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Quote think the more he quotes it the more real it becomes. –con
It is so irritating when people think that if they repeat something over and over again, it makes it true.
Quote (david @ Oct. 20 2009,21:08) Quote think the more he quotes it the more real it becomes. –con
It is so irritating when people think that if they repeat something over and over again, it makes it true.
It worked in Germany.Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 21 2009,07:46) Almost perfect Nick except for one thing. Jesus did not merely begin the reclamation process. He FINISHED the work entirely. Satan is in the lake of fire. Praise His name! thinker
To Thinker.So death is completely conquered and God is in all now?
If that was the case, surely we would be in the new earth and new heavens?1 Corinthians 15:24-28 (English-NIV)
24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
27 For he has put everything under his feet. Now when it says that everything has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.Ezekiel 28:13-19 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone [was] thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee [so]: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire (See Isaiah 14:12-15; 2Th 2:4). Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire (See 2Peter 2:4-6; Rev 12:9). Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee (See Isa 14:9-20). Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee (See mal 4:3). All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never [shalt] thou [be] any more (Eze 17:36-36.
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 21 2009,01:13) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 21 2009,07:46) Almost perfect Nick except for one thing. Jesus did not merely begin the reclamation process. He FINISHED the work entirely. Satan is in the lake of fire. Praise His name! thinker
To Thinker.So death is completely conquered and God is in all now?
If that was the case, surely we would be in the new earth and new heavens?1 Corinthians 15:24-28 (English-NIV)
24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
27 For he has put everything under his feet. Now when it says that everything has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
And TT calls me defiled.Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 21 2009,01:18) Ezekiel 28:13-19 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone [was] thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee [so]: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire (See Isaiah 14:12-15; 2Th 2:4). Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire (See 2Peter 2:4-6; Rev 12:9). Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee (See Isa 14:9-20). Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee (See mal 4:3). All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never [shalt] thou [be] any more (See Eze 17:36-36).
Ezekiel 28:13-19 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone [was] thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee [so]: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire (See Isaiah 14:12-15; 2Th 2:4). Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire (See 2Peter 2:4-6; Rev 12:9). Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee (See Isa 14:9-20). Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee (See mal 4:3). All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never [shalt] thou [be] any more (See Eze 17:36-36).Quote (david @ Oct. 21 2009,16:08) Quote think the more he quotes it the more real it becomes. –con
It is so irritating when people think that if they repeat something over and over again, it makes it true.
God hands people over to their sinful desires if they persist and also gives them a depraved mind if they go to far.If people truly seek truth, they will find it. If they repeat that which has been disproved, then they will not find the truth because they are not interested in the truth. Such are probably more interested in being considered correct. It is a form of pride.
In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also. . . And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I [am] in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe. Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.[/B[ John 14:2-3; 16; 18; 19-20; 23; 28-30
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 21 2009,03:03) In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also. . . And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I [am] in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe. Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.[/B[ John 14:2-3; 16; 18; 19-20; 23; 28-30
In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also. . . And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I [am] in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe. Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me. John 14:2-3; 16; 18; 19-20; 23; 28-30Quote (georg @ Oct. 21 2009,14:56) Hey, thinker Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
1Cr 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
Hbr 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;When did that all happen?
Georg
Hi Georg,
It all happened in ad70 when the old covenant came to its full end. Please note that Revelation 22:17 says that we invite people to come and take of the water of life. THE WATER OF LIFE IS IN THE NEW JERUSALEM. THE NEW JERUSALEM IS AFTER THE DESTRUCTION OF DEATH.thinker
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 21 2009,15:33) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 20 2009,20:23) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 21 2009,08:20) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 21 2009,08:14) Hi TT,
Are we allowed to make our our minds up and teach without support?
What scripture can you offer to show that satan is operating in the world today?thinker
Hi thethinker:Quote 1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Love in Christ,
Marty
Careful folks, TT is going to quote John chapter 12 for the next 40-50 pages like he has done with the Temple of idols in the Halloween postings, he tosses out a verse and beats it to death think the more he quotes it the more real it becomes.
Actaully I cited several passages. You need to read the thread again. I hammered on one because of you and David avoided it.And the statement in 1 Peter about the devil roaming about proves only that satan was operating THEN. It does not prove that he roams about today. Satan does not operate in the new covenant age.
thinker
Constitutionalist said:
Quote The phrase driven out must refer to Satan’s loss of authority over this world. This must be in principle rather than in immediate fact, since 1 John 5:19 states that the whole world (still) lies in the power of the evil one (a reference to Satan). TO ALL:
Note Con's double talk. He said that satan has lost his authority over this world. Then he says, “This must be in principle rather than in fact.”
Well, if it is not in fact then satan has not lost his authority over this world now has he? This is just a sample of the double talk you will see from Con. I have met this many times. Futurist interpreters are given to double talk in their eschatology. And 1 John 5:19 is inconclusive. First, it literally reads “the evil.” The word “one” is not present in the original. John said that the whole world lies in the power of “the evil.” Second, the Greek word for “evil” is “πονηρῷ” and can be either masculine or neuter. If it is masculine then it could refer to satan. But there is nothing in the text that requires us to take it as a masculine noun. If it is neuter then John was saying that the whole world lies in the power of “the evil things” [of the world]. This is most likely because John had just told them to love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. I believe that John was referring to the “evil things” of the world. I believe that John was saying that the whole world lies in the power of “the evil things.”
Con first offers us double talk and then follows that with an inconclusive statement in scripture. He's going to need to do much better than this if he is going to prove that satan has authority in the new covenant age.
Does Con want truth or tradition? We'll see.
thinker
Hi TT,
So you really do not know that what you stated as truth is really true?
Why do you go out on a limb of presumption before checking?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 22 2009,05:04) Hi TT,
So you really do not know that what you stated as truth is really true?
Why do you go out on a limb of presumption before checking?
Nick,
I said that Con's treatment of 1 John 5:19 was inconclusive. The text does not say that the whole world lies in the power of the evil “one.” It literally says, “the evil.” I take it to mean that the whole world lies in the power of the evil “things.” I have some support from a few translations.Young's Literal translation: “we have known that of God we are, and the whole world in the evil doth lie;”
21st Century KJV: “And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.”
Wycliffe New Testament: “We know, that we be of God, and all the world is set in evil [and all the world is put in wicked].”
So you see that it literally reads that the whole world lies in “the evil” or in “wickedness.” How could John have been saying that the whole world lies in the power of the devil when he had previously said that Christ was manifested to destroy the works of the devil (1 John 3:8)?
Con cannot prove his case from 1 John 5:19. I just hope he has something better then what he has done so far or this will be quite boring. This will reveal whether or not he wants truth or tradition.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 22 2009,06:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 22 2009,05:04) Hi TT,
So you really do not know that what you stated as truth is really true?
Why do you go out on a limb of presumption before checking?
Nick,
I said that Con's treatment of 1 John 5:19 was inconclusive. The text does not say that the whole world lies in the power of the evil “one.” It literally says, “the evil.” I take it to mean that the whole world lies in the power of the evil “things.” I have some support from a few translations.Young's Literal translation: “we have known that of God we are, and the whole world in the evil doth lie;”
21st Century KJV: “And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.”
Wycliffe New Testament: “We know, that we be of God, and all the world is set in evil [and all the world is put in wicked].”
So you see that it literally reads that the whole world lies in “the evil” or in “wickedness.” How could John have been saying that the whole world lies in the power of the devil when he had previously said that Christ was manifested to destroy the works of the devil (1 John 3:8)?
Con cannot prove his case from 1 John 5:19. I just hope he has something better then what he has done so far or this will be quite boring. This will reveal whether or not he wants truth or tradition.
thinker
So are you saying the devil no longer exists?How about demons or malicious spirits?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 22 2009,06:18) Hi TT,
You have proven nothing so why did you state it in the first place?
Nick,
It says in 1 John 3:8 that Christ was manifested to destroy the works of the devil. So 5:19 cannot mean that the whole world is under the devil's power. They were under the power of the things of the world or wickedness and evil itself. It's quite easy to understand Nick.thinker
Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 22 2009,06:07) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 22 2009,06:04) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 22 2009,05:04) Hi TT,
So you really do not know that what you stated as truth is really true?
Why do you go out on a limb of presumption before checking?
Nick,
I said that Con's treatment of 1 John 5:19 was inconclusive. The text does not say that the whole world lies in the power of the evil “one.” It literally says, “the evil.” I take it to mean that the whole world lies in the power of the evil “things.” I have some support from a few translations.Young's Literal translation: “we have known that of God we are, and the whole world in the evil doth lie;”
21st Century KJV: “And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.”
Wycliffe New Testament: “We know, that we be of God, and all the world is set in evil [and all the world is put in wicked].”
So you see that it literally reads that the whole world lies in “the evil” or in “wickedness.” How could John have been saying that the whole world lies in the power of the devil when he had previously said that Christ was manifested to destroy the works of the devil (1 John 3:8)?
Con cannot prove his case from 1 John 5:19. I just hope he has something better then what he has done so far or this will be quite boring. This will reveal whether or not he wants truth or tradition.
thinker
So are you saying the devil no longer exists?How about demons or malicious spirits?
Hey bd,
The devil and the evil spirits exist but are all in the lake of fire suffering.thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 22 2009,03:02) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 21 2009,15:33) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 20 2009,20:23) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 21 2009,08:20) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 21 2009,08:14) Hi TT,
Are we allowed to make our our minds up and teach without support?
What scripture can you offer to show that satan is operating in the world today?thinker
Hi thethinker:Quote 1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Love in Christ,
Marty
Careful folks, TT is going to quote John chapter 12 for the next 40-50 pages like he has done with the Temple of idols in the Halloween postings, he tosses out a verse and beats it to death think the more he quotes it the more real it becomes.
Actaully I cited several passages. You need to read the thread again. I hammered on one because of you and David avoided it.And the statement in 1 Peter about the devil roaming about proves only that satan was operating THEN. It does not prove that he roams about today. Satan does not operate in the new covenant age.
thinker
Hi thethinker:He was operating then, Peter was operating in the new covenant era, and he is operating now.
Please give me your understanding of the following scriptures. Has this already been fulfilled?
Quote Rev 20:1 ¶ And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Rev 20:4 ¶ And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Rev 20:7 ¶ And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Love in Christ,
Marty
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