Saul 'paul' of tarsus

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
The light of Christ was in him as all who are of the Spirit know.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,09:31)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,09:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2009,07:53) Hi BD, Jesus was sent there and spoke of many things including the kingdom. He is filled with light and truth the light of the world and salvation is in him. Paul was lit by Christ and given his message to speak and brought many to that light. So Paul became the light and the way to the gentiles, right? Hi BD, Why do you shoot down Paul's writings out of one side of your mouth, and then with the other “quote” them to further your beliefs? Why is that? Ed J

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Hebrews 4:11-13

Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand;
Psalm 149:5

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2 Timothy 2:14-16

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2009,10:23)

Hi BD, The light of Christ was in him as all who are of the Spirit know.

Then why was he at odds with the other apostles? They had received the Holy Spirit at pentecost, shouldn't they have known the light of Christ was in him?

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,10:42)

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,09:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,09:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2009,07:53) Hi BD, Jesus was sent there and spoke of many things including the kingdom. He is filled with light and truth the light of the world and salvation is in him. Paul was lit by Christ and given his message to speak and brought many to that light. So Paul became the light and the way to the gentiles, right? Hi BD, Why do you shoot down Paul's writings out of one side of your mouth, and then with the other “quote” them to further your beliefs? Why is that? Ed J For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:11-13 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand; Psalm 149:5 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:14-16

Hi BD,

Those verses are “great”, but do not answer the question I asked you?

Ed J

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,10:54)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,10:42) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,09:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,09:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2009,07:53) Hi BD, Jesus was sent there and spoke of many things including the kingdom. He is filled with light and truth the light of the world and salvation is in him. Paul was lit by Christ and given his message to speak and brought many to that light. So Paul became the light and the way to the gentiles, right? Hi BD, Why do you shoot down Paul's writings out of one side of your mouth, and then with the other “quote” them to further your beliefs? Why is that? Ed J For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:11-13 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand; Psalm 149:5 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:14-16 Hi BD, Those verses are “great”, but do not answer the question I asked you? Ed J

The answer is that even a liar speaks truth they just distort it

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,12:03)

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,10:54) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,10:42) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,09:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,09:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2009,07:53) Hi BD, Jesus was sent there and spoke of many things including the kingdom. He is filled with light and truth the light of the world and salvation is in him. Paul was lit by Christ and given his message to speak and brought many to that light. So Paul became the light and the way to the gentiles, right? Hi BD, Why do you shoot down Paul's writings out of one side of your mouth, and then with the other “quote” them to further your beliefs? Why is that? Ed J For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:11-13 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand; Psalm 149:5 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:14-16 Hi BD, Those verses are “great”, but do not answer the question I asked you? Ed J The answer is that even a liar speaks truth they just distort it

Hi BD,

People that are well versed in the Scriptures will NOT fall for any lies!

Gal.1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
But though we, or an angel from heaven(hmmm), preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Ed J

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
Paul was anointed by God .
If you call him a liar where does that leave you?

[942767]

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 24 2009,16:05)

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Dec. 24 2009,11:05) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 23 2009,15:54) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 24 2009,10:51) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 24 2009,10:02) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 24 2009,09:50) Hi CLIO-PATRA: If the Apostle Paul is wrong regarding salvation being by “faith” so that it might be by grace, please tell me how then are we to be saved? Love in Christ, Marty If you are saved by faith so that it might be by grace then please explain to me how a sacrifice was needed at all? Hi BD: Faith is believing that the Word of God is true, and so, the faith to which I refer includes the fact that Jesus is God's  “Only Begotten Son and His Christ”, that he obeyed God without sin even unto death on the cross, and he was resurrected from the dead, and is now in his exalted position as head of the church at the right hand of God his and my Father. The sacrifice is needed to wash away your sins when you come to God with a repentant heart through what He has done for you through this sacrifice, and also, to wash away your sins when you fall short of perfect obedience after you become a born again Christian. This is what the Apostle Peter has to say: Quote 1Pe 1:18   Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers;   1Pe 1:19   But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:   1Pe 1:20   Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,   1Pe 1:21   Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.   1Pe 1:22 ¶ Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [see that ye] love one another with a pure heart fervently:   1Pe 1:23   Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.   1Pe 1:24   For all flesh [is] as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:   1Pe 1:25   But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.   Love in Christ, Marty But what of the faith and salvation through grace before Christ? Paul uses these as an example as well. Can you receive salvation by faith in God alone James had something to say on that: Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. . . But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? . . For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:18,20,26 Hi BD: The sacrifice that God has provided washes away the sins of all who were striving to obey God in the OT and of all who come to God through Jesus in the NT.  All will be resurrected as part of the body of Christ.  It also washes away he sins of the two that did not die a physically but were taken into the heavens by God, namely, Enoch and Elijah.   Quote Eph 1:4   According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:   Eph 1:5   Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,   Eph 1:6   To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.   Eph 1:7   In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;   Eph 1:8   Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;   Eph 1:9   Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:   Eph 1:10   That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:   Love in Christ, Marty

Hi BD:

God has provided the sacrifice so that he can have mercy on all who choose to come to Him through His provision.

Jesus did not want the sacrifice of the Pharisees which was hypocrisy. This is what the scripture that you have quoted states:

Quote

Mat 9:11 And when the Pharisees saw [it], they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? Mat 9:12 But when Jesus heard [that], he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. Mat 9:13 But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,12:03)

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,10:54) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,10:42) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,09:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,09:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2009,07:53) Hi BD, Jesus was sent there and spoke of many things including the kingdom. He is filled with light and truth the light of the world and salvation is in him. Paul was lit by Christ and given his message to speak and brought many to that light. So Paul became the light and the way to the gentiles, right? Hi BD, Why do you shoot down Paul's writings out of one side of your mouth, and then with the other “quote” them to further your beliefs? Why is that? Ed J For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:11-13 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand; Psalm 149:5 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:14-16 Hi BD, Those verses are “great”, but do not answer the question I asked you? Ed J The answer is that even a liar speaks truth they just distort it

Hi BD:

Yes, that is true, but Paul is not the liar.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 25 2009,14:30)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,12:03) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,10:54) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,10:42) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,09:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,09:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2009,07:53) Hi BD, Jesus was sent there and spoke of many things including the kingdom. He is filled with light and truth the light of the world and salvation is in him. Paul was lit by Christ and given his message to speak and brought many to that light. So Paul became the light and the way to the gentiles, right? Hi BD, Why do you shoot down Paul's writings out of one side of your mouth, and then with the other “quote” them to further your beliefs? Why is that? Ed J For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:11-13 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand; Psalm 149:5 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:14-16 Hi BD, Those verses are “great”, but do not answer the question I asked you? Ed J The answer is that even a liar speaks truth they just distort it Hi BD: Yes, that is true, but Paul is not the liar. Love in Christ, Marty

For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
Romans 3:6-8

I am sure you see that the bold letters above are not my own invention.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2009,13:44)

Hi BD, Paul was anointed by God . If you call him a liar where does that leave you?

For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
Romans 3:6-8

If he calls himself a liar where does that leave his claim and your claim of him?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,13:14)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,12:03) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,10:54) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,10:42) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,09:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,09:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2009,07:53) Hi BD, Jesus was sent there and spoke of many things including the kingdom. He is filled with light and truth the light of the world and salvation is in him. Paul was lit by Christ and given his message to speak and brought many to that light. So Paul became the light and the way to the gentiles, right? Hi BD, Why do you shoot down Paul's writings out of one side of your mouth, and then with the other “quote” them to further your beliefs? Why is that? Ed J For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:11-13 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand; Psalm 149:5 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:14-16 Hi BD, Those verses are “great”, but do not answer the question I asked you? Ed J The answer is that even a liar speaks truth they just distort it Hi BD, People that are well versed in the Scriptures will NOT fall for any lies! Gal.1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven(hmmm), preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. Ed J

Paul doesn't mind being accursed or calling Jesus a Curse

For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Romans 9:2-4

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Galatians 3:12-14

Now Paul after calling Jesus cursed then says:

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
1 Corinthians 12:2-4

Explain ED

[Proclaimer]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,07:50)

Paul seemed to raise Jesus to the level of God making himself the messiah of the gentiles, does that sound about right?

Paul clearly teaches that Jesus is not God, but lord and the head. I am not sure where you get that idea from? Maybe tradition, but not Paul.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,07:49)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2009,06:04) Hi, One of the reasons folk attack Paul is that they misunderstand his master. Jesus was sent to the jews and spent much of his ministry explaining their law to them. Some think that these explanations are part of his teaching to the church thus forming a semi jewish OT law church. But this is not so and to learn most of the doctrines of the new church you must listen to the apostles who were sent to the gentiles. So Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of Israel and not the whole world, right? So when he says I am the way, the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father except through me, wasn't he talking to the people he was sent to? That would make some of what Paul taught make sense and hence Paul stating it was “his” Gospel and that he has become the father in faith to those that followed him.

Jesus said “But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

“Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.”

“and you will testify also, because you have been with Me from the beginning.”

So it stands to reason that Jesus preached to the sheep and then told his disciples to preach in Judea and eventually to the end of the world. And you cannot get any further than New Zealand. Here we are. We believe the message.

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,20:13)

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 25 2009,14:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,12:03) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,10:54) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,10:42) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,09:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,09:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2009,07:53) Hi BD, Jesus was sent there and spoke of many things including the kingdom. He is filled with light and truth the light of the world and salvation is in him. Paul was lit by Christ and given his message to speak and brought many to that light. So Paul became the light and the way to the gentiles, right? Hi BD, Why do you shoot down Paul's writings out of one side of your mouth, and then with the other “quote” them to further your beliefs? Why is that? Ed J For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:11-13 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand; Psalm 149:5 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:14-16 Hi BD, Those verses are “great”, but do not answer the question I asked you? Ed J The answer is that even a liar speaks truth they just distort it Hi BD: Yes, that is true, but Paul is not the liar. Love in Christ, Marty For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? Romans 3:6-8 I am sure you see that the bold letters above are not my own invention.

Hi BD:

The problem is that you are misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul is saying. He is not saying that he is a liar, but he is saying that all both Jew and gentile have sinned, and that the righteousness of God is magnified through the fact all of humanity regardless of how good some may be have fallen short of His righteous standards.

But some were saying that he was preaching that since our unrighteousness magnifies His righeousness should we not sin all the more so that His righteousness will be magnified all the the more. Please read this in context.

Quote

ESV Rom 3:1 Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? Rom 3:2 Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God. Rom 3:3 What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God? Rom 3:4 By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar, as it is written, “That you may be justified in your words, and prevail when you are judged.” Rom 3:5 But if our unrighteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.) Rom 3:6 By no means! For then how could God judge the world? Rom 3:7 But if through my lie God's truth abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner? Rom 3:8 And why not do evil that good may come?–as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just. Rom 3:9 What then? Are we Jews [fn] any better off? [fn] No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, Rom 3:10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;

Quote

NLT Rom 3:1 Then what's the advantage of being a Jew? Is there any value in the Jewish ceremony of circumcision? Rom 3:2 Yes, being a Jew has many advantages. First of all, the Jews were entrusted with the whole revelation of God. [fn] Rom 3:3 True, some of them were unfaithful; but just because they broke their promises, does that mean God will break his promises? Rom 3:4 Of course not! Though everyone else in the world is a liar, God is true. As the Scriptures say, “He will be proved right in what he says, and he will win his case in court.” [fn] Rom 3:5 “But,” some say, “our sins serve a good purpose, for people will see God's goodness when he declares us sinners to be innocent. Isn't it unfair, then, for God to punish us?” (That is actually the way some people talk.) Rom 3:6 Of course not! If God is not just, how is he qualified to judge the world? Rom 3:7 “But,” some might still argue, “how can God judge and condemn me as a sinner if my dishonesty highlights his truthfulness and brings him more glory?” Rom 3:8 If you follow that kind of thinking, however, you might as well say that the more we sin the better it is! Those who say such things deserve to be condemned, yet some slander me by saying this is what I preach! Rom 3:9 Well then, are we Jews better than others? [fn] No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles, are under the power of sin. Rom 3:10 As the Scriptures say, “No one is good– not even one.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,20:20)

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,13:14) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,12:03) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,10:54) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,10:42) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,09:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,09:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2009,07:53) Hi BD, Jesus was sent there and spoke of many things including the kingdom. He is filled with light and truth the light of the world and salvation is in him. Paul was lit by Christ and given his message to speak and brought many to that light. So Paul became the light and the way to the gentiles, right? Hi BD, Why do you shoot down Paul's writings out of one side of your mouth, and then with the other “quote” them to further your beliefs? Why is that? Ed J For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:11-13 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand; Psalm 149:5 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:14-16 Hi BD, Those verses are “great”, but do not answer the question I asked you? Ed J The answer is that even a liar speaks truth they just distort it Hi BD, People that are well versed in the Scriptures will NOT fall for any lies! Gal.1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven(hmmm), preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. Ed J Paul doesn't mind being accursed or calling Jesus a Curse For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Romans 9:2-4 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: Galatians 3:12-14 Now Paul after calling Jesus cursed then says: Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Corinthians 12:2-4 Explain ED

Hi BD:

Paul was saying by this, that if it were possible that he would be eternally separated from God and his fellow Israelites, who had not been saved, be saved through this, he would be eternally separated from God for their sake.

But this is just how much he was sorry that they were not being saved.

Of course, this is not possible because every man must believe and obey God for himself.  

Love in Christ,
Marty

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ Dec. 26 2009,01:02)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,20:13) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 25 2009,14:30) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,12:03) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,10:54) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,10:42) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2009,09:31) Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,09:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 25 2009,07:53) Hi BD, Jesus was sent there and spoke of many things including the kingdom. He is filled with light and truth the light of the world and salvation is in him. Paul was lit by Christ and given his message to speak and brought many to that light. So Paul became the light and the way to the gentiles, right? Hi BD, Why do you shoot down Paul's writings out of one side of your mouth, and then with the other “quote” them to further your beliefs? Why is that? Ed J For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Hebrews 4:11-13 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand; Psalm 149:5 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:14-16 Hi BD, Those verses are “great”, but do not answer the question I asked you? Ed J The answer is that even a liar speaks truth they just distort it Hi BD: Yes, that is true, but Paul is not the liar. Love in Christ, Marty For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? Romans 3:6-8 I am sure you see that the bold letters above are not my own invention. Hi BD: The problem is that you are misunderstanding what the Apostle Paul is saying.  He is not saying that he is a liar, but he is saying that all both Jew and gentile have sinned, and that the righteousness of God is magnified through the fact all of humanity regardless of how good some may be have fallen short of His righteous standards. But some were saying that he was preaching that since our unrighteousness magnifies His righeousness should we not sin all the more so that His righteousness will be magnified all the the more.  Please read this in context. Quote ESV Rom 3:1 Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision?   Rom 3:2 Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God.   Rom 3:3 What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God?   Rom 3:4 By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar, as it is written, “That you may be justified in your words, and prevail when you are judged.”   Rom 3:5 But if our unrighteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.)   Rom 3:6 By no means! For then how could God judge the world?   Rom 3:7 But if through my lie God's truth abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?   Rom 3:8 And why not do evil that good may come?–as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.   Rom 3:9 What then? Are we Jews [fn] any better off? [fn] No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,   Rom 3:10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;   Quote NLT Rom 3:1 Then what's the advantage of being a Jew? Is there any value in the Jewish ceremony of circumcision?   Rom 3:2 Yes, being a Jew has many advantages. First of all, the Jews were entrusted with the whole revelation of God. [fn]   Rom 3:3 True, some of them were unfaithful; but just because they broke their promises, does that mean God will break his promises?   Rom 3:4 Of course not! Though everyone else in the world is a liar, God is true. As the Scriptures say, “He will be proved right in what he says, and he will win his case in court.” [fn]   Rom 3:5 “But,” some say, “our sins serve a good purpose, for people will see God's goodness when he declares us sinners to be innocent. Isn't it unfair, then, for God to punish us?” (That is actually the way some people talk.)   Rom 3:6 Of course not! If God is not just, how is he qualified to judge the world?   Rom 3:7 “But,” some might still argue, “how can God judge and condemn me as a sinner if my dishonesty highlights his truthfulness and brings him more glory?”   Rom 3:8 If you follow that kind of thinking, however, you might as well say that the more we sin the better it is! Those who say such things deserve to be condemned, yet some slander me by saying this is what I preach!   Rom 3:9 Well then, are we Jews better than others? [fn] No, not at all, for we have already shown that all people, whether Jews or Gentiles, are under the power of sin.   Rom 3:10 As the Scriptures say, “No one is good– not even one.   Love in Christ, Marty

You are completely not accepting the fact even Romans 3:10 is a misquote of the Old Testament

The “No one is righteous” is takien out of context because it was referring to Non-believers:

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 14:1-3

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.
Psalm 53:1-3

There are my two witnesses proving how Paul misquotes the Old Testament.

He admitted he lies and he also admits he deceives

But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you with guile.
2 Corinthians 12:15-17

Paul admits these things and you would prefer to believe him over your own Lord, Paul even says:

God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Romans 3:3-5

and now you will see that Paul was talking about his ownself being a Liar because like he quoted again from the Old Testament what he meant:

Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.
Psalm 51:3-5

Now this is the full vision of what Paul is about, accept it

Psalm 51
1Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions.

2Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.

3For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.

4Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.

5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

6Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

7Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

8Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.

9Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.

10Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

11Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

12Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

13Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

14Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.

15O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.

16For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.

17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

18Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.

19Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.

[NickHassan]

Hi BD,
Why do you try to turn the OT against the NT when you despise both and hate the Spirit that wrote them?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 26 2009,09:24)

Hi BD, Why do you try to turn the OT against the NT when you despise both and hate the Spirit that wrote them?

What an evil accusation, Nick.

But not only do I forgive you I would like for you to show me, how I could possible be wrong studying the scriptures to give reproof and/or correction?

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Dec. 25 2009,20:20)

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: Galatians 3:12-14 Now Paul after calling Jesus cursed then says: Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the HolySpirit. 1 Corinthians 12:2-4 Explain ED

Hi BD,

I will gladly explain it for you; BD.
I’m glad you have learned to trust me as true “witness” of “YHVH”=63 (YÄ-hä-vā). (AKJV Joshua 22:34)

First, let me start by telling you people need the HolySpirit residing on the inside of them
to understand the Holy Scriptures(“The Bible”=63; Gen.1:1 through Rev.22:21).
Without the HolySpirit(GOD) residing on the inside, then this verse truly apples…

2Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood,
which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

The Bible’s message is to be born again, meaning HolySpirit(God) birthed on the inside of a person!

Christ truly took the ‘curse’ of mankind when he died on a cross(tree).
Yet, Jesus in his lifetime here on Earth did no sin; God therefore raised Jesus back to life. (Gal.1:1)
On the day of “Pentecost”=117(54 days after Jesus' death), “YHVH”=63 as the “Spirit [of] God”=117(God Spirit),
came to dwell on the inside of people, thus the first people on Earth were now “Born Again”!
This time frame can be mathematically stated as the following [63+54=117].
These newly “Born Again” people are now living members in the “Kingdom of God”.

This concept(of being Born Again) is explained in the following Bible verses…

John 14:4 And whither I(Jesus) go ye know, and the way(to “GOD The Father”=117) ye know.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words:
and my Father(HolySpirit) will love him, and “we” will come unto him, and make “our” abode with him(The Believer).
This is what happened on the day of Pentecost, Jesus and his Father(HolySpirit) indwelled the first “Born Again” believers called “Christians”.
These next verses help to explain this concept of Jesus returning for a second time with his father(HolySpirit) on the day of Pentecost…

This verse applies to Jesus Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many (with Jesus' crucifixion);
and unto them(now all Believers) that look for him(Jesus) shall he(Jesus) appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

And this verse applies to Jesus' Father HolySpirit Isaiah 64:5 Thou(HolySpirit) meetest him
that rejoiceth and worketh righteousness, those that remember thee in thy ways:
behold, thou art wroth; for we have sinned: in those is continuance, and we shall be saved.

“The Savior”=117 is “GOD The Father”=117; who is known in the Hebrew tongue as
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm, and there is NO OTHER! (Isaiah 43:11)

I hope this helps you(BD) to understand true “Bible Truth”=117.
The Apostle Paul was also a true “witness” of YHVH!

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

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