Satanism exposed

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2009,17:08)

I too have had personal experiences with satanic possesion in others.

Just as the scriptures show Jesus and the Apostles casting out devils, I have cast them out and seen glorious instantaneous changes in the person.

What rot.

Stuart

July 1, 2009 at 7:18 pm#171473

Participant

Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ July 02 2009,03:40)

yes i believe deamons are real or Jesuswould have never cast out devils. i was in church and heard the preacher telling satan to leave her alone in Jesus name( a ladie that was in the church service) earlier in the service she looked sad and tormented. when the preacher was done she turned around and her countanancewas one of glory. deamons are real but we do as christians have power to make them leave.

Do you not understand the psychology of group religious experiences? I think to be ill informed about how humans react in these situations is to be open to accusations of being somewhat gullible.

Stuart

July 1, 2009 at 7:23 pm#171474

Participant

Quote (Cindy @ July 01 2009,15:15)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2009,17:14)

Quote (thethinker @ June 30 2009,19:01)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2009,06:57)

Quote (thethinker @ June 30 2009,13:57)

Irene said:

Quote

Irene,
Jesus said,

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NOW is the judgment of this world. NOW is the prince of this world cast out (John 12:32)

Satan is NOT alive and well today. Jesus said “NOW the prince of this world is cast out.”

thinker

Hi Thinker

Cast out but not bound!

Quote

NOW is the judgment on this world. NOW is the prince of this world cast out (John 12:32)

Jesus finished off the devil. Praise His name rather than listen to tradition.

thinker

Hi Jack

BTW, read Revelation 20, it doesnt say satan was cast down, it says that an Angel of the Lord came down from heaven.

Before this, satan was cast out of heaven when there was war in heaven and two thirds of the angels followed him.

That is what Jesus saw when he said he saw satan as lightning fall.

The first ressurection hasnt happened yet so satan hasnt been bound yet.

Irene

I do not have the wrong verse.

I clearly said that before Rev 20:1 satan was already cast out in chapter 12, but he wasnt bound until ch 20.

Thanks for acknowledging that as your “theory”.

July 1, 2009 at 7:26 pm#171475

Participant

Quote (Stu @ July 01 2009,15:16)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2009,17:08)

I too have had personal experiences with satanic possesion in others.

Just as the scriptures show Jesus and the Apostles casting out devils, I have cast them out and seen glorious instantaneous changes in the person.

What rot.

Stuart

Hi STU

Why would you degrade the experience of another?

Are you God that you can say that because someone experiences something and you havnt then it cant be true!

Your own arrogance is shining bright at the moment!

July 1, 2009 at 7:28 pm#171476

Participant

Quote (Stu @ July 01 2009,15:18)

Quote (Jesus name follower of Christ @ July 02 2009,03:40)

Do you not understand the psychology of group religious experiences? I think to be ill informed about how humans react in these situations is to be open to accusations of being somewhat gullible.

Stuart

Hi STU

There you go playing God again!

July 1, 2009 at 7:38 pm#171477

Participant

David

Quote

The Hitchens video is interesting. He touches on several things that seem to indicate that Jesus did exist, although he believes, as a deluded person. He points out that if it was all made up, they would have done a better job, such as just saying that Jesus was born in bethlehem, instead of having to go there. Or how it was “stupid” women, as he says who saw Jesus after the resurrection and if it was all made up, they would have had respectable men seeing him (Although of course, many men did see him.)

…but no one actually wrote about seeing him…

I though his point was that if you were going to completely make up a story about a man-god it would not need to read as something so forced: the gospels are try-hard accounts that bend the truth in order, presumably, to make prophecy come true. If there was no Jesus at all then there would not be one historical character whom they were desperate to frame in the role of messiah.

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Of course, this person has many things just wrong. He says Jesus central theme is take no thought for the morrow. “No care for your children..that you should abandon your family…just follow me.” Jesus did not say any of these things.
It's a great argument but a false one. Jesus did say to follow him. He did say to put him first and pick up your torture stake and follow him. But he didn't say to show no care for your children. He should not speak of being on the moral high ground and then lie and misrepresent what Jesus said.

Luke 9:59-60, 14:26, 14:33, 18:29 are pretty clear.

But you are right, you have to look elsewhere in the bible to see the violence recommended for children.

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This guy also seems to not be wise enough to understand that saying archaelogy does not support the Bible (in this case, of the exodus) is a stupid move. Over and over and over again, people have gotten egg on their faces by saying: See, that person never existed, this kingdom never existed, etc. And then, they are proven wrong.

Your generalisation is a dodge, isn’t it? He gave a specific example, saying that the alleged exodus has no foundation in evidence whatever. If you want to use archeology for biblical verification you must also accept when it shows biblical fallacy.

Stuart

July 1, 2009 at 7:41 pm#171478

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 02 2009,07:26)

Quote (Stu @ July 01 2009,15:16)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2009,17:08)

I too have had personal experiences with satanic possesion in others.

Just as the scriptures show Jesus and the Apostles casting out devils, I have cast them out and seen glorious instantaneous changes in the person.

What rot.

Stuart

Hi STU

Why would you degrade the experience of another?

Are you God that you can say that because someone experiences something and you havnt then it cant be true!

Your own arrogance is shining bright at the moment!

You would degrade the experience of a mentally unwell person claiming he is Jesus. I see no difference. Actually it is not usually mental illness that does it, but delusion is an easy state to achieve in other humans if you know what you are doing. Just watch Derren Brown for one example.

Stuart

July 1, 2009 at 8:17 pm#171479

Participant

Quote (Stu @ July 01 2009,15:41)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 02 2009,07:26)

Quote (Stu @ July 01 2009,15:16)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2009,17:08)

I too have had personal experiences with satanic possesion in others.

Just as the scriptures show Jesus and the Apostles casting out devils, I have cast them out and seen glorious instantaneous changes in the person.

What rot.

Stuart

Hi STU

Why would you degrade the experience of another?

Are you God that you can say that because someone experiences something and you havnt then it cant be true!

Your own arrogance is shining bright at the moment!

Stuart

Hi STU

Every one who doesnt agree with you is in a state of delusion!

Can you see your own arrogance here?

July 1, 2009 at 8:34 pm#171480

Participant

Quote (Jodi Lee @ July 01 2009,08:52)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 01 2009,07:50)

Jodi,
You have obviously missed the message which has been that those in Christ have NOTHING to FEAR with the evil powers that are in the world whether there are familiar spirits that are aware of us or not. The power is in the blood of Christ NOT in the power of darkness.

BTW, if there are spirits around me, they have no part of me because God keeps me safe. Don’t miss that message either. I have NO association with them.

I can't speak for you, but greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world.

You said, ” It is good to be aware of the schemes of satan.”

Then you posted a video telling us that demons are assigned to everyone who accepts Christ as their savior, and they follow them around constantly to get them to try and fall. That does not sound like people have been given liberty, but have been given a whole new set of chains.

If God were working to make sure you stay safe then why would He allow demons to be around you all the time with the main goal of trying to get you off your walk with God?

Galatians 5:13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another! 16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

We have been called to liberty but we need to make sure that we do not use it as an opportunity to serve the flesh. What is in the world is SIN, of which scripture directly tells us comes from man serving his FLESH, not serving invisible beings. Sin is said to be produced from man's own imagination, for the carnal mind is at enmity against God.

Once again could you please show your scriptural support that says once you accept Jesus your assigned demons to follow you around all the time for the rest of your life?

I would like to add to this post from earlier.

LU had said, “I can't speak for you, but greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world.”

Joh 16:33 These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

1Jo 2:16 For all that is in the world–the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life–is not of the Father but is of the world.

What did Jesus overcome? Was it invisible rebel spirits? NO. Jesus destroyed the power of death the power of the devil. SIN leads to death, sin is what holds the power of death. Sin comes from within our flesh. Jesus had to overcome all that is in the world which was the lust of the flesh.

SIN is IN the WORLD, not rebel spirits causing men to sin.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned– 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

SIN CAME INTO THE WORLD THROUGH THE OFFENSE OF A MAN, not through the deception of a rebel spirit.

Scripture tells us that sin comes from the heart and mind of man, from man’s OWN imagination. Jesus tells us that sin comes from inside the heart of man, there is nothing from outside that defiles him.

Jesus said,
Mt 18:7 Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes!

Paul said,
1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their own craftiness”

Men are not crafty, deceitful, and wicked because they follow the influence of rebel spirits. The scriptures are PLAIN and CLEAR, why not choose to believe what it says? The sin of man comes from HIS own mind, from within his own imagination.

Le 20:27 And a man or woman — when there is in them a familiar spirit, or who [are] wizards — are certainly put to death; with stones they stone them; their blood [is] on them.'

De 18:11 and a charmer, and one asking at a familiar spirit, and a wizard, and one seeking unto the dead.

1Sa 28:7 And Saul saith to his servants, `Seek for me a woman possessing a familiar spirit, and I go unto her, and inquire of her;' and his servants say unto him, `Lo, a woman possessing a familiar spirit in En-dor.'

1Sa 28:8 And Saul disguiseth himself and putteth on other garments, and goeth, he and two of the men with him, and they come in unto the woman by night, and he saith, `Divine, I pray thee, to me by the familiar spirit, and cause to come up to me him whom I say unto thee.'

2Ki 21:6 and he hath caused his son to pass through fire, and observed clouds, and used enchantment, and dealt with a familiar spirit and wizards; he hath multiplied to do the evil thing in the eyes of Jehovah — to provoke to anger.

1Ch 10:13 And Saul dieth because of his trespass that he trespassed against Jehovah, against the word of Jehovah that he kept not, and also for asking at a familiar spirit — to inquire, —

2Ch 33:6 nd he hath caused his sons to pass over through fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom, and observed clouds
and used enchantments and witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and a wizard; he hath multiplied to do the evil thing in the eyes of Jehovah, to provoke him to anger.

Isa 19:3 And emptied out hath been in its midst the spirit of Egypt. And its counsel I swallow up, And they have sought unto the idols, And unto the charmers, And unto those having familiar spirits, And unto the wizards.

Jer 14:14 And the Lord said to me, “The prophets prophesy lies in My name. I have not sent them, commanded them, nor spoken to them; they prophesy to you a false vision, divination, a worthless thing, and the deceit of their heart

Jer 23:14 Also I have seen a horrible thing in the prophets of Jerusalem: They commit adultery and walk in lies; They also strengthen the hands of evildoers, So that no one turns back from his wickedness. All of them are like Sodom to Me, And her inhabitants like Gomorrah.

Jer 23:25 “I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy lies in My name, saying, 'I have dreamed, I have dreamed!'

Jer 23:26 How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Indeed they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart,

Eze 13:9 My hand will be against the prophets who envision futility and who divine lies; they shall not be in the assembly of My people, nor be written in the record of the house of Israel, nor shall they enter into the land of Israel. Then you shall know that I am the Lord God.

Eze 22:28 Her prophets plastered them with untempered mortar, seeing false visions, and divining lies for them, saying, 'Thus says the Lord God,' when the Lord had not spoken.

Isa 29:4 And thou hast been low, From the earth thou speakest, And from the dust makest thy saying low, And thy voice hath been from the earth, As one having a familiar spirit, And from the dust thy saying whisperest,

A person who has a familiar spirit is a person being crafty with their OWN voice, spewing out lies they have concocted up through their own imaginations.

Ge 8:21 And the Lord smelled a soothing aroma. Then the Lord said in His heart, “I will never again curse the ground for man's sake, although the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.

Ro 9:8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.

Eph 2:3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

Galatians 5:16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
I Corinthians 1:19 For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.” 20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. 22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; 23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. 27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; 28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 that no flesh should glory in His presence. 30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God–and righteousness and sanctification and redemption– 31 that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the Lord.”

Where does the wisdom of this world come from? Rebel spirits who have a secret dark kingdom? Where is scriptural proof of such? Man has deceived himself, Christian tradition does not reflect the clarity of scripture. Where is the foolishness of the world shown to come from? The foolish wisdom of the world comes from man and his OWN imagination.

2 Corinthians 5:16 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

Jesus followed the wisdom of YHWH, he put off the old man, who was foolish and wicked due to his own imagination, and submitted himself to the ways of our Almighty Father.

2 Corinthians 1:12 For our boasting is this: the testimony of our conscience that we conducted ourselves in the world in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom but by the grace of God, and more abundantly toward you.

Notice the scripture does NOT say with wisdom of manipulating rebel spirits, merely fleshly wisdom.

Shall we just ignore the sound scriptures that are clear cut, when we read those that sound a bit strange, and let our imaginations determine what is meant?

Ephesians 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

Shall we let our own imagination determine what the prince of the power of the air means, or should we look to the scriptures to find understanding that will keep this scripture consistent with what we already know to be true?

Verse 3 does a pretty good job of telling us what verse 2 represents. Paul says that he and others walked according to the course of the world according to the prince of the power of the air. He THEN says that he and others use to conduct themselves in the lust of the flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath.
I think the confusion lies in part with Paul’s choice of ‘power of the air’. As I have pointed out before Paul has used elsewhere in scripture the word ‘air’ to represent emptiness or worthlessness. Who is the prince in the world that holds the power of emptiness and worthlessness. Who i
s the prince of foolishness?

Ps 73:22 I was so foolish and ignorant; I was like a beast before You.

Isa 32:6For the foolish person will speak foolishness, And his heart will work iniquity: To practice ungodliness, To utter error against the Lord, To keep the hungry unsatisfied, And he will cause the drink of the thirsty to fail.

Jer 4:22 “For My people are foolish, They have not known Me. They are silly children, And they have no understanding. They are wise to do evil, But to do good they have no knowledge.”

To do good takes the knowledge of God, otherwise we are ignorant and foolish like a beast. We are not ignorant and foolish because rebel spirits deceive us without our even knowing it.

Jer 5:4 Therefore I said, “Surely these are poor. They are foolish; For they do not know the way of the Lord, The judgment of their God.

Eze 13:3 Thus says the Lord God: “Woe to the foolish prophets, who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing!

Man is NOT following rebel spirits but THEIR OWN spirit, which is foolish and creates all matters of wickedness.

Ephesians 2:15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men– 16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.

2Pe 1:4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

1Jo 2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

1Jo 2:16 For all that is in the world–the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life–is not of the Father but is of the world.

What is OF the world? What brings SIN to the world? Invisible rebel spirits infecting our minds without our even knowing it? Oh FOOLISH doctrine FOOLISH men. Know the scriptures and believe in them! Corruption comes through lust, lust is part of our nature that we must overcome. Man’s hormones are what fuels his passions and desires, lust comes from within our own bodies. We must control them with the knowledge and wisdom of God’s Spirit. We must put to death the deeds of the flesh, not ignore rebel spirits and demons. How do you overcome something you’re not even aware of? How do you overcome the influence of rebel spirits when you don’t even know when or how they are influencing you.

I John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. 4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them. 6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

Jesus put to death the deeds of the flesh, he went his ENTIRE life not giving into his own will, his own fleshly lusts and desires. Jesus was proof of what God can do in man with His working Spirit. We walk in confidence in God’s Spirit having NO confidence in our flesh. The flesh tells us to serve those passions and desires in order to have life and fulfillment, but the TRUTH is in the Spirit of YHWH, it is He that brings life and fulfillment.

If we want to apply the above scripture to us today, the HE that is in the world, the THEY, that is in the world that we need to overcome, is those that speak from the traditions of Christianity, having a mindset not on the word of God but on the traditions of men. Those who speak of the air, with useless words.

The wisdom of men and woman is worthless. Kathi and Irene teach that invisible beings can put ideas of sin in our minds without our even knowing it. They believe that demons are assigned to us to try and lead us away from God, but God chooses to protect us from them. This is a useless doctrine IMO, but test yourself these spirits and see if what they say adds up to scripture.

Mt 18:7 Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes!

1 Corinthians 2:6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But as it is written: “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

The spirits that are in the world causing foolish and wicked behavior is the spirit of man. Man, in order to overcome his ways that are according to his nature, needs the Spirit of God working in him. Jesus is our proof of these things. What God accomplished in Jesus was worth enough to raise all men from the dead. FOR THE WORK YHWH DID IN JESUS HE CAN AND WILL ACCOMPLISH IN ALL MEN.

1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

The knowledge and belief of the promise of eternal life , which came to us through YHWH”S accomplishments in the man Jesus Christ, should be empowering our minds working to deny our weak flesh that draws us to serve it according to it’s passions and desires. If we live in Christ, we have put to death the deeds of our flesh, and we are no longer considered men in the flesh. We do not wrestle against flesh and blood because we know that it is by faith and not works that counts us as children of God. We do not wrestle against flesh and blood because we know that Jesus has paid for all our sins. We should not give opportunity to the flesh, however as long as we have a wretched body that is still under the elements of this world which is degeneration and death, we cannot be perfect, and God does not expect us to be. When we receive an immortal body we will no longer have weak flesh enslaving us to serv
e it.

If we do wrestle with something, it is with the spiritual hosts of wickedness. Leo Tolstoy said, “wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.” The ungodly who rule the world and have authority, do not know God or His ways.
They ridicule God, and they ridicule His believers.

Do we wrestle with invisible monsters who we are told can influence us without our even knowing it? Is our struggle with that which cannot be seen, heard or detected? Absurdity. Who has YHWH allowed to dominate in our present time? I wrestle with the Mainstream Christian world, and it’s doctrine of lies. They try and draw me away from the truth of God. I wrestle with secular progressives, who try and turn me away from God. I wrestle with evolutionists who teach my children in school that there is no God. The list could go on and on. Do these people follow the wisdom and manipulation of invisible rebel spirits? No, scripture directly tells us that they are following in their OWN imaginations.

July 1, 2009 at 8:41 pm#171481

NickHassan

Participant

Hi Jodi,
Was Tolstoy an apostle ……..or perhaps another philosopher?
Those of the world will not see what is of spirit.

July 1, 2009 at 8:41 pm#171482

Participant

Jodi

Instead of just posting all this stuff again which nobody here cares to read again, why dont you just give us one scripture that says “the devil”, “the wicked one” or “satan” or “the God of this world” is the flesh of man, or his carnal nature.

Just one scripture that says the carnal man or carnal nature of man is “diabolos” or “satan”. Can you do that?

July 1, 2009 at 8:44 pm#171483

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 02 2009,08:41)

Hi Jodi,
Was Tolstoy an apostle ……..or perhaps another philosopher?
Those of the world will not see what is of spirit.

Out of ALL I posted that is what you have to say?

ridiculous

July 1, 2009 at 9:22 pm#171484

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 02 2009,08:41)

Jodi

Just one scripture that says the carnal man or carnal nature of man is “diabolos” or “satan”. Can you do that?

Does wisdom from YHWH come from ONE scripture?

What ONE scripture WJ, gives you ALL to truth and understanding that you believe you need to know?

Mt 16:23 and he having turned, said to Peter, `Get thee behind me, adversary! thou art a stumbling-block to me, for thou dost not mind the things of God, but the things of men.'

WHY is Peter SATAN? He has IN HIS MIND the THINGS of MEN.

1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their own craftiness”

Ge 8:21 And the Lord smelled a soothing aroma. Then the Lord said in His heart, “I will never again curse the ground for man's sake, although the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done.

2 Corinthians 1:12 For our boasting is this: the testimony of our conscience that we conducted ourselves in the world in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom but by the grace of God, and more abundantly toward you.

The RULERS of this age that will come to an end but now work to keep our world in darkness are shown to be MEN,

1 Corinthians 2:6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But as it is written: “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

Eze 13:3 Thus says the Lord God: “Woe to the foolish prophets, who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing!

WJ, you said, “Instead of just posting all this stuff again which nobody here cares to read again,

TRUTH be told WJ, I have been asked to keep posting my posts by others on this forum because they find it to be good for others to read. You don't, and I could care less, so when you see my name just ignore my posts. Don't put yourself up like your the most high on this forum, come down to earth, and just speak for yourself, you have no authority to speak for everybody.

How foolish to ask someone to defend an aspect of their belief with one scripture. Scripture abounds to defend my belief, I would be a fool not to use them all.

As Paul Harvey says, “Good Day!” Jodi

July 2, 2009 at 5:38 am#171485

Participant

Quote (Jodi Lee @ July 01 2009,17:22)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 02 2009,08:41)

Jodi

Just one scripture that says the carnal man or carnal nature of man is “diabolos” or “satan”. Can you do that?

Does wisdom from YHWH come from ONE scripture?

What ONE scripture WJ, gives you ALL to truth and understanding that you believe you need to know?

Mt 16:23 and he having turned, said to Peter, `Get thee behind me, adversary! thou art a stumbling-block to me, for thou dost not mind the things of God, but the things of men.'

WHY is Peter SATAN? He has IN HIS MIND the THINGS of MEN.

1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their own craftiness”

The RULERS of this age that will come to an end but now work to keep our world in darkness are shown to be MEN,

Eze 13:3 Thus says the Lord God: “Woe to the foolish prophets, who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing!

WJ, you said, “Instead of just posting all this stuff again which nobody here cares to read again,

How foolish to ask someone to defend an aspect of their belief with one scripture. Scripture abounds to defend my belief, I would be a fool not to use them all.

As Paul Harvey says, “Good Day!” Jodi

Hi Jodi

Just as I thought. Not one scripture that that says the carnal man or carnal nature of man is “diabolos” or “satan”, yet you continue to put off your theory as being Biblical.

Surely for a doctrine that you say is found in scriptures proving the “carnal man or carnal nature of man” is “diabolos” or “satan”, there has to be some scriptural link to those words.

Ok, try this.. How about giving us a scripture that says “mans flesh” or the “works of the flesh” is “diabolos” or “satan”, can you give us just one?

Quote (Jodi Lee @ July 01 2009,17:22)

How foolish to ask someone to defend an aspect of their belief with one scripture. Scripture abounds to defend my belief, I would be a fool not to use them all.

As Paul Harvey says, “Good Day!” Jodi

I am not sure but it seems like you just called yourself a “fool”, for you have asked this same question of the Trinitarian, even though there are far more than one scripture that claims Jesus is God.

How can scriptures abound to defend your belief when you do not even have one that supports it, but just a bunch of patched together scriptures loaded with your inferences.

Men can misuse scriptures to say anything, for instance the scriptures say… “Judas went out and hanged himself” and they also say… “go do thou likewise”.

Blessings WJ

July 2, 2009 at 6:20 am#171486

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 02 2009,08:17)

Quote (Stu @ July 01 2009,15:41)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 02 2009,07:26)

Quote (Stu @ July 01 2009,15:16)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 01 2009,17:08)

I too have had personal experiences with satanic possesion in others.

Just as the scriptures show Jesus and the Apostles casting out devils, I have cast them out and seen glorious instantaneous changes in the person.

What rot.

Stuart

Hi STU

Why would you degrade the experience of another?

Are you God that you can say that because someone experiences something and you havnt then it cant be true!

Your own arrogance is shining bright at the moment!

Stuart

Hi STU

Every one who doesnt agree with you is in a state of delusion!

Can you see your own arrogance here?

An ad hominem would seem to be your best response.

Is it arrogance if I am right?

Stuart

July 2, 2009 at 3:15 pm#171487

KangarooJack

Participant

WorshippingJesus said:

Quote

The serpent being “ancient” does not mean that is when he was bound. It simply means that he is Old or goes back to the begining of the creation, or the garden.

WJ,
Did you note how precise the vision was that the apostle John received? Why the reference to satan as “ancient serpent?” And why was there no satancic activity throughout the entire old testament period. And why isn't it until Jesus appeared that we see all kinds of satanic activity?

[Interjection: If the expression “satan” was a metaphor for the carnal nature as Jodi says then why do we not see narratives in the old testament like those that are in the new? Did they not have a carnal nature in the old testament too?]

WJ said:

Quote

If he was bound then, then who was it that afflicted Job?

It was a human accuser who afflicted Job. The Hebrew word means “accuser.”

WJ said:

Quote

And there is no indication anywhere that the thousand years has taken place for then the Glory of the Lord will cover the earth as the waters cover the sea, and that hasnt happened yet.

There is no such promise anywhere in respect to the entire globe. The promise was restricted to Palestine. It should read thus,

Quote

And the glory of the Lord covered the LAND as the waters cover the sea.

There were many times in Israel's old covenant history when the glory of the Lord “covered the LAND.”

WJ said:

Quote

As far as John 12:31, 32, it simply says satan was cast out when Jesus was crucified which could be what Jesus was refering to when he says he saw satan as lightning fall!

John 12:32 says that both the judgment of the world and the casting out of satan was “NOW.” If this was the final judgment then the casting out of satan involved his being cast out to the lake of fire. For the final judgment is contemporaneous with no other judgment upon satan than his final judgment.

thinker

July 2, 2009 at 10:35 pm#171488

NickHassan

Participant

Hi JOdi,
Is the purpose of scripture the defence of your beliefs?

July 3, 2009 at 12:30 am#171489