Same mind, and line of thought

Participant

David

My point in my quote was to point out that because a few people that have very similar thoughts does not give them the rights to become the intermediaries between God and man or between Christ and men,
The men made organization for the purpose of religion is not to bring people to the truth of God but to bring them to their own understanding of the scriptures,and so placed them selves in between Christ and God,and so they are now chewing all the spiritual food (truth)before it is given to all their members and so prevent the direct communication to and from God ,to be understood and so are kept in bondage ,by the spirit of the organization,and so kills the live of the living word in those members,

Now David show me that I am wrong

October 30, 2012 at 10:11 am#318201

Participant

I agree Terr.

Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

And if the will of Jesus is to do and say the will of God, then he wanted us to be one. But men do not obey the will of God and think that they can set their own Church up. This is truly wrong. The Body of Christ is the Church and it is Christ who builds the Church. Building a denomination or Church building in your own name or the name of another (besides Jesus Christ) is misguided. Many Charlatans have come and drawn men way from Christ and unto themselves.

Only those that do the will of the Father will enter the kingdom. The will of God is not thousands of denominations. Many need to repent of this arrogance.

October 30, 2012 at 10:37 am#318202

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 30 2012,20:20)

And to prove the point further, there are many groups that are united and yet all believe different things.

Obviously this is not a good sign to rely on.

Yes unity is ideal and should be. But it is not the test for the true Church. If in the past we tested which nation was God's nation judging by their worship for the true God, then Israel might not be the clear winner

It is in actual fact the denominations themselves that destroy unity of the body. They pray and deceive people with either or both false doctrine and false authority. The damage they have done is excessive. If they ceased trying to make disciples in their own name, then people could far easily see the truth as to what the true Church is. But as it is written, “stumbling blocks are inevitable, but woe to the men who lay them”. Most are not even aware that the Church is the Body of Christ and not a denomination. It is written, but indoctrination takes them away from this fact.

October 30, 2012 at 5:30 pm#318226

Participant

THANKS and this will add some more ;

1Co 1:5 For in him you have been enriched in every way—in all your speaking and in all your knowledge—
1Co 1:6 because our testimony about Christ was confirmed in you.
1Co 1:7 Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed.
1Co 1:8 He will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 1:9 God, who has called you into fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, is faithful.

1Co 1:10 I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.

1Co 1:11 My brothers, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you.
1Co 1:12 What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paul”; another, “I follow Apollos”; another, “I follow Cephas’”; still another, “I follow Christ.”
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul?
1Co 1:14 I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius,
1Co 1:15 so no one can say that you were baptized into my name.

this was and his the main reason that religion want all their members be baptized in the way they see fit ,because it make them belong to that organization

in this way they use one of the weakness of men ,being social in nature,

1Co 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

1Co 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

1Co 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
1Co 1:22 Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom,
1Co 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,
1Co 1:24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
1Co 1:25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than man’s wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man’s strength.

at any point the apostles made an organization in this world,they organized them selves to be efficient in the works of peaching the message ,BUT ALL MEMBERS WERE DIRECTED TOWARD CHRIST AND HIS FATHER ,and it was alway reinforced to be looking up ward for the promise and never rely on anyone else than Christ his father and the scriptures for the truth.this HIS TRUE LOVE AND WORKING FOR CHRIST AND HIS FATHER ,

October 30, 2012 at 7:33 pm#318238

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (david @ Oct. 29 2012,23:40)

I just want to see where they line up, and where they do not.

David,

You could actually count yourself in our number, if you wanted to. You believe like we do on the major issues of the Bible, ie: One Almighty God, and a firstborn Son who was begotten before the ages, and later sent by his God and our God to be God's sacrificial Lamb to atone for the ever increasing sins of mankind.

As for differences, they are few, far between, and usually not of the kind that would keep any of us from inheriting God's Kingdom, IMO. Here are some examples:

You believe Jesus is Michael: I don't.

Pierre believes the soul of a man is the spirit of a man; I don't.

T8 believes that the word “god” in John 1:1c is qualitative, while I believe just like the NWT puts it: Jesus was a god who was with THE God in the beginning. (Although, a being who is “qualitatively man” is equally “a man” – so I don't think we're as far off here as semantics would imply.)

I've just recently noticed that t8 doesn't believe Jesus was created. I have yet to take him to task for that one, but I soon will.

There are some other small issues we don't see exactly eye to eye on, but these are issues in the scriptures that have some “wiggle room”, and can be understood various different ways. Things like what the bodies of angels consist of. Who knows for sure? And will the knowledge of such things gain us a better chance for eternal life? The same could be said about Jesus being Michael. I recognize the JW points, and why they think he is. I just don't “feel” it myself right now.

You and I have also differed on WHEN Jesus became the Christ. I insist that he was born the Christ, like the scriptures say, while you and many others think it was when he was baptized. Will this disagreement keep either of us from gaining eternal life? I don't think so, since we both believe that Jesus was indeed the foretold Christ of God who was to come.

At any rate, with the exception of a few minor details – the truth of which none of us can know for sure – t8, Pierre, and I seem to understand the scriptures very much the same way.

October 30, 2012 at 10:12 pm#318247

Ed J

Participant

Hi Mike,

Jesus becoming “The Christ” at his baptism is very much like this verse…

“Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen
his star in the east, and are come to worship him.” (Matt. 2:2)
Was Jesus King at his birth or destine to be king at a later point?

“and calleth those things which be not (yet) as though they (already) were.” (Romans 4:17)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

October 30, 2012 at 11:14 pm#318251

Participant

Quote

Now David show me that I am wrong

That is what this this thread will show…or not show.

October 30, 2012 at 11:16 pm#318252

Participant

Quote

That may have been the point you were trying to make.

But the point I am about to make is:

What you actually literally said is inaccurate, and not true. So, what do you guys agree on?

October 30, 2012 at 11:18 pm#318255

Participant

So far, based on the comments that I skim read, we have this:

All three believe that organized religion is unnecessary. Check.

Anything else?

October 30, 2012 at 11:24 pm#318258

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 31 2012,06:33)

Quote (david @ Oct. 29 2012,23:40)

I just want to see where they line up, and where they do not.

David,

As for differences, they are few, far between, and usually not of the kind that would keep any of us from inheriting God's Kingdom, IMO. Here are some examples:

You believe Jesus is Michael: I don't.

Pierre believes the soul of a man is the spirit of a man; I don't.

I've just recently noticed that t8 doesn't believe Jesus was created. I have yet to take him to task for that one, but I soon will.

At any rate, with the exception of a few minor details – the truth of which none of us can know for sure – t8, Pierre, and I seem to understand the scriptures very much the same way.

For a long time, I assumed that the two moderators of the time: nick and T8 had similar beliefs. Then, to my shock and horror, I realized that nick believes that people are tortured in a fiery hell for all time. t8 disagrees with that. t8 chose someone to moderate this forum who was teaching that God is ultimately responsible for torturimg people. It was as if t8 was sponsoring the spreading if that belief by having nick as moderator.

At that moment, it seemed clear to me, that even when you at first think people agree on fundamental things, they may not. Hence, this thread.

October 31, 2012 at 1:53 am#318273

Ed J

Participant

Quote (david @ Oct. 31 2012,10:14)

Quote

Now David show me that I am wrong

That is what this this thread will show…or not show.

Hi David,

Well now, isn't that insightful.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

October 31, 2012 at 3:39 am#318284

Participant

Quote (david @ Oct. 31 2012,05:18)

So far, based on the comments that I skim read, we have this:

All three believe that organized religion is unnecessary. Check.

Anything else?

]david

this his true ,to receive truth from God ,

but it is there for a reason that I know.

i ALSO DO BELIEVE THAT A PERSON STANDS BEFORE GOD AND SO DOES NOT HAVE TO GO DOOR TO DOOR AS A DEMONSTRATION OF HIS FAITH ,THE DEMONSTRATION OF THE FAITH IS DONE TO WHAT IS DONE BY THE BELIEVER 24/7 WERE EVER HE IS,

October 31, 2012 at 4:12 am#318286

Participant

I'm not really needing this to be a thread like the 4000 other threads where we discuss if something is true or not true.

This thread is for determining if the three of you have the same beliefs.

So far, we have at least one.

October 31, 2012 at 4:41 am#318294

Participant

Quote (david @ Oct. 31 2012,10:12)

I'm not really needing this to be a thread like the 4000 other threads where we discuss if something is true or not true.

This thread is for determining if the three of you have the same beliefs.

So far, we have at least one.

]

November 1, 2012 at 12:20 am#318367

Participant

]david

November 1, 2012 at 12:52 am#318376

Participant

Quote (david @ Oct. 31 2012,13:24)

At that moment, it seemed clear to me, that even when you at first think people agree on fundamental things, they may not. Hence, this thread.

Yes initially this was true. But as you usually find given time there are always differences with any person who is free to reason and decide for themselves. This is because we all lead different lives and are exposed to different things. So we end up being different in some ways and beliefs. And we also have different priorities because life is not the same for every person.

Unless of course a person subscribes to a system where they blindly believe everything that is dictated. But that is not recommended because that is not true faith. That is blind faith and hence why there are so many denominations that think they are the exclusive body of believers or that they are the best. This is part of the human condition of course. So what appears as unity is really just unity with a select group and absolute disunity with any believer outside of that particular name of brand that they subscribe to.

Back to Nick. As far as the eternal life of suffering doctrine, Nick didn't believe that the wicked were truly destroyed but that they would live forever in fire. Besides being offensive to God's character who was so fair that he once implemented a system of an eye for an eye. Thus I know of no person that eternally tortured another to in turn suffer the same thing. However, I am sure that Nick was not intentionally offending God, but was believing what he thought was written which was not so much doctrine, but interpretation of prophecy where he got this idea.

To me, this is how people are discipled though. Only the true of heart will be able to believe all the truth of God when it is presented to them. Although it sometimes takes time for people to come around to a truth, it is still better than sign here and believe all that we dictate system that is prevalent.

And with those systems, they often change their minds on previous stances and then expect everyone to also change their minds too, or be branded as obstinate or even wicked for not doing so.

It is better to be a global body that is working out the truth together, then separate groups who all believe they are the best group or the exclusive body.

November 1, 2012 at 12:54 am#318377

Participant

Okay here is something that the 3 musketeers might differ on.
I believe I am the best looking one even though I don't know what the others look like.

November 1, 2012 at 1:23 am#318385