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Cato
Punishment in proportion to the crime? That's not god's way!
I think actually your message, which while it matches the anti-Jesus brutality of 'an eye for an eye', is at odds with the homophobia and bigotry required by Saul of Tarsus. Your christianity is far too reasonable and humane for Heavennet. I shouldn't wonder if you deserve a little off-white box for your blasphemy!
Stuart
Quote (homesick @ June 29 2009,09:37) Jesus paid for our sins by being seperated from God, when He cried on the cross, my God my God why have you forsaken me, He really was frosaken by God because at the moment of His death He had all sin on him. The death referred to in romans23:3 is seperation from God. The physical death that people experience is not true death for according to revelation everyone that is dead will rise again to be judged by God at the great white throne judgment. Physical death is referred to in the new testament as sleep (1 Corinthians 15 ). So there for our “death” cannot pay the price for our sin. But Jesus who experiened seperation from God can. This seperation from God was not forever for Jesus because He was innocent, and did not deserve it as we do. Jesus never sinned, but in His great love for us he took what we desereved, and He is alive now in heaven waiting for us. Hope this helps. blessings
That's more like it! None of Cato's consideration of how the universe works and what is fair. Good, old-school christian misery courtesy of the master of condescension, Paul.Stuart
Quote (Cato @ June 30 2009,03:14) .The universe (which I believe was created by divine will) does not reward or punish it operates on cause and effect. We are not due reward or punishment we simply reap the results of our actions and decisions. As evidence let’s look at Newton's Third Law of Motion which states that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
According to Newton, whenever objects A and B interact with each other, they exert forces upon each other. These two forces are called action and reaction forces. This appears to be a fundamental fact of our universe. I would extrapolate here and claim this applies to humanity in a spiritual sense and not merely a physical one. The result would be that God would not need to punish or reward anyone, we essentially would do that ourselves. Love leads to love and hurt to hurt. As these results are rarely immediate, most do not see the connection of action and result as so discount the effect. This web of cause and effect is called karma by many. It is the concept that our actions and even our thoughts eventually rebound to us for woe or weal. In this case everything is in its proper proportion the results always fit the action. Yet there are those of a theologically dogmatic view who expect results quite out of proportion to their actions. They look at God meting out eternal heaven or hell because of a few basic choices made in a short existence. Yet as our deeds are finite the ends are likewise finite. It would defy everything we know of God's universe to think that finite causes ever result in infinite results. So for those who expect eternal reward or punishment based on their short sojourn in this life, your beliefs defy everything we know of the way the universe operates.
Cato: Welcome, I'm fairly new here but your post is right on target. It took me years and years away from the denominations and churches just to clear away the doctrines and religions that I had absorbed mentally over the years. I believe universal mind influences our thoughts and therefore everyone has some form of religious belief. Yet if one looks at the teaching of Jesus closely you find Jesus more or less telling the sinful, hardhearted, religious ones that their time was comming. They had created their own destruction. He then tenderly tried to teach the people that what they incubated in their heart and mind and came out their mouths was creating their own destiny. He told them that whatever they sowed or gave out into society they would receive back.Like you said you get what you give. The one thing I might add is even though there is an equal response to a stimuli he was trying to say, if you live this way, in love, giving of yourself, helping others,sharing peace and kindness you will not experience the pains, destructive energies,sicknesses, fears,stresses,frustrations etc. that others might experience. As you are sowing goodness you feel that goodness and live in that same goodness where there is no badness if you will.We will live in and feel the energies we create or allow in our minds if we meditate on them and energize them unto expression. To little room, must go, thanks for posting. Peace to you and blessings, TKQuote (Stu @ July 02 2009,00:22) Cato Punishment in proportion to the crime? That's not god's way!
I think actually your message, which while it matches the anti-Jesus brutality of 'an eye for an eye', is at odds with the homophobia and bigotry required by Saul of Tarsus. Your christianity is far too reasonable and humane for Heavennet. I shouldn't wonder if you deserve a little off-white box for your blasphemy!
Stuart
Well I've been called Gnostic, heretic and wizard, but have not yet recieved the white box brand. Seriously though my point was that God doesn't need to punish or reward, he set up a system of laws. So what we have is cause and effect or a spiritual equivalent of Newtons 3rd law. Call it Karma if you like or in the common vernacular, what goes around come around.Quote (Stu @ July 02 2009,00:22) Cato Punishment in proportion to the crime? That's not god's way!
I think actually your message, which while it matches the anti-Jesus brutality of 'an eye for an eye', is at odds with the homophobia and bigotry required by Saul of Tarsus. Your christianity is far too reasonable and humane for Heavennet. I shouldn't wonder if you deserve a little off-white box for your blasphemy!
Stuart
I suppose I should have a tile too, then.
In fact, I want one. Where do you get them?
I'm only kidding.
Peace out, dudes!
MandyDEATH IS SEPERATION FROM GOD , BUT EVERLASTING LIFE IS LIFE FOREVER WITH GOD.
JESUS PAID IN FULL THE PUNISHMENT FOR SIN, SO WE DO NOT NEED TO BE PNISHED FOR OUR SINS IN THE LIFE AFTER WE PASS FROM THIS WORLD. JESUS DIED SO WE COULD HAVE ALL OUR SINS FORGIVEN.Death I think is a change in your state of being, your physical body stops functioning and your being moves to another level. I believe separation from God is myth and essentially impossible, we can blind ourselves and refuse to see, but he is always there if we choose to look. Jesus lived to teach us a better way and if we could all walk in his footsteps we would have no new sins to forgive. However most of us are not yet that evolved or disciplined for this to happen. We are accountable for our thoughts and actions. Debts must always be paid, there are no free passes in this life or the next. Yet hopefully as we grow and learn as individual spiritual entities our debts will eventually be paid and our wisdom grow to the point where we no longer need take the mantle of flesh and can move on to the next great step in the path the Creator has set up for us.
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