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Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 30 2009,21:52) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 30 2009,21:09) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 30 2009,20:39) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 30 2009,20:05) I CAME TO BRING DIVISIONS
Hi BD,That's why you are No longer alowed to post in “The believers Place”; you did it to yourself.
Do you regret your choice?Ed J
ED,I was quoting Jesus
Hi BD,If you were, you were quoting an incorrectly translated version.
That's not what the AKJV Bible says.
I also prove the AKJV Bible to be anointed of God; along with proving His existence.Division is a product of 'satan', and the AKJV Bible uses satan's 'title' in that verse (2Thess.2:3, 2:4)
“I” is God's title, existing in everybody! (Rev.21:7)
But you will not realize this difference, until you overcome the world!
That will “most certainly” be your next dispute! (AKJV Mark 13:6)Ed (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:14)
AKJVLuke
51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Matthew
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
There you have it, don't be like STU admit what is written Jesus came to bring division by his own admission but you find that to be bad when in fact it is good.
you guys love to run away from the scriptures when you don't like what they say so you reject statements like:
Cursed is he who does the work of the LORD deceitfully, And cursed is he who keeps back his sword from blood.
Jeremiah 48:9-11Quote (Stu @ Dec. 31 2009,00:32) Tee Hee. “I was quoting Jesus” is as credible as claiming you are quoting Homer. Stuart
Have you ever met Darwin? You seem so confident in quoting him. How can you be sure Darwin actually wrote anything?Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 30 2009,21:52) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 30 2009,21:09) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 30 2009,20:39) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 30 2009,20:05) I CAME TO BRING DIVISIONS
Hi BD,That's why you are No longer alowed to post in “The believers Place”; you did it to yourself.
Do you regret your choice?Ed J
ED,I was quoting Jesus
Hi BD,If you were, you were quoting an incorrectly translated version.
That's not what the AKJV Bible says.
I also prove the AKJV Bible to be anointed of God; along with proving His existence.Division is a product of 'satan', and the AKJV Bible uses satan's 'title' in that verse (2Thess.2:3, 2:4)
“I” is God's title, existing in everybody! (Rev.21:7)
But you will not realize this difference, until you overcome the world!
That will “most certainly” be your next dispute! (AKJV Mark 13:6)Ed (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:14)
Are you now saying that Jesus causing division is a product of Satan?Isn't seperating the wheat from the tares “DIVISION”?
Di-Vision 2 visions One of Good the Other of Evil
You think good and evil are the same?
Now, did Jesus come to bring division or not?
You should concede the point or everyone will see you reject the AKJV translation
Divide etymology
late 14c., from L. dividere “to force apart, cleave, distribute,” from dis- “apart” + -videre “to separate,”
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 31 2009,05:16) Hi BD,
Would you attempt to put the Lord Jesus under your false prophet?
Did Jesus come to bring division or not? Why are you so afraid to answer the question?Hi BD,
He came to divide the saved from those who refuse to accept rescue.
Which group will you be in?Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 30 2009,11:54) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 30 2009,21:52) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 30 2009,21:09) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 30 2009,20:39) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 30 2009,20:05) I CAME TO BRING DIVISIONS
Hi BD,That's why you are No longer alowed to post in “The believers Place”; you did it to yourself.
Do you regret your choice?Ed J
ED,I was quoting Jesus
Hi BD,If you were, you were quoting an incorrectly translated version.
That's not what the AKJV Bible says.
I also prove the AKJV Bible to be anointed of God; along with proving His existence.Division is a product of 'satan', and the AKJV Bible uses satan's 'title' in that verse (2Thess.2:3, 2:4)
“I” is God's title, existing in everybody! (Rev.21:7)
But you will not realize this difference, until you overcome the world!
That will “most certainly” be your next dispute! (AKJV Mark 13:6)Ed (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:14)
Are you now saying that Jesus causing division is a product of Satan?Isn't seperating the wheat from the tares “DIVISION”?
Di-Vision 2 visions One of Good the Other of Evil
You think good and evil are the same?
Now, did Jesus come to bring division or not?
You should concede the point or everyone will see you reject the AKJV translation
BDI agree with you on this one.
Just like the division between the Muslim and the Christian or the saved or unsaved!
Division is not all bad or else we would not have Men and ladies restrooms!
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 31 2009,09:13) Hi BD,
He came to divide the saved from those who refuse to accept rescue.
Which group will you be in?
So, you concede that the answer is yes.Jesus did come to cause division so why are you afraid to say it?
He also did not come to bring peace, but a sword
Will you concede or will you tey to change the masters words again?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 31 2009,09:19) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 30 2009,11:54) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 30 2009,21:52) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 30 2009,21:09) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 30 2009,20:39) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 30 2009,20:05) I CAME TO BRING DIVISIONS
Hi BD,That's why you are No longer alowed to post in “The believers Place”; you did it to yourself.
Do you regret your choice?Ed J
ED,I was quoting Jesus
Hi BD,If you were, you were quoting an incorrectly translated version.
That's not what the AKJV Bible says.
I also prove the AKJV Bible to be anointed of God; along with proving His existence.Division is a product of 'satan', and the AKJV Bible uses satan's 'title' in that verse (2Thess.2:3, 2:4)
“I” is God's title, existing in everybody! (Rev.21:7)
But you will not realize this difference, until you overcome the world!
That will “most certainly” be your next dispute! (AKJV Mark 13:6)Ed (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:14)
Are you now saying that Jesus causing division is a product of Satan?Isn't seperating the wheat from the tares “DIVISION”?
Di-Vision 2 visions One of Good the Other of Evil
You think good and evil are the same?
Now, did Jesus come to bring division or not?
You should concede the point or everyone will see you reject the AKJV translation
BDI agree with you on this one.
Just like the division between the Muslim and the Christian or the saved or unsaved!
Division is not all bad or else we would not have Men and ladies restrooms!
WJ
You are right and there will be Unsaved “Muslims” and “Christians” and some of those of all faiths that will receive Salvation, but most don't knowJesus said seperate the wheat from the chaff, not the Jew from the gentile or the Mulim from the Christian but most don't understand.
Learn:
Luke 10 (King James Version)
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.
35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.
36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise
Not the Christian, Not the Jew, Not The Muslim but the one that showed Mercy now you go and do likewise, WJ
Amen?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 31 2009,09:54) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 31 2009,09:13) Hi BD,
He came to divide the saved from those who refuse to accept rescue.
Which group will you be in?
So, you concede that the answer is yes.Jesus did come to cause division so why are you afraid to say it?
He also did not come to bring peace, but a sword
Will you concede or will you tey to change the masters words again?
Hi BD,
His sword divides those who obey from the rebels.
Which will you be with?Your ethics will tell you which side is right.
Will 'those who obey' be put to the sword for their sycophancy towards a genocidal monster?
Stuart
Hi BD:
You say:
Quote The problem with your defense is that Paul is speaking in the present not past tense he says: 19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
He is not saying “did” he is saying “do”
He was reflecting on the life that he lived under the Law of Moses, as I have already showed you by the scriptures. As an Apostle of the Lord, he was no longer under the law but part of the body of Christ.
And you say:
Quote Why wouldn't you just state what you know to be true, that Paul did say the things he said and either you simply don't care what he said or you excuse what he says because your just not confident enough to disagree with him. I am stating the truth and showing you out of my love for you that you are misunderstanding Paul and judging an Apostle of the Most High God through this misunderstanding. When I show you, you want to put your head in the sand and continue in your sin. There is no way to be saved except through the provision that God has made through the sacrifice of His Only Begotten Son and His Christ. Putting it simply, the Apostle Paul was showing that through the Law of Moses all of humanity can see that they have violated the Law of God, and therefore, they are in need of a saviour.
And then you try to show that Jesus and the Apostle Paul disagree in the following:
Quote NOT BRINGING PEACE Paul
Eph. 2:14 [Paul says:] For in Christ Jesus is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by abolishing in his flesh the Law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near.
Jesus
Matt. 10:34 [Jesus says:] “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Luke 12:51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.
——————————————-
I CAME TO BRING DIVISIONS
Paul
1Cor. 1:10 [Paul says:] I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.
Rom. 16:17 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people.
Jesus
Luke 12:51 [Jesus says:] Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three.
The division to which Jesus is referring is that which is caused when a person is born again and those in his family or some members of his family are not. As a child of God the born again person is subjected to him through his Word (which the scriptures state is the sword of the Lord), and those who are not born again are practicing sin. If you will just look at what they did to Jesus, maybe you will understand.
And maybe these scriptures to his disciples my help you to understand.
Quote Mat 5:10 Blessed [are] those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11 “Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake.
Mat 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor [fn] and hate your enemy.'
Mat 5:44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
Jhn 15:20 Remember the word that I said to you, 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours alsoThe Apostle Paul was speaking of unity in the body of Christ by the scriptures that you are quoting in which he states that Christ is our peace.
This is what Jesus was praying to God:
Quote Jhn 17:18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. Jhn 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
Jhn 17:20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will [fn] believe in Me through their word;
Jhn 17:21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, [are] in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
You then bring the following:
Quote Jhn 17:18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. Jhn 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
Jhn 17:20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will [fn] believe in Me through their word;
Jhn 17:21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, [are] in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
1 Co 14 is dealing with proper order when we as a body of Christ come to worship our God and to study His Word. And so, when we come together as the body of Christ, he says that we should do all things decently and in order.
Do you suppose that God would agree with this or not?
And then the following comparison:
Quote JESUS: BE AS CHILDREN TO ENTER HEAVEN; PAUL: NEVER BE AS CHILDREN Paul
1Cor. 13:11 [Paul says:] When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.
Jesus
Matt. 18:3 And [Jesus] said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Paul is speaking about becoming a mature Christian, and Jesus is speaking of humility.
Paul also agrees with
this. He says:Quote Phl 2:5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, Phl 2:6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
Phl 2:7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, [and] coming in the likeness of men.
Phl 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to [the point of] death, even the death of the cross.
Phl 2:9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
Phl 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
Phl 2:11 and [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
And then you bring the following in which I have no idea what you are saying is wrong with what the Apostle Paul is teaching about prayer:
Quote DO NOT MULTIPLY YOUR WORDS IN PRAYING Eph. 6:18 [Paul says:] And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.
1Ths. 3:10 Night and day we pray most earnestly that we may see you again and supply what is lacking in your faith. 5:17 pray continually;
Matt. 6:7 [Jesus says:] And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Mark 12:40 They devour widows' houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. Such men will be punished most severely.”
Eccl. 5:2 Do not be quick with your mouth, do not be hasty in your heart to utter anything before God. God is in heaven and you are on earth, so let your words be few.
How many times a day do Muslims pray?
This one is really funny. It says:
Quote And to top it off isn't the false prophet the one that was prophesied to be stuck in the head but not die? Would Jesus really strike someone BLIND but Paul was struck blind injury to the head
WAKE UP!!! The deception has already occured.
I do believe, however, that you have been deceived.???
And then the following:
Quote JESUS EATS WITH SINNERS; BUT PAUL SAYS YOU MUST NOT Paul
1Cor. 5:11 [Paul says:] But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
Jesus
Luke 5:30 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the Law who belonged to their sect complained to his disciples, “Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and `sinners'?” 31 Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Paul is speaking of not associating with someone who has professed to be a Christian and is not living the life and the purpose of this is that he might be ashamed. If he has been born again, then he knows the truth, and his punishment will be more severe if he does not repent than someone who is a sinner who has never been born again.
Jesus is speaking of eating with sinners that are not a part of his body. He did not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.
This is what the Apostle Paul said taken in context:
Quote 1Cr 5:9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 1Cr 5:10 Yet certainly [did] not [mean] with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.
1Cr 5:11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner–not even to eat with such a person.
1Cr 5:12 For what [have] I [to do] with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?
1Cr 5:13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”
Then you bring up the following:
Quote PAUL: WIDOWS ONLY TO GET AID IF OLDER THAN 60 AND TOTALLY PERFECT Wrong way
1Tim. 5:3 [Paul says:] Give proper recognition to those widows who are really in need. 6 But the widow who lives for pleasure is dead even while she lives. 9 No widow may be put on the list of widows unless she is over sixty, has been faithful to her husband, 10 and is well known for her good deeds, such as bringing up children, showing hospitality, washing the feet of the saints, helping those in trouble and devoting herself to all kinds of good deeds. 11 As for younger widows, do not put them on such a list. For when their sensual desires overcome their dedication to Christ, they want to marry. 12 Thus they bring judgment on themselves, because they have broken their first pledge. 15 Some have in fact already turned away to follow Satan.
2Ths. 3:10 [Paul says:] For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “”If a man will not work, he shall not eat.''
Right way
Lev. 19:10 Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God.
Lev. 23:22 “`When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God.'”
Mark 9:41 [Jesus says:] I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you even a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.
Luke 7:47 [Jesus says:] Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven –for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little.” 48 Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.” Luke 8:1 After this, Jesus traveled [and the] Twelve were with him, 2 and also some women: Mary (called Magdalene); … 3 Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.
Relative to widows the Apostle Paul makes these stipulations because he expects that the younger widows will get married and have a husband to support them whereas a widow of 60 or older will probably not remarry.
And he says if someone can work and does not want to work, he should not eat. Do you disagree?
There are poor people who are working but who are nevertheless need help or they may not be working because they lost
their job or because of a disability or for some other good reason. Paul's statement does not refer to these, but to someone who can work but doesn't want to work.And then the following:
Quote EVERYONE WHO SPEAKS AGAINST THE SON OF MAN WILL BE FORGIVEN Paul disagrees
Hebr. 10:29 [Paul says] How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Jesus insists
Luke 12:10 [Jesus says] And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, …
Matt. 12:32 [Jesus says] Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, …
Anyone who has spoken against Jesus will be forgiven when they come to God with a repentant heart through his provision, but this is the scripture that you quoted about not being forgiven in context:
Quote Hbr 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, Hbr 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
Hbr 10:28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Hbr 10:29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Hbr 10:30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” [fn] says the Lord. [fn] And again, “The LORD will judge His people.” [fn]
Hbr 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Do you understand? If you reject God's plan for salvation, there remains no more sacrifice for sin, but judgement day is coming.:(
And then you say:
Quote GOD MADE THE UNIVERSE, THEN MAN; PAUL: JESUS MADE EVERYTHING Paul said the following:
Quote Eph 3:9 and to make all see what [is] the fellowship [fn] of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; [fn] He, God created all things with his heirs in mind. All of God's children who will be saved in the body of Christ. This world is temporary, and God is calling whosoever will to come and enjoy his blessings but it is a choice. God will not force anyone to serve Him.
And then you bring up the following:
Quote GOD CALLS HIS ANGELS THE SONS OF GOD; PAUL SLANDERS ANGELS Paul
Hebr. 1:5 [Paul says,] For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” ? Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son” ?
Hebr. 1:14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?
1 Corinthians 6:3 Do you not know that we shall judge the angels?
Jesus
Matthew 13:49 So shall it be in the full end of the age, the messengers [angels] shall come forth and separate the evil out of the midst of the righteous, 50 And shall cast them to the furnace of the fire, …
Rev. 13:1 And the dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea… 3 One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast. 5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words … to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven.
Angels are called the sons of God. They are created sons just as Adam was a son of God, but the distinction is that none of these were the “ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD”
And so, to say that Paul slanders angels is a lie.
All must appear before the judgment seat of Christ, angels included.
Quote 2Cr 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things [done] in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2Cr 5:11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.
Quote Jud 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; And then the following:
Quote GOD DOES NOT OFFER HIS FIRSTBORN AS A SACRIFICE; PAUL SAYS HE DOES Paul
Rom. 3:24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.
Hebr. 10:10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
God
Micah 6:7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I offer my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? 8 He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.
God has provided the sacrifice. The only sacrifice that He requires of us that we trust Him by believing and obeying His Word.
This is God:
Quote Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. Jhn 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jhn 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Quote Isa 53:1 Who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? Isa 53:2 For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, And as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or comeliness; And when we see Him, [There is] no beauty that we should desire Him.
Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected by men, A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, [our] faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.
Isa 53:4 Surely He has borne our griefs And carried our sorrows; Yet we esteemed Him stricken, Smitten by God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But He [was] wounded for our transgressions, [He was] bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace [was] upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He opened not His mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, And as a sheep before its shearers is silent, So He opened not His mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment, And who will declare His generation? For He was cut off from the land of the living; For the transgressions of My people He was stricken.
Isa 53:9 And they [fn] made His grave with the wicked– But with the rich at His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor [was any] deceit in His mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put [Him] to grief. When You make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see [His] seed, He shall prolong [His] days, And the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see the labor of His soul, [fn] [and] be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, For He shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great, And He shall divide the spoil with the strong, Because He poured out His soul unto death, And He was numbered with the transgressors, And He bore the sin of many, And made intercession for the transgressors.
And you say:
Quote and finally BEFORE YHWH ONLY EVERY KNEE WILL BOW; PAUL DISAGREES
Isa. 45:21 ['”For this is what the LORD says:] Was it not I, the LORD ? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me. 22 “Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. 23 By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.
Matt. 12:32 [Jesus says:] Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven,
Paul disagrees
Romans 14:9 [Paul says:] For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11 It is written: ” 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.' “
Philippians 2:9 [Paul says:] Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
Quote Hbr 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, Hbr 1:2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
This is what Jesus stated and he agrees with the Apostle Paul:
Quote Jhn 5:22 For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, Jhn 5:23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
Jhn 5:24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
Jhn 5:25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.
Jhn 5:26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
Jhn 5:27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.
Jhn 5:28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
Jhn 5:29 and come forth–those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
Jhn 5:30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.
And finally,
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Dec. 31 2009,13:04) Hi BD: You say:
Quote The problem with your defense is that Paul is speaking in the present not past tense he says: 19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
He is not saying “did” he is saying “do”
He was reflecting on the life that he lived under the Law of Moses, as I have already showed you by the scriptures. As an Apostle of the Lord, he was no longer under the law but part of the body of Christ.
And you say:
Quote Why wouldn't you just state what you know to be true, that Paul did say the things he said and either you simply don't care what he said or you excuse what he says because your just not confident enough to disagree with him. I am stating the truth and showing you out of my love for you that you are misunderstanding Paul and judging an Apostle of the Most High God through this misunderstanding. When I show you, you want to put your head in the sand and continue in your sin. There is no way to be saved except through the provision that God has made through the sacrifice of His Only Begotten Son and His Christ. Putting it simply, the Apostle Paul was showing that through the Law of Moses all of humanity can see that they have violated the Law of God, and therefore, they are in need of a saviour.
And then you try to show that Jesus and the Apostle Paul disagree in the following:
Quote NOT BRINGING PEACE Paul
Eph. 2:14 [Paul says:] For in Christ Jesus is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by abolishing in his flesh the Law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near.
Jesus
Matt. 10:34 [Jesus says:] “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Luke 12:51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.
——————————————-
I CAME TO BRING DIVISIONS
Paul
1Cor. 1:10 [Paul says:] I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.
Rom. 16:17 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people.
Jesus
Luke 12:51 [Jesus says:] Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three.
The division to which Jesus is referring is that which is caused when a person is born again and those in his family or some members of his family are not. As a child of God the born again person is subjected to him through his Word (which the scriptures state is the sword of the Lord), and those who are not born again are practicing sin. If you will just look at what they did to Jesus, maybe you will understand.
And maybe these scriptures to his disciples my help you to understand.
Quote Mat 5:10 Blessed [are] those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11 “Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake.
Mat 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor [fn] and hate your enemy.'
Mat 5:44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
Jhn 15:20 Remember the word that I said to you, 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours alsoThe Apostle Paul was speaking of unity in the body of Christ by the scriptures that you are quoting in which he states that Christ is our peace.
This is what Jesus was praying to God:
Quote Jhn 17:18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. Jhn 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
Jhn 17:20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will [fn] believe in Me through their word;
Jhn 17:21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, [are] in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
You then bring the following:
Quote Jhn 17:18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. Jhn 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
Jhn 17:20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will [fn] believe in Me through their word;
Jhn 17:21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, [are] in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
1 Co 14 is dealing with proper order when we as a body of Christ come to worship our God and to study His Word. And so, when we come together as the body of Christ, he says that we should do all things decently and in order.
Do you suppose that God would agree with this or not?
And then the following comparison:
Quote JESUS: BE AS CHILDREN TO ENTER HEAVEN; PAUL: NEVER BE AS CHILDREN Paul
1Cor. 13:11 [Paul says:] When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.
Jesus
Matt. 18:3 And [Jesus] said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoev
er humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.Paul is speaking about becoming a mature Christian, and Jesus is speaking of humility.
Paul also agrees with this. He says:
Quote Phl 2:5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, Phl 2:6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
Phl 2:7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, [and] coming in the likeness of men.
Phl 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to [the point of] death, even the death of the cross.
Phl 2:9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
Phl 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
Phl 2:11 and [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
And then you bring the following in which I have no idea what you are saying is wrong with what the Apostle Paul is teaching about prayer:
Quote DO NOT MULTIPLY YOUR WORDS IN PRAYING Eph. 6:18 [Paul says:] And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.
1Ths. 3:10 Night and day we pray most earnestly that we may see you again and supply what is lacking in your faith. 5:17 pray continually;
Matt. 6:7 [Jesus says:] And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Mark 12:40 They devour widows' houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. Such men will be punished most severely.”
Eccl. 5:2 Do not be quick with your mouth, do not be hasty in your heart to utter anything before God. God is in heaven and you are on earth, so let your words be few.
How many times a day do Muslims pray?
This one is really funny. It says:
Quote And to top it off isn't the false prophet the one that was prophesied to be stuck in the head but not die? Would Jesus really strike someone BLIND but Paul was struck blind injury to the head
WAKE UP!!! The deception has already occured.
I do believe, however, that you have been deceived.???
And then the following:
Quote JESUS EATS WITH SINNERS; BUT PAUL SAYS YOU MUST NOT Paul
1Cor. 5:11 [Paul says:] But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
Jesus
Luke 5:30 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the Law who belonged to their sect complained to his disciples, “Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and `sinners'?” 31 Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Paul is speaking of not associating with someone who has professed to be a Christian and is not living the life and the purpose of this is that he might be ashamed. If he has been born again, then he knows the truth, and his punishment will be more severe if he does not repent than someone who is a sinner who has never been born again.
Jesus is speaking of eating with sinners that are not a part of his body. He did not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.
This is what the Apostle Paul said taken in context:
Quote 1Cr 5:9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 1Cr 5:10 Yet certainly [did] not [mean] with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.
1Cr 5:11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner–not even to eat with such a person.
1Cr 5:12 For what [have] I [to do] with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?
1Cr 5:13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”
Then you bring up the following:
Quote PAUL: WIDOWS ONLY TO GET AID IF OLDER THAN 60 AND TOTALLY PERFECT Wrong way
1Tim. 5:3 [Paul says:] Give proper recognition to those widows who are really in need. 6 But the widow who lives for pleasure is dead even while she lives. 9 No widow may be put on the list of widows unless she is over sixty, has been faithful to her husband, 10 and is well known for her good deeds, such as bringing up children, showing hospitality, washing the feet of the saints, helping those in trouble and devoting herself to all kinds of good deeds. 11 As for younger widows, do not put them on such a list. For when their sensual desires overcome their dedication to Christ, they want to marry. 12 Thus they bring judgment on themselves, because they have broken their first pledge. 15 Some have in fact already turned away to follow Satan.
2Ths. 3:10 [Paul says:] For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “”If a man will not work, he shall not eat.''
Right way
Lev. 19:10 Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God.
Lev. 23:22 “`When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God.'”
Mark 9:41 [Jesus says:] I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you even a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.
Luke 7:47 [Jesus says:] Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven –for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little.” 48 Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.” Luke 8:1 After this, Jesus traveled [and the] Twelve were with him, 2 and also some women: Mary (called Magdalene); … 3 Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.
Relative to widows the Apostle Paul makes these stipulations because he expects that the younger widows will get married and have a husband to supp
ort them whereas a widow of 60 or older will probably not remarry.And he says if someone can work and does not want to work, he should not eat. Do you disagree?
There are poor people who are working but who are nevertheless need help or they may not be working because they lost their job or because of a disability or for some other good reason. Paul's statement does not refer to these, but to someone who can work but doesn't want to work.
And then the following:
Quote EVERYONE WHO SPEAKS AGAINST THE SON OF MAN WILL BE FORGIVEN Paul disagrees
Hebr. 10:29 [Paul says] How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Jesus insists
Luke 12:10 [Jesus says] And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, …
Matt. 12:32 [Jesus says] Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, …
Anyone who has spoken against Jesus will be forgiven when they come to God with a repentant heart through his provision, but this is the scripture that you quoted about not being forgiven in context:
Quote Hbr 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, Hbr 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
Hbr 10:28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Hbr 10:29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Hbr 10:30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” [fn] says the Lord. [fn] And again, “The LORD will judge His people.” [fn]
Hbr 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Do you understand? If you reject God's plan for salvation, there remains no more sacrifice for sin, but judgement day is coming.:(
And then you say:
Quote GOD MADE THE UNIVERSE, THEN MAN; PAUL: JESUS MADE EVERYTHING Paul said the following:
Quote Eph 3:9 and to make all see what [is] the fellowship [fn] of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; [fn] He, God created all things with his heirs in mind. All of God's children who will be saved in the body of Christ. This world is temporary, and God is calling whosoever will to come and enjoy his blessings but it is a choice. God will not force anyone to serve Him.
And then you bring up the following:
Quote GOD CALLS HIS ANGELS THE SONS OF GOD; PAUL SLANDERS ANGELS Paul
Hebr. 1:5 [Paul says,] For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” ? Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son” ?
Hebr. 1:14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?
1 Corinthians 6:3 Do you not know that we shall judge the angels?
Jesus
Matthew 13:49 So shall it be in the full end of the age, the messengers [angels] shall come forth and separate the evil out of the midst of the righteous, 50 And shall cast them to the furnace of the fire, …
Rev. 13:1 And the dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea… 3 One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast. 5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words … to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven.
Angels are called the sons of God. They are created sons just as Adam was a son of God, but the distinction is that none of these were the “ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD”
And so, to say that Paul slanders angels is a lie.
All must appear before the judgment seat of Christ, angels included.
Quote 2Cr 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things [done] in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2Cr 5:11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.
Quote Jud 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; And then the following:
Quote GOD DOES NOT OFFER HIS FIRSTBORN AS A SACRIFICE; PAUL SAYS HE DOES Paul
Rom. 3:24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.
Hebr. 10:10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
God
Micah 6:7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I offer my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? 8 He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.
God has provided the sacrifice. The only sacrifice that He requires of us that we trust Him by believing and obeying His Word.
This is God:
Quote Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. Jhn 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
Jhn 3:18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he h
as not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.Jhn 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Quote Isa 53:1 Who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? Isa 53:2 For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, And as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or comeliness; And when we see Him, [There is] no beauty that we should desire Him.
Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected by men, A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, [our] faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.
Isa 53:4 Surely He has borne our griefs And carried our sorrows; Yet we esteemed Him stricken, Smitten by God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But He [was] wounded for our transgressions, [He was] bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace [was] upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He opened not His mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, And as a sheep before its shearers is silent, So He opened not His mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment, And who will declare His generation? For He was cut off from the land of the living; For the transgressions of My people He was stricken.
Isa 53:9 And they [fn] made His grave with the wicked– But with the rich at His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor [was any] deceit in His mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put [Him] to grief. When You make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see [His] seed, He shall prolong [His] days, And the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see the labor of His soul, [fn] [and] be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, For He shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great, And He shall divide the spoil with the strong, Because He poured out His soul unto death, And He was numbered with the transgressors, And He bore the sin of many, And made intercession for the transgressors.
And you say:
Quote and finally BEFORE YHWH ONLY EVERY KNEE WILL BOW; PAUL DISAGREES
Isa. 45:21 ['”For this is what the LORD says:] Was it not I, the LORD ? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me. 22 “Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. 23 By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.
Matt. 12:32 [Jesus says:] Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven,
Paul disagrees
Romans 14:9 [Paul says:] For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11 It is written: ” 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.' “
Philippians 2:9 [Paul says:] Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
Quote Hbr 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, Hbr 1:2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
This is what Jesus stated and he agrees with the Apostle Paul:
Quote Jhn 5:22 For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, Jhn 5:23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
Jhn 5:24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
Jhn 5:25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.
Jhn 5:26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
Jhn 5:27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.
Jhn 5:28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
Jhn 5:29 and come forth–those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
Jhn 5:30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.
And finally,
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,Has paul ever lied or use deceit and craftiness to sprad the gospel? Yes or No?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 31 2009,14:17) Hi BD,
You can cast the first stone?Has paul ever lied or use deceit and craftiness to spread the gospel? Yes or No?
Why is that hard to answer?If I asked the same question about Jesus would you even hesitate to say no for a second?
That let's me know what you really want to admit but are too afraid.
So,
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 31 2009,14:07) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 31 2009,13:04) Hi BD: You say:
Quote The problem with your defense is that Paul is speaking in the present not past tense he says: 19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
He is not saying “did” he is saying “do”
He was reflecting on the life that he lived under the Law of Moses, as I have already showed you by the scriptures. As an Apostle of the Lord, he was no longer under the law but part of the body of Christ.
And you say:
Quote Why wouldn't you just state what you know to be true, that Paul did say the things he said and either you simply don't care what he said or you excuse what he says because your just not confident enough to disagree with him. I am stating the truth and showing you out of my love for you that you are misunderstanding Paul and judging an Apostle of the Most High God through this misunderstanding. When I show you, you want to put your head in the sand and continue in your sin. There is no way to be saved except through the provision that God has made through the sacrifice of His Only Begotten Son and His Christ. Putting it simply, the Apostle Paul was showing that through the Law of Moses all of humanity can see that they have violated the Law of God, and therefore, they are in need of a saviour.
And then you try to show that Jesus and the Apostle Paul disagree in the following:
Quote NOT BRINGING PEACE Paul
Eph. 2:14 [Paul says:] For in Christ Jesus is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by abolishing in his flesh the Law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near.
Jesus
Matt. 10:34 [Jesus says:] “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Luke 12:51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.
——————————————-
I CAME TO BRING DIVISIONS
Paul
1Cor. 1:10 [Paul says:] I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.
Rom. 16:17 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people.
Jesus
Luke 12:51 [Jesus says:] Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three.
The division to which Jesus is referring is that which is caused when a person is born again and those in his family or some members of his family are not. As a child of God the born again person is subjected to him through his Word (which the scriptures state is the sword of the Lord), and those who are not born again are practicing sin. If you will just look at what they did to Jesus, maybe you will understand.
And maybe these scriptures to his disciples my help you to understand.
Quote Mat 5:10 Blessed [are] those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:11 “Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake.
Mat 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor [fn] and hate your enemy.'
Mat 5:44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
Jhn 15:20 Remember the word that I said to you, 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours alsoThe Apostle Paul was speaking of unity in the body of Christ by the scriptures that you are quoting in which he states that Christ is our peace.
This is what Jesus was praying to God:
Quote Jhn 17:18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. Jhn 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
Jhn 17:20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will [fn] believe in Me through their word;
Jhn 17:21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, [are] in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
You then bring the following:
Quote Jhn 17:18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. Jhn 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
Jhn 17:20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will [fn] believe in Me through their word;
Jhn 17:21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, [are] in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
1 Co 14 is dealing with proper order when we as a body of Christ come to worship our God and to study His Word. And so, when we come together as the body of Christ, he says that we should do all things decently and in order.
Do you suppose that God would agree with this or not?
And then the following comparison:
Quote JESUS: BE AS CHILDREN TO ENTER HEAVEN; PAUL: NEVER BE AS CHILDREN Paul
1Cor. 13:11 [Paul says:] When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a m
an, I put childish ways behind me.Jesus
Matt. 18:3 And [Jesus] said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Paul is speaking about becoming a mature Christian, and Jesus is speaking of humility.
Paul also agrees with this. He says:
Quote Phl 2:5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, Phl 2:6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
Phl 2:7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, [and] coming in the likeness of men.
Phl 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to [the point of] death, even the death of the cross.
Phl 2:9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
Phl 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth,
Phl 2:11 and [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
And then you bring the following in which I have no idea what you are saying is wrong with what the Apostle Paul is teaching about prayer:
Quote DO NOT MULTIPLY YOUR WORDS IN PRAYING Eph. 6:18 [Paul says:] And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.
1Ths. 3:10 Night and day we pray most earnestly that we may see you again and supply what is lacking in your faith. 5:17 pray continually;
Matt. 6:7 [Jesus says:] And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Mark 12:40 They devour widows' houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. Such men will be punished most severely.”
Eccl. 5:2 Do not be quick with your mouth, do not be hasty in your heart to utter anything before God. God is in heaven and you are on earth, so let your words be few.
How many times a day do Muslims pray?
This one is really funny. It says:
Quote And to top it off isn't the false prophet the one that was prophesied to be stuck in the head but not die? Would Jesus really strike someone BLIND but Paul was struck blind injury to the head
WAKE UP!!! The deception has already occured.
I do believe, however, that you have been deceived.???
And then the following:
Quote JESUS EATS WITH SINNERS; BUT PAUL SAYS YOU MUST NOT Paul
1Cor. 5:11 [Paul says:] But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
Jesus
Luke 5:30 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the Law who belonged to their sect complained to his disciples, “Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and `sinners'?” 31 Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Paul is speaking of not associating with someone who has professed to be a Christian and is not living the life and the purpose of this is that he might be ashamed. If he has been born again, then he knows the truth, and his punishment will be more severe if he does not repent than someone who is a sinner who has never been born again.
Jesus is speaking of eating with sinners that are not a part of his body. He did not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.
This is what the Apostle Paul said taken in context:
Quote 1Cr 5:9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 1Cr 5:10 Yet certainly [did] not [mean] with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.
1Cr 5:11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner–not even to eat with such a person.
1Cr 5:12 For what [have] I [to do] with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?
1Cr 5:13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”
Then you bring up the following:
Quote PAUL: WIDOWS ONLY TO GET AID IF OLDER THAN 60 AND TOTALLY PERFECT Wrong way
1Tim. 5:3 [Paul says:] Give proper recognition to those widows who are really in need. 6 But the widow who lives for pleasure is dead even while she lives. 9 No widow may be put on the list of widows unless she is over sixty, has been faithful to her husband, 10 and is well known for her good deeds, such as bringing up children, showing hospitality, washing the feet of the saints, helping those in trouble and devoting herself to all kinds of good deeds. 11 As for younger widows, do not put them on such a list. For when their sensual desires overcome their dedication to Christ, they want to marry. 12 Thus they bring judgment on themselves, because they have broken their first pledge. 15 Some have in fact already turned away to follow Satan.
2Ths. 3:10 [Paul says:] For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “”If a man will not work, he shall not eat.''
Right way
Lev. 19:10 Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God.
Lev. 23:22 “`When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God.'”
Mark 9:41 [Jesus says:] I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you even a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.
Luke 7:47 [Jesus says:] Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven –for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little.” 48 Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.” Luke 8:1 After this, Jesus traveled [and the] Twelve were with him, 2 and also some women: Mary (called Magdalene); … 3 Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out
of their own means.Relative to widows the Apostle Paul makes these stipulations because he expects that the younger widows will get married and have a husband to support them whereas a widow of 60 or older will probably not remarry.
And he says if someone can work and does not want to work, he should not eat. Do you disagree?
There are poor people who are working but who are nevertheless need help or they may not be working because they lost their job or because of a disability or for some other good reason. Paul's statement does not refer to these, but to someone who can work but doesn't want to work.
And then the following:
Quote EVERYONE WHO SPEAKS AGAINST THE SON OF MAN WILL BE FORGIVEN Paul disagrees
Hebr. 10:29 [Paul says] How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Jesus insists
Luke 12:10 [Jesus says] And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, …
Matt. 12:32 [Jesus says] Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, …
Anyone who has spoken against Jesus will be forgiven when they come to God with a repentant heart through his provision, but this is the scripture that you quoted about not being forgiven in context:
Quote Hbr 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, Hbr 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
Hbr 10:28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Hbr 10:29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Hbr 10:30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” [fn] says the Lord. [fn] And again, “The LORD will judge His people.” [fn]
Hbr 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Do you understand? If you reject God's plan for salvation, there remains no more sacrifice for sin, but judgement day is coming.:(
And then you say:
Quote GOD MADE THE UNIVERSE, THEN MAN; PAUL: JESUS MADE EVERYTHING Paul said the following:
Quote Eph 3:9 and to make all see what [is] the fellowship [fn] of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; [fn] He, God created all things with his heirs in mind. All of God's children who will be saved in the body of Christ. This world is temporary, and God is calling whosoever will to come and enjoy his blessings but it is a choice. God will not force anyone to serve Him.
And then you bring up the following:
Quote GOD CALLS HIS ANGELS THE SONS OF GOD; PAUL SLANDERS ANGELS Paul
Hebr. 1:5 [Paul says,] For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” ? Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son” ?
Hebr. 1:14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?
1 Corinthians 6:3 Do you not know that we shall judge the angels?
Jesus
Matthew 13:49 So shall it be in the full end of the age, the messengers [angels] shall come forth and separate the evil out of the midst of the righteous, 50 And shall cast them to the furnace of the fire, …
Rev. 13:1 And the dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea… 3 One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast. 5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words … to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven.
Angels are called the sons of God. They are created sons just as Adam was a son of God, but the distinction is that none of these were the “ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD”
And so, to say that Paul slanders angels is a lie.
All must appear before the judgment seat of Christ, angels included.
Quote 2Cr 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things [done] in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2Cr 5:11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences.
Quote Jud 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; And then the following:
Quote GOD DOES NOT OFFER HIS FIRSTBORN AS A SACRIFICE; PAUL SAYS HE DOES Paul
Rom. 3:24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.
Hebr. 10:10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
God
Micah 6:7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I offer my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? 8 He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.
God has provided the sacrifice. The only sacrifice that He requires of us that we trust Him by believing and obeying His Word.
This is God:
Quote Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. Jhn 3:17 For God did n
ot send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.Jhn 3:18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jhn 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Quote Isa 53:1 Who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? Isa 53:2 For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, And as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or comeliness; And when we see Him, [There is] no beauty that we should desire Him.
Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected by men, A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, [our] faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.
Isa 53:4 Surely He has borne our griefs And carried our sorrows; Yet we esteemed Him stricken, Smitten by God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But He [was] wounded for our transgressions, [He was] bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace [was] upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He opened not His mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, And as a sheep before its shearers is silent, So He opened not His mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment, And who will declare His generation? For He was cut off from the land of the living; For the transgressions of My people He was stricken.
Isa 53:9 And they [fn] made His grave with the wicked– But with the rich at His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor [was any] deceit in His mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put [Him] to grief. When You make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see [His] seed, He shall prolong [His] days, And the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see the labor of His soul, [fn] [and] be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, For He shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great, And He shall divide the spoil with the strong, Because He poured out His soul unto death, And He was numbered with the transgressors, And He bore the sin of many, And made intercession for the transgressors.
And you say:
Quote and finally BEFORE YHWH ONLY EVERY KNEE WILL BOW; PAUL DISAGREES
Isa. 45:21 ['”For this is what the LORD says:] Was it not I, the LORD ? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me. 22 “Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. 23 By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.
Matt. 12:32 [Jesus says:] Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven,
Paul disagrees
Romans 14:9 [Paul says:] For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11 It is written: ” 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.' “
Philippians 2:9 [Paul says:] Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
Quote Hbr 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, Hbr 1:2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
This is what Jesus stated and he agrees with the Apostle Paul:
Quote Jhn 5:22 For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, Jhn 5:23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
Jhn 5:24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
Jhn 5:25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.
Jhn 5:26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
Jhn 5:27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.
Jhn 5:28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice
Jhn 5:29 and come forth–those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
Jhn 5:30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.
And finally,
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,Has paul ever lied or use deceit and craftiness to sprad the gospel? Yes or No?
Hi BD:He probably did before he became a Christian, and it is possible for anyone to make a mistake after we are Christians, but no, I don't believe that he lied during his ministry. But neither you nor I are the judge.
If you have a scripture that you want to discuss, I will be happy to address it.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi BD:
I believe that I didn't copy the following as you posted it.
Quote ORDER AND DISORDER God
Gen. 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
Isa. 24:1 See, the LORD is going to lay waste the earth and devastate it; he will ruin its face and scatter its inhabitants–
Isa. 34:11 The desert owl and screech owl will possess it; the great owl and the raven will nest there. God will stretch out over Edom the measuring line of chaos and the plumb line of desolation.
Isa. 45:7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
Paul
1Cor. 14:33 [Paul says:] For God is not a God of disorder but of peace…
But in 1 Co. 14 the Apostle Paul is addressing the congregation that when we come together to worship God and study His Word all things must be done decently and in order.
Do you not agree that this is what God would want?
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 31 2009,09:11) Did Jesus come to bring division or not?
Hi BD,NOT=49! (John 18:36 / 2 Timothy 2:13) Lord=49
Jesus is Lord=151
Here is a previous quote from me…
“I” is God's title, existing in everybody! (Rev.21:7)
But you will not realize this difference, until you overcome the world!
That will “most certainly” be your next dispute! (AKJV Mark 13:6)Ed (AKJV Joshua 22:34 Isaiah 60:14)
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