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Quote (Stu @ Sep. 30 2009,20:53) Quote (theodorej @ Sep. 30 2009,20:25) Quote (Stu @ Sep. 25 2009,00:33) There's no such thing as sin at all, except that invented by the religious. We can all do far better without that concept. Why do some have to cast their minds slavishly into such anti-human nonsense?
Stuart
Greetings Stu……Sin is the transgression of the law…Transgression of law is self explanatory…The religous emphasis speaks to Gods law,which, if you examine it carefully you see that our civil laws are similar with the exception that man decided to add to and in some cases change…..As an example lets take Murder….Gods law forbids murder and specifies death as the consequence….Our law changed the terminology to Kill….and with that we warehouse thousands of persons who have murdered more than once in our prison system…..So we won't call it sin..Let us call it crime so as to eliminate any religous conotation…..FOOLISHNESS !!!
Just before you take all the credit for your religion, just remember that while Judeo-christianity has only existed for the last 5% of human history, ethics and legal codes have almost certainly been in existence for a much greater time than that.Don't think the ancient Jews were the first to think of these things.
Stuart
Greetings Stu….Sorry for the late response,as I was caught up in the mundane task of earning a living….Stu I don't think the ancient Jews were the authors of the rule of law they were one of the recipients….If Iam not mistaken I believe Humarabees code was one of the first drafts…The silyness that exists today when it comes to law enforcement will result in the loss of all our freedom someday….The rule of law is being amended to afford repeat offenders rights that they do not deserve…..We dare not call the transgression of law sin…as I stated before foolishness….Quote (Stu @ Oct. 20 2009,21:21) So there is no power over that? Doesn't sound like a very powerful god you have there. Stuart
Stu….It sounds to me that we are talking about a very patient God who regardless of what you believe is all powerfull and I would dare not mock him or challendge him…My emphasis is on I pertaining to me….you have a free will to do as you see fit…
Quote (theodorej @ Oct. 20 2009,06:39) Quote (Stu @ Sep. 30 2009,20:53) Quote (theodorej @ Sep. 30 2009,20:25) Quote (Stu @ Sep. 25 2009,00:33) There's no such thing as sin at all, except that invented by the religious. We can all do far better without that concept. Why do some have to cast their minds slavishly into such anti-human nonsense?
Stuart
Greetings Stu……Sin is the transgression of the law…Transgression of law is self explanatory…The religous emphasis speaks to Gods law,which, if you examine it carefully you see that our civil laws are similar with the exception that man decided to add to and in some cases change…..As an example lets take Murder….Gods law forbids murder and specifies death as the consequence….Our law changed the terminology to Kill….and with that we warehouse thousands of persons who have murdered more than once in our prison system…..So we won't call it sin..Let us call it crime so as to eliminate any religous conotation…..FOOLISHNESS !!!
Just before you take all the credit for your religion, just remember that while Judeo-christianity has only existed for the last 5% of human history, ethics and legal codes have almost certainly been in existence for a much greater time than that.Don't think the ancient Jews were the first to think of these things.
Stuart
Greetings Stu….Sorry for the late response,as I was caught up in the mundane task of earning a living….Stu I don't think the ancient Jews were the authors of the rule of law they were one of the recipients….If Iam not mistaken I believe Humarabees code was one of the first drafts…The silyness that exists today when it comes to law enforcement will result in the loss of all our freedom someday….The rule of law is being amended to afford repeat offenders rights that they do not deserve…..We dare not call the transgression of law sin…as I stated before foolishness….
The law existed in heaven and was first challenged and broken by Lucifer. (Ps 103:20, Eze 28:13-17 compare 1Jn 3:8)Some examples of pre-Sinai knowledge of the law (Ge 26:5, Ex 16:28-30)
Every sin committed is a violation of God's law. (Ro 4:15, 1Jn 3:4)
Some examples of pre-Sinai sin and knowledge of sin (Ge 4:7, Ge 18:20, Ge 39:9)
1. Do not have other gods (Ge 35:2-4)
2. Do not have idols (Ge 35:2-4)
3. Do not misuse the Lord's name (Ge 12:7,8 and Ge 21:33 indicate the reverence held for God's name)
4. Keep the 7th-day Sabbath holy (Ge 2:1-3, Ex 16:23-30,35)
5. Honor your parents (Ge 9:20-25)
6. Do not kill (Ge 4:5-11)
7. Do not commit adultery (Ge 39:7-9)
8. Do not steal (Ge 44:8,9)
9. Do not give false testimony (Ge 27:8-12)
10. Do not covet (Ge 13:8,9)
Law
[Heb. torah (to-raw')] – “a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch:–law” (Strong's Dictionary)
[Gr. nomos (nom'-os)] – “law” (Strong's Dictionary)
The term “law”, as used in the Bible, includes various meanings, based on the context:
A specific kind of law (e.g., Ten Commandments (aka the moral law), Civil Law, Ceremonial Law)
The Pentateuch (Writings of Moses – Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy)
The Old Testament Scriptures
Quote (theodorej @ Oct. 21 2009,01:39) Quote (Stu @ Sep. 30 2009,20:53) Quote (theodorej @ Sep. 30 2009,20:25) Quote (Stu @ Sep. 25 2009,00:33) There's no such thing as sin at all, except that invented by the religious. We can all do far better without that concept. Why do some have to cast their minds slavishly into such anti-human nonsense?
Stuart
Greetings Stu……Sin is the transgression of the law…Transgression of law is self explanatory…The religous emphasis speaks to Gods law,which, if you examine it carefully you see that our civil laws are similar with the exception that man decided to add to and in some cases change…..As an example lets take Murder….Gods law forbids murder and specifies death as the consequence….Our law changed the terminology to Kill….and with that we warehouse thousands of persons who have murdered more than once in our prison system…..So we won't call it sin..Let us call it crime so as to eliminate any religous conotation…..FOOLISHNESS !!!
Just before you take all the credit for your religion, just remember that while Judeo-christianity has only existed for the last 5% of human history, ethics and legal codes have almost certainly been in existence for a much greater time than that.Don't think the ancient Jews were the first to think of these things.
Stuart
Greetings Stu….Sorry for the late response,as I was caught up in the mundane task of earning a living….Stu I don't think the ancient Jews were the authors of the rule of law they were one of the recipients….If Iam not mistaken I believe Humarabees code was one of the first drafts…The silyness that exists today when it comes to law enforcement will result in the loss of all our freedom someday….The rule of law is being amended to afford repeat offenders rights that they do not deserve…..We dare not call the transgression of law sin…as I stated before foolishness….
The Jews must have been the authors of their version, just as we are authors of the laws reinforced by judiciaries throughout the world today.From the Holy Wikipedia:
Hammurabi (ruled ca. 1796 BC – 1750 BC) decreed that he was chosen by the gods to deliver the law to his people.
Indeed that is an ancient source, and of course every ruler of a society without much modern science or modern skepticism is likely to to con his people by telling them that he is required by their god to administer these laws, in the usual way.
However I am thinking more in terms of all the codes of conduct that existed before there were written records: what humans would have described as ethical conduct in the 30,000 years before Judeo-christian monotheism, or an any stage back to the first people who could have been reasonably called humans, perhaps 190,000 years ago.
Obviously there is no written record of ethical thinking, but there almost certainly was a great deal of ethical talking.
As for repeat offending, there are a small number of people who are but their makeup dangerous to the rest of us and probably always will be, but it is an indictment on us that we do not have more knowledge about how to prevent recidivism constructively. Prisons are cheaper than finding cures.
Stuart
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 21 2009,02:34) Quote (theodorej @ Oct. 20 2009,06:39) Quote (Stu @ Sep. 30 2009,20:53) Quote (theodorej @ Sep. 30 2009,20:25) Quote (Stu @ Sep. 25 2009,00:33) There's no such thing as sin at all, except that invented by the religious. We can all do far better without that concept. Why do some have to cast their minds slavishly into such anti-human nonsense?
Stuart
Greetings Stu……Sin is the transgression of the law…Transgression of law is self explanatory…The religous emphasis speaks to Gods law,which, if you examine it carefully you see that our civil laws are similar with the exception that man decided to add to and in some cases change…..As an example lets take Murder….Gods law forbids murder and specifies death as the consequence….Our law changed the terminology to Kill….and with that we warehouse thousands of persons who have murdered more than once in our prison system…..So we won't call it sin..Let us call it crime so as to eliminate any religous conotation…..FOOLISHNESS !!!
Just before you take all the credit for your religion, just remember that while Judeo-christianity has only existed for the last 5% of human history, ethics and legal codes have almost certainly been in existence for a much greater time than that.Don't think the ancient Jews were the first to think of these things.
Stuart
Greetings Stu….Sorry for the late response,as I was caught up in the mundane task of earning a living….Stu I don't think the ancient Jews were the authors of the rule of law they were one of the recipients….If Iam not mistaken I believe Humarabees code was one of the first drafts…The silyness that exists today when it comes to law enforcement will result in the loss of all our freedom someday….The rule of law is being amended to afford repeat offenders rights that they do not deserve…..We dare not call the transgression of law sin…as I stated before foolishness….
The law existed in heaven and was first challenged and broken by Lucifer. (Ps 103:20, Eze 28:13-17 compare 1Jn 3:8)Some examples of pre-Sinai knowledge of the law (Ge 26:5, Ex 16:28-30)
Every sin committed is a violation of God's law. (Ro 4:15, 1Jn 3:4)
Some examples of pre-Sinai sin and knowledge of sin (Ge 4:7, Ge 18:20, Ge 39:9)
1. Do not have other gods (Ge 35:2-4)
2. Do not have idols (Ge 35:2-4)
3. Do not misuse the Lord's name (Ge 12:7,8 and Ge 21:33 indicate the reverence held for God's name)
4. Keep the 7th-day Sabbath holy (Ge 2:1-3, Ex 16:23-30,35)
5. Honor your parents (Ge 9:20-25)
6. Do not kill (Ge 4:5-11)
7. Do not commit adultery (Ge 39:7-9)
8. Do not steal (Ge 44:8,9)
9. Do not give false testimony (Ge 27:8-12)
10. Do not covet (Ge 13:8,9)
Law
[Heb. torah (to-raw')] – “a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch:–law” (Strong's Dictionary)
[Gr. nomos (nom'-os)] – “law” (Strong's Dictionary)
The term “law”, as used in the Bible, includes various meanings, based on the context:
A specific kind of law (e.g., Ten Commandments (aka the moral law), Civil Law, Ceremonial Law)
The Pentateuch (Writings of Moses – Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy)
The Old Testament Scriptures
You have not yet explained why you are not breaking number 9 with your smears on Einstein and Hawking (and others).Stuart
Quote (theodorej @ Oct. 21 2009,01:44) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 20 2009,21:21) So there is no power over that? Doesn't sound like a very powerful god you have there. Stuart
Stu….It sounds to me that we are talking about a very patient God who regardless of what you believe is all powerfull and I would dare not mock him or challendge him…My emphasis is on I pertaining to me….you have a free will to do as you see fit…
I think the evidence suggests very strongly that we are dealing with a god that is not there.Why do you not have the gumption to challenge this alleged god and 'his' brutality, about which he has boasted in the OT?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Oct. 21 2009,06:08) Quote (theodorej @ Oct. 21 2009,01:44) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 20 2009,21:21) So there is no power over that? Doesn't sound like a very powerful god you have there. Stuart
Stu….It sounds to me that we are talking about a very patient God who regardless of what you believe is all powerfull and I would dare not mock him or challendge him…My emphasis is on I pertaining to me….you have a free will to do as you see fit…
I think the evidence suggests very strongly that we are dealing with a god that is not there.Why do you not have the gumption to challenge this alleged god and 'his' brutality, about which he has boasted in the OT?
Stuart
Stui do not usually engage converstion with you, most of the time i don't understand your evolution theory, T8, sorts things out well enough for me.
your statement regarding the hebrew scriptures does and should be addressed, for it is the hush them up question is it not?
if one replies 'we do not question it' then the reply is, so you think it is alright that he kills women and children, condon's incest, rape ect. ect….with the added reply, this is the god you follow.
so where does that leave us, both waiting for a answer, you waiting for me to answer you and myself waiting for the answer also, in this instant gratitude world we live in, you would prefer a 'right off' answer, myself, i confess, this question you present has not faultered my faith, i am awaiting an answer myself, and to date, it has not been given.
so here we are both waiting and wanting an answer, so would you like to share your answer, while i wait for mine, we could share information as it comes to us
let me know.
Hello princess of the king
Quote i do not usually engage converstion with you, most of the time i don't understand your evolution theory, T8, sorts things out well enough for me.
It is not my theory, it is everyone’s, yours too.How has t8 ever ‘sorted’ anything out? He does not have the first clue about it. At least you are honest enough to admit that you don’t know, which is absolutely fair enough. Don’t think t8 has ever said anything true about natural history though. His arguments about biology have been utterly shredded but he is too proud to admit it. You did realise he does not have a leg to stand on, right?
Quote statement regarding the hebrew scriptures does and should be addressed, for it is the hush them up question is it not? if one replies 'we do not question it' then the reply is, so you think it is alright that he kills women and children, condon's incest, rape ect. ect….with the added reply, this is the god you follow.
Not sure what “condon’s” is, but yes I do think that. Usually people here justify it by asserting that such a god cannot be immoral so the killing (up to 32,000,000 people!) is somehow justified. That is no argument as far as I am concerned.
Quote so where does that leave us, both waiting for a answer, you waiting for me to answer you and myself waiting for the answer also, in this instant gratitude world we live in, you would prefer a 'right off' answer, myself, i confess, this question you present has not faultered my faith, i am awaiting an answer myself, and to date, it has not been given.
I don’t imagine you would be happy living under a dictator who was murdering and maiming his people, so long as you could convince yourself that eventually the despot would be able to justify his violence. I certainly wouldn’t. So why do christians make an exception when they bow down to a god that has so much human blood on its hands?Quote so here we are both waiting and wanting an answer, so would you like to share your answer, while i wait for mine, we could share information as it comes to us
let me know.Not sure exactly what the question is.
Are you suggesting that we should be forcing out of your god an answer to some question?As there is no such thing I think we might be in for rather a long wait, don’t you?
Anyway, refreshing to talk with you.
Stuart
Quote (thethinker @ June 21 2009,16:03) Quote (Lightenup @ June 20 2009,09:26) Here is a long message given from a former high priest satanist who is now a born again believer. It is good to be aware of the schemes of satan. It is worth watching through to the end. There is hope and deliverance in the blood of Jesus…praise God!
Who would take the word of anyone who calls himself a “high priest?” We have only one High priest which is Jesus Christ.thinker
Call[ed]Quote (Stu @ Oct. 20 2009,11:05) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 21 2009,02:34) Quote (theodorej @ Oct. 20 2009,06:39) Quote (Stu @ Sep. 30 2009,20:53) Quote (theodorej @ Sep. 30 2009,20:25) Quote (Stu @ Sep. 25 2009,00:33) There's no such thing as sin at all, except that invented by the religious. We can all do far better without that concept. Why do some have to cast their minds slavishly into such anti-human nonsense?
Stuart
Greetings Stu……Sin is the transgression of the law…Transgression of law is self explanatory…The religous emphasis speaks to Gods law,which, if you examine it carefully you see that our civil laws are similar with the exception that man decided to add to and in some cases change…..As an example lets take Murder….Gods law forbids murder and specifies death as the consequence….Our law changed the terminology to Kill….and with that we warehouse thousands of persons who have murdered more than once in our prison system…..So we won't call it sin..Let us call it crime so as to eliminate any religous conotation…..FOOLISHNESS !!!
Just before you take all the credit for your religion, just remember that while Judeo-christianity has only existed for the last 5% of human history, ethics and legal codes have almost certainly been in existence for a much greater time than that.Don't think the ancient Jews were the first to think of these things.
Stuart
Greetings Stu….Sorry for the late response,as I was caught up in the mundane task of earning a living….Stu I don't think the ancient Jews were the authors of the rule of law they were one of the recipients….If Iam not mistaken I believe Humarabees code was one of the first drafts…The silyness that exists today when it comes to law enforcement will result in the loss of all our freedom someday….The rule of law is being amended to afford repeat offenders rights that they do not deserve…..We dare not call the transgression of law sin…as I stated before foolishness….
The law existed in heaven and was first challenged and broken by Lucifer. (Ps 103:20, Eze 28:13-17 compare 1Jn 3:8)Some examples of pre-Sinai knowledge of the law (Ge 26:5, Ex 16:28-30)
Every sin committed is a violation of God's law. (Ro 4:15, 1Jn 3:4)
Some examples of pre-Sinai sin and knowledge of sin (Ge 4:7, Ge 18:20, Ge 39:9)
1. Do not have other gods (Ge 35:2-4)
2. Do not have idols (Ge 35:2-4)
3. Do not misuse the Lord's name (Ge 12:7,8 and Ge 21:33 indicate the reverence held for God's name)
4. Keep the 7th-day Sabbath holy (Ge 2:1-3, Ex 16:23-30,35)
5. Honor your parents (Ge 9:20-25)
6. Do not kill (Ge 4:5-11)
7. Do not commit adultery (Ge 39:7-9)
8. Do not steal (Ge 44:8,9)
9. Do not give false testimony (Ge 27:8-12)
10. Do not covet (Ge 13:8,9)
Law
[Heb. torah (to-raw')] – “a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch:–law” (Strong's Dictionary)
[Gr. nomos (nom'-os)] – “law” (Strong's Dictionary)
The term “law”, as used in the Bible, includes various meanings, based on the context:
A specific kind of law (e.g., Ten Commandments (aka the moral law), Civil Law, Ceremonial Law)
The Pentateuch (Writings of Moses – Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy)
The Old Testament Scriptures
You have not yet explained why you are not breaking number 9 with your smears on Einstein and Hawking (and others).Stuart
Was Einstein and Hawking christians?Quote (princess of the king @ Oct. 20 2009,17:11) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 21 2009,06:08) Quote (theodorej @ Oct. 21 2009,01:44) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 20 2009,21:21) So there is no power over that? Doesn't sound like a very powerful god you have there. Stuart
Stu….It sounds to me that we are talking about a very patient God who regardless of what you believe is all powerfull and I would dare not mock him or challendge him…My emphasis is on I pertaining to me….you have a free will to do as you see fit…
I think the evidence suggests very strongly that we are dealing with a god that is not there.Why do you not have the gumption to challenge this alleged god and 'his' brutality, about which he has boasted in the OT?
Stuart
Stui do not usually engage converstion with you, most of the time i don't understand your evolution theory, T8, sorts things out well enough for me.
your statement regarding the hebrew scriptures does and should be addressed, for it is the hush them up question is it not?
if one replies 'we do not question it' then the reply is, so you think it is alright that he kills women and children, condon's incest, rape ect. ect….with the added reply, this is the god you follow.
so where does that leave us, both waiting for a answer, you waiting for me to answer you and myself waiting for the answer also, in this instant gratitude world we live in, you would prefer a 'right off' answer, myself, i confess, this question you present has not faultered my faith, i am awaiting an answer myself, and to date, it has not been given.
so here we are both waiting and wanting an answer, so would you like to share your answer, while i wait for mine, we could share information as it comes to us
let me know.
Stu, is an anti-godder? I wasn't aware. Now it makes sense.Hey Stu, have a nice day.
Quote Just before you take all the credit for your religion, just remember that while Judeo-christianity has only existed for the last 5% of human history, ethics and legal codes have almost certainly been in existence for a much greater time than that. Don't think the ancient Jews were the first to think of these things.
Stuart
The law existed 6000 years ago with Abel and Cain in the bible. They made sin offerings, which means the was an established law.
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 21 2009,23:13) Quote (Stu @ Oct. 20 2009,11:05) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 21 2009,02:34) Quote (theodorej @ Oct. 20 2009,06:39) Quote (Stu @ Sep. 30 2009,20:53) Quote (theodorej @ Sep. 30 2009,20:25) Quote (Stu @ Sep. 25 2009,00:33) There's no such thing as sin at all, except that invented by the religious. We can all do far better without that concept. Why do some have to cast their minds slavishly into such anti-human nonsense?
Stuart
Greetings Stu……Sin is the transgression of the law…Transgression of law is self explanatory…The religous emphasis speaks to Gods law,which, if you examine it carefully you see that our civil laws are similar with the exception that man decided to add to and in some cases change…..As an example lets take Murder….Gods law forbids murder and specifies death as the consequence….Our law changed the terminology to Kill….and with that we warehouse thousands of persons who have murdered more than once in our prison system…..So we won't call it sin..Let us call it crime so as to eliminate any religous conotation…..FOOLISHNESS !!!
Just before you take all the credit for your religion, just remember that while Judeo-christianity has only existed for the last 5% of human history, ethics and legal codes have almost certainly been in existence for a much greater time than that.Don't think the ancient Jews were the first to think of these things.
Stuart
Greetings Stu….Sorry for the late response,as I was caught up in the mundane task of earning a living….Stu I don't think the ancient Jews were the authors of the rule of law they were one of the recipients….If Iam not mistaken I believe Humarabees code was one of the first drafts…The silyness that exists today when it comes to law enforcement will result in the loss of all our freedom someday….The rule of law is being amended to afford repeat offenders rights that they do not deserve…..We dare not call the transgression of law sin…as I stated before foolishness….
The law existed in heaven and was first challenged and broken by Lucifer. (Ps 103:20, Eze 28:13-17 compare 1Jn 3:8)Some examples of pre-Sinai knowledge of the law (Ge 26:5, Ex 16:28-30)
Every sin committed is a violation of God's law. (Ro 4:15, 1Jn 3:4)
Some examples of pre-Sinai sin and knowledge of sin (Ge 4:7, Ge 18:20, Ge 39:9)
1. Do not have other gods (Ge 35:2-4)
2. Do not have idols (Ge 35:2-4)
3. Do not misuse the Lord's name (Ge 12:7,8 and Ge 21:33 indicate the reverence held for God's name)
4. Keep the 7th-day Sabbath holy (Ge 2:1-3, Ex 16:23-30,35)
5. Honor your parents (Ge 9:20-25)
6. Do not kill (Ge 4:5-11)
7. Do not commit adultery (Ge 39:7-9)
8. Do not steal (Ge 44:8,9)
9. Do not give false testimony (Ge 27:8-12)
10. Do not covet (Ge 13:8,9)
Law
[Heb. torah (to-raw')] – “a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch:–law” (Strong's Dictionary)
[Gr. nomos (nom'-os)] – “law” (Strong's Dictionary)
The term “law”, as used in the Bible, includes various meanings, based on the context:
A specific kind of law (e.g., Ten Commandments (aka the moral law), Civil Law, Ceremonial Law)
The Pentateuch (Writings of Moses – Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy)
The Old Testament Scriptures
You have not yet explained why you are not breaking number 9 with your smears on Einstein and Hawking (and others).Stuart
Was Einstein and Hawking christians?
What difference would that make?Stuart
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 21 2009,23:33) Quote Just before you take all the credit for your religion, just remember that while Judeo-christianity has only existed for the last 5% of human history, ethics and legal codes have almost certainly been in existence for a much greater time than that. Don't think the ancient Jews were the first to think of these things.
Stuart
The law existed 6000 years ago with Abel and Cain in the bible. They made sin offerings, which means the was an established law.
Not sure what law you mean. It does not seem to be a response to what I posted.Humans have been around in archaic or modern form for at least 185,000 years. Given what we are capable of imagining, we would not have made it this far without systems of ethical thinking.
So my point is that what you call “the law” has been in existence for something like 175,000 years longer than the ancient Jewish laws that were codified in the OT.
The Judeo-christian god is a latecomer to the whole thing.
Stuart
*
stuart,
i do not have a theory on the subject, so i cannot lay claim, regarding T8, he does a fine job standing on his own, even if he only has one leg.pray tell stu, why would so many people claiming to love God, love a God, that has so much blood on his hands, I could have missed your theory on the matter, if you could, the short verison would be best suited.
Quote I don’t imagine you would be happy living under a dictator who was murdering and maiming his people, so long as you could convince yourself that eventually the despot would be able to justify his violence. I certainly wouldn’t. So why do christians make an exception when they bow down to a god that has so much human blood on its hands? hence my statement:
Quote if one replies 'we do not question it' then the reply is, so you think it is alright that he kills women and children, condone's(*) incest, rape ect. ect….with the added reply, this is the god you follow. back to square one.
Quote Not sure exactly what the question is.
Are you suggesting that we should be forcing out of your god an answer to some question?you know the role, i cannot force anything from him, i can only ask. you may be the answer, the vessel he uses to help me, could be possible, all things are with him.
Quote As there is no such thing I think we might be in for rather a long wait, don’t you? i am yet to be told of a dream that i had four years ago, still waiting, patience's are somewhat of a flaw of mine. time is measured for what reason.
refreshing to speak with you as well.
best to you and yours
Quote (Stu @ Oct. 22 2009,06:00) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 21 2009,23:33) Quote Just before you take all the credit for your religion, just remember that while Judeo-christianity has only existed for the last 5% of human history, ethics and legal codes have almost certainly been in existence for a much greater time than that. Don't think the ancient Jews were the first to think of these things.
Stuart
The law existed 6000 years ago with Abel and Cain in the bible. They made sin offerings, which means the was an established law.
Not sure what law you mean. It does not seem to be a response to what I posted.Humans have been around in archaic or modern form for at least 185,000 years. Given what we are capable of imagining, we would not have made it this far without systems of ethical thinking.
So my point is that what you call “the law” has been in existence for something like 175,000 years longer than the ancient Jewish laws that were codified in the OT.
The Judeo-christian god is a latecomer to the whole thing.
Stuart
stuart,Laws had to be established, they just did not fall out of the sky, there had to be a beginning of law, there had to be ground work layed.
where do you think this came from?
kol tuv
POTK
Good questions. I think laws are products of natural selection. Those who behave in a way likely to help them survive and reproduce are the ones that pass on their genes. Laws are just the formalisation of those advantageous behaviours. The laws we make reflect our instincts about how we can get on with one another peacefully and cooperatively, which is one of the key reasons for our success as a species. You may say that I assume an evolutionary source of such laws then would explain each human law as advantageous even though it would not be obviously so, and I agree there is a degree of circular logic about that way of arguing. Nevertheless for most laws it is possible to find common human characteristics across different societies (and different belief systems) which would suggest strongly that natural selection has worked on ethics. Ultimately we are products of natural selection, so everything we do must be put down to that process anyway. There are theories of the evolutionary advantage of god-belief too, which are still in their infancy but go some way to explaining your earlier point about lots of people loving a brutal god. Lots of people loved Stalin too! He killed even more people than your god allegedly has.
Stuart
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