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yes I know stuart Solomon made you a throne in the forest!
he was the wisest man on earth2Ch 9:17 ¶ Moreover the king made a great throne of ivory, and overlaid it with pure gold.
2Ch 9:18 And [there were] six steps to the throne, with a footstool of gold, [which were] fastened to the throne, and stays on each side of the sitting place, and two lions standing by the stays:
2Ch 9:19 And twelve lions stood there on the one side and on the other upon the six steps. There was not the like made in any kingdom.
2Ch 9:20 And all the drinking vessels of king Solomon [were of] gold, and all the vessels of the house of the forest of Lebanon [were of] pure gold: none [were of] silver; it was [not] any thing accounted of in the days of Solomon.
2Ch 9:21 For the king's ships went to Tarshish with the servants of Huram: every three years once came the ships of Tarshish bringing gold, and silver, ivory, and apes, and peacocks.Don't you rmenber I told about the shipment of apes
Quote (Stu @ Nov. 20 2007,20:38) Quote (david @ Nov. 20 2007,20:31) How, then, should we react to the voice of strangers? “A stranger they will by no means follow but will flee from him.” (John 10:5)
“Keep your eye on those who cause divisions and occasions for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them.” (Romans 16:17; Titus 3:10)
Towshab said people were running scared. I didn't believe him at first, but you have shown me he is right!Stuart
Stuart you’re out of control,
behaving like a child picking fights
stop trying to be batman and robinQuote (david @ Nov. 20 2007,21:12) REVELATION 11:18
“But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time . . . to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.””
Are you saying my anger might save the earth?!Stuart
Quote (charity @ Nov. 20 2007,21:31) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 20 2007,20:38) Quote (david @ Nov. 20 2007,20:31) How, then, should we react to the voice of strangers? “A stranger they will by no means follow but will flee from him.” (John 10:5)
“Keep your eye on those who cause divisions and occasions for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them.” (Romans 16:17; Titus 3:10)
Towshab said people were running scared. I didn't believe him at first, but you have shown me he is right!Stuart
Stuart you’re out of control,
behaving like a child picking fights
stop trying to be batman and robin
Sure, Charity, what else would you like me to do?David has found some choice pieces that demonstrate the extent to which the gospel writers, and others, went to stop people questioning christian doctrine. They are exactly the kinds of slogans that were used in the communist dictatorships of the cold war to prevent people thinking for themselves. Secular organisations (and some churches too)educate and encourage independent thought. Cults immunise their followers against it. These verses are political innoculation. Is scriptural fundamentalist christianity a cult? For example we see Samuel, for whom I feel some pain, causing himself much distress because of the gap between what he does and what he feels he should do. I'm sure he is not the only one. What use is a doctrine like this if it keeps you in stress the whole time?
Stuart
Quote (Stu @ Nov. 20 2007,21:41) Quote (charity @ Nov. 20 2007,21:31) Quote (Stu @ Nov. 20 2007,20:38) Quote (david @ Nov. 20 2007,20:31) How, then, should we react to the voice of strangers? “A stranger they will by no means follow but will flee from him.” (John 10:5)
“Keep your eye on those who cause divisions and occasions for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them.” (Romans 16:17; Titus 3:10)
Towshab said people were running scared. I didn't believe him at first, but you have shown me he is right!Stuart
Stuart you’re out of control,
behaving like a child picking fights
stop trying to be batman and robin
Sure, Charity, what else would you like me to do?David has found some choice pieces that demonstrate the extent to which the gospel writers, and others, went to stop people questioning christian doctrine. They are exactly the kinds of slogans that were used in the communist dictatorships of the cold war to prevent people thinking for themselves. Secular organisations (and some churches too)educate and encourage independent thought. Cults immunise their followers against it. These verses are political innoculation. Is scriptural fundamentalist christianity a cult? For example we see Samuel, for whom I feel some pain, causing himself much distress because of the gap between what he does and what he feels he should do. I'm sure he is not the only one. What use is a doctrine like this if it keeps you in stress the whole time?
Stuart
Its fine to talk this out, just don't use towshab's words as a bat
How you feel is okay, but you must let others feel how they do.
Some of us have made Hugh changes in our beliefs, its hard when one has been taught from a small child to believe a certain way, its really suffering it out day after day,
We don’t need to come on here to get insulted, when we can call the family up for that!Quote (david @ Nov. 19 2007,22:00) Quote Allegory anyone? Please. Have you ever met a talking snake? So, you're saying the snake never really existed? It was an allegory? Is that what you're saying? And that God was speaking to this allegory?
I guess I'm not getting through to you. The whole story was an allegory including G-d speaking to a serpent.
Quote NUMBERS 22:22-30
“And the anger of God began to blaze because he was going; and Jehovah’s angel proceeded to station himself in the road to resist him. And he was riding upon his she-ass, and two attendants of his were with him. And the ass got to see Jehovah’s angel stationed in the road with his drawn sword in his hand; and the ass tried to turn aside from the road that she might go into the field, but Ba′laam began to strike the ass in order to turn her aside to the road. And Jehovah’s angel kept standing in the narrow way between the vineyards, with a stone wall on this side and a stone wall on that side. And the she-ass kept seeing Jehovah’s angel and began to squeeze herself against the wall and so to squeeze Ba′laam’s foot against the wall; and he went beating her some more. Jehovah’s angel now passed by again and stood in a narrow place, where there was no way to turn aside to the right or the left. When the ass got to see Jehovah’s angel she now lay down under Ba′laam; so that Ba′laam’s anger blazed, and he kept beating the ass with his staff. Finally Jehovah opened the mouth of the ass and she said to Ba′laam: “What have I done to you so that you have beaten me these three times?” At this Ba′laam said to the ass: “It is because you have dealt ruthlessly with me. If only there were a sword in my hand, for now I should have killed you!” Then the she-ass said to Ba′laam: “Am I not your she-ass that you have ridden upon all your life long until this day? Have I ever been used to do to you this way?” To which he said: “No!””I've never met a talking donkey before either, but the Bible says that this happened once.
Wonder when donkeys lost the ability to speak? I'm assuming he spoke Hebrew or Aramaic. Or maybe he was the first one to receive the gift of tongues and like modern Christians most don't believe in tongues for people either?
Quote Your allegory idea. Please explain what you believe actually happened.
The whole thing was an allegory to show that G-d has given man free will. This was just a story to demonstrate what the first exercise of that free will may have been.Quote (david @ Nov. 20 2007,03:04) Quote As far as the snake is concerned are you are forgetting that it looked different before it gave the fruit to Eve? –im4truth
Explain.
Quote Why is his opinion so important to you?
First, his opinion isn't that important to me. If I needed someone's opinion, I would most likely not ask people on this site for their opinion. And if it had to be someone on this site, it wouldn't be him.
But if you mean, why do I converse with him….it is because he needs the most help. Not that I believe he can be helped. I simply don't know. But what I do know, is that he is the most lost, the most deceived, the most in need of understanding and truth.I wasn't going to respond to this since it was to MrsIM but I had to because it took me three minutes to quit laughing when I read this. Yes I need the help. Please lobotomize me so I won't keep reading those pesky Tanakh passages that deny your savior as the end times Moshiach. I need to be brainwashed again.
Quote I realize that Jesus said if someone doesn't listen to your message to shake the dust from your feet, move on to the next house or village…. But I'm not really engaged in the preaching work or the spreading of the good news of the kingdom on this site. (Mat 24:14) The other reason that I spend time talking with him, is because it makes me a stronger, more patient person.
Glad I could help. Maybe I should take it up a notch just like you'd add more weight to your exercises as you got stronger. Wouldn't want your spiritual muscles to get all flabby.
Quote Yes, there are certain people we should not talk to, according to the Bible–apostates for one. We shouldn't eat a meal, etc, with them, according to the Bible. An apostate is someone who was of your faith and then rebeled against it and is now speaking badly against those ones. Come to think of it, perhaps we shouldn't be engaging him. I generally view apostates to be ones of my religion who have done such. If a Catholic decides to become a Baptist then he is an apostate to the Catholic religion if he speaks badly against catholics. But he's not considered an apostate to Evangelicals, for example. So I'm not sure those scriptures would apply. Quote David I like you, ahhhhh….
Yes Christians are like that. If one leaves from a certain denomination they are looked upon poorly by the ones who were left behind. All of that infighting. You are all Christians when it comes time to do a big tally but the rest of the time you're all calling each other heretics and lost.More like when did a donkey find the ability to speck, when they never had it. and balaam was so angry he wasn't even shocked
When did the trees start talking from the beginning?
And they are clearly Man
Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Jdg 9:8 The trees went forth [on a time] to anoint a king over them; and they said unto the olive tree, Reign thou over us.
Jdg 9:9 But the olive tree said unto them, Should I leave my fatness, wherewith by me they honour God and man, and go to be promoted over the trees?
Jdg 9:10 And the trees said to the fig tree, Come thou, [and] reign over us.
Quote (david @ Nov. 20 2007,03:09) I will look for more, but here is a scripture that may apply (to stu as well): 2 TIMOTHY 2:16
“But shun empty speeches that violate what is holy; for they will advance to more and more ungodliness, and their word will spread like gangrene.Although not really in those conversations, stu apparently has been speaking in a way about God that apparently violates all that is holy and right.
We are to shun such speeches.
I should perhaps do some research on this.
Yes that Paul, he did not like people saying anything that might jeapordize his mission. Say for instance when some pesky fellows questioned Jesus' claim to the throne of David by his lineage1Ti 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
Paul was the first to start the trend of 'if it rocks your faith ignore it'. Also while you are at it ignore any sign of impending health problems and strange noises coming from under the hood of your car. Ignoring things makes them not real.
I dont think we should worry about anything, what power has our worrie towards changing anything? we have to let them melt an pass away, wickedness enstrangels from the womb, for the serpent stoped her ears, and she became the mother of “All” living the serpents seed, is that not living?Gen 3:20 ¶ And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
Psa 58:1 ¶ [[To the chief Musician, Altaschith, Michtam of David.]] Do ye indeed speak righteousness, O congregation? do ye judge uprightly, O ye sons of men?
Psa 58:2 Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth.
Psa 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
Psa 58:4 Their poison [is] like the poison of a serpent: [they are] like the deaf adder [that] stoppeth her ear;
Psa 58:5 Which will not hearken to the voice of charmers, charming never so wisely.
Psa 58:6 Break their teeth, O God, in their mouth: break out the great teeth of the young lions, O LORD.
Psa 58:7 Let them melt away as waters [which] run continually: [when] he bendeth [his bow to shoot] his arrows, let them be as cut in pieces.
Psa 58:8 As a snail [which] melteth, let [every one of them] pass away: [like] the untimely birth of a woman, [that] they may not see the sun.No they may not see the sun. Son…
when he bends his bow he must shoot, grace and mercy, the water have to all pass thru
Mat 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.God has never promised to remove the serpent out of way, but we need to overcome by knowledge, Christ has not cut and removed our suffering,
Quote Yes Christians are like that. If one leaves from a certain denomination they are looked upon poorly by the ones who were left behind. Well, people who follow the Hebrew scriptures should be like that:
PROVERBS 11:9
“By [his] mouth the one who is an apostate brings his fellowman to ruin, but by knowledge are the righteous rescued.”
JOB 13:16
“Before him [God] no apostate will come in.” (Should we not imitate God’s response to apostates?)
PSALM 139:21,22
“Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah, and do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to me real enemies.”Quote (david @ Nov. 21 2007,09:03) Quote Yes Christians are like that. If one leaves from a certain denomination they are looked upon poorly by the ones who were left behind. Well, people who follow the Hebrew scriptures should be like that:
PROVERBS 11:9
“By [his] mouth the one who is an apostate brings his fellowman to ruin, but by knowledge are the righteous rescued.”
JOB 13:16
“Before him [God] no apostate will come in.” (Should we not imitate God’s response to apostates?)
PSALM 139:21,22
“Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah, and do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to me real enemies.”
GOD GAVE US A FREE WILL TO RUN OUR HOuses AS WE PLEASEOppressing is to go against Mans given right of freedom with force and accusing to take captive, sowing his pants to his collar, creating him you’re Image,
Instead choosing with respect, just to sharing how you have decided to run your own home….and leave opportunity for a brother to say, your way is wise, and changeQuote GOD GAVE US A FREE WILL TO RUN OUR HOuses AS WE PLEASE No, he didn't. He didn't charity. He gave us free will hoping we would do as “he” pleases. We can do as we please, anything we want, any vile thing. But this is not why God gave us free will–so that we can do things he considers wrong.
I wonder why those words are contained in the Bible? The wise protection of a loving father, perhaps.
May all men Have the god will of God in their house
(Copy)
The First Sentence is Pretty PowerfulGod determines who walks into your life….it's up to you to decide who you let walk away, who you let stay, and who you refuse to let go.
Father, God bless all my friends in whatever it is that You know they may be needing this day! And may their life be full of Your peace, prosperity and power as they seek to have a closer relationship with You. Amen.
Sorry, I've been posting questions to towshab in this thread about “Satan” (since he doesn't believe in satan) thinking this thread was actually about Satan, since that's what it's called.
Apparently, that's not what this thread is about.
PROVERBS 14:15
“Anyone inexperienced puts faith in every word, but the shrewd one considers his steps.”PROVERBS 22:3
“Shrewd is the one that has seen the calamity and proceeds to conceal himself.”We all want to be shrewd and conceal ourself from calamity.
2 COR 11:3
“I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent seduced Eve by its cunning, your minds might be corrupted away from the sincerity and the chastity that are due the Christ.”EPHESIANS 4:14
“in order that we should no longer be babes, tossed about as by waves and carried hither and thither by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in contriving error.”No matter how strong a person’s faith may be, if he feeds his mind on the perverted ideas found among those who wish to denouce Christ, his mind and heart will be affected.
JUDE 8
“In like manner, notwithstanding, these men, too, indulging in dreams, are defiling the flesh and disregarding lordship and speaking abusively of glorious ones.”
(Imagine someone speaking abusively, of not just “glorious ones,” but of God. How should we view them?)2 TIMOTHY 2:16
“But shun empty speeches that violate what is holy; for they will advance to more and more ungodliness, and their word will spread like gangrene.
(It would be a mistake to think that you need to listen to apostates or to read their writings to refute their arguments. Their twisted, poisonous reasoning can cause spiritual harm and can contaminate your faith like rapidly spreading gangrene.)JOHN 10:5
“A stranger they will by no means follow but will flee from him.”ROM 16:17
“Keep your eye on those who cause divisions and occasions for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them.”2 JOHN 9-11
“Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. He that does remain in this teaching is the one that has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to YOU and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into YOUR homes or say a greeting to him. For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.”
1 CORINTHIANS 5:11
“But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.”
1 JOHN 2:19
“They went out from among us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us.”
HEB 6:4-6:
“It is impossible as regards those who have once for all been enlightened, and who have tasted the heavenly free gift, and who have become partakers of holy spirit, and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, but who have fallen away [“if they then commit apostasy,” RS], to revive them again to repentance, because they impale the Son of God afresh for themselves and expose him to public shame.”1 CORINTHIANS 15:33
“Do not be misled. Bad associations spoil useful habits.”Quote (david @ Nov. 20 2007,16:03) Quote Yes Christians are like that. If one leaves from a certain denomination they are looked upon poorly by the ones who were left behind. Well, people who follow the Hebrew scriptures should be like that:
PROVERBS 11:9
“By [his] mouth the one who is an apostate brings his fellowman to ruin, but by knowledge are the righteous rescued.”How did Saul/Paul miss that one? Or do you think he knew but ignored? Likely the latter.
Quote JOB 13:16
“Before him [God] no apostate will come in.” (Should we not imitate God’s response to apostates?)Must be the NWT again taking liberties. No other Christian bible translates 'chaneph' as 'apostate'. Judaica Press translates this verse as
16. He is also my salvation, because a hypocrite cannot come before Him.
So seeing as how Paul was a Jew amongst Jews and a gentile while with them, you could say he was a hypocrite.
An apostate and a hypocrite are not the same although I would classify Paul as both.
Quote PSALM 139:21,22
“Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you, O Jehovah, and do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you? With a complete hatred I do hate them. They have become to me real enemies.”
To get people to worship a man instead of YHVH, Paul must have really hated YHVH.Or are these supposed to be about the man in the red suit holding a pitchfork?
Just to understand, which parts of the genesis account do you beleive are allegory. Where does the allegory start and where does it end. Where they ever in Eden for example. Was “Adam” a real person? (You know, the word “adam” simply means “man” just as Satan simply means “opposer.” It is just as easy to state that he never existed and that it is allegory.)
I just would like to know what you actually believe concerning this.
Your response about the crazy impossibility of a talking snake was met with the Hebrew account of a talking donkey. You made a joke about it, but didn't acknowledge that things like this have happened in the Bible. (Or was that another allegory? I guess it would have to be because there was a talking donkey, right?) “Please”!
Quote (david @ Nov. 20 2007,21:36) Just to understand, which parts of the genesis account do you beleive are allegory. Where does the allegory start and where does it end. Where they ever in Eden for example. Was “Adam” a real person? (You know, the word “adam” simply means “man” just as Satan simply means “opposer.” It is just as easy to state that he never existed and that it is allegory.) David you are beginning to see the light.
Quote I just would like to know what you actually believe concerning this. Your response about the crazy impossibility of a talking snake was met with the Hebrew account of a talking donkey. You made a joke about it, but didn't acknowledge that things like this have happened in the Bible. (Or was that another allegory? I guess it would have to be because there was a talking donkey, right?) “Please”!
I'll believe it was more than allegory on both parts when you show me a talking snake and donkey. Old episodes of Mr. Ed withstanding.Here was the curse on snakes
Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.No where do we see G-d saying that part of the curse was to lose the ability to speak with humans. So either the story was an allegory or we've lost the ability to understand what snakes are saying. Maybe this happened at the tower of Babel
. Oh and Balaam's donkey was at Babel that day too it seems.Quote I'll believe it was more than allegory on both parts when you show me a talking snake and donkey. Old episodes of Mr. Ed withstanding. So, the donkey was also an allegory because donkeys don't normally talk. And all the miracles in the bible are allegories, because miracles don't happen.
Is that the gist of it?
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