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Hi Gene:
In as much as the Holy Spirit of God dwells in born again believers, our body, if the Spirit of God dwells in us, is the Holy Temple of God, but if the devil dwells in the human body, it is not the temple of God, and so, I believe based on the later chapters of Ezekiel, that the Jews who do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah will rebuild the temple, and this is the temple to which 2 Thes 2 is referring. I believe that Antiochus Epiphanes symbolizes the Anti-christ who is to come.
Marty….. but PAUL SAID HE (the man of sin), does take his seat in the temple of GOD, NOT SOME “PAGAN” TEMPLE MADE BY THE HAND OF MAN, AND lets not forget the rest written there, it is not talking about many, but a single person, who takes his seat in that temple of GOD, and being deslayed as a God AND being worshiped as a God. Who is the only one you now know, who for the last 1900 years was being presented by a apostate christanity as a God and is being worshiped as a God., is it not JESUS HIMSELF that is ?
You must also realize that that “man of sin” was already being taught at the time of the apostles, but not yet exposed, in the church as a mysterious ‘iniquity” .
So to help us, We need to define what an “iniquity”, really is, it is something that is presented as right, that looks right to those presenting it, but it is not right, it is a masked sin that is what an iniquity is. The Gnostic’s were already preaching that Jesus was a God at the time of Paul and JOHN and they were constantly resisting those false (lying) teachings in the church. But when the apostle were removed then this “LIE” about Jesus took root, and at the concil of NECIA 325 AD became fully exposed and the main doctrine of the “apostate” (fallen away) church and has remaind to this very day.Think about it Marty.
Peace and love to you and yours………gene
Gene,
The “strong delusion” is a type and though the tenet that Jesus is God fits that type others do as well. For instance some teach Jesus did not die on the cross and many believe.
Marty….. Do any of these Kings you have mentioned actually “sit in the temple of GOD”? Remember it says that he takes his seat in the “TEMPLE OF GOD
Gene, what is the temple of God? (think)!
Hi Gene:
Marty….. Do any of these Kings you have mentioned actually “sit in the temple of GOD”? Remember it says that he takes his seat in the “TEMPLE OF GOD. My question to you would be who is the only one who sits in the temple of God right now, the only one i know of who now sits there is JESUS . THIS SCRIPTURE DOES NOT SUJEST THAT IT IS SOME OTHER TEMPLE, but the true temple of God, which is in heaven, not on this earth.
Gene, are you indicating that the Anti-Christ that is coming will sit in the temple of God in heaven?
Hi Mia:
Do you know the story of Antiochus Epiphanes?
Marty, Antiochus – I know he was a historical figure (too tired to Google atm!).
Marty…… JESUS IS THE “ONLY” HUMAN who has ever took his seat in the “true” temple of God and he is being worshiped as a God, an even above the true God in the “apostate” church. Most churches today hardly ever mention GOD THE FATHER IT IS ALL ABOUT JESUS. Paul was not talking about the world he was speaking about the church, as the one falling away from the love of the truth, and he also said that it was a mystery of iniquity and spoke of it taking root in the church, not out side in the world, the church has been corrupted by this (LIE) FOR THE PAST 1900 YEARS. Even when JOHN spoke of the ANTICHRISTS it had to do within the church. Remember what Jesus said ” many would come in my name saying “i am” and decieve many. So they would come preaching JESUS CHRIST but be decieving many. That deception is about Jesus himself, not some world ruler to arise in the future.
Think about it Marty.
Peace and love to you and yours……….gene
Kerwin…..Yes the strong delusion is sent by GOD to those who do not love the truth, and that truth is about JESUS himself, as Paul went on to describe. The apostate church is full of antichrists and their worshiping Jesus as a GOD, turns the “IMAGE” of Jesus into a “LIE” that is what is being spoken of there by Paul. This false “image” of JESUS turns him into a man of sin, it is not the true JESUS that is the man of sin, but the FALSE “IMAGE” generated by the “LIE” that does.
Kerwin, dig into more of THE GREEK TEXT to help us better understand it is about JESUS HIMSELF.
peace and love to you and yours ……….gene
Mila…… You have it right, it is about the “true temple of God,” not some pagan world temple.
peace and love to you and yours………gene
Nick…..Here is a little research project for you, WHY does GOD SAY, HE WILL FORGIVE OUR “SINS” (AND) OR “INIQUITES”.
A little help for you Nick, because iniquity is a “TYPE” OF SIN. Now “O” WISE ONE, it’s your job is to go and figure out what “TYPE” OF SIN IT IS.
peace and love to you and yours ………gene
Nick…..lets take this subject to another post i will start as “the difference between a SIN and an INIQUITY. OK, I don’t want you to through this whole thread of by your continual deversions. OK?
peace and love to you and yours ……….gene
Mila…… You have it right, it is about the “true temple of God,” not some pagan world temple.
peace and love to you and yours………gene
Gene, we’re getting close.
The man of sin would not be in the heavenly temple, (that’s impossible).
The temple (where it IS possible for the man of sin to be), is the body of believers. “Know ye not the body is the temple of God”, (1 Cor 6.19, 1 Cor 3.16-19)
it is not the temple of God, and so, I believe based on the later chapters of Ezekiel, that the Jews who do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah will rebuild the temple, and this is the temple to which 2 Thes 2 is referring.
Hi Marty,
Why would Paul call the Temple of God an earthly building when it was no longer so?
It has to be the body of believers.
Also, why do people assume it is one person at the end of time, when it could be multitudes of people who house sin?
Has anyone studied the Greek?
At http://biblehub.com/text/2_thessalonians/2-3.htm
1) Reference is made to the Apostasy first.
2) “Man” (the man of sin) is “anthrópos: man, human, mankind”.
444 ánthrōpos – man, also the generic term for “mankind”; the human race; people, including women and men (Mt 4:19, 12:12, etc.).
444 (anthrōpos) relates to both genders (male and female) as both are created in the image of God – each equally vested with individual personhood and destiny (cf. Gal 3:28). Accordingly, the Bible uses 444 (ánthrōpos) of a specific man, woman, or class (type, group) of people – i.e. mankind in general (inclusive of every man, woman and child; see also 1 Cor 11:7). (435 /anḗr specifically refers to a male and 1135 /gynḗ to a female.)
[444 /ánthrōpos (“man”) answers to the Hebrew term, ̓adam – and 435 (anḗr) answers to the Hebrew term ̓ish.
Matthew 4:4 N-NMS
GRK: ζήσεται ὁ ἄνθρωπος ἀλλ’ ἐπὶ
NAS: It is written, MAN SHALL NOT LIVE
KJV: and said, It is written, Man shall not
INT: will live the man but byMatthew 4:19 N-GMP
GRK: ὑμᾶς ἁλιεῖς ἀνθρώπων
NAS: you fishers of men.
KJV: you fishers of men.
INT: you fishers of menMatthew 5:13 N-GMP
GRK: ὑπὸ τῶν ἀνθρώπων
NAS: out and trampled under foot by men.
KJV: to be trodden under foot of men.
INT: by menMatthew 5:16 N-GMP
GRK: ἔμπροσθεν τῶν ἀνθρώπων ὅπως ἴδωσιν
NAS: before men in such a way
KJV: shine before men, that they may see
INT: before men so that they might seeCould be man/ humankind, the apostasy and sin.
Mila…..PAUL is not talking about the world but about the apostate church that has fallen away from the truth. Even if you believe the temple of GOD IS IN THE FLESH OF MAN AS SCRIPTURE DOES SAY THAT, that does not change PAULS point, that this “man” of sin takes his seat in those temples even if it is mankind in the church. It still is speaking of JESUS WHO IN THE “APOSTATE” CHURCH, the FLESH BODIES MEMBERS, HAS TAKEN HIS SEAT and there being desplayed as a GOD, WHICH turns the “IMAGE” OF HIM from being a man, to a God, and he is worshiped in those temples of men as a GOD. This false teaching turns the “IMAGE” OF JESUS, INTO A MAN OF SIN. A false image of him that he will abolish by his own mouth at his return. So you could be right the temple could be in the bodies of man, but those men being spoken of there are the FALLEN CHURCH, THE APOSTATE CHURCH, THAT IS WHO PAUL WAS SPEAKING TO AND ABOUT. IMO
peace and love to you and yours ………gene
To all,
Paul is speaking of a doctrine based on Daniel 11:37 and therefore familiar to his hearers. I am not sure of the teaching since the snippet in 2 Thessalonians is too small. I also need more evidence besides that.
The great falling away has probably already happened and both the Catholicism and Islam are two of the doctrines that evolved from that event. The Protestant movement is an iteration of that evolution as is the idea that Jesus is an angel and even Mormonism. It may only be another instance of the type but I cannot see how there can be one any larger.
Kerwin……it was not a snippet,if you take the conditionthe church was falling into during the time of PAUL AND JOHN it was a major concern of the apostles, that the church was falling into a state of IDOLATRY, remember what the apostle JOHN ended one of his letters with? “LITTLE CHILDERN KEEP YOURSELF FROM IDOLS”. I beleve he knew that idolatry itself was beginning to infecting the church. If we tie in what he said as well as Paul in 2Ths 2 it fits in the over all problem that was beginning to infect the church itself.
What i would like you to explore, is how some of the Greek wording, can aline with a conclusion OF A LIE, ABOUT JESUS BEING PORTRAYED AS A GOD in the church. For instance the word “destory” as composed to the word abolish which are synonymous, but to me if the text is dealing with a “lie” then the wording should be rendered as abolish, another words that JESUS at his comming will “abolish” the LIE about him.
Maybe this is a little to deep for your Greek understanding, not sure brother.peace and love to you and yours……….gene
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