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Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 31 2009,14:47) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 31 2009,09:19) BD I agree with you on this one.
Just like the division between the Muslim and the Christian or the saved or unsaved!
WJ
Hi WJ,It seems you and BD, have a lot in common; Huh?
Ed J
No, we have nothing in Common except what is most important Our love for the truth, Our Love for Jesus and Our Love for God as we know Him.We are enemies in love with the truth.
but this type of enemy can be your greatest friend when the conflict is resolved.
Argument is for the sake of Discovery, anything other than that is from the evil one
Quote (942767 @ Dec. 31 2009,14:35) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 31 2009,14:07) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 31 2009,13:04) Hi BD: You say:
Quote The problem with your defense is that Paul is speaking in the present not past tense he says: 19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
He is not saying “did” he is saying “do”
He was reflecting on the life that he lived under the Law of Moses, as I have already showed you by the scriptures. As an Apostle of the Lord, he was no longer under the law but part of the body of Christ.
And you say:
Quote Why wouldn't you just state what you know to be true, that Paul did say the things he said and either you simply don't care what he said or you excuse what he says because your just not confident enough to disagree with him. I am stating the truth and showing you out of my love for you that you are misunderstanding Paul and judging an Apostle of the Most High God through this misunderstanding. When I show you, you want to put your head in the sand and continue in your sin. There is no way to be saved except through the provision that God has made through the sacrifice of His Only Begotten Son and His Christ. Putting it simply, the Apostle Paul was showing that through the Law of Moses all of humanity can see that they have violated the Law of God, and therefore, they are in need of a saviour.
And then you try to show that Jesus and the Apostle Paul disagree in the following:
Quote NOT BRINGING PEACE Paul
Eph. 2:14 [Paul says:] For in Christ Jesus is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by abolishing in his flesh the Law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near.
Jesus
Matt. 10:34 [Jesus says:] “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Luke 12:51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.
——————————————-
I CAME TO BRING DIVISIONS
Paul
1Cor. 1:10 [Paul says:] I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.
Rom. 16:17 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people.
Jesus
Luke 12:51 [Jesus says:] Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three.
The division to which Jesus is referring is that which is caused when a person is born again and those in his family or some members of his family are not. As a child of God the born again person is subjected to him through his Word (which the scriptures state is the sword of the Lord), and those who are not born again are practicing sin. If you will just look at what they did to Jesus, maybe you will understand.
And maybe these scriptures to his disciples my help you to understand.
Quote Mat 5:10 Blessed [are] those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11 “Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake.
Mat 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor [fn] and hate your enemy.'
Mat 5:44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
Jhn 15:20 Remember the word that I said to you, 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours alsoThe Apostle Paul was speaking of unity in the body of Christ by the scriptures that you are quoting in which he states that Christ is our peace.
This is what Jesus was praying to God:
Quote Jhn 17:18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. Jhn 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
Jhn 17:20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will [fn] believe in Me through their word;
Jhn 17:21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, [are] in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
You then bring the following:
Quote Jhn 17:18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. Jhn 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
Jhn 17:20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will [fn] believe in Me through their word;
Jhn 17:21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, [are] in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
1 Co 14 is dealing with proper order when we as a body of Christ come to worship our God and to study His Word. And so, when we come together as the body of Christ, he says that we should do all things decently and in order.
Do you suppose that God would agree with this or not?
And then the following comparison:
Quote JES
US: BE AS CHILDREN TO ENTER HEAVEN; PAUL: NEVER BE AS CHILDRENPaul
1Cor. 13:11 [Paul says:] When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.
Jesus
Matt. 18:3 And [Jesus] said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Paul is speaking about becoming a mature Christian, and Jesus is speaking of humility.
Paul also agrees with this. He says:
Quote Phl 2:5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, Phl 2:6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
Phl 2:7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, [and] coming in the likeness of men.
Phl 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to [the point of] death, even the death of the cross.
Phl 2:9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
Phl 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
Phl 2:11 and [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
And then you bring the following in which I have no idea what you are saying is wrong with what the Apostle Paul is teaching about prayer:
Quote DO NOT MULTIPLY YOUR WORDS IN PRAYING Eph. 6:18 [Paul says:] And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.
1Ths. 3:10 Night and day we pray most earnestly that we may see you again and supply what is lacking in your faith. 5:17 pray continually;
Matt. 6:7 [Jesus says:] And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Mark 12:40 They devour widows' houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. Such men will be punished most severely.”
Eccl. 5:2 Do not be quick with your mouth, do not be hasty in your heart to utter anything before God. God is in heaven and you are on earth, so let your words be few.
How many times a day do Muslims pray?
This one is really funny. It says:
Quote And to top it off isn't the false prophet the one that was prophesied to be stuck in the head but not die? Would Jesus really strike someone BLIND but Paul was struck blind injury to the head
WAKE UP!!! The deception has already occured.
I do believe, however, that you have been deceived.???
And then the following:
Quote JESUS EATS WITH SINNERS; BUT PAUL SAYS YOU MUST NOT Paul
1Cor. 5:11 [Paul says:] But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
Jesus
Luke 5:30 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the Law who belonged to their sect complained to his disciples, “Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and `sinners'?” 31 Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Paul is speaking of not associating with someone who has professed to be a Christian and is not living the life and the purpose of this is that he might be ashamed. If he has been born again, then he knows the truth, and his punishment will be more severe if he does not repent than someone who is a sinner who has never been born again.
Jesus is speaking of eating with sinners that are not a part of his body. He did not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.
This is what the Apostle Paul said taken in context:
Quote 1Cr 5:9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 1Cr 5:10 Yet certainly [did] not [mean] with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.
1Cr 5:11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner–not even to eat with such a person.
1Cr 5:12 For what [have] I [to do] with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?
1Cr 5:13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”
Then you bring up the following:
Quote PAUL: WIDOWS ONLY TO GET AID IF OLDER THAN 60 AND TOTALLY PERFECT Wrong way
1Tim. 5:3 [Paul says:] Give proper recognition to those widows who are really in need. 6 But the widow who lives for pleasure is dead even while she lives. 9 No widow may be put on the list of widows unless she is over sixty, has been faithful to her husband, 10 and is well known for her good deeds, such as bringing up children, showing hospitality, washing the feet of the saints, helping those in trouble and devoting herself to all kinds of good deeds. 11 As for younger widows, do not put them on such a list. For when their sensual desires overcome their dedication to Christ, they want to marry. 12 Thus they bring judgment on themselves, because they have broken their first pledge. 15 Some have in fact already turned away to follow Satan.
2Ths. 3:10 [Paul says:] For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “”If a man will not work, he shall not eat.''
Right way
Lev. 19:10 Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God.
Lev. 23:22 “`When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God.'”
Mark 9:41 [Jesus says:] I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you even a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.
Luke 7:47 [Jesus says:] Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven –for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little.” 48 Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.” Luke 8:1 After this, Jesus traveled [and th
e] Twelve were with him, 2 and also some women: Mary (called Magdalene); … 3 Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.Relative to widows the Apostle Paul makes these stipulations because he expects that the younger widows will get married and have a husband to support them whereas a widow of 60 or older will probably not remarry.
And he says if someone can work and does not want to work, he should not eat. Do you disagree?
There are poor people who are working but who are nevertheless need help or they may not be working because they lost their job or because of a disability or for some other good reason. Paul's statement does not refer to these, but to someone who can work but doesn't want to work.
And then the following:
Quote EVERYONE WHO SPEAKS AGAINST THE SON OF MAN WILL BE FORGIVEN Paul disagrees
Hebr. 10:29 [Paul says] How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Jesus insists
Luke 12:10 [Jesus says] And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, …
Matt. 12:32 [Jesus says] Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, …
Anyone who has spoken against Jesus will be forgiven when they come to God with a repentant heart through his provision, but this is the scripture that you quoted about not being forgiven in context:
Quote Hbr 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, Hbr 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
Hbr 10:28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Hbr 10:29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Hbr 10:30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” [fn] says the Lord. [fn] And again, “The LORD will judge His people.” [fn]
Hbr 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Do you understand? If you reject God's plan for salvation, there remains no more sacrifice for sin, but judgement day is coming.:(
And then you say:
Quote GOD MADE THE UNIVERSE, THEN MAN; PAUL: JESUS MADE EVERYTHING Paul said the following:
Quote Eph 3:9 and to make all see what [is] the fellowship [fn] of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; [fn] He, God created all things with his heirs in mind. All of God's children who will be saved in the body of Christ. This world is temporary, and God is calling whosoever will to come and enjoy his blessings but it is a choice. God will not force anyone to serve Him.
And then you bring up the following:
Quote GOD CALLS HIS ANGELS THE SONS OF GOD; PAUL SLANDERS ANGELS Paul
Hebr. 1:5 [Paul says,] For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” ? Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son” ?
Hebr. 1:14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?
1 Corinthians 6:3 Do you not know that we shall judge the angels?
Jesus
Matthew 13:49 So shall it be in the full end of the age, the messengers [angels] shall come forth and separate the evil out of the midst of the righteous, 50 And shall cast them to the furnace of the fire, …
Rev. 13:1 And the dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea… 3 One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast. 5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words … to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven.
Angels are called the sons of God. They are created sons just as Adam was a son of God, but the distinction is that none of these were the “ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD”
And so, to say that Paul slanders angels is a lie.
All must appear before the judgment seat of Christ, angels included.
Quote 2Cr 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things [done] in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2Cr 5:11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.
Quote Jud 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; And then the following:
Quote GOD DOES NOT OFFER HIS FIRSTBORN AS A SACRIFICE; PAUL SAYS HE DOES Paul
Rom. 3:24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.
Hebr. 10:10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
God
Micah 6:7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I offer my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? 8 He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.
God has provided the sacrifice. The only sacrifice that He requires of us that we trust Him by believing and obeying His Word.
This is God:
Quote Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. Jhn 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jhn 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Quote Isa 53:1 Who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? Isa 53:2 For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, And as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or comeliness; And when we see Him, [There is] no beauty that we should desire Him.
Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected by men, A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, [our] faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.
Isa 53:4 Surely He has borne our griefs And carried our sorrows; Yet we esteemed Him stricken, Smitten by God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But He [was] wounded for our transgressions, [He was] bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace [was] upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He opened not His mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, And as a sheep before its shearers is silent, So He opened not His mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment, And who will declare His generation? For He was cut off from the land of the living; For the transgressions of My people He was stricken.
Isa 53:9 And they [fn] made His grave with the wicked– But with the rich at His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor [was any] deceit in His mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put [Him] to grief. When You make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see [His] seed, He shall prolong [His] days, And the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see the labor of His soul, [fn] [and] be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, For He shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great, And He shall divide the spoil with the strong, Because He poured out His soul unto death, And He was numbered with the transgressors, And He bore the sin of many, And made intercession for the transgressors.
And you say:
Quote and finally BEFORE YHWH ONLY EVERY KNEE WILL BOW; PAUL DISAGREES
Isa. 45:21 ['”For this is what the LORD says:] Was it not I, the LORD ? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me. 22 “Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. 23 By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.
Matt. 12:32 [Jesus says:] Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven,
Paul disagrees
Romans 14:9 [Paul says:] For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11 It is written: ” 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.' “
Philippians 2:9 [Paul says:] Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
Quote Hbr 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, Hbr 1:2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
This is what Jesus stated and he agrees with the Apostle Paul:
Quote Jhn 5:22 For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, Jhn 5:23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
Jhn 5:24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
Jhn 5:25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.
Jhn 5:26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
Jhn 5:27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.
Jhn 5:28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
Jhn 5:29 and come forth–those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
Jhn 5:30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.
And finally,
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,Has paul ever lied or use deceit and craftiness to sprad the gospel? Yes or No?
Hi BD:He probably did before he became a Christian, and it is possible for anyone to make a mistake after we are Christians, but no, I don't believe that he lied during his ministry. But neither you nor I are the judge.
If you have a scripture that you want to discuss, I will be happy to address it.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,You know I love you but right now you are to luke warm for me. You can't admit certain things and don't believe strongly in scripture
What does this mean?
Cursed is he who does the work of the LORD deceitfully, And cursed is he who keeps back his sword from blood.
Jeremiah 48:9-11Does God condone violence? Yes or NO?
And I will take the remnant of Judah who have set their faces to go into the land of Egypt to dwell there, and they shall all be consumed and fall in the land of Egypt. They shall be consumed by the sword and by famine. They shall die, from
the least to the greatest, by the sword and by famine; and they shall be an oath, an astonishment, a curse and a reproach!
Jeremiah 44:11-13“ For My sword shall be bathed in heaven; Indeed it shall come down on Edom, And on the people of My curse, for judgment.
Isaiah 34:4-6YES or NO?
Quote (CLIO-PATRA @ Dec. 31 2009,03:37) Hi Karmaire May I send you a comprehensive paper that I put together some weeks ago, using many other people's understandings as well as my own – as it paints a broader picture then if one person says it all…..
Hi CP, sure
thanks.BD
Got kills for 2 reasons only
1. To protect his nation
2. To gave his promised land to peopleIsrael is no longer the promised land because it's owned by the wild beast(United nations) and God disowned most of the Jews. The earth will be for those who don't go to heaven.
Gen. 1:27, 28: “God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. Further, God blessed them and God said to them: ‘Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.
’Isa. 45:18: “This is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the true God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited: ‘I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.’”
It's impossible for the earth to be inhabited if everyone goes to heaven and heaven is a place not made by hands(not made from the physical universe) so Earth can't be in heaven.
BC&JW
Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ April 13 2011,15:57) BD God kills for 2 reasons only
1. To protect his nation
2. To gave his promised land to people
Doesn't sound like something that should be worshipped.It should be imprisoned like any murderous despot.
Stuart
Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ April 13 2011,15:57) BD Got kills for 2 reasons only
1. To protect his nation
2. To gave his promised land to peopleIsrael is no longer the promised land because it's owned by the wild beast(United nations) and God disowned most of the Jews. The earth will be for those who don't go to heaven.
Gen. 1:27, 28: “God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. Further, God blessed them and God said to them: ‘Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.
’Isa. 45:18: “This is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the true God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited: ‘I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.’”
It's impossible for the earth to be inhabited if everyone goes to heaven and heaven is a place not made by hands(not made from the physical universe) so Earth can't be in heaven.
BC&JW
Greetings BCJW….There are but a few residents of Heaven and none of them are of the Flesh….There are the angels and Jesus who sits at the right hand of the father…no body is on a cloud playing a harp,they are all just dead with respect to multiple millions who have died to date….The new Jerusalem will be here on this earth and there will be a great white thrown judgement in which all will have a chance to see God and choose…When we go to Genisis…The earth was void and without light at the same time God has seen fit to also speak of the rest of the creation that consists of the millions of stars and planets that some day we humans will be able to inhabit……Quote (theodorej @ April 17 2011,00:11) Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ April 13 2011,15:57) BD Got kills for 2 reasons only
1. To protect his nation
2. To gave his promised land to peopleIsrael is no longer the promised land because it's owned by the wild beast(United nations) and God disowned most of the Jews. The earth will be for those who don't go to heaven.
Gen. 1:27, 28: “God proceeded to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. Further, God blessed them and God said to them: ‘Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.
’Isa. 45:18: “This is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the true God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited: ‘I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.’”
It's impossible for the earth to be inhabited if everyone goes to heaven and heaven is a place not made by hands(not made from the physical universe) so Earth can't be in heaven.
BC&JW
Greetings BCJW….There are but a few residents of Heaven and none of them are of the Flesh….There are the angels and Jesus who sits at the right hand of the father…no body is on a cloud playing a harp,they are all just dead with respect to multiple millions who have died to date….The new Jerusalem will be here on this earth and there will be a great white thrown judgement in which all will have a chance to see God and choose…When we go to Genisis…The earth was void and without light at the same time God has seen fit to also speak of the rest of the creation that consists of the millions of stars and planets that some day we humans will be able to inhabit……
If your referring to the verse below and taking it literally.. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them.(Revelation 21:3)
You must also take the verse below literally.
11 And I shall certainly put my tabernacle in the midst of YOU, and my soul will not abhor YOU. 12 And I shall indeed walk in the midst of YOU and prove myself YOUR God, and YOU, on YOUR part, will prove yourselves my people. (Leviticus 26:11-12)
Quote (theodorej @ April 17 2011,00:11) …When we go to Genisis…The earth was void and without light at the same time God has seen fit to also speak of the rest of the creation that consists of the millions of stars and planets that some day we humans will be able to inhabit……
We will be able to inhabit stars? I can't find that in Genesis.Stuart
Look at all the quotes within quotes within quotes down here…my gosh.
I was wondering about the stars part too Theodore. What is that from?
Quote (karmarie @ April 19 2011,09:28) Look at all the quotes within quotes within quotes down here…my gosh.
Given the ear-chewing I got on the subject of nested quotes from t8, t8 would have kittens.Although being a creationist I guess he doesn't believe humans can give birth to kittens.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ April 19 2011,03:14) Quote (theodorej @ April 17 2011,00:11) …When we go to Genisis…The earth was void and without light at the same time God has seen fit to also speak of the rest of the creation that consists of the millions of stars and planets that some day we humans will be able to inhabit……
We will be able to inhabit stars? I can't find that in Genesis.Stuart
Quote (Stu @ April 19 2011,09:14) Quote (theodorej @ April 17 2011,00:11) …When we go to Genisis…The earth was void and without light at the same time God has seen fit to also speak of the rest of the creation that consists of the millions of stars and planets that some day we humans will be able to inhabit……
We will be able to inhabit stars? I can't find that in Genesis.Stuart
Greetings Stu….Man has the ability to travel in space…God gave us a little taste of our potential in the late sixties..We went to the moon and we will have the ability to inhabit other planets as gods plan evolves and we come to our senses and realize that the science and technology that made the Moon landing possible was an extension of Gods creation and a blessing to mankind….If you review the tapes and manuscripts of many of the astronauts you will see that they were mindfull of the creator God and in some cases they actually quoted scripture….Apollo 13 is a case in point that speaks to the occurence of a miracle….Quote (karmarie @ April 20 2011,16:15) Interesting. (Isnt it Stu). Where is Bod and EdJ these days?
Filming an episode of Celebrity Death Match?Stuart
Quote (theodorej @ April 20 2011,10:19) Quote (Stu @ April 19 2011,09:14) Quote (theodorej @ April 17 2011,00:11) …When we go to Genisis…The earth was void and without light at the same time God has seen fit to also speak of the rest of the creation that consists of the millions of stars and planets that some day we humans will be able to inhabit……
We will be able to inhabit stars? I can't find that in Genesis.Stuart
Greetings Stu….Man has the ability to travel in space…God gave us a little taste of our potential in the late sixties..We went to the moon and we will have the ability to inhabit other planets as gods plan evolves and we come to our senses and realize that the science and technology that made the Moon landing possible was an extension of Gods creation and a blessing to mankind….If you review the tapes and manuscripts of many of the astronauts you will see that they were mindfull of the creator God and in some cases they actually quoted scripture….Apollo 13 is a case in point that speaks to the occurence of a miracle….
I thought it was JFK's plan to go to the moon.I suppose you can make anything the plan of an Imaginary Friend.
You could equally argue that it was god's plan that the Apollo 13 astronauts die but by the Cunning of Man they managed to thwart that evil Being's meddling in affairs that were not his to meddle in.
See, with god anything is possible, any old story can be invented and passed off as plausible!
Stuart
Stuart, you know alot more than me when it comes to Science and things. I left School when I was 16. So I dont know that much. However I do know that there is a huge Universe up there. I saw a documentary where they went to the Moon (Apollo 13 I think) and they spoke about what it was like there, and how they felt when they got back.
They said the most amazing thing, wasnt landing on the Moon, but it was looking at the Earth. they said it was the most beautiful thing they had ever seen. They could hide the Earth behind their Thumb, and they realised how small their problems actually were.
Something had to create that Stu.
And there must be some reason for all those Planets.
I think thats true what Theodore said…and we have only seen a part of it up there. Theres so much that we dont know.
Quote (karmarie @ April 20 2011,21:56) Stuart, you know alot more than me when it comes to Science and things. I left School when I was 16. So I dont know that much. However I do know that there is a huge Universe up there. I saw a documentary where they went to the Moon (Apollo 13 I think) and they spoke about what it was like there, and how they felt when they got back. They said the most amazing thing, wasnt landing on the Moon, but it was looking at the Earth. they said it was the most beautiful thing they had ever seen. They could hide the Earth behind their Thumb, and they realised how small their problems actually were.
Something had to create that Stu.
And there must be some reason for all those Planets.
I think thats true what Theodore said…and we have only seen a part of it up there. Theres so much that we dont know.
What do you mean by ” something had to create that”?We know how the planets came about by the accretion of dust and gas from a nearby supernova. Collisions between pieces of debris in orbit round the sun isn't really what humans should call “creating” except in the broadest sense.
Understanding that there is a great deal we don't know only tells us one thing: there's lots we don't know. That does not mean we should believe in Baal or Odin.
Just because astronauts have a sense of awe is no reason to believe in Imaginary Friends. I have a sense of awe at the sight of the Earth and the scale of the universe (and the impossibility of really comprehending that) and none of that means to me that there is any kind of celestial conspiracy going on. Actually that looks to me to be the last thing that it could be.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ April 20 2011,18:44) Quote (theodorej @ April 20 2011,10:19) Quote (Stu @ April 19 2011,09:14) Quote (theodorej @ April 17 2011,00:11) …When we go to Genisis…The earth was void and without light at the same time God has seen fit to also speak of the rest of the creation that consists of the millions of stars and planets that some day we humans will be able to inhabit……
We will be able to inhabit stars? I can't find that in Genesis.Stuart
Greetings Stu….Man has the ability to travel in space…God gave us a little taste of our potential in the late sixties..We went to the moon and we will have the ability to inhabit other planets as gods plan evolves and we come to our senses and realize that the science and technology that made the Moon landing possible was an extension of Gods creation and a blessing to mankind….If you review the tapes and manuscripts of many of the astronauts you will see that they were mindfull of the creator God and in some cases they actually quoted scripture….Apollo 13 is a case in point that speaks to the occurence of a miracle….
I thought it was JFK's plan to go to the moon.I suppose you can make anything the plan of an Imaginary Friend.
You could equally argue that it was god's plan that the Apollo 13 astronauts die but by the Cunning of Man they managed to thwart that evil Being's meddling in affairs that were not his to meddle in.
See, with god anything is possible, any old story can be invented and passed off as plausible!
Stuart
Greetings Stu…. JFK had a plan….It was the blessings of the creator God that made the science and technology available to the men of NASA…not to mention the blessed scientific minds of several gratefull german scientists who were spared the russian gulog…When it comes to Apollo 13…this flight was one dedicated to the day, The Age Of Aquarius,the exaltation and the hubris that came with the success of Apollo 11 where men and science were actually convinced themselves that these feats were a result of the greatness of themselves and a few of the astronauts on board were of the same mind….There was an entire nation watching and praying for these men during those trying times and God saw fit to intervene….Failure was not option because of the relentless prayer and the mercy shown…Quote (SimplyForgiven @ April 19 2011,18:22) Quote (Stu @ April 19 2011,03:14) Quote (theodorej @ April 17 2011,00:11) …When we go to Genisis…The earth was void and without light at the same time God has seen fit to also speak of the rest of the creation that consists of the millions of stars and planets that some day we humans will be able to inhabit……
We will be able to inhabit stars? I can't find that in Genesis.Stuart
Greetings Simply Forgiven…..Is that all you have to add to this discussion….If so ….let me take this opportunity to thank you for your meaningfull input…you have added so much!!
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