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Thinker
Revelations 12: 12
So, rejoice, you heavens and all who live there!
But it will be terrible for the earth and the sea,
because the devil has come down to you!
He is filled with anger, because he knows he does not
have mush time.though everyone has their own opinions beliefs etc…
It Rev 12:12 shows that the devil, his time is running out
He is using what time he has left to destroy, deceive etc…
Though Jesus is coming soon
Revelatio 22:20
Jesus, the One who says these things are true, says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”which shows that his second coming is yet to happen
until the Biblical prophecies are fulfilled it is dangerous to think that the secon coming of Jesus Christ have already happened
Isaih 14 speaks of what is going to happen to Satan
In regards to the lake of Burning Sulphur
Revelation 20 verse 10 – 15
Revelation 21 verse 7 -8as for when Jesus will come again
Read Matthew 24 verse 31 – 56
Though entire chapter is good in regards to this
Bodhitharta said;
Quote There was no human accuser in Job if it were so the scriptures would not have said that Satan came along with the sons of God. Also a human could not have caused these catastrophies that Job had.
Neither could satan cannot cause the catastrophies Job had. God gave the power to a human accuser to afflict Job. The Hebrew “sawtawn” simply means “accuser.” Job's accuser was a personal enemy and he was a man. Satan was bound when he was cursed in the garden. Revelation 20 says that it was the “ancient serpent” that was bound.
thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 22 2009,12:58) Hi Jack You say that all things has been fulfilled in 70 AD and the Lord has already come again.
How do you explain the following scriptures which obviously have not happened yet…?
“But the day of the Lord will come like a thief“. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare. “Since everything will be destroyed in this way“, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. “That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat“. But in keeping with his promise “we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness“. 2 Peter 3:10-13
In the NT scriptures the “Day of the Lord” is always refering to Christ coming again.
WJ
Hy Keith,
The “day of the Lord” was the period of time from Christ's first and second advents. The old heaven and earth, that is, the Mosaic system was destroyed when Christ returned. We are in the new covenant age now, that is, the new heaven and earth.Did you know that C.H. Spurgeon was a preterist and taught that we are in the new heaven and earth?
Quote C.H. Spurgeon (1834–1892) in a message he once delivered (Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, Volume 37, Page 354), made the following statement about “heaven and earth” as used in the Scriptures: “Did you ever regret the absence of the burnt-offering, or the red heifer, of any one of the sacrifices and rites of the Jews? Did you ever pine for the feast of tabernacle, or the dedication? No, because, though these were like the old heavens and earth to the Jewish believers, they have passed away, and now we live under the new heavens and a new earth, so far as the dispensation of divine teaching is concerned. The substance is come, and the shadow has gone: and we do not remember it.”
http://christeternalchristianchurch.com/learningactivity36.htmWe are in the ETERNAL new covenant age bro!
Quote Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the ETERNAL covenant, make you complete in every good work to do His will, working in you what is well pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen, (Hebrews 13:20-21)
We are in the new heaven and earth which is chronologically AFTER satan is cast into the lake of fire. Therefore, satan does not operate in the new covenant age bro!Isaiah 65-66 says that sinning still occurs in the new heaven and earth. And Revelation 22:14-15 says that sinners are right outside the gates of the city and that they will not be allowed to enter into the city. Verse 17 says that the water of life is offered to whosoever will. The water of life flows in the street of the city (vs. 1). So the gospel is offered in the new heaven and earth.
thinker
Quote (942767 @ Oct. 22 2009,11:51) Hi thethinker: Posting the following scriptures for your consideration:
Quote 1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jo 3:10 ¶ In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
It seems to me that these scriptures are saying that someone is born again the works of the devil have been destroyed in that person because he was practicing sin and was therefore was a child of the devil, and now, being born again, he is obeying the Word of God, and is a child of God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Believers are born of Abraham. Get my point?thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 23 2009,04:14) Bodhitharta said; Quote There was no human accuser in Job if it were so the scriptures would not have said that Satan came along with the sons of God. Also a human could not have caused these catastrophies that Job had.
Neither could satan cannot cause the catastrophies Job had. God gave the power to a human accuser to afflict Job. The Hebrew “sawtawn” simply means “accuser.” Job's accuser was a personal enemy and he was a man. Satan was bound when he was cursed in the garden. Revelation 20 says that it was the “ancient serpent” that was bound.
thinker
Hi TT,
Amazing abilities causing winds and storms and walls to fall on folk.
Sort of a superman adversary?Con said:
Quote The principle is, if you are saved (truly) then you have the power to rebuke Satan. It does not mean Satan does not exist. Hense his loss of authority. If one does not rebuke him then his authority roams rampant. Not double talk.
Jesus said that satan was “thrown out.” If a man is “thrown out” of office he is both without authority and physically removed from office. Jesus said, “NOW is the prince of this world THROWN OUT.” It means that satan has been REMOVED.Con:
Quote Show me where which original does not have “one”?
οἴδαμεν ὅτι ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ ἐσμεν, καὶ ὁ κόσμος ὅλος ἐν τῷ πονηρῷ κεῖται The Greek words highlighted in bold literally read, “the evil remains.” The word “one” is not present in the text.Con:
Quote 1John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one [ponēros] toucheth him not.
The word “one” is not present here either.Wycliffe New Testament:“We know, that each man that is born of God, sinneth not; but the generation of God keepeth him, and the wicked toucheth him not.”
Con's source;
Quote Referring to Mat 6:13: “Although the KJV renders this 'deliver us from evil,' the presence of the article indicates not evil in general, but the evil one himself…. (Daniel B. Wallace, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, p. 233).
Inconclusive! It could refer to deliverance from “the evil generation.” Even if it was a reference to satan this was said BEFORE satan was cast into the lake of fire.thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 23 2009,04:48) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 23 2009,04:14) Bodhitharta said; Quote There was no human accuser in Job if it were so the scriptures would not have said that Satan came along with the sons of God. Also a human could not have caused these catastrophies that Job had.
Neither could satan cannot cause the catastrophies Job had. God gave the power to a human accuser to afflict Job. The Hebrew “sawtawn” simply means “accuser.” Job's accuser was a personal enemy and he was a man. Satan was bound when he was cursed in the garden. Revelation 20 says that it was the “ancient serpent” that was bound.
thinker
Hi TT,
Amazing abilities causing winds and storms and walls to fall on folk.
Sort of a superman adversary?
So you believe an evil spirit has such powers apart from God?
God gave the same powers to a man called Moses. True or false?thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 22 2009,17:44) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 23 2009,04:48) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 23 2009,04:14) Bodhitharta said; Quote There was no human accuser in Job if it were so the scriptures would not have said that Satan came along with the sons of God. Also a human could not have caused these catastrophies that Job had.
Neither could satan cannot cause the catastrophies Job had. God gave the power to a human accuser to afflict Job. The Hebrew “sawtawn” simply means “accuser.” Job's accuser was a personal enemy and he was a man. Satan was bound when he was cursed in the garden. Revelation 20 says that it was the “ancient serpent” that was bound.
thinker
Hi TT,
Amazing abilities causing winds and storms and walls to fall on folk.
Sort of a superman adversary?
So you believe an evil spirit has such powers apart from God? God gave the same powers to a man called Moses. True or false?thinker
JackWhat about the demon posessed in Jesus time, did they not have power to aflict with sickness and desease and control both men and beast?
Didn't Jesus speak of satan having a Kindom?
Blessings Keith
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 23 2009,04:44) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 22 2009,11:51) Hi thethinker: Posting the following scriptures for your consideration:
Quote 1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jo 3:10 ¶ In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
It seems to me that these scriptures are saying that someone is born again the works of the devil have been destroyed in that person because he was practicing sin and was therefore was a child of the devil, and now, being born again, he is obeying the Word of God, and is a child of God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Believers are born of Abraham. Get my point?thinker
No, I don't get your point. Please explain as it relates to Satan already being in the lake of fire.Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 22 2009,19:10) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 21 2009,20:37) Quote (Gene @ Oct. 22 2009,14:30) BD………TK may not be as far off as you think he is. You said Jesus called him a He, so was that Peter after Jesus called him satan, or was it Judas, Jesus said he was a devil. So which he was it Peter or Judas, or the Pharisees Jesus called them childern of the devil there Father. There is no being (person) that is (THE) Devil or SATAN, Just adversarial spirit (intellect) that is in at times everyone. GOD created that nature and it was in EVE and Adam and in all man kind . The word just mean adversary and nothing else, when ever we resist or oppose GOD'S word we are acting as an adversary to him, just as Peter did to Jesus. As far as the demonic spirits (intellects) in the man who had a legion of them in him, Jesus just simply sent them into the pigs and they began to act like the crazy man did and went running wildly into the sea, where they died. Thoughts can be transfered from one person or being to another and if they are crazy the thing or person will act crazy. These are (NOT) beings they are thoughts or intellects or spirits. These thought can go in and out of people as Jesus said they could example, the unclean spirits that left the man and returned. These are not beings they are thoughts. Thoughts are not beings they are what is in the beings, Spirit is thought and that is intellect or mind, same thing, not some person going around jumping in and out of people. But thoughts, IMO peace and love……………..gene
Spirits are beings of intellect they are not beings of flesh or “persons”These beings can be malicious or beneficial obviously if these beings were gathered in a man and begged for mercy they had a will that was separate from the man they were in and also from Jesus therefore these beings were independent beings.
Adam and Eve was obviously influenced by a being outside themselves otherwise God would not have spoke about punishing anyone other than Adam and Eve.
It is true that Devils can make a person Demonic so a person under such influence can be called “devil” as well.
Just as a person under the influence of God is called Godly and in the case of Jesus and some others people have even called them God but you won't call Jesus “God” realizing that God's nature is in him. Therefore you do realize that God is a being that a person can be under direct infuence by.
Bod,Is that what they call Ginns, or is Ginns something different?
According to the Quran, Jinns are beings that were created before humans they can be either good or bad they are not angels.Angels were made from light but Jinns were made from smokeless fire and they are invisible to us. The story of Solomon tells of the jinn and how solomon incorporated them in building.
Quote (Tim Kraft @ Oct. 22 2009,22:15) Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 22 2009,15:37) Quote (Gene @ Oct. 22 2009,14:30) BD………TK may not be as far off as you think he is. You said Jesus called him a He, so was that Peter after Jesus called him satan, or was it Judas, Jesus said he was a devil. So which he was it Peter or Judas, or the Pharisees Jesus called them childern of the devil there Father. There is no being (person) that is (THE) Devil or SATAN, Just adversarial spirit (intellect) that is in at times everyone. GOD created that nature and it was in EVE and Adam and in all man kind . The word just mean adversary and nothing else, when ever we resist or oppose GOD'S word we are acting as an adversary to him, just as Peter did to Jesus. As far as the demonic spirits (intellects) in the man who had a legion of them in him, Jesus just simply sent them into the pigs and they began to act like the crazy man did and went running wildly into the sea, where they died. Thoughts can be transfered from one person or being to another and if they are crazy the thing or person will act crazy. These are (NOT) beings they are thoughts or intellects or spirits. These thought can go in and out of people as Jesus said they could example, the unclean spirits that left the man and returned. These are not beings they are thoughts. Thoughts are not beings they are what is in the beings, Spirit is thought and that is intellect or mind, same thing, not some person going around jumping in and out of people. But thoughts, IMO peace and love……………..gene
Spirits are beings of intellect they are not beings of flesh or “persons”These beings can be malicious or beneficial obviously if these beings were gathered in a man and begged for mercy they had a will that was separate from the man they were in and also from Jesus therefore these beings were independent beings.
Adam and Eve was obviously influenced by a being outside themselves otherwise God would not have spoke about punishing anyone other than Adam and Eve.
It is true that Devils can make a person Demonic so a person under such influence can be called “devil” as well.
Just as a person under the influence of God is called Godly and in the case of Jesus and some others people have even called them God but you won't call Jesus “God” realizing that God's nature is in him. Therefore you do realize that God is a being that a person can be under direct infuence by.
Hi Bod: In my opinion, humans are beings filled with and surrounded by(aura) spirit/energy. The energy most abundant within is predominant. Sages and Masters are just regular human beings that have spent more time contemplating and pondering the information and truth of God than most. The more light energy/God one consumes within the mind, the higher and lighter the energy field within and without. You are what you eat/partake of. In reality there is only God energy. I believe man created or at least partook of a deception,lie,untruth,illusion of evil. Until that time there was only Good/God, everywhere. Man began to feel that he was separtated or separating from God. Fear got stronger and man tried harder to make amends with God(who never left him in the first place). This is the birth of religion, mans ideas of pacifying or pleasing God to have a good life on earth. I digress! We have a war within our minds for the truth of God or a man created illusion of evil. If one partakes of enough God Truth he lives forever. If one believes enough evil, pain, sickness, disease, etc., he will surely die! If we want to live forever in heaven on earth we must kick out all forms of evil thinking, individually. No evil thinking. No sin thinking. You create in your life what you think, believe and ponder predominantly. You reap what you sow. If you sow perfection that God has made us then you will reap that here in heaven on earth. God Bless TK
I don't totally disagree with you as this is called Jihad(Spiritual Warfare) within the individual but there is also Jihad (Spiritual Warfare) without the individual.Other beings have been created by God and I am sure you don't deny the existence of angels do you well likewise we have scripture that explains there are spirits that do evil you are also at warfare with these spirits.
To not believe in these spirits is not to believe in angels and to not believe in angels is to deny the existence of God which you seem comfortable with calling God “energy”
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 22 2009,02:53) Quote (georg @ Oct. 21 2009,14:56) Hey, thinker Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
1Cr 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Hbr 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;When did that all happen?
Georg
Hi Georg,
It all happened in ad70 when the old covenant came to its full end. Please note that Revelation 22:17 says that we invite people to come and take of the water of life. THE WATER OF LIFE IS IN THE NEW JERUSALEM. THE NEW JERUSALEM IS AFTER THE DESTRUCTION OF DEATH.thinker
thinkerYou are obviously the Czar of confusion.
Georg
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 23 2009,04:14) Bodhitharta said; Quote There was no human accuser in Job if it were so the scriptures would not have said that Satan came along with the sons of God. Also a human could not have caused these catastrophies that Job had.
Neither could satan cannot cause the catastrophies Job had. God gave the power to a human accuser to afflict Job. The Hebrew “sawtawn” simply means “accuser.” Job's accuser was a personal enemy and he was a man. Satan was bound when he was cursed in the garden. Revelation 20 says that it was the “ancient serpent” that was bound.
thinker
1 Thessalonians 214For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
15Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:
16Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.
17But we, brethren, being taken from you for a short time in presence, not in heart, endeavoured the more abundantly to see your face with great desire.
17But we, brethren, being taken from you for a short time in presence, not in heart, endeavoured the more abundantly to see your face with great desire.
18Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.
Study and God Bless you!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 23 2009,10:00) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 22 2009,17:44) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 23 2009,04:48) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 23 2009,04:14) Bodhitharta said; Quote There was no human accuser in Job if it were so the scriptures would not have said that Satan came along with the sons of God. Also a human could not have caused these catastrophies that Job had.
Neither could satan cannot cause the catastrophies Job had. God gave the power to a human accuser to afflict Job. The Hebrew “sawtawn” simply means “accuser.” Job's accuser was a personal enemy and he was a man. Satan was bound when he was cursed in the garden. Revelation 20 says that it was the “ancient serpent” that was bound.
thinker
Hi TT,
Amazing abilities causing winds and storms and walls to fall on folk.
Sort of a superman adversary?
So you believe an evil spirit has such powers apart from God? God gave the same powers to a man called Moses. True or false?thinker
JackWhat about the demon posessed in Jesus time, did they not have power to aflict with sickness and desease and control both men and beast?
Didn't Jesus speak of satan having a Kindom?
Blessings Keith
Hi Keith,
Apart from God satan and demons had no power. And if they did this does not happen today which supports the Preterist view that satan and his demons have been removed.Yes satan had a kingdom but his rule was over the minds of men.
Revelation 20 says that it was the “ancient serpent” that was bound. So the churches knew that John was taking it all the way back to the beginning when it all started. Therefore, his binding began in the garden when he was cursed. Why was there no demon possession in the old testament? Answer: Because he was bound. This was the thousands of years period. Then he was loosed for the “little season” between Christ's first and second advents. It was not until then that we see all manner of satanic activity and demon possession.
Then satan was judged at the cross and the first century church finished the job. Paul told the Ephesians that they were seated in the heavens (chap 2) and that the purpose of their session in the heavens was to engage in warfare with the devil and “spiritual wickedness” (chap 6).
Paul told the Romans that satan was to be “crushed' under their feet “shortly.”
Quote And the God of peace will crush satan under YOUR feet SHORTLY (Rom. 16:20) The word “shortly” cannot mean thousands of years for Paul said that satan would be crushed under THEIR feet. “And the God of peace will crush satan under YOUR feet shortly.”
It is clear that the church of the apostolic age defeated satan. The judgment came upon the world at that time and satan was cast into the lake of fire. So we are now in the new heaven and earth where the water of life flows from the throne of God (Rev. 22:1-2). And the Spirit and the Bride say “come and take of the water of life freely.”Jesus said, “NOW shall the prince of this world be THROWN OUT.” Paul assured the Romans that God would crush satan under THEIR feet.
thinker
bodhitharta said:
Quote Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.
bd,
Paul said that satan would be crushed under the feet of the first century ChristiansQuote And the God of peace will crush satan under YOUR feet SHORTLY (Rom. 16:20) Satan was crushed under THEIR feet. He hinders no more!
thinker
Hi TT,
Do you infer that crushing means immobilising so that he cannot work in the world?
The books of Paul are to the saved and these promises uphold their great power.
But most men are not among the anointed ones and satan rules them?Can we possibly look a devils, demons, and deception for what they actually are? These are thoughts of the mind. You have thoughts of the mind that are of God and they line up with all that God is and you have thoughts that are not in line with God/truth. A thought not in line with God is un-truth or a deceptive truth, incorrect information, error(sin) thinking. You have the annointing power of God or the mind of Christ, within you now, provided by Jesus, if you believe it. Devils or Lies and deceptions have no power, they can only try to use your power to destroy you. God thoughts create, build up, protect, administer life, feel good. Thoughts cannot force their way into the human mind. We allow them. As long as we don't meditate on the destructive thoughts and believe them they will pass to and from the mind. When we accept negative doctrines as part of our God/Truth we begin to destroy ourselves. If they are accepted and believed they produce evil, death, destruction, sickness and disease. Lies against God/Truth are always thoughts that if accepted will take you to hell on earth and destroy you. The Angel thoughts of God can be accepted in the mind or you can create your own Angel thoughts by pondering and dreaming on life, love, kind works, goodness, happiness etc.! Whatever is predominate in your mind and believed in your heart is what you are and what will be created in this life on earth! God is running the show through you if you put off yourself(die to self) and take on and express God/Truth/Love in your life. Then like Jesus you would say to someone, I do nothing I do not see the Father do. We desparately need a religion data dump. I see masses of man made doctrines being passed to and fro. We should start at the beginning where Jesus prepared the way. The Law is finished. Sin has been removed from mankind. We are one together with the Father/God/Jesus/the whole Spirit just like it was in the Garden of Eden!! Now the battle in the mind is for pure, untainted Truth of God. Sin is a lie.There is no sin in God. Are you in God? What you believe God/Jesus has made you is what you are. If you believe in evil, then evil is what you will eventually create and experience in this life. If you believe that God/Jesus has cleansed you, purified you, made you whole and perfect then all the creative powers of God will see to it that your experience on earth will reflect abundantly more than you could ask or think. I many of those reading this right now there is a flood of negative, deceptive, un-truth swarming your mind telling you this cannot be true. Hold fast or the truth seed being planted here will be removed BY DECEIVERS. God loves all forever, TK
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 23 2009,20:46) Hi TT,
Do you infer that crushing means immobilising so that he cannot work in the world?
The books of Paul are to the saved and these promises uphold their great power.
But most men are not among the anointed ones and satan rules them?
Nick,
So you do admit that satan was crrushed under the feet of the apostolic church? According to Strong's #4937 the word “suntribo” means “to crush completely” or to “break in pieces.”Looks like satan was immobilized to me.
Add to this Jesus' statement, “NOW shall the prince of this world be CAST OUT.” Strong's #1544 says it means “to eject” or to “drive out” or to “thrust out.” From where was satan “thrust out” if not the world? Jesus said “now.” Paul said that satan would be completely crushed or broken to pieces under the feet of the first christians.
Why do you want for satan to be in the world today?
thinker
Quote (942767 @ Oct. 23 2009,10:52) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 23 2009,04:44) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 22 2009,11:51) Hi thethinker: Posting the following scriptures for your consideration:
Quote 1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jo 3:10 ¶ In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
It seems to me that these scriptures are saying that someone is born again the works of the devil have been destroyed in that person because he was practicing sin and was therefore was a child of the devil, and now, being born again, he is obeying the Word of God, and is a child of God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Believers are born of Abraham. Get my point?thinker
No, I don't get your point. Please explain as it relates to Satan already being in the lake of fire.Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,
Sorry. That men are children of the devil does not imply that the devil is here now anymore than our being the children of Abraham implies that Abraham is here now.thinker
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