- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (942767 @ Dec. 29 2009,14:59) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 29 2009,14:35) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 29 2009,10:10) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 26 2009,08:55) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 26 2009,01:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,20:13) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 25 2009,14:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,12:03) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,10:54) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,10:42) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,09:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,09:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2009,07:53) Hi BD,
Jesus was sent there and spoke of many things including the kingdom.
He is filled with light and truth the light of the world and salvation is in him.
Paul was lit by Christ and given his message to speak and brought many to that light.
So Paul became the light and the way to the gentiles, right?
Hi BD,Why do you shoot down Paul's writings out of one side of your mouth, and then with the other “quote” them to further your beliefs?
Why is that?
Ed J
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Hebrews 4:11-13Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand;
Psalm 149:5Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 Timothy 2:14-16
Hi BD,Those verses are “great”, but do not answer the question I asked you?
Ed J
The answer is that even a liar speaks truth they just distort it
Hi BD:Yes, that is true, but Paul is not the liar.
Love in Christ,
Marty
For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
Romans 3:6-8I am sure you see that the bold letters above are not my own invention.
Hi BD:The problem is that you are misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul is saying. He is not saying that he is a liar, but he is saying that all both Jew and gentile have sinned, and that the righteousness of God is magnified through the fact all of humanity regardless of how good some may be have fallen short of His righteous standards.
But some were saying that he was preaching that since our unrighteousness magnifies His righeousness should we not sin all the more so that His righteousness will be magnified all the the more. Please read this in context.
Quote ESV Rom 3:1 Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? Rom 3:2 Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God.
Rom 3:3 What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God?
Rom 3:4 By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar, as it is written, “That you may be justified in your words, and prevail when you are judged.”
Rom 3:5 But if our unrighteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.)
Rom 3:6 By no means! For then how could God judge the world?
Rom 3:7 But if through my lie God's truth abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?
Rom 3:8 And why not do evil that good may come?–as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.
Rom 3:9 What then? Are we Jews [fn] any better off? [fn] No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,
Rom 3:10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;
Quote NLT Rom 3:1 Then what's the advantage of being a Jew? Is there any value in the Jewish ceremony of circumcision? Rom 3:2 Yes, being a Jew has many advantages. First of all, the Jews were entrusted with the whole revelation of God. [fn]
Rom 3:3 True, some of them were unfaithful; but just because they broke their promises, does that mean God will break his promises?
Rom 3:4 Of course not! Though everyone else in the world is a liar, God is true. As the Scriptures say, “He will be proved right in what he says, and he will win his case in court.” [fn]
Rom 3:5 “But,” some say, “our sins serve a good purpose, for people will see God's goodness when he declares us sinners to be innocent. Isn't it unfair, then, for God to punish us?” (That is actually the way some people talk.)
Rom 3:6 Of course not! If God is not just, how is he qualified to judge the world?
Rom 3:7 “But,” some might still argue, “how can God judge and condemn me as a sinner if my dishonesty highlights his truthfulness and brings him
more glory?”Rom 3:8 If you follow that kind of thinking, however, you might as well say that the more we sin the better it is! Those who say such things deserve to be condemned, yet some slander me by saying this is what I preach!
Rom 3:9 Well then, are we Jews better than others? [fn] No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles, are under the power of sin.
Rom 3:10 As the Scriptures say, “No one is good– not even one.
Love in Christ,
Marty
You are completely not accepting the fact even Romans 3:10 is a misquote of the Old TestamentThe “No one is righteous” is takien out of context because it was referring to Non-believers:
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14:1-3The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 53:1-3There are my two witnesses proving how Paul misquotes the Old Testament.
He admitted he lies and he also admits he deceives
But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you with guile.
2 Corinthians 12:15-17Paul admits these things and you would prefer to believe him over your own Lord, Paul even says:
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Romans 3:3-5and now you will see that Paul was talking about his ownself being a Liar because like he quoted again from the Old Testament what he meant:
Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
Psalm 51:3-5Now this is the full vision of what Paul is about, accept it
Psalm 51
1Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.2Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
7Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
10Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
13Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
14Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
15O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
16For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
18Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
19Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.
No, no, no. I have already showed you that you are misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul said. It is difficult to understand for even someone who has the Holy Spirit.Love in Christ,
Marty
But God is not the author of confusion and yet you admit“It is difficult to understand for even someone who has the Holy Spirit.”
Hi BD:Yes, some things that the Apostle Paul writes are hard to understand, but when I do not understand something, I go to God in prayer and ask Him to give me understanding. I can assure that the Apostle Paul is not a false prophet, but this is what the Apostle Peters says about some of his epistles:
Quote 2Pe 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 2Pe 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
2Pe 3:17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
Love in Christ,
Marty
That was referring to the return of Christ and says nothing about the methods of Paul which Paul himself said was Crafty using Guile becoming all things to all peopleQuote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 29 2009,15:12) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 29 2009,14:59) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 29 2009,14:35) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 29 2009,10:10) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 26 2009,08:55) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 26 2009,01:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,20:13) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 25 2009,14:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,12:03) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,10:54) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,10:42) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,09:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,09:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2009,07:53) Hi BD,
Jesus was sent there and spoke of many things including the kingdom.
He is filled with light and truth the light of the world and salvation is in him.
Paul was lit by Christ and given his message to speak and brought many to that light.
So Paul became the light and the way to the gentiles, right?
Hi BD,Why do you shoot down Paul's writings out of one side of your mouth, and then with the other “quote” them to further your beliefs?
Why is that?
Ed J
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Hebrews 4:11-13Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand;
Psalm 149:5Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 Timothy 2:14-16
Hi BD,Those verses are “great”, but do not answer the question I asked you?
Ed J
The answer is that even a liar speaks truth they just distort it
Hi BD:Yes, that is true, but Paul is not the liar.
Love in Christ,
Marty
For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
Romans 3:6-8I am sure you see that the bold letters above are not my own invention.
Hi BD:The problem is that you are misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul is saying. He is not saying that he is a liar, but he is saying that all both Jew and gentile have sinned, and that the righteousness of God is magnified through the fact all of humanity regardless of how good some may be have fallen short of His righteous standards.
But some were saying that he was preaching that since our unrighteousness magnifies His righeousness should we not sin all the more so that His righteousness will be magnified all the the more. Please read this in context.
Quote ESV Rom 3:1 Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? Rom 3:2 Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God.
Rom 3:3 What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God?
Rom 3:4 By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar, as it is written, “That you may be justified in your words, and prevail when you are judged.”
Rom 3:5 But if our unrighteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.)
Rom 3:6 By no means! For then how could God judge the world?
Rom 3:7 But if through my lie God's truth abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?
Rom 3:8 And why not do evil that good may come?–as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.
Rom 3:9 What then? Are we Jews [fn] any better off? [fn] No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,
Rom 3:10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;
Quote NLT Rom 3:1 Then what's the advantage of being a Jew? Is there any value in the Jewish ceremony of circumcision? Rom 3:2 Yes, being a Jew has many advantages. First of all, the Jews were entrusted with the whole revelation of God. [fn]
Rom 3:3 True, some of them were unfaithful; but just because they broke their promises, does that mean God will break his promises?
Rom 3:4 Of course not! Though everyone else in the world is a liar, God is true. As the Scriptures say, “He will be proved right in what he says, and he will win his case in court.” [fn]
Rom 3:5 “But,” some say, “our sins serve a good purpose, for people will see God's goodness when he declares us sinners to be innocent. Isn't it unfair, then, for God to punish us?” (That is actually the way some people talk.)
Rom 3:6 Of course n
ot! If God is not just, how is he qualified to judge the world?Rom 3:7 “But,” some might still argue, “how can God judge and condemn me as a sinner if my dishonesty highlights his truthfulness and brings him more glory?”
Rom 3:8 If you follow that kind of thinking, however, you might as well say that the more we sin the better it is! Those who say such things deserve to be condemned, yet some slander me by saying this is what I preach!
Rom 3:9 Well then, are we Jews better than others? [fn] No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles, are under the power of sin.
Rom 3:10 As the Scriptures say, “No one is good– not even one.
Love in Christ,
Marty
You are completely not accepting the fact even Romans 3:10 is a misquote of the Old TestamentThe “No one is righteous” is takien out of context because it was referring to Non-believers:
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14:1-3The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 53:1-3There are my two witnesses proving how Paul misquotes the Old Testament.
He admitted he lies and he also admits he deceives
But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you with guile.
2 Corinthians 12:15-17Paul admits these things and you would prefer to believe him over your own Lord, Paul even says:
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Romans 3:3-5and now you will see that Paul was talking about his ownself being a Liar because like he quoted again from the Old Testament what he meant:
Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
Psalm 51:3-5Now this is the full vision of what Paul is about, accept it
Psalm 51
1Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.2Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
7Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
10Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
13Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
14Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
15O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
16For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
18Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
19Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.
No, no, no. I have already showed you that you are misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul said. It is difficult to understand for even someone who has the Holy Spirit.Love in Christ,
Marty
But God is not the author of confusion and yet you admit“It is difficult to understand for even someone who has the Holy Spirit.”
Hi BD:Yes, some things that the Apostle Paul writes are hard to understand, but when I do not understand something, I go to God in prayer and ask Him to give me understanding. I can assure that the Apostle Paul is not a false prophet, but this is what the Apostle Peters says about some of his epistles:
Quote 2Pe 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 2Pe 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
2Pe 3:17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
Love in Christ,
Marty
That was referring to the return of Christ and says nothing about the methods of Paul which Paul himself said was Crafty using Guile becoming all things to all people
Hi BD:You are misunderstanding what was being said there also.
Read the whole thing before you start formulating an opinion of what he said.
Love in Christ
MartyI think that the truth is Jesus, and that Paul had a place in what was and is happening today,
I dont think there is any harm in if we do or dont read or understand the books of Paul, but we shouldnt judge either way and should love Paul, and its weather or not we understand the real message of Jesus, who was the only one sent down from heaven with a message to mankind, and is soon to return again, and I know that then those who trust in the Lord will be saved.
Quote (karmarie @ Dec. 29 2009,20:25) I think that the truth is Jesus, and that Paul had a place in what was and is happening today, I dont think there is any harm in if we do or dont read or understand the books of Paul, but we shouldnt judge either way and should love Paul, and its weather or not we understand the real message of Jesus, who was the only one sent down from heaven with a message to mankind, and is soon to return again, and I know that then those who trust in the Lord will be saved.
It must be important for a bible-believing christian to know whether Paul was actually channeling the words of Jesus, the man who allegedly refused to stone an adulteress although he qualified himself as 'one without sin', when he wrote in Romans that gays are 'worthy of death'.Paul was full of telling people to follow him, and sometimes remembered to mention Jesus as well. If Jesus did exist, I think he would be disgusted at the words put in his mouth by Paul, not that we can really know anything that Jesus said or did without needing magic to supply the text.
Stuart
Quote (karmarie @ Dec. 29 2009,21:36) Stu, lol, you dont need magic to supply the text, its all within
I know, you have to have magical powers inside you to believe. I've heard it all before.I don't think there is anything that a believer can know that a non-believer cannot, in principle, also know.
All those who dedicated to repenting their sins, accepted Jesus for their salvation, experienced 'the holy spirit' and who described exactly the same set of 'special' experiences that other christians do, but then suddenly deconverted and become atheists are the ones that call this bluff of the christian.
It is when we hear christians call these apostates 'not real christians' that we see the desperation of the emptyness of believing things that just really ain't so.
What is more, aside from worshipping Imaginary Friends, there is no moral act that a christian can do that an atheist cannot.
If you have to invoke magic, then magic is what you believe in.
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Dec. 29 2009,22:51) Quote (karmarie @ Dec. 29 2009,21:36) Stu, lol, you dont need magic to supply the text, its all within
I know, you have to have magical powers inside you to believe. I've heard it all before.I don't think there is anything that a believer can know that a non-believer cannot, in principle, also know.
All those who dedicated to repenting their sins, accepted Jesus for their salvation, experienced 'the holy spirit' and who described exactly the same set of 'special' experiences that other christians do, but then suddenly deconverted and become atheists are the ones that call this bluff of the christian.
It is when we hear christians call these apostates 'not real christians' that we see the desperation of the emptyness of believing things that just really ain't so.
What is more, aside from worshipping Imaginary Friends, there is no moral act that a christian can do that an atheist cannot.
If you have to invoke magic, then magic is what you believe in.
Stuart
We're living in the days of the great Apostacy Stu.Quote (942767 @ Dec. 29 2009,16:06) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 29 2009,15:12) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 29 2009,14:59) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 29 2009,14:35) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 29 2009,10:10) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 26 2009,08:55) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 26 2009,01:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,20:13) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 25 2009,14:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,12:03) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,10:54) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,10:42) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,09:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,09:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2009,07:53) Hi BD,
Jesus was sent there and spoke of many things including the kingdom.
He is filled with light and truth the light of the world and salvation is in him.
Paul was lit by Christ and given his message to speak and brought many to that light.
So Paul became the light and the way to the gentiles, right?
Hi BD,Why do you shoot down Paul's writings out of one side of your mouth, and then with the other “quote” them to further your beliefs?
Why is that?
Ed J
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Hebrews 4:11-13Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand;
Psalm 149:5Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 Timothy 2:14-16
Hi BD,Those verses are “great”, but do not answer the question I asked you?
Ed J
The answer is that even a liar speaks truth they just distort it
Hi BD:Yes, that is true, but Paul is not the liar.
Love in Christ,
Marty
For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
Romans 3:6-8I am sure you see that the bold letters above are not my own invention.
Hi BD:The problem is that you are misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul is saying. He is not saying that he is a liar, but he is saying that all both Jew and gentile have sinned, and that the righteousness of God is magnified through the fact all of humanity regardless of how good some may be have fallen short of His righteous standards.
But some were saying that he was preaching that since our unrighteousness magnifies His righeousness should we not sin all the more so that His righteousness will be magnified all the the more. Please read this in context.
Quote ESV Rom 3:1 Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? Rom 3:2 Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God.
Rom 3:3 What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God?
Rom 3:4 By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar, as it is written, “That you may be justified in your words, and prevail when you are judged.”
Rom 3:5 But if our unrighteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.)
Rom 3:6 By no means! For then how could God judge the world?
Rom 3:7 But if through my lie God's truth abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?
Rom 3:8 And why not do evil that good may come?–as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.
Rom 3:9 What then? Are we Jews [fn] any better off? [fn] No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,
Rom 3:10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;
Quote NLT Rom 3:1 Then what's the advantage of being a Jew? Is there any value in the Jewish ceremony of circumcision? Rom 3:2 Yes, being a Jew has many advantages. First of all, the Jews were entrusted with the whole revelation of God. [fn]
Rom 3:3 True, some of them were unfaithful; but just because they broke their promises, does that mean God will break his promises?
Rom 3:4 Of course not! Though everyone else in the world is a liar, God is true. As the Scriptures say, “He will be proved right in what he says, and he will win his case in court.” [fn]
Rom 3:5 “But,” some say, “our sins serve a good pur
pose, for people will see God's goodness when he declares us sinners to be innocent. Isn't it unfair, then, for God to punish us?” (That is actually the way some people talk.)Rom 3:6 Of course not! If God is not just, how is he qualified to judge the world?
Rom 3:7 “But,” some might still argue, “how can God judge and condemn me as a sinner if my dishonesty highlights his truthfulness and brings him more glory?”
Rom 3:8 If you follow that kind of thinking, however, you might as well say that the more we sin the better it is! Those who say such things deserve to be condemned, yet some slander me by saying this is what I preach!
Rom 3:9 Well then, are we Jews better than others? [fn] No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles, are under the power of sin.
Rom 3:10 As the Scriptures say, “No one is good– not even one.
Love in Christ,
Marty
You are completely not accepting the fact even Romans 3:10 is a misquote of the Old TestamentThe “No one is righteous” is takien out of context because it was referring to Non-believers:
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14:1-3The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 53:1-3There are my two witnesses proving how Paul misquotes the Old Testament.
He admitted he lies and he also admits he deceives
But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you with guile.
2 Corinthians 12:15-17Paul admits these things and you would prefer to believe him over your own Lord, Paul even says:
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Romans 3:3-5and now you will see that Paul was talking about his ownself being a Liar because like he quoted again from the Old Testament what he meant:
Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
Psalm 51:3-5Now this is the full vision of what Paul is about, accept it
Psalm 51
1Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.2Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
7Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
10Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
13Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
14Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
15O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
16For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
18Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
19Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.
No, no, no. I have already showed you that you are misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul said. It is difficult to understand for even someone who has the Holy Spirit.Love in Christ,
Marty
But God is not the author of confusion and yet you admit“It is difficult to understand for even someone who has the Holy Spirit.”
Hi BD:Yes, some things that the Apostle Paul writes are hard to understand, but when I do not understand something, I go to God in prayer and ask Him to give me understanding. I can assure that the Apostle Paul is not a false prophet, but this is what the Apostle Peters says about some of his epistles:
Quote 2Pe 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 2Pe 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
2Pe 3:17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
Love in Christ,
Marty
That was referring to the return of Christ and says nothing about the methods of Paul which Paul himself said was Crafty using Guile becoming all things to all people
Hi BD:You are misunderstanding what was being said there also.
Read the whole thing before you start formulating an opinion of what he said.
Love in Christ
Marty
Marty,How far will you go to cover up the blatant truth.
I am not even mad at Paul but you have to admit what he said(according to the scriptures) if someone says
Romans 7:17-19 (King James Version)
17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
This person just said that they do evil and they do not know how to perform good, now you can say I don't understand what that means but surely I know what they are saying.
Now I ask you if you said hey I trust you with my money and I said “I am a thief, no matter whether I want to be or not, I will steal your money , I will hate doing it but I am a thief” Would you then offer me all your money and trust me with it?
Quote (karmarie @ Dec. 29 2009,20:25) I think that the truth is Jesus, and that Paul had a place in what was and is happening today, I dont think there is any harm in if we do or dont read or understand the books of Paul, but we shouldnt judge either way and should love Paul, and its weather or not we understand the real message of Jesus, who was the only one sent down from heaven with a message to mankind, and is soon to return again, and I know that then those who trust in the Lord will be saved.
I find reading Paul useful in exposing those who wish to justify many things.Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 30 2009,12:01) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 29 2009,16:06) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 29 2009,15:12) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 29 2009,14:59) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 29 2009,14:35) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 29 2009,10:10) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 26 2009,08:55) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 26 2009,01:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,20:13) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 25 2009,14:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,12:03) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,10:54) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,10:42) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,09:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,09:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2009,07:53) Hi BD,
Jesus was sent there and spoke of many things including the kingdom.
He is filled with light and truth the light of the world and salvation is in him.
Paul was lit by Christ and given his message to speak and brought many to that light.
So Paul became the light and the way to the gentiles, right?
Hi BD,Why do you shoot down Paul's writings out of one side of your mouth, and then with the other “quote” them to further your beliefs?
Why is that?
Ed J
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Hebrews 4:11-13Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand;
Psalm 149:5Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 Timothy 2:14-16
Hi BD,Those verses are “great”, but do not answer the question I asked you?
Ed J
The answer is that even a liar speaks truth they just distort it
Hi BD:Yes, that is true, but Paul is not the liar.
Love in Christ,
Marty
For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
Romans 3:6-8I am sure you see that the bold letters above are not my own invention.
Hi BD:The problem is that you are misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul is saying. He is not saying that he is a liar, but he is saying that all both Jew and gentile have sinned, and that the righteousness of God is magnified through the fact all of humanity regardless of how good some may be have fallen short of His righteous standards.
But some were saying that he was preaching that since our unrighteousness magnifies His righeousness should we not sin all the more so that His righteousness will be magnified all the the more. Please read this in context.
Quote ESV Rom 3:1 Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? Rom 3:2 Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God.
Rom 3:3 What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God?
Rom 3:4 By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar, as it is written, “That you may be justified in your words, and prevail when you are judged.”
Rom 3:5 But if our unrighteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.)
Rom 3:6 By no means! For then how could God judge the world?
Rom 3:7 But if through my lie God's truth abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?
Rom 3:8 And why not do evil that good may come?–as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.
Rom 3:9 What then? Are we Jews [fn] any better off? [fn] No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,
Rom 3:10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;
Quote NLT Rom 3:1 Then what's the advantage of being a Jew? Is there any value in the Jewish ceremony of circumcision? Rom 3:2 Yes, being a Jew has many advantages. First of all, the Jews were entrusted with the whole revelation of God. [fn]
Rom 3:3 True, some of them were unfaithful; but just because they broke their promises, does that mean God will break his promises?
Rom 3:4 Of course not! Th
ough everyone else in the world is a liar, God is true. As the Scriptures say, “He will be proved right in what he says, and he will win his case in court.” [fn]Rom 3:5 “But,” some say, “our sins serve a good purpose, for people will see God's goodness when he declares us sinners to be innocent. Isn't it unfair, then, for God to punish us?” (That is actually the way some people talk.)
Rom 3:6 Of course not! If God is not just, how is he qualified to judge the world?
Rom 3:7 “But,” some might still argue, “how can God judge and condemn me as a sinner if my dishonesty highlights his truthfulness and brings him more glory?”
Rom 3:8 If you follow that kind of thinking, however, you might as well say that the more we sin the better it is! Those who say such things deserve to be condemned, yet some slander me by saying this is what I preach!
Rom 3:9 Well then, are we Jews better than others? [fn] No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles, are under the power of sin.
Rom 3:10 As the Scriptures say, “No one is good– not even one.
Love in Christ,
Marty
You are completely not accepting the fact even Romans 3:10 is a misquote of the Old TestamentThe “No one is righteous” is takien out of context because it was referring to Non-believers:
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14:1-3The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 53:1-3There are my two witnesses proving how Paul misquotes the Old Testament.
He admitted he lies and he also admits he deceives
But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you with guile.
2 Corinthians 12:15-17Paul admits these things and you would prefer to believe him over your own Lord, Paul even says:
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Romans 3:3-5and now you will see that Paul was talking about his ownself being a Liar because like he quoted again from the Old Testament what he meant:
Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
Psalm 51:3-5Now this is the full vision of what Paul is about, accept it
Psalm 51
1Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.2Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
7Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
10Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
13Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
14Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
15O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
16For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
18Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
19Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.
No, no, no. I have already showed you that you are misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul said. It is difficult to understand for even someone who has the Holy Spirit.Love in Christ,
Marty
But God is not the author of confusion and yet you admit“It is difficult to understand for even someone who has the Holy Spirit.”
Hi BD:Yes, some things that the Apostle Paul writes are hard to understand, but when I do not understand something, I go to God in prayer and ask Him to give me understanding. I can assure that the Apostle Paul is not a false prophet, but this is what the Apostle Peters says about some of his epistles:
Quote 2Pe 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 2Pe 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
2Pe 3:17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
Love in Christ,
Marty
That was referring to the return of Christ and says nothing about the methods of Paul which Paul himself said was Crafty using Guile becoming all things to all people
Hi BD:You are misunderstanding what was being said there also.
Read the whole thing before you start formulating an opinion of what he said.
Love in Christ
Marty
Marty,How far will you go to cover up the blatant truth.
I am not even mad at Paul but you have to admit what he said(according to the scriptures) if someone says
Romans 7:17-19 (King James Version)
17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
This person just said that they do evil and they do not know how to perform good, now you can say I don't understand what that means but surely I know what they are saying.
Now I ask you if you said hey I trust you with my money and I said “I am a thief, no matter whether I want to be or not, I will steal your money , I will hate doing it but I am a thief” Would you then offer me all your money and trust me with it?
Hi BD
:In these scriptures that you are quoting, the Apostle Paul is speaking of himself under the Law of Moses.
If you go to to the following verses in Romans 7 & 8, maybe you will understand, he goes on to say the following:
Quote Rom 7:24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
Rom 7:25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. [fn]
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you [fn] free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, [fn] he condemned sin in the flesh,
Rom 8:4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. Rom 8:7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.
Rom 8:8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
Rom 8:10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.
Rom 8:12 So then, brothers, [fn] we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Rom 8:14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons [fn] of God.Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Dec. 30 2009,13:56) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 30 2009,12:01) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 29 2009,16:06) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 29 2009,15:12) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 29 2009,14:59) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 29 2009,14:35) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 29 2009,10:10) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 26 2009,08:55) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 26 2009,01:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,20:13) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 25 2009,14:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,12:03) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,10:54) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,10:42) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,09:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,09:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2009,07:53) Hi BD,
Jesus was sent there and spoke of many things including the kingdom.
He is filled with light and truth the light of the world and salvation is in him.
Paul was lit by Christ and given his message to speak and brought many to that light.
So Paul became the light and the way to the gentiles, right?
Hi BD,Why do you shoot down Paul's writings out of one side of your mouth, and then with the other “quote” them to further your beliefs?
Why is that?
Ed J
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Hebrews 4:11-13Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand;
Psalm 149:5Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 Timothy 2:14-16
Hi BD,Those verses are “great”, but do not answer the question I asked you?
Ed J
The answer is that even a liar speaks truth they just distort it
Hi BD:Yes, that is true, but Paul is not the liar.
Love in Christ,
Marty
For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
Romans 3:6-8I am sure you see that the bold letters above are not my own invention.
Hi BD:The problem is that you are misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul is saying. He is not saying that he is a liar, but he is saying that all both Jew and gentile have sinned, and that the righteousness of God is magnified through the fact all of humanity regardless of how good some may be have fallen short of His righteous standards.
But some were saying that he was preaching that since our unrighteousness magnifies His righeousness should we not sin all the more so that His righteousness will be magnified all the the more. Please read this in context.
Quote ESV Rom 3:1 Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? Rom 3:2 Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God.
Rom 3:3 What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God?
Rom 3:4 By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar, as it is written, “That you may be justified in your words, and prevail when you are judged.”
Rom 3:5 But if our unrighteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.)
Rom 3:6 By no means! For then how could God judge the world?
Rom 3:7 But if through my lie God's truth abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?
Rom 3:8 And why not do evil that good may come?–as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.
Rom 3:9 What then? Are we Jews [fn] any better off? [fn] No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,
Rom 3:10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;
Quote NLT Rom 3:1 Then what's the advantage of being a Jew? Is there any value in the Jewish ceremony of circumcision? Rom 3:2 Yes, being a Jew has many advantages. First of all, the Jews were entrusted with the who
le revelation of God. [fn]Rom 3:3 True, some of them were unfaithful; but just because they broke their promises, does that mean God will break his promises?
Rom 3:4 Of course not! Though everyone else in the world is a liar, God is true. As the Scriptures say, “He will be proved right in what he says, and he will win his case in court.” [fn]
Rom 3:5 “But,” some say, “our sins serve a good purpose, for people will see God's goodness when he declares us sinners to be innocent. Isn't it unfair, then, for God to punish us?” (That is actually the way some people talk.)
Rom 3:6 Of course not! If God is not just, how is he qualified to judge the world?
Rom 3:7 “But,” some might still argue, “how can God judge and condemn me as a sinner if my dishonesty highlights his truthfulness and brings him more glory?”
Rom 3:8 If you follow that kind of thinking, however, you might as well say that the more we sin the better it is! Those who say such things deserve to be condemned, yet some slander me by saying this is what I preach!
Rom 3:9 Well then, are we Jews better than others? [fn] No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles, are under the power of sin.
Rom 3:10 As the Scriptures say, “No one is good– not even one.
Love in Christ,
Marty
You are completely not accepting the fact even Romans 3:10 is a misquote of the Old TestamentThe “No one is righteous” is takien out of context because it was referring to Non-believers:
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14:1-3The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 53:1-3There are my two witnesses proving how Paul misquotes the Old Testament.
He admitted he lies and he also admits he deceives
But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you with guile.
2 Corinthians 12:15-17Paul admits these things and you would prefer to believe him over your own Lord, Paul even says:
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Romans 3:3-5and now you will see that Paul was talking about his ownself being a Liar because like he quoted again from the Old Testament what he meant:
Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
Psalm 51:3-5Now this is the full vision of what Paul is about, accept it
Psalm 51
1Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.2Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
3For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.
4Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
6Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
7Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.
9Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.
10Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.
11Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
12Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
13Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.
14Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
15O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.
16For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
18Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.
19Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.
No, no, no. I have already showed you that you are misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul said. It is difficult to understand for even someone who has the Holy Spirit.Love in Christ,
Marty
But God is not the author of confusion and yet you admit“It is difficult to understand for even someone who has the Holy Spirit.”
Hi BD:Yes, some things that the Apostle Paul writes are hard to understand, but when I do not understand something, I go to God in prayer and ask Him to give me understanding. I can assure that the Apostle Paul is not a false prophet, but this is what the Apostle Peters says about some of his epistles:
Quote 2Pe 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 2Pe 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
2Pe 3:17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
Love in Christ,
Marty
That was referring to the return of Christ and says nothing about the methods of Paul which Paul himself said was Crafty using Guile becoming all things to all people
Hi BD:You are misunderstanding what was being said there also.
Read the whole thing before you start formulating an opinion of what he said.
Love in Christ
Marty
Marty,How far will you go to cover up the blatant truth.
I am not even mad at Paul but you have to admit what he said(according to the scriptures) if someone says
Romans 7:17-19 (King James Version)
17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
This person just said that they do evil and they do not know how to perform good, now you can say I don't understand what that means but surely I know what they are saying.
Now I ask you if you said hey I trust you with my money and I said “I am a thief, no mat
ter whether I want to be or not, I will steal your money , I will hate doing it but I am a thief” Would you then offer me all your money and trust me with it?
Hi BD:In these scriptures that you are quoting, the Apostle Paul is speaking of himself under the Law of Moses.
If you go to to the following verses in Romans 7 & 8, maybe you will understand, he goes on to say the following:
Quote Rom 7:24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
Rom 7:25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. [fn]
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you [fn] free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, [fn] he condemned sin in the flesh,
Rom 8:4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. Rom 8:7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.
Rom 8:8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.
Rom 8:10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.
Rom 8:12 So then, brothers, [fn] we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.
Rom 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Rom 8:14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons [fn] of God.Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,The problem with your defense is that Paul is speaking in the present not past tense he says:
19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
He is not saying “did” he is saying “do”
Why wouldn't you just state what you know to be true, that Paul did say the things he said and either you simply don't care what he said or you excuse what he says because your just not confident enough to disagree with him.
NOT BRINGING PEACE
Paul
Eph. 2:14 [Paul says:] For in Christ Jesus is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by abolishing in his flesh the Law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near.
Jesus
Matt. 10:34 [Jesus says:] “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
Luke 12:51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.
——————————————-
I CAME TO BRING DIVISIONS
Paul
1Cor. 1:10 [Paul says:] I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.
Rom. 16:17 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. 18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people.
Jesus
Luke 12:51 [Jesus says:] Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three.
————————————————-
ORDER AND DISORDER
God
Gen. 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
Isa. 24:1 See, the LORD is going to lay waste the earth and devastate it; he will ruin its face and scatter its inhabitants–
Isa. 34:11 The desert owl and screech owl will possess it; the great owl and the raven will nest there. God will stretch out over Edom the measuring line of chaos and the plumb line of desolation.
Isa. 45:7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
Paul
1Cor. 14:33 [Paul says:] For God is not a God of disorder but of peace…
JESUS: BE AS CHILDREN TO ENTER HEAVEN; PAUL: NEVER BE AS CHILDREN
Paul
1Cor. 13:11 [Paul says:] When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.
Jesus
Matt. 18:3 And [Jesus] said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
DO NOT MULTIPLY YOUR WORDS IN PRAYING
Eph. 6:18 [Paul says:] And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.
1Ths. 3:10 Night and day we pray most earnestly that we may see you again and supply what is lacking in your faith. 5:17 pray continually;
Matt. 6:7 [Jesus says:] And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Mark 12:40 They devour widows' houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. Such men will be punished most severely.”
Eccl. 5:2 Do not be quick with your mouth, do not be hasty in your heart to utter anything before God. God is in heaven and you are on earth, so let your words be few.
And to top it off isn't the false prophet the one that was prophesied to be stuck in the head but not die?
Would Jesus really strike someone BLIND but Paul was struck blind injury to the head
WAKE UP!!! The deception has already occured.
JESUS EATS WITH SINNERS; BUT PAUL SAYS YOU MUST NOT
Paul
1Cor. 5:11 [Paul says:] But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
Jesus
Luke 5:30 But the Pharisees and the teachers of the Law who belonged to t
heir sect complained to his disciples, “Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and `sinners'?” 31 Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”PAUL: WIDOWS ONLY TO GET AID IF OLDER THAN 60 AND TOTALLY PERFECT
Wrong way
1Tim. 5:3 [Paul says:] Give proper recognition to those widows who are really in need. 6 But the widow who lives for pleasure is dead even while she lives. 9 No widow may be put on the list of widows unless she is over sixty, has been faithful to her husband, 10 and is well known for her good deeds, such as bringing up children, showing hospitality, washing the feet of the saints, helping those in trouble and devoting herself to all kinds of good deeds. 11 As for younger widows, do not put them on such a list. For when their sensual desires overcome their dedication to Christ, they want to marry. 12 Thus they bring judgment on themselves, because they have broken their first pledge. 15 Some have in fact already turned away to follow Satan.
2Ths. 3:10 [Paul says:] For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “”If a man will not work, he shall not eat.''
Right way
Lev. 19:10 Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God.
Lev. 23:22 “`When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God.'”
Mark 9:41 [Jesus says:] I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you even a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.
Luke 7:47 [Jesus says:] Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven –for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little.” 48 Then Jesus said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.” Luke 8:1 After this, Jesus traveled [and the] Twelve were with him, 2 and also some women: Mary (called Magdalene); … 3 Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.
EVERYONE WHO SPEAKS AGAINST THE SON OF MAN WILL BE FORGIVEN
Paul disagrees
Hebr. 10:29 [Paul says] How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Jesus insists
Luke 12:10 [Jesus says] And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, …
Matt. 12:32 [Jesus says] Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, …
GOD MADE THE UNIVERSE, THEN MAN; PAUL: JESUS MADE EVERYTHING
GOD CALLS HIS ANGELS THE SONS OF GOD; PAUL SLANDERS ANGELS
Paul
Hebr. 1:5 [Paul says,] For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” ? Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son” ?
Hebr. 1:14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?
1 Corinthians 6:3 Do you not know that we shall judge the angels?
Jesus
Matthew 13:49 So shall it be in the full end of the age, the messengers [angels] shall come forth and separate the evil out of the midst of the righteous, 50 And shall cast them to the furnace of the fire, …
Rev. 13:1 And the dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea… 3 One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast. 5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words … to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven.
GOD DOES NOT OFFER HIS FIRSTBORN AS A SACRIFICE; PAUL SAYS HE DOES
Paul
Rom. 3:24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.
Hebr. 10:10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
God
Micah 6:7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I offer my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? 8 He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.
and finally
BEFORE YHWH ONLY EVERY KNEE WILL BOW; PAUL DISAGREES
Isa. 45:21 ['”For this is what the LORD says:] Was it not I, the LORD ? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me. 22 “Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. 23 By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.
Matt. 12:32 [Jesus says:] Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven,
Paul disagrees
Romans 14:9 [Paul says:] For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11 It is written: ” 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.' “
Philippians 2:9 [Paul says:] Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
A large part of the comparison came from http://home.sprintmail.com/~bigjim2c/id3.html an essay
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 30 2009,20:05) I CAME TO BRING DIVISIONS
Hi BD,That's why you are No longer alowed to post in “The believers Place”; you did it to yourself.
Do you regret your choice?Ed J
What value is your faith if it cannot stand up to challenge? Isn't that the whole point of a website like this?
Stuart
Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 30 2009,20:39) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 30 2009,20:05) I CAME TO BRING DIVISIONS
Hi BD,That's why you are No longer alowed to post in “The believers Place”; you did it to yourself.
Do you regret your choice?Ed J
ED,I was quoting Jesus
Quote Jesus Luke 12:51 [Jesus says:] Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three.
Do you disagree with him too? Would he not be able to post in the believers area either?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 30 2009,21:09) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 30 2009,20:39) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 30 2009,20:05) I CAME TO BRING DIVISIONS
Hi BD,That's why you are No longer alowed to post in “The believers Place”; you did it to yourself.
Do you regret your choice?Ed J
ED,I was quoting Jesus
Quote Jesus Luke 12:51 [Jesus says:] Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three.
Do you disagree with him too? Would he not be able to post in the believers area either?
Very good point BD.
TimQuote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 30 2009,21:09) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 30 2009,20:39) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 30 2009,20:05) I CAME TO BRING DIVISIONS
Hi BD,That's why you are No longer alowed to post in “The believers Place”; you did it to yourself.
Do you regret your choice?Ed J
ED,I was quoting Jesus
Hi BD,If you were, you were quoting an incorrectly translated version.
That's not what the AKJV Bible says.
I also prove the AKJV Bible to be anointed of God; along with proving His existence.Division is a product of 'satan', and the AKJV Bible uses satan's 'title' in that verse (2Thess.2:3, 2:4)
“I” is God's title, existing in everybody! (Rev.21:7)
But you will not realize this difference, until you overcome the world!
That will “most certainly” be your next dispute! (AKJV Mark 13:6)Ed (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:14)
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
