Satan was NOT the God of this age

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January 20, 2012 at 10:56 pm#273504

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Fulloffaith @ Jan. 21 2012,15:34)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2012,05:06)

show me ??(that) It was the time when it was written.

Pierre, please start another thread for this discussion. By the way, you never showed me how either. I didn't want to ask because I am interested in who the “god” was. I do not wish to derail the thread any more than it has been…hope you understand.

PM me as to where that new thread end up…thanks.

Paul was not only talks about the age as such but the time that the gospel would have to be preach so until the return of Christ

Pierre

Fulloffaith

2Co 4:1 Therefore, since through God’s mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart.
2Co 4:2 Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God.
2Co 4:3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.
2Co 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
2Co 4:5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake.
2Co 4:6 For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.

January 20, 2012 at 11:02 pm#273507

KangarooJack

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2012,06:11)

Quote (Fulloffaith @ Jan. 21 2012,12:07)

Interesting discussion…what I have noticed is that poster's understandings for “this age,” and satan seem to be all over the place.

Now this might cause some division but can we approach this from the perspective and understanding of the original poster, KJ?

KJ, please give us your understanding for the following:

“this age”
satan

So, instead of outright disagreeing with him (Jack is a man's name), let us answer according to his own understanding. T8 brought out the understanding of “this world” to be religious in nature; others say that it refers to this Earth. Those are wildly varying definitions. Let us hear from KJ as to how he understand them and proceed from that point. Remember, the devil believes in Jesus too – just not the same way Christians believe in him…

Fulloffaith

first ;Satan is the god of this world ;this means that he as received powers for a time to do as he pleases but with restrictions ,

while all his (Satan) world developed, the God in heaven has also made his kingdom plans and so both are still working, even now,

one offers live in Christ ,the other offers dead in his world ,

so “this age” is still this time

Pierre

The term “this age” refers to the final days of the old covenant period. The first generation of Christians were still under the Mosaic system. They were being changed from the image of Moses to the image of Christ (3:4-18). Please read these verses carefully.

Satan NEVER had the power to blind men. The new testament UNANIMOUSLY declares that GOD did the blinding. Paul declares that GOD blinded men from Moses to his own day by the “same veil.”

The context:

“Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech

unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.

But their minds were blinded.

For until this day the SAME VEIL remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is being taken away in Christ….

God has blinded the minds of the unbelievers of this age,

lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of the God, should shine on them.”

Note that that which was passing away in Moses' time was still passing away in Paul time. But it was being taken away in Christ. Once it fully passed away the veil was lifted and God no longer blinds the minds of men.

Men were blinded by the act of Moses' putting the veil upon his face (Ex. 34). Satan had NOTHING to do with it. The blinding occurred by the act of Moses. God Himself blinded them by instrumentation of the “same veil” in Paul's day until the veil was taken away in Christ.

I repeat: God does NOT blind the minds of men today!

January 20, 2012 at 11:26 pm#273521

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Jan. 21 2012,16:02)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2012,06:11)

Quote (Fulloffaith @ Jan. 21 2012,12:07)

Interesting discussion…what I have noticed is that poster's understandings for “this age,” and satan seem to be all over the place.

Now this might cause some division but can we approach this from the perspective and understanding of the original poster, KJ?

KJ, please give us your understanding for the following:

“this age”
satan

Fulloffaith

first ;Satan is the god of this world ;this means that he as received powers for a time to do as he pleases but with restrictions ,

while all his (Satan) world developed, the God in heaven has also made his kingdom plans and so both are still working, even now,

one offers live in Christ ,the other offers dead in his world ,

so “this age” is still this time

Pierre

Satan NEVER had the power to blind men. The new testament UNANIMOUSLY declares that GOD did the blinding. Paul declares that GOD blinded men from Moses to his own day by the “same veil.”

The context:

“Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech

unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.

But their minds were blinded.

For until this day the SAME VEIL remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is being taken away in Christ….

God has blinded the minds of the unbelievers of this age,

lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of the God, should shine on them.”

I repeat: God does NOT blind the minds of men today!

JKOO

I have to disagree with you because the writer is the one that has gone to the gentiles ,and so as nothing to do with the law of Moses even recommended not to circumcised ,and Paul is also the one that forecast to the end or return of Christ,

and read the previous verses it is clear,that it is the time to the return of Christ that he talks about and of Satan who his the god of this world ,until God destroy him in the lake of fire

Quote

Satan NEVER had the power to blind men. The new testament UNANIMOUSLY declares that GOD did the blinding. Paul declares that GOD blinded men from Moses to his own day by the “same veil.”

Satan as blinded this world with Adam and Eve, and look what he does to those who love God (Job)

the blindness comes because Satan as rebel against God,and so many men have taken that position as well,and because that minded position the truth his veiled to them,that is what Paul is saying

Pierre

January 21, 2012 at 2:36 am#273570

Fulloffaith

Participant

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Jan. 21 2012,06:02)

Quote (Fulloffaith @ Jan. 21 2012,12:07)

Interesting discussion…what I have noticed is that poster's understandings for “this age,” and satan seem to be all over the place.

Now this might cause some division but can we approach this from the perspective and understanding of the original poster, KJ?

KJ, please give us your understanding for the following:

“this age”
satan

Satan NEVER had the power to blind men. The new testament UNANIMOUSLY declares that GOD did the blinding. Paul declares that GOD blinded men from Moses to his own day by the “same veil.”

The context:

“Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech

unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.

But their minds were blinded.

For until this day the SAME VEIL remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is being taken away in Christ….

God has blinded the minds of the unbelievers of this age,

lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of the God, should shine on them.”

I repeat: God does NOT blind the minds of men today!KJ

KJ,

I agree with you about the final days of the old covenant period. Thank you for your clarification.

I still need you to explain what and how satan is and what he or it does…you just keep saying satan but do not attach an understanding to it. Hope you understand.

FOF

January 21, 2012 at 2:46 am#273573

Fulloffaith

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2012,06:26)

JKOO

Pierre

Pierre,

And I guess I have to disagree with you about Paul only going to the Gentiles. His manner was to go to the Jewish synagogues to start churches:

…a few instances of what I mean:

Acts 17:1-2 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:
2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

…and then he leaves Thessalonica…

Act 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

…the Scriptures were the Old Testament Scriptures. The NT hadn't been written yet. Maybe some of the Gospels were available, but for the most part it was the OT Scriptures…

January 21, 2012 at 3:02 am#273577

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Jan. 16 2012,08:45)

Satan never was, is not now and never will be a “God” in any sense of the term.

2 Kings 1:6
This is what the LORD says: Is it because there is no God in Israel that you are sending men to consult Baal-Zebub, the god of Ekron?

That seems to be Jehovah Himself referring to Satan as the “god of Ekron”.

Jack, I haven't had time to look into your claims here, or the credibility of your translation of the Greek text, but even if Satan wasn't called “god” in 2 Cor 4:4, he surely was in 2 Kings 1:6, right?

Also, for the consideration of you all:
Luke 4
5 The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6 And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to.

Satan couldn't have offered to give Jesus what wasn't his to give, right? God will eventually take back what He gave to Satan, but for now, Satan is the god and prince of this world, whether 2 Cor 4:4 truly says so or not. IMO

mike

January 21, 2012 at 5:43 am#273609

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Fulloffaith @ Jan. 21 2012,19:46)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2012,06:26)

JKOO

Pierre

Pierre,

And I guess I have to disagree with you about Paul only going to the Gentiles. His manner was to go to the Jewish synagogues to start churches:

…a few instances of what I mean:

…and then he leaves Thessalonica…

…the Scriptures were the Old Testament Scriptures. The NT hadn't been written yet. Maybe some of the Gospels were available, but for the most part it was the OT Scriptures…

Fulloffaith

Ac 14:1 At Iconium Paul and Barnabas went as usual into the Jewish synagogue. There they spoke so effectively that a great number of Jews and Gentiles believed.
Ac 14:2 But the Jews who refused to believe stirred up the Gentiles and poisoned their minds against the brothers.
Ac 14:3 So Paul and Barnabas spent considerable time there, speaking boldly for the Lord, who confirmed the message of his grace by enabling them to do miraculous signs and wonders.
Ac 14:4 The people of the city were divided; some sided with the Jews, others with the apostles.
Ac 14:5 There was a plot afoot among the Gentiles and Jews, together with their leaders, to mistreat them and stone them.
Ac 14:6 But they found out about it and fled to the Lycaonian cities of Lystra and Derbe and to the surrounding country,
Ac 14:7 where they continued to preach the good news.

it seems to me that they were preaching Christ and not Jewish tradition,but rather took the opportunity to preach to those who suppose to be Gods people but few were ,

Ac 17:10 As soon as it was night, the brothers sent Paul and Silas away to Berea. On arriving there, they went to the Jewish synagogue.
Ac 17:11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
Ac 17:12 Many of the Jews believed, as did also a number of prominent Greek women and many Greek men.

again scriptures are saying that Paul was the apostle send to the gentiles ,but being a Jew and a scholar was a great help to all he talked to,Gods spirit was well used with Paul,

Quote

..the Scriptures were the Old Testament Scriptures. The NT hadn't been written yet. Maybe some of the Gospels were available, but for the most part it was the OT Scriptures…

you are right ,all things that are written in the old testament are of cause in the so called new testament

Quote

And I guess I have to disagree with you about Paul only going to the Gentiles.

now could you be so kind to show me were I have said this above words??

if you disagree with me at the least do it honestly,

Pierre

January 21, 2012 at 6:20 am#273616

Jodi Lee

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2012,13:02)

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Jan. 16 2012,08:45)

Satan never was, is not now and never will be a “God” in any sense of the term.

2 Kings 1:6
This is what the LORD says: Is it because there is no God in Israel that you are sending men to consult Baal-Zebub, the god of Ekron?

That seems to be Jehovah Himself referring to Satan as the “god of Ekron”.

mike

The god of Ekron is NOT REAL but a FALSE IMAGE.

2 Kings 1:1 Moab rebelled against Israel after the death of Ahab. 2 Now Ahaziah fell through the lattice of his upper room in Samaria, and was injured; so he sent messengers and said to them, “Go, inquire of Baal-Zebub, the god of Ekron, whether I shall recover from this injury.” 3 But the angel of the Lord said to Elijah the Tishbite, “Arise, go up to meet the messengers of the king of Samaria, and say to them, 'Is it because there is no God in Israel that you are going to inquire of Baal-Zebub, the god of Ekron?' 4 Now therefore, thus says the Lord: 'You shall not come down from the bed to which you have gone up, but you shall surely die.' ” So Elijah departed.

1 Samuel 31:9 And they cut off his head and stripped off his armor, and sent word throughout the land of the Philistines, to proclaim it in the temple of their idols and among the people.

Jeremiah 10:5 They are upright, like a palm tree, And they cannot speak; They must be carried, Because they cannot go by themselves. Do not be afraid of them, For they cannot do evil, Nor can they do any good.”…… 14 Everyone is dull-hearted, without knowledge; Every metalsmith is put to shame by an image; For his molded image is falsehood, And there is no breath in them.

Beelzebub, the god of Ekron, one of the gods of the Philistines was an image of a fly, because flies were known to spread disease. Though it is true that flies do spread disease the true force behind the cursing of disease strictly comes from YHWH.

Jeremiah 10: 6 Inasmuch as there is none like You, O Lord (You are great, and Your name is great in might), 7 Who would not fear You, O King of the nations? For this is Your rightful due. For among all the wise men of the nations, And in all their kingdoms, There is none like You. 8 But they are altogether dull-hearted and foolish; A wooden idol is a worthless doctrine. 9 Silver is beaten into plates; It is brought from Tarshish, And gold from Uphaz, The work of the craftsman And of the hands of the metalsmith; Blue and purple are their clothing; They are all the work of skillful men. 10 But the Lord is the true God; He is the living God and the everlasting King. At His wrath the earth will tremble, And the nations will not be able to endure His indignation.

Leviticus 26: 14 'But if you do not obey Me, and do not observe all these commandments, 15 and if you despise My statutes, or if your soul abhors My judgments, so that you do not perform all My commandments, but break My covenant, 16 I also will do this to you: I will even appoint terror over you, wasting disease and fever which shall consume the eyes and cause sorrow of heart. And you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.

Nations who did not know YHWH attributed cursing and disease to come from images of their imagination. Beelzebub was only a “satan” in the sense that he was an adversary to YHWH because he was a FALSE image believed to possess the powers that YHWH ALONE possesses.

Isaiah 45:6-7 “That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting that there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I the Lord do all these things.”

James 1: 13 Let no one say, being tempted — `From God I am tempted,' for God is not tempted of evil, and Himself doth tempt no one, 14 and each one is tempted, by his own desires being led away and enticed, 15 afterward the desire having conceived, doth give birth to sin, and the sin having been perfected, doth bring forth death.

Matthew 4: 1 Then Jesus was led up to the wilderness by the Spirit,to be tempted by the Devil, 2 and having fasted forty days and forty nights, afterwards he did hunger. 3 And the Tempter having come to him said, `If Son thou art of God — speak that these stones may become loaves.' 4 But he answering said, `It hath been written, Not upon bread alone doth man live, but upon every word coming forth from the mouth of God.' 5 Then doth the Devil take him to the [holy] city, and doth set him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and saith to him, `If Son thou art of God — cast thyself down, for it hath been written, that, His messengers He shall charge concerning thee, and on hands they shall bear thee up, that thou mayest not dash on a stone thy foot.' 7 Jesus said to him again, `It hath been written, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.' 8 Again doth the Devil take him to a very high mount, and doth shew to him all the kingdoms of the world and the glory of them, 9 and saith to him, `All these to thee I will give, if falling down thou mayest bow to me.' 10 Then saith Jesus to him, `Go — Adversary, for it hath been written, The Lord thy God thou shalt bow to, and Him only thou shalt serve.' 11 Then doth the Devil leave him, and lo, messengers came and were ministering to him.

Jesus had just received the great power of the Holy Spirit at the river Jordon, it was upon receiving the Spirit that came down like a dove, that Jesus began to preach and perform miracles. Before he began the teaching and the miracles however, he was first sent to the wilderness to be tested. The OT gives examples of mans great weakness when it comes to wealth and power, in that he is quick to use that power for his own gain and will. Jesus however did nothing of the sort, even when given the great power of the Holy Spirit. The story of the testing of Jesus in the wilderness is not a lesson of Jesus denying some red horned beast that floats around the earth and possesses and tempts minds, but it is a lesson of how the power of the Holy Spirit made Jesus overcome the power and desires of man’s weak flesh. Jesus had fasted for 40 days and 40 nights, he had all the power of the Spirit to turn one crumb into hundreds of loaves of bread, but he
was being tested and he did not use the powers of the Spirit for his own gain, though he hungered he denied the adversary that dwells in all of us, our weak corruptible flesh. He did not feed himself, he did not SERVE the hunger of his flesh, he served the WILL of YHWH, who was testing him in the flesh!!

IMO the popular belief of who “satan” is in the bible is nothing more than a false god Christians have created. YHWH ALONE has the power to bless and curse, however most Christians have given YHWH's powers over to their false image of who they believe the devil is!

January 21, 2012 at 6:35 am#273617

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Jodie Lee…………Good to see your back Sis, how are the Kids?, Hope you and your husband and kids are all fine sis, Good tho here from you again.

peace and love to you and your Jodi……………………………………………………………..gene

January 21, 2012 at 7:26 am#273622

Jodi Lee

Participant

Hi Gene!

Great to see you too!! The family and I are doing very well thanks! I recently changed jobs and am enjoying it very much. I went from teaching low functioning special needs kids in junior high to teaching preschool for Head Start.

Blessings to you and yours Gene! Hope all has been well for you too brother!

Love to you, Jodi

January 21, 2012 at 12:02 pm#273639

ftk

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2012,13:02)

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Jan. 16 2012,08:45)

Satan never was, is not now and never will be a “God” in any sense of the term.

2 Kings 1:6
This is what the LORD says: Is it because there is no God in Israel that you are sending men to consult Baal-Zebub, the god of Ekron?

That seems to be Jehovah Himself referring to Satan as the “god of Ekron”.

mike

Mike: First off anything a man believes in as a god is a god to that man!

As to satan being a god. Satan is a god to most religious people because they believe he is.

There is only ONE…. God…. per Jesus(the truth) so satan is not a true god…just called one and personally made a god by many that are maybe misunderstood.

But just for giggles….if satan were really a god with [evil] power he would kill everyone and rule all who would bow to him. The same people that say they would lay their life down for Jesus…declare a non-god 'liar' as “the God” of this world.

For those who believe there is only ONE God…..how quickly and easily you declare others as god that kill, steal, and destroy!

LET ME SAY HERE AND NOW…..THERE IS ONE GOD OF LOVE AS TAUGHT BY JESUS…HE IS MY LORD….I BELIEVE HIM!!

ALSO…I DO NOT BELIEVE LIES OR DECEPTION HAVE POWER TO FORCE THEMSELVES ON ANYONE! DARKNESS CAN BLOCK LIGHT BUT NOT OVERCOME LIGHT…..LOVE IS ALL THERE IS BUT LIES AND DECEPTION ALONG WITH TRICKERY AND CUNNING INTENT HAVE BLINDED THE MINDS OF THE MASSES FROM THE TRUTH!

Satan is not god of the earth!! The original scriptural reference made should be interpreted….satan is the god of “this world order” meaning the old testament religious world order, the Jews! before Jesus. IMO, TK

January 21, 2012 at 3:50 pm#273658

KangarooJack

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2012,13:02)

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Jan. 16 2012,08:45)

Satan never was, is not now and never will be a “God” in any sense of the term.

2 Kings 1:6
This is what the LORD says: Is it because there is no God in Israel that you are sending men to consult Baal-Zebub, the god of Ekron?

That seems to be Jehovah Himself referring to Satan as the “god of Ekron”.

mike

Mike,

I can invent a 'god' in my imagination and then make a carved image of it and then consult it for advice. YHWH said that the gods of the heathen are merely carved images (Psalm 135:15-18).The god of Ekron was also a carved image. See Jodi Lee's post on page 7.

Quote

YHWH's version: Heaven is my throne and the earth is my footstool.

Mike's version: Heaven WAS my throne before I gave it to satan and the earth WAS my throne before I gave it to satan.

You speak blasphemy! God gave the kingdom to His Son. It was NOT satan's to offer. Satan is a LIAR and the father of lies. The father of lies says “I will give you kingdoms” and gullible little you thinks that it was actually satan's to give. Hey Mike, if you root for the Ravens tomorrow I will give you Australia.

Jack

January 21, 2012 at 4:04 pm#273660

Fulloffaith

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2012,12:43)

it seems to me that they were preaching Christ and not Jewish tradition…

again scriptures are saying that Paul was the apostle send to the gentiles ,but being a Jew and a scholar was a great help to all he talked to,Gods spirit was well used with Paul,

now could you be so kind to show me were I have said this above words??

if you disagree with me at the least do it honestly, Pierre

Pierre,

I know I am new here and perhaps in the future you will discover that what I do, I do honestly. I may have erred; that is certainly possible. But I can guarantee that there is no malice intended.

I said what I said because it was you who said, “because the writer is the one that has gone to the gentiles“

And it seems you reiterated that same thought in your last post when you said, “again scriptures are saying that Paul was the apostle send to the gentiles“

I'm sorry if it seems as if I have misrepresented you but what am I to understand by your own quotes?

Also, I am not sure why you say, “it seems to me that they were preaching Christ and not Jewish tradition. It is obvious that Paul or any of the other apostles NEVER taught Jewish tradition. They always preached Christ and from the OT…your point seemed a little redundant, but I guess it doesn't hurt to re-emphasize things.

January 21, 2012 at 4:20 pm#273664

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Fulloffaith @ Jan. 22 2012,09:04)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2012,12:43)

it seems to me that they were preaching Christ and not Jewish tradition…

again scriptures are saying that Paul was the apostle send to the gentiles ,but being a Jew and a scholar was a great help to all he talked to,Gods spirit was well used with Paul,

now could you be so kind to show me were I have said this above words??

if you disagree with me at the least do it honestly, Pierre

Pierre,

I know I am new here and perhaps in the future you will discover that what I do, I do honestly. I may have erred; that is certainly possible. But I can guarantee that there is no malice intended.

I said what I said because it was you who said, “because the writer is the one that has gone to the gentiles“

And it seems you reiterated that same thought in your last post when you said, “again scriptures are saying that Paul was the apostle send to the gentiles“

I'm sorry if it seems as if I have misrepresented you but what am I to understand by your own quotes?

Fulloffaith

no arm done,now;the quotes I have given are in the scriptures
I mean about Paul being send to the gentiles right ? yes

I have used the word “SEEMS” because you have imply ;Pierre,

And I guess I have to disagree with you about Paul only going to the Gentiles. His manner was to go to the Jewish synagogues to start churches:

see Paul did not go to the synagogues to start churches,but to find what could be saved and uses for the Lord and his God,

your way of thinking was wrong,

but we may be just express our self not clear enough so let start again ,fresh ,in truth ,and I am sure we will agree to all things.

Pierre

January 21, 2012 at 4:29 pm#273666

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Jan. 21 2012,16:02)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 21 2012,06:11)

Quote (Fulloffaith @ Jan. 21 2012,12:07)

Interesting discussion…what I have noticed is that poster's understandings for “this age,” and satan seem to be all over the place.

Now this might cause some division but can we approach this from the perspective and understanding of the original poster, KJ?

KJ, please give us your understanding for the following:

“this age”
satan

Fulloffaith

first ;Satan is the god of this world ;this means that he as received powers for a time to do as he pleases but with restrictions ,

while all his (Satan) world developed, the God in heaven has also made his kingdom plans and so both are still working, even now,

one offers live in Christ ,the other offers dead in his world ,

so “this age” is still this time

Pierre

Satan NEVER had the power to blind men. The new testament UNANIMOUSLY declares that GOD did the blinding. Paul declares that GOD blinded men from Moses to his own day by the “same veil.”

The context:

“Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech

unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.

But their minds were blinded.

For until this day the SAME VEIL remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is being taken away in Christ….

God has blinded the minds of the unbelievers of this age,

lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of the God, should shine on them.”

I repeat: God does NOT blind the minds of men today!

JKOO

first what scriptures are you talking about??3:4-18).?

Quote

The first generation of Christians were still under the Mosaic system.

this is the biggies lie I have heard yet ,so PROVE IT.

I will give you the rest of my answer wen you prove your point ,

Pierre

January 21, 2012 at 5:01 pm#273679

KangarooJack

Participant

pierre wrote:

Quote

first what scriptures are you talking about??

3:4-18).?

Quote

The first generation of Christians were still under the Mosaic system.

this is the biggies lie I have heard yet ,so PROVE IT.

I will give you the rest of my answer wen you prove your point ,

Pierre

2 Corinthians 3:4-18. Paul said that they were being changed from the glory of Moses (old covenant) to the glory of Christ (new covenant). They were being transformed from ''glory to glory,” that is, from the lesser glory of Moses to the greater glory of Christ, from and old covenant people of God to a new covenant people of God.

You don't even know what a 'lie' is. You must know the truth before you can identify a lie.

January 21, 2012 at 5:16 pm#273684

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Jan. 22 2012,10:01)

pierre wrote:

Quote

first what scriptures are you talking about??

3:4-18).?

Quote

The first generation of Christians were still under the Mosaic system.

this is the biggies lie I have heard yet ,so PROVE IT.

I will give you the rest of my answer wen you prove your point ,

Pierre

You don't even know what a 'lie' is. You must know the truth before you can identify a lie.

JKOO

2Co 2:16 To the one we are the smell of death; to the other, the fragrance of life. And who is equal to such a task?
2Co 2:17 Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, like men sent from God.
2Co 3:1 Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, like some people, letters of recommendation to you or from you?
2Co 3:2 You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everybody.
2Co 3:3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
2Co 3:4 Such confidence as this is ours through Christ before God.
2Co 3:5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God.
2Co 3:6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

2Co 3:7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was,
2Co 3:8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?
2Co 3:9 If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness!
2Co 3:10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory.
2Co 3:11 And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
2Co 3:12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold.
2Co 3:13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away.
2Co 3:14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.
2Co 3:15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.
2Co 3:16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
2Co 3:18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

Quote

You don't even know what a 'lie' is. You must know the truth before you can identify a lie.

and in this you are right;SO CAN YOU POINT OUT WHAT YOU SAY ;NOW THAT WE CAN SEE THE WHOLE ARGUMENT THAT PAUL IS MAKING;

do you have any truth ??JKOO

Pierre

January 21, 2012 at 8:35 pm#273711

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 21 2012,16:20)

[
Jesus had just received the great power of the Holy Spirit at the river Jordon, it was upon receiving the Spirit that came down like a dove, that Jesus began to preach and perform miracles. Before he began the teaching and the miracles however, he was first sent to the wilderness to be tested. The OT gives examples of mans great weakness when it comes to wealth and power, in that he is quick to use that power for his own gain and will. Jesus however did nothing of the sort, even when given the great power of the Holy Spirit. The story of the testing of Jesus in the wilderness is not a lesson of Jesus denying some red horned beast that floats around the earth and possesses and tempts minds, but it is a lesson of how the power of the Holy Spirit made Jesus overcome the power and desires of man’s weak flesh. Jesus had fasted for 40 days and 40 nights, he had all the power of the Spirit to turn one crumb into hundreds of loaves of bread, but he was being tested and he did not use the powers of the Spirit for his own gain, though he hungered he denied the adversary that dwells in all of us, our weak corruptible flesh. He did not feed himself, he did not SERVE the hunger of his flesh, he served the WILL of YHWH, who was testing him in the flesh!!

To ALL …..>This is the absolute TRUTH, you need to all read this and think about it, There is no Devil “BEING” going around Jumping in and Out of People , It is simple an ADVERSARIAL SPIRIT (INTELLECT) that is in all od us and when that SPIRIT in you is working against or as a adversarial influence against GOD WORD and WILL, that is what causes SIN in a Person, Peter was truly a SATAN at the Time Jesus why rebuked HIM , just as any of us could Be and we must all MASTER it, if it is against the Truth of GOD JUST as JESUS Did in the WILDERNESS. He overcame HIMSELF his own WILL by the WORD of GOD, this is the same with Us also. IMO

peace and love to you all……………………………………..gene

January 21, 2012 at 8:41 pm#273712

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 22 2012,13:35)

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 21 2012,16:20)

peace and love to you all……………………………………..gene

gene

what did Jesus receive at the Jordan river

Pierre

January 21, 2012 at 9:43 pm#273731

Proclaimer

Participant

Quote (t8 @ Jan. 20 2012,21:33)

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Jan. 20 2012,02:52)

Stop acting childish! You previously said that this interpretation is a “trinitarian” error when Gene and Jodi Lee who are not trinitarians have been sayng all along that satan is no 'god' in any sense.

I am pretty sure you comment about me is also wrong KJ because I don't even know what you are talking about. If I did what you said, then I would probably understand what you said. Can you clarify?

KJ please clarify. What are you saying?

Also, how to reconcile that the world is wicked and that you say that YHWH is the God of that wicked world?

Is that not insulting to God?

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Satan was NOT the God of this age

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