Its like saying a wise fool. With regard to the meaning of life or the cause of all at least.
I know what the meaning of my life is, so I am not ignorant about that. What does your religion say is the meaning of your life? I don't think it does, does it? I am ignorant about the “cause” of the universe, but as far as anyone knows the word cause has no useful meaning in regards to that. You have never even explained the appearance of energy and matter in the universe and I have. As for the cause, all you do is use a three letter platitude that is no more than a naming exercise of things that do not appear to be real.So all I can conclude is that you are hypocritical about these things.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ June 25 2011,15:19) I am ignorant about the “cause” of the universe,
I have never had an answer here as far as I can remember.But if you are ignorant on a certain subject, then ridiculing what people say about a subject that you are ignorant of shows even further ignorance does it not?
Quote (Stu @ June 25 2011,15:19) You have never even explained the appearance of energy and matter in the universe and I have.
Was it the Gravity God?Or something else.
Please explain the appearance of energy and matter in the universe in your next post.
Try to keep it short if you can.
Then I will do the same.
Quote (t8 @ June 27 2011,12:50) Quote (Stu @ June 25 2011,15:19) You have never even explained the appearance of energy and matter in the universe and I have.
Was it the Gravity God?Or something else.
Please explain the appearance of energy and matter in the universe in your next post.
Try to keep it short if you can.
Then I will do the same.
Already have.But OK, here goes again: Energy arises through the expansion of space-time, gravitational energy to be precise. That gravitational energy is equivalent to matter, into which it got converted according to Einstein's equation. If we were to go into a big crunch in which the Big Bang was reversed, all that energy would be paid back. The universe is expanding today and is still producing energy / matter but not at the same rate it did within the first short period after the beginning of the universe when the expansion rate relative to its initial size was huge.
People have some concept that all the energy and matter in the universe was somehow compressed into a tiny point which exploded, but actually the energy and matter did not exist at that stage, it only came about because of the action of gravity within the expanding space-time.
Now, your turn. Please explain the appearance of energy and matter. And I do mean explain.
Stuart
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